Availability of Apple's 15-inch MacBook Pros constrained ahead of redesigned models

1234568

Comments

  • Reply 141 of 169
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post


    Anyone for a May 1st event?



     


    Seems May 2 would be more likely, given recent history.

  • Reply 142 of 169


    Highly unlikely ,,  if Apple got a new line of product for sure they will announce it and expect people to give a pre order at the least. 

  • Reply 143 of 169
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,309moderator
    dhagan4755 wrote: »
    Anyone for a May 1st event?

    I think there should be no event. They should just take the store offline tomorrow and update the iMacs silently with a slimmer design and no optical drive. Possibly update the MBPs too but I think the MBPs should wait until WWDC in 6 weeks to merge the line.
  • Reply 144 of 169
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Zeusisme View Post

    Highly unlikely ,,  if Apple got a new line of product for sure they will announce it and expect people to give a pre order at the least. 


     


    No, that's not how it works. With computers, they come out the day of announcement. There's zero point in announcing before they're ready and giving pre-orders.


     




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

    I think there should be no event. They should just take the store offline tomorrow and update the iMacs silently with a slimmer design and no optical drive. Possibly update the MBPs too but I think the MBPs should wait until WWDC in 6 weeks to merge the line.


     


    Wait, are those chips out?! I thought just the laptop ones were out. And I agree that there's no way they'd release the new MacBook Pro (equivalents) without an event, given they (should be) getting a redesign. And then they'd need to wait on the MacBook Air because, hey, if they're merging the lines, it's pretty telling otherwise…

  • Reply 145 of 169
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    .... And I agree that there's no way they'd release the new MacBook Pro (equivalents) without an event, given they (should be) getting a redesign. And then they'd need to wait on the MacBook Air because, hey, if they're merging the lines, it's pretty telling otherwise…



     


    For a redesign, Apple would hold an event. However, the new models would be available at the Apple Store on the day of the event.

  • Reply 146 of 169
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post


    For a redesign, Apple would hold an event. However, the new models would be available at the Apple Store on the day of the event.



     


    Or earlier, of course, if they can be. Like the iMac and Mac Mini.

  • Reply 147 of 169
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,309moderator
    Wait, are those chips out?! I thought just the laptop ones were out.

    13 chips have been launched, 9 desktop, 6 mobile:

    desktop:
    3770K, 3.5 GHz
    3770, 3.4 GHz
    3770S, 3.1 GHz
    3770T, 2.5GHz

    plus 5x i5 chips, not sure which ones.

    mobile:
    3920XM, 2.9GHz
    3820QM , 2.7GHz
    3720QM , 2.6GHz
    3615QM , 2.3 GHz
    3612QM , 2.1 GHz
    3610QM , 2.3 GHz

    The shipping date is April 29th but retailers already have the chips so presumably Apple does too and they can launch whenever they like, though they might have a 5-7 day shipping time.

    The 3770K will go in the top iMac. It gets 7.52 in Cinebench vs 6.8 in the old one = 10% increase. Intel's reason for this:

    http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2169587/intel-releases-22nm-ivy-bridge-processors

    "the firm has said compute performance will see minimal gains as it has spent its 'silicon budget' on improving graphics"

    Of course, the initial benchmarks of Ivy Bridge could have been done using the IGP. With a dedicated GPU, the CPU might be able to ramp up higher. No more than 20% though. It should run cooler at least though, which does help when it's positioned behind a very expensive display.

    The funny thing about Intel is that they spend so much resources on the GPUs and still end up in the same ballpark as last year's low-end dedicated GPUs. Eventually it won't matter though. The HD 4000 is the first GPU I would give up a dedicated GPU for. This year's equivalent dedicated GPUs will still be about 50-100% faster though.
  • Reply 148 of 169
    philipmphilipm Posts: 240member


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tipoo View Post





    Getting rid of a 27" monitor and every other part every time you need a CPU or GPU upgrade? No workstation graphics cards or ECC memory? It would work for some, not for everyone. Depends on what you mean by "developer" I guess, for someone tinkering with iOS development of course any modern machine would do, but development can mean much more than that.



    External Thunderbolt workstation graphics cards would certainly reduce some limitations though. It's not fast enough for an external CPU though.




    The problem is the value proposition of the Pro box. Unless you can fill it with lots of parts before it goes obsolete you're paying a lot of money for air. The top of the iMac line (before options) is  just under $2000, with 27" screen, 3.1GHz quad-core Core i5, 4GiB RAM, AMD Radeon HD 6970M with 1GiB, and 1TB drive. The Pro starts $500 more with less RAM and quad core Nehalem, which should be faster than the Core i5. I don't know enough about current graphics chipsets though I assume the Pro starts ahead of the top iMac (it should). But then you need another GB of RAM and a screen before you're ahead on all fronts ($999 for an Apple 17" screen).


     


    You only need a box like this if you need to fill it with a lot of parts.


     


    The real gap in the range is not between the Pro and the iMac, it's between the Pro and the mini. The most expensive mini is 40% of the price of the least expensive Pro.

  • Reply 149 of 169
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Is Apples very conservative guidance a sign that laptops won't come till June. For that matter maybe no new machines till June?
  • Reply 150 of 169
    tailpipetailpipe Posts: 345member


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post



    Is Apples very conservative guidance a sign that laptops won't come till June. For that matter maybe no new machines till June?


     


    I hope not. Everyone has been eagerly anticipating new Mac laptops for some time.


     


    I would have bought a Sandy Bridge 13" MacBook Air in a heartbeat last year when it was launched - if it had come with a 1 GB or even a 500 GB SSD drive. But 256 GB simply wasn't enough. So I decided to wait for new MacBook Pros, especially when I heard they were coming with thinner Air-type enclosures. I thought they'd arrive in March. That slipped to April. Now it looks like June. 


     


    I am now thinking that the time to upgrade will be after Mountain Lion gets launched. i guess the longer Apple waits, the more likely it will be that Apple launches new machines with retina-type displays. That would be worth waiting for. 


     


    New 13" or 15" MBP. I can't decide.   

  • Reply 151 of 169
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    tailpipe wrote: »
    <p>  </p><div class="quote-container"> <span>Quote:</span> <div class="quote-block"> Originally Posted by <strong>wizard69</strong> <a href="/t/148698/availability-of-apples-15-inch-macbook-pros-constrained-ahead-of-redesigned-models/120#post_2100631"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" /></a><br /> <br /> Is Apples very conservative guidance a sign that laptops won't come till June. For that matter maybe no new machines till June?</div></div><p>  </p><p> I hope not. Everyone has been eagerly anticipating new Mac laptops for some time.</p>
    That is true but that is also because of the Ivy Bridge hype. For Apple Ivy Bridge may not even be a key element of the new machines. Contrary to the opinion of many Apple isn't tied to Intels release schedule. In this case it just seems like Apples guidance amounts to saying: no significant hardware releases this quarter.
    <p>  </p><p> I would have bought a Sandy Bridge 13" MacBook Air in a heartbeat last year when it was launched - if it had come with a 1 GB or even a 500 GB SSD drive. But 256 GB simply wasn't enough.
    That SSD problem has kept many off the AIR platform.
    So I decided to wait for new MacBook Pros, especially when I heard they were coming with thinner Air-type enclosures. I thought they'd arrive in March. That slipped to April. Now it looks like June. </p>
    Well I'm not sure what the hold up is now. It looks like they only have chips suitable for the 15" & 17" MBPs maybe that isn't good enough for a launch. Knowing Intel it could also be driver issues.
    <p>  </p><p> I am now thinking that the time to upgrade will be after Mountain Lion gets launched.
    You might be talking October then! By that time we might see an October / November refresh of the laptops.
    i guess the longer Apple waits, the more likely it will be that Apple launches new machines with retina-type displays. That would be worth waiting for. </p>
    This seems like a likely explanation for a wait on new MBPs. The more time that passes without a release the more you have to wonder about what Apple is waiting on. Retina seems like a real possible cause for a drawn out delay.
    <p>  </p><p> New 13" or 15" MBP. I can't decide.   </p>

    As old as it is I really like my 15" MBP. However now that I'm a heavy iPad user I'm not sure that another portable is even in the cards. The fact is on the desktop a larger screen makes more sense and desktop machines are far more serviceable. My problem of course is getting Apple to make the right desktop platform. It might come down to another laptop being the best possible solution, in that case I'd go with a 15" or larger machine.

  • Reply 152 of 169
    rbrrbr Posts: 631member


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post






    Quote:


     


    I would have bought a Sandy Bridge 13" MacBook Air in a heartbeat last year when it was launched - if it had come with a 1 GB or even a 500 GB SSD drive. But 256 GB simply wasn't enough.



    That SSD problem has kept many off the AIR platform.


     


    Interestingly, Intel are reported to be pressing the hard drive manufacturers to come up with an ultra-thin hybrid for use in new thin PC laptops intended to compete with the MBA. It supposedly will have much of the performance of a SSD, but with a larger storage capacity than is typical of the MBA and at a price which will allow the new PC laptops to have a competitive price point.


     


    Apple just might benefit from these as well.


     


    Cheers

  • Reply 153 of 169
    winterwinter Posts: 1,238member


    I don't push my 2011 Mini though how much cooler would Ivy Bridge run? The 2011 Mini hovers around 40 C or so for me.

  • Reply 154 of 169
    not1lostnot1lost Posts: 136member


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by not1lost View Post





    Thanks for all this great food for thought! I've got a lot more to consider now. I suppose it seems it is possible but then I dont know how many problems I may run into with the Workload / workflow and if it would all be worth the effort at this time... I have a lot of research and studying to do on this. Thanks again for all the help and resources!


     


    Nope! I've done a lot of research and thinking... and these AIO's and inclosed small units are just not for me. I should have stuck with my first thoughts when I started search on this forum. I know deep down what I would be happy with and what I would not, everyone is wired differently and has different needs and atittudes about things. Not to dis anyone elses ideas which are good for them but these machines are not for me. I would never be happy with one no matter how it performed. Peace :-)


     


    PS. Smiley's not working for me... only the laughing one since the upgrade ? may be all the firewalls and tracking blockers I have running. It's blocking 6 on this page right now through Abine

  • Reply 155 of 169
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    The big surprise here is that your Mini might not run that much cooler.
    winter wrote: »
    <p> I don't push my 2011 Mini though how much cooler would Ivy Bridge run? The 2011 Mini hovers around 40 C or so for me.</p>
  • Reply 156 of 169
    winterwinter Posts: 1,238member


    So maybe wait until Haswell or Broadwell to see a significant drop? (not that I will though I'm curious on an opinion)

  • Reply 157 of 169
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,309moderator
    wizard69 wrote: »
    The big surprise here is that your Mini might not run that much cooler.

    Yeah, it's good they are focusing on graphics though and at least bringing the IGP up to last year's dedicated GPUs. Couple it with the fact that SSD is now $1/GB and it makes for a very fast, affordable machine:

    http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-2-5-Inch-Solid-State-CT256M4SSD2/dp/B004W2JL2A/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1335559934&sr=8-3

    Apple tends to charge more for SSD but they could overhaul the whole lineup with SSD at $1/GB, even if they used 128GB boot drives on top of 320-512GB storage drives.

    The desktop models will get the power drop and run cooler so machines like the iMac won't damage hard drives and displays with excess heat. The over-clocked chips perform very well:

    http://www.techspot.com/review/523-ivy-bridge-intel-core-i7-3770k/page9.html

    The 3770k that will go in the iMac breaks 10 in Cinebench at 4.9GHz. That's impressive for a quad-core, considering the 12-core Mac Pro gets 15. Hook up 2 over-clocked PCs to an iMac and it will outperform the render performance of a 12-core E5-2690.

    The 15" MBP chips seem to be up to 30% faster in CPU performance:

    http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Intel-Core-i73720QM-Ivy-Bridge-Mobile-Processor-Review-/?page=6

    and the graphics performance is close to the 6630M in the Mini and 6490M in the old 15". This is fine for the 13" models but the 15" models should keep the dedicated GPUs and going by the drivers in Mountain Lion, it points to the Radeon 7000 series, which were released this week:

    http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/amd_launches_energy-efficient_radeon_7000m_mobile_gpu_series

    The 7770M would go into the entry 15". The 6770M gets 30fps on high in Skyrim:

    http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-6770M.43955.0.html

    so 36.9fps would be a minor speedup but still decent. The 7970M should go into the iMac and gets 70fps vs 40fps for the 6970M. I think the incoming updates will be good for the whole lineup - hopefully they'll put a 7730M in the Mini with a bit more VRAM this time (e.g 512MB).
  • Reply 158 of 169
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    I think you mis the point. The Mini will continue to use the same power class of processors into the future, any power savings due to the process shrinks just gets rolled into more performance. Apple might have a slightly lower power entry model but I would expect the processors in the future to be in the 35 to 45 watt class.
    winter wrote: »
    <p> So maybe wait until Haswell or Broadwell to see a significant drop? (not that I will though I'm curious on an opinion)</p>

    Well that is my opinion, some are actually disappointed with Ivy Bridge as in some cases it appears to use more power than Sandy Bridge. Most of that power appears to go to the GPU. At least you are getting better than normal performance increases from the GPU.

    As to waiting, well I will be spending the entire year resisting the desire to get a new Mac. That won't be easy at all.
  • Reply 159 of 169
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    Yeah, it's good they are focusing on graphics though and at least bringing the IGP up to last year's dedicated GPUs. Couple it with the fact that SSD is now $1/GB and it makes for a very fast, affordable machine:

    http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-2-5-Inch-Solid-State-CT256M4SSD2/dp/B004W2JL2A/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1335559934&sr=8-3

    Apple tends to charge more for SSD but they could overhaul the whole lineup with SSD at $1/GB, even if they used 128GB boot drives on top of 320-512GB storage drives.

    The desktop models will get the power drop and run cooler so machines like the iMac won't damage hard drives and displays with excess heat. The over-clocked chips perform very well:

    http://www.techspot.com/review/523-ivy-bridge-intel-core-i7-3770k/page9.html

    The 3770k that will go in the iMac breaks 10 in Cinebench at 4.9GHz. That's impressive for a quad-core, considering the 12-core Mac Pro gets 15. Hook up 2 over-clocked PCs to an iMac and it will outperform the render performance of a 12-core E5-2690.

    The 15" MBP chips seem to be up to 30% faster in CPU performance:

    http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Intel-Core-i73720QM-Ivy-Bridge-Mobile-Processor-Review-/?page=6

    and the graphics performance is close to the 6630M in the Mini and 6490M in the old 15". This is fine for the 13" models but the 15" models should keep the dedicated GPUs and going by the drivers in Mountain Lion, it points to the Radeon 7000 series, which were released this week:

    http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/amd_launches_energy-efficient_radeon_7000m_mobile_gpu_series

    The 7770M would go into the entry 15". The 6770M gets 30fps on high in Skyrim:

    http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-6770M.43955.0.html

    so 36.9fps would be a minor speedup but still decent. The 7970M should go into the iMac and gets 70fps vs 40fps for the 6970M. I think the incoming updates will be good for the whole lineup - hopefully they'll put a 7730M in the Mini with a bit more VRAM this time (e.g 512MB).


     


    The mini would do well with 1GB of vram given that 1GB is becoming the standard for things like Creative Suite. This could make it a much more competitive machine. Regarding the 3770k, that's nothing new. People did this with the W3670 or 3680 to match the 12 core too. This was possible in 2010. It will not turbo boost to 4.9Ghz in the imac, and on a Mac you won't have any over-clocking options. The mobile cpus look quite good, but I'll see how they perform in a mac laptop. We'll probably see a lot of idiots whining that Apple couldn't go to a thinner design due to heat concerns or something like that. One of the bloggers will fabricate such a story if the design remains similar. Anyway I'm due for a new machine this year, but it's actually tough to determine my needs this time around. I'd actually gain quite a lot from CUDA, but that's not an easy option on a Mac.

  • Reply 160 of 169


     


     


     


    Quote:


    The 7970M should go into the iMac and gets 70fps vs 40fps for the 6970M. I think the incoming updates will be good for the whole lineup - hopefully they'll put a 7730M in the Mini with a bit more VRAM this time (e.g 512MB).


     



     


    I think that's a belter of a GPU for the next iMac.  Just a shame we don't have 'Haswell' cpu to go alongside it.


     


    Still, having less heat from cpu etc to prevent eg HD damage is still a good thing.


     


    Lemon Bon Bon.

Sign In or Register to comment.