It is awfully quiet here...where are the dozens of posters that said the iPhone 7 abandoning analog audio out was the stupidest decision ever?
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm still here. Maybe I don't count, though, because I don't think I ever said it was the stupidest decision ever. I said *I* don't like the decision because I didn't get enough back in the trade to make it worth giving up the benefits and convenience it offered.
The fact that another manufacturer is shouting "ME TOO!" does nothing to make me feel better about Apple's choice. Especially since I'm likely to want another iPhone at some point, whereas I'm not as likely to buy an HTC so am less concerned about what they do.
Perhaps you can explain how you perceive HTC's actions as a vindication of Apple's decision? Or were you just trying to stir up shit, and I bit?
Apple removes the headphone jack, and the media and entire Internet is on fire. People compare it to the apocalypse, and eventual doom and gloom of Apple. The media fortune-tellers describe Apple's eventual demise.
HTC does it... and the reaction is like a fart in the wind.
Three possible reasons for that:
1. The topic has already been beaten to death, so it's not news anymore. The points of the debate haven't changed, only the company involved. No one is interested in repeating the same old discussion again.
2. It's HTC, not Apple. Apple has a reputation as a market leader, HTC doesn't. If it had been Samsung making this announcement rather than HTC there might be more noise.
3. It's a very recent story. Pundits haven't had much time to generate responses.
I wonder if HTC will see the same whining Apple did? Its only a matter of time before most if not all of the popular smartphones follow Apple's lead with this.
It is not in Apple hands, but in hands of headphone manufactirers. So far Apple earphones earpads are fashionable crap with no sound quality... welll at least comparable to high end headphones some of us use.
Also explain to me why I would need to run and charge ther parts of equipment while I could do only one? WHo is going to replace batteries in headphones and why one would need that service?
We are not there with technology yet. Smarter and long lived energy storage solutions need to be developed.
The arguments about wires being a thing of the past would hold more water if Apple itself hadn't included the jack on its latest two new macs. The argument about waterproofing would hold more water (excuse the pun) if Samsung didn't have a water resistant phone with a headphone jack. The argument about sales not being impacted would hold more water if sales of the iPhone 7 had been officially reported. The argument that you're correct because of the deafening silence on this board would hold more water if it weren't the middle of a work day.
It's interesting to see the level of smugness based on the actions of an unprofitable, also-ran Android phone manufacturer.
For my part, BT is laggy as hell and I don't want another device to keep charged. I think it was eliminated solely to fit the taptic engine; which, if given a choice, I would not have picked over the convenience of the jack.
It will be interesting to see Apple's level of commitment to this when the next iPod arrives.
- It doesn't matter that Samsung phones had water seals (which failed anyway), theyre entirely different products, shells, and constraints. example: theres no taptic engine in the Samsung phones.
- similarly, Macs have entirely different use cases and spacial constraints, so they needn't adopt the phone's tighter constraints. They have room to offer both options.
- it's now late in the day, still few comments, and none from the very vocal critics on this
- iPhone 7 sales are phenomenal, as usual.
- taptic engine existed in the 6s, w/ headphone jack.
- apple VP of engineering said very specifically removing the jack gave them room for 1) better cameras and sensors, 2) larger battery, 3) water seals. end of story.
The arguments about wires being a thing of the past would hold more water if Apple itself hadn't included the jack on its latest two new macs.
Depends what you mean by that.
If you're saying that the existence of a headphone jack on the Mac is proof that one could/should have been included on the iPhone, I disagree. They're different machines designed for different tasks, and the arguments in defence of keeping it on the Mac don't necessarily apply to the iPhone. The Mac doesn't have to be made small enough to fit in a pocket, for example.
If, on the other hand you're saying that the argument that the headphone jack was removed because "wires are so ten minutes ago" is bullshit, then I agree. One can argue that there are valid reasons for removing the iPhone's headphone jack, but if the premise is that there's just no need for wires anymore, then you're right, leaving a wired connection on the "pro" machine is a self-contradiction.
Either way, I'm glad my MacBook Pro still has a headphone jack. I use it every single day to connect to the mixing console, an application for which there is no viable wireless alternative.
For my part, BT is laggy as hell and I don't want another device to keep charged.
These particular issues are actually very well mitigated by the W1-equipped products. Audible user feedback is still slow -- when I type there's significant lag between pressing the key and hearing the click -- but there doesn't seem to be any problem with sound-to-picture sync when watching videos.
Battery life is also long enough with the Beats Solo3 to overcome my complaints about charging. I've only had them less than a week, but it doesn't look like they're going to need charging very often. With my use of a couple hours a day I haven't yet burned through half the charge they had out of the box. It's still a minor nuisance, and will obviously be worse with smaller devices like the AirPods, but it should be noted that this is not your father's Bluetooth. Depending on the device you choose, charging may not be as much of an issue as you expect.
I haven't upgraded to the 7 because of the jack. I'm pissed they removed it for a profit grab. look at the tear down - in it's place is not a bigger battery as everyone claims - it's the large Taptic Engine for the click-less home button. As an engineer - it would be fairly easy to make a combo headphone jack and Taptic Engine if it was a priority. Not to mention the large barometric vent added. It is clear Apple just wanted to force us to buy beats headphones and expensive air pods that have to be charged. I use headphones seldom enough that they would always be out of battery - I do not want wireless headphones, and I want to plug it into all my existing speakers/audio systems.
This is profits profits profits 100% by a CEO who is a bean counter and saw a ton more beans to fleece from us - just because other companies are copying (what else is new) says nothing on the original decision.
Life will go on - but I don't have to jump on the fanboy wagon and say it was a good decision - it was a naked profit grab and yet another "shaft the customer" move by the apple lately.
I haven't upgraded to the 7 because of the jack. I'm pissed they removed it for a profit grab. look at the tear down - in it's place is not a bigger battery as everyone claims - it's the large Taptic Engine for the click-less home button. As an engineer - it would be fairly easy to make a combo headphone jack and Taptic Engine if it was a priority. Not to mention the large barometric vent added. It is clear Apple just wanted to force us to buy beats headphones and expensive air pods that have to be charged. I use headphones seldom enough that they would always be out of battery - I do not want wireless headphones, and I want to plug it into all my existing speakers/audio systems.
This is profits profits profits 100% by a CEO who is a bean counter and saw a ton more beans to fleece from us - just because other companies are copying (what else is new) says nothing on the original decision.
Life will go on - but I don't have to jump on the fanboy wagon and say it was a good decision - it was a naked profit grab and yet another "shaft the customer" move by the apple lately.
You're absolutely wrong on every engineering point.
Adding a second speaker. This is seldom discussed but Phil S. cited this as another benefit from the increased space. Stereo sound has been fantastic improvement.
I dunno, that particular "enhancement" didn't really do anything for me. The whole point of stereo is to provide separation between sources roughly equivalent to the distance from source to ear. With the speakers only a few inches apart they had to resort to the same kind of phasing tricks they use on the laptops to make it seem like the speakers are further apart than they really are, and to my ear the negative effects of that outweigh the benefits. Not to mention the two channels each using a different kind of speaker. And the fact that we're talking about providing two channels of really bad sound instead of just one.
I'm not saying it's a bad thing -- it's not -- just that weighed against the convenience of a headphone jack it's not much of a payoff.
Wireless headphones now are about 75% of industry sales by revenue and exploding in growth.
Okay, so what does that mean in the real world?
The average selling price of a wireless headphone product is, what, ten times as much as wired? That means if wireless were selling in meaningful number compared to wired, the revenue share should be >90%. The revenue figure, all by itself, tells us that the VAST majority of users still aren't buying wireless headphones.
It also ignores the fact that most people don't buy headphones at all. They use whatever comes with the source device. That makes the wired side of the sales figures lower since users don't have to buy anything, making the relative share of revenue even less telling of actual adoption numbers.
Note that I'm not disputing the value or merit of wireless alternatives, but using the revenue number as an argument that wireless represents a significant portion of the market, and thus obviates the need for a headphone jack, is wrong.
Stop the presses and run some of the following headlines: HTC is doomed following blatant oversight. You won't believe what HTC has removed from their new phone. Major fail by tech company. Customers up in arms and deserting HTC in droves. HTC shares to plummet.
But more likely the press will run something like "HTC embraces brace new world of digital audio. HTC leads the way into digital future. iPhone killer advances Audi technology. Analogue audio dead, long live HTC.
Apple removes the headphone jack, and the media and entire Internet is on fire. People compare it to the apocalypse, and eventual doom and gloom of Apple. The media fortune-tellers describe Apple's eventual demise.
HTC does it... and the reaction is like a fart in the wind.
Three possible reasons for that:
1. The topic has already been beaten to death, so it's not news anymore. The points of the debate haven't changed, only the company involved. No one is interested in repeating the same old discussion again.
2. It's HTC, not Apple. Apple has a reputation as a market leader, HTC doesn't. If it had been Samsung making this announcement rather than HTC there might be more noise.
3. It's a very recent story. Pundits haven't had much time to generate responses.
4. It wasn't a mistake after all, and the market is validating this, and now the complainers realize it and have shut up, only to whine about something else at a future point. Must...hate...apple.
I haven't upgraded to the 7 because of the jack. I'm pissed they removed it for a profit grab. look at the tear down - in it's place is not a bigger battery as everyone claims - it's the large Taptic Engine for the click-less home button. As an engineer - it would be fairly easy to make a combo headphone jack and Taptic Engine if it was a priority. Not to mention the large barometric vent added. It is clear Apple just wanted to force us to buy beats headphones and expensive air pods that have to be charged. I use headphones seldom enough that they would always be out of battery - I do not want wireless headphones, and I want to plug it into all my existing speakers/audio systems.
This is profits profits profits 100% by a CEO who is a bean counter and saw a ton more beans to fleece from us - just because other companies are copying (what else is new) says nothing on the original decision.
Life will go on - but I don't have to jump on the fanboy wagon and say it was a good decision - it was a naked profit grab and yet another "shaft the customer" move by the apple lately.
Oh dear lord.
- how can it possibly be a "profit grab" when 1) BT is an open standard 2) it comes w/ a free adapter to use your own wired. nuts.
- the VP of engineering said specifically and clearly that they gained the ability to add better optics, battery, and water seals. You're saying he's lying? Read it and weep:
- By no means does anyone (but you I guess) think he meant they had to put that in the *same space* previously occupied by the jack. No, they moved things around.
- profits this, bean counter that, fleecing the public, yada yada -- all troll trope nonsense. As if people aren't free to go elsewhere were that all true. bullocks.
4. It wasn't a mistake after all, and the market is validating this, and now the complainers realize it.
Even as one who would prefer Apple include headphone jacks on iPhones, I do not consider Apple's decision a "mistake." They did their research (presumably) and concluded that the outcome would be a net win. They knew they'd lose some users from the militantly-opposed camp, but also knew that most people either wouldn't care or would get used to it, and that it would create opportunities in other areas, like wireless headphones.
That another manufacturer followed suit doesn't even necessarily mean that they have the same motives as Apple, either. Maybe it's just easier and more profitable to exclude the jack, and Apple doing it gave others "permission" (or an excuse) to follow suit, even if their reasons for doing it are different (like maybe even NOT including anything else and thus being able to produce a phone that's "Even thinner than an iPhone!").
Ultimately, none of this means that there was nothing lost to the change, or that no one suffered any ill consequences -- whether in terms of actual utility or just convenience -- or that the absence of continued objection "vindicates" the decision as having somehow been best for everyone. In my case, while I'd still prefer to have a headphone jack, it's pretty obvious that the die is cast and workarounds are required. Continuing to complain about it won't accomplish anything.
That's not the same as charging my mind and deciding that the removal of the headphone jack was good for me.
HTC One 10 usually gets good marks for their sound, but they're not advertising a 24bit DAC in this model and they aren't implementing BlueTooth 5.0 so this looks like a run of the mill mid range phone. It has quick charge - hope Apple adds that this year to the lightning port/connector.
Does anyone know if Apple has a 24Bit DAC? Its sound quality is extremely good if not the loudest. Apple has really advance display technologies, hoping the audio side is ramped up similarly.
Profit grab, for a 2 cent part. Yeah, I bet they are laughing all the way to the bank. Jeez, does your Mom know you are on the internet?
Read my post - the profit grab is essentially forcing us to buy/use apple headphones (yes you can use others with dongle, but who is going to deal with that hassle on a regular basis),(yes you can use other bluetooth wireless headphones, but again, most will go for the apple solution).
I haven't upgraded to the 7 because of the jack. I'm pissed they removed it for a profit grab. look at the tear down - in it's place is not a bigger battery as everyone claims - it's the large Taptic Engine for the click-less home button. As an engineer - it would be fairly easy to make a combo headphone jack and Taptic Engine if it was a priority. Not to mention the large barometric vent added. It is clear Apple just wanted to force us to buy beats headphones and expensive air pods that have to be charged. I use headphones seldom enough that they would always be out of battery - I do not want wireless headphones, and I want to plug it into all my existing speakers/audio systems.
This is profits profits profits 100% by a CEO who is a bean counter and saw a ton more beans to fleece from us - just because other companies are copying (what else is new) says nothing on the original decision.
Life will go on - but I don't have to jump on the fanboy wagon and say it was a good decision - it was a naked profit grab and yet another "shaft the customer" move by the apple lately.
Oh dear lord.
- the VP of engineering said specifically and clearly that they gained the ability to add better optics, battery, and water seals. You're saying he's lying? Read it and weep:
The VP of engineering would say if you removed the battery, lighting port, vol switches, home button etc etc that " they gained the ability to add better optics, battery, and water seals" - duh that is a non argument and applies to most of the components in the phone.
Why is a die hard apple user a troll if I think it was a poor decision and have valid reasons and concerns for apple doing so? Do you really believe the "courage" bit?
This is a big difference then going from USB 2.0 to 3.1 connectors for example which are open and all companies are going to make. This is taking away a 50 year open standard and replacing it with a proprietary apple lightning port that invalidates almost all of the headphones out there . (the dongles exist but it is not the port and most won't want to deal with them - and everyone knows it is a stop gap to prevent a huge outcry). I think the apple faithful are blind what a great injustice was done with this decision, and with everything apple does (despite the false rhetoric to the contrary), it ultimately comes down to $ - companies exist to make $ and apple expects to continue it huge margins at any cost.
I haven't upgraded to the 7 because of the jack. I'm pissed they removed it for a profit grab. look at the tear down - in it's place is not a bigger battery as everyone claims - it's the large Taptic Engine for the click-less home button. As an engineer - it would be fairly easy to make a combo headphone jack and Taptic Engine if it was a priority. Not to mention the large barometric vent added. It is clear Apple just wanted to force us to buy beats headphones and expensive air pods that have to be charged. I use headphones seldom enough that they would always be out of battery - I do not want wireless headphones, and I want to plug it into all my existing speakers/audio systems.
This is profits profits profits 100% by a CEO who is a bean counter and saw a ton more beans to fleece from us - just because other companies are copying (what else is new) says nothing on the original decision.
Life will go on - but I don't have to jump on the fanboy wagon and say it was a good decision - it was a naked profit grab and yet another "shaft the customer" move by the apple lately.
Oh dear lord.
- the VP of engineering said specifically and clearly that they gained the ability to add better optics, battery, and water seals. You're saying he's lying? Read it and weep:
The VP of engineering would say if you removed the battery, lighting port, vol switches, home button etc etc that " they gained the ability to add better optics, battery, and water seals" - duh that is a non argument and applies to most of the components in the phone.
Why is a die hard apple user a troll if I think it was a poor decision and have valid reasons and concerns for apple doing so? Do you really believe the "courage" bit?
This is a big difference then going from USB 2.0 to 3.1 connectors for example which are open and all companies are going to make. This is taking away a 50 year open standard and replacing it with a proprietary apple lightning port that invalidates almost all of the headphones out there . (the dongles exist but it is not the port and most won't want to deal with them - and everyone knows it is a stop gap to prevent a huge outcry). I think the apple faithful are blind what a great injustice was done with this decision, and with everything apple does (despite the false rhetoric to the contrary), it ultimately comes down to $ - companies exist to make $ and apple expects to continue it huge margins at any cost.
What makes you a die hard Apple user if you complain about everything Apple does?
Comments
The fact that another manufacturer is shouting "ME TOO!" does nothing to make me feel better about Apple's choice. Especially since I'm likely to want another iPhone at some point, whereas I'm not as likely to buy an HTC so am less concerned about what they do.
Perhaps you can explain how you perceive HTC's actions as a vindication of Apple's decision? Or were you just trying to stir up shit, and I bit?
Three possible reasons for that:
1. The topic has already been beaten to death, so it's not news anymore. The points of the debate haven't changed, only the company involved. No one is interested in repeating the same old discussion again.
2. It's HTC, not Apple. Apple has a reputation as a market leader, HTC doesn't. If it had been Samsung making this announcement rather than HTC there might be more noise.
3. It's a very recent story. Pundits haven't had much time to generate responses.
I think it's mostly #1.
- similarly, Macs have entirely different use cases and spacial constraints, so they needn't adopt the phone's tighter constraints. They have room to offer both options.
- it's now late in the day, still few comments, and none from the very vocal critics on this
- iPhone 7 sales are phenomenal, as usual.
- taptic engine existed in the 6s, w/ headphone jack.
- apple VP of engineering said very specifically removing the jack gave them room for 1) better cameras and sensors, 2) larger battery, 3) water seals. end of story.
If you're saying that the existence of a headphone jack on the Mac is proof that one could/should have been included on the iPhone, I disagree. They're different machines designed for different tasks, and the arguments in defence of keeping it on the Mac don't necessarily apply to the iPhone. The Mac doesn't have to be made small enough to fit in a pocket, for example.
If, on the other hand you're saying that the argument that the headphone jack was removed because "wires are so ten minutes ago" is bullshit, then I agree. One can argue that there are valid reasons for removing the iPhone's headphone jack, but if the premise is that there's just no need for wires anymore, then you're right, leaving a wired connection on the "pro" machine is a self-contradiction.
Either way, I'm glad my MacBook Pro still has a headphone jack. I use it every single day to connect to the mixing console, an application for which there is no viable wireless alternative.
I wish the iPhone still had one.
These particular issues are actually very well mitigated by the W1-equipped products. Audible user feedback is still slow -- when I type there's significant lag between pressing the key and hearing the click -- but there doesn't seem to be any problem with sound-to-picture sync when watching videos.
Battery life is also long enough with the Beats Solo3 to overcome my complaints about charging. I've only had them less than a week, but it doesn't look like they're going to need charging very often. With my use of a couple hours a day I haven't yet burned through half the charge they had out of the box. It's still a minor nuisance, and will obviously be worse with smaller devices like the AirPods, but it should be noted that this is not your father's Bluetooth. Depending on the device you choose, charging may not be as much of an issue as you expect.
This is profits profits profits 100% by a CEO who is a bean counter and saw a ton more beans to fleece from us - just because other companies are copying (what else is new) says nothing on the original decision.
Life will go on - but I don't have to jump on the fanboy wagon and say it was a good decision - it was a naked profit grab and yet another "shaft the customer" move by the apple lately.
I dunno, that particular "enhancement" didn't really do anything for me. The whole point of stereo is to provide separation between sources roughly equivalent to the distance from source to ear. With the speakers only a few inches apart they had to resort to the same kind of phasing tricks they use on the laptops to make it seem like the speakers are further apart than they really are, and to my ear the negative effects of that outweigh the benefits. Not to mention the two channels each using a different kind of speaker. And the fact that we're talking about providing two channels of really bad sound instead of just one.
I'm not saying it's a bad thing -- it's not -- just that weighed against the convenience of a headphone jack it's not much of a payoff.
Okay, so what does that mean in the real world?
The average selling price of a wireless headphone product is, what, ten times as much as wired? That means if wireless were selling in meaningful number compared to wired, the revenue share should be >90%. The revenue figure, all by itself, tells us that the VAST majority of users still aren't buying wireless headphones.
It also ignores the fact that most people don't buy headphones at all. They use whatever comes with the source device. That makes the wired side of the sales figures lower since users don't have to buy anything, making the relative share of revenue even less telling of actual adoption numbers.
Note that I'm not disputing the value or merit of wireless alternatives, but using the revenue number as an argument that wireless represents a significant portion of the market, and thus obviates the need for a headphone jack, is wrong.
It implies that Apple was first to remove the jack and others followed.
Actually, Motorola was first to remove the jack and Apple and others have followed that lead.
But more likely the press will run something like "HTC embraces brace new world of digital audio. HTC leads the way into digital future. iPhone killer advances Audi technology. Analogue audio dead, long live HTC.
Oh dear lord.
- how can it possibly be a "profit grab" when 1) BT is an open standard 2) it comes w/ a free adapter to use your own wired. nuts.
- the VP of engineering said specifically and clearly that they gained the ability to add better optics, battery, and water seals. You're saying he's lying? Read it and weep:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/johnpaczkowski/inside-iphone-7-why-apple-killed-the-headphone-jack?utm_term=.nrnBxeXW0#.ofReQr9Oa
- By no means does anyone (but you I guess) think he meant they had to put that in the *same space* previously occupied by the jack. No, they moved things around.
- profits this, bean counter that, fleecing the public, yada yada -- all troll trope nonsense. As if people aren't free to go elsewhere were that all true. bullocks.
Troll harder.
That another manufacturer followed suit doesn't even necessarily mean that they have the same motives as Apple, either. Maybe it's just easier and more profitable to exclude the jack, and Apple doing it gave others "permission" (or an excuse) to follow suit, even if their reasons for doing it are different (like maybe even NOT including anything else and thus being able to produce a phone that's "Even thinner than an iPhone!").
Ultimately, none of this means that there was nothing lost to the change, or that no one suffered any ill consequences -- whether in terms of actual utility or just convenience -- or that the absence of continued objection "vindicates" the decision as having somehow been best for everyone. In my case, while I'd still prefer to have a headphone jack, it's pretty obvious that the die is cast and workarounds are required. Continuing to complain about it won't accomplish anything.
That's not the same as charging my mind and deciding that the removal of the headphone jack was good for me.
they aren't implementing BlueTooth 5.0 so this looks like a run of the mill mid range phone.
It has quick charge - hope Apple adds that this year to the lightning port/connector.
Does anyone know if Apple has a 24Bit DAC? Its sound quality is extremely good if not the loudest.
Apple has really advance display technologies, hoping the audio side is ramped up similarly.
Jeez, does your Mom know you are on the internet?
Why is a die hard apple user a troll if I think it was a poor decision and have valid reasons and concerns for apple doing so? Do you really believe the "courage" bit?
This is a big difference then going from USB 2.0 to 3.1 connectors for example which are open and all companies are going to make. This is taking away a 50 year open standard and replacing it with a proprietary apple lightning port that invalidates almost all of the headphones out there . (the dongles exist but it is not the port and most won't want to deal with them - and everyone knows it is a stop gap to prevent a huge outcry). I think the apple faithful are blind what a great injustice was done with this decision, and with everything apple does (despite the false rhetoric to the contrary), it ultimately comes down to $ - companies exist to make $ and apple expects to continue it huge margins at any cost.