What history teaches about Apple's windows of opportunity for 2017

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  • Reply 81 of 130
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,834member
    avon b7 said:
    copeland said:

    On the one hand Apple stands as the lighthouse for green energy in data center usage and on the other hand they force customers to trash their computers because they cannot be updated and thus have many more years of useful life in them (creating a horrible carbon footprint; unfortunately these effects are never calculated).

    Total Bullshat. I just took my mother's Macbook from 2009, tossed in an SSD and some RAM and installed Sierra on it. Nearly 8 year old computer. 
    I'm sure he's referring to the more recent models that can't be upgraded.
    And yet these non-upgradable notebooks already have the common upgrade -- SSD and a ton of RAM.  Just as with the iPhone and iPad, the appliance-computing model says "Get the size you think you'll need, and use it for years and years". That's why I'm still on a maxed out 2011 iMac for my desktop. With SSD and 20 GB ram (I didn't even max that out), it still works very well. Six years later.
    edited January 2017 ai46watto_cobra
  • Reply 82 of 130
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member

    gatorguy said:

    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    Sorry, there is simply no excuse for Apple not updating core products like the MacPro and Mac Mini.  They are leaving money on the table.  They are not innovating.  The PC is not dead.  The Microsoft Surface Pro is more compelling than any iMac in the last three years.  Come on Apple, you are leaving your customers high and dry.
     Nonsense. The hardware innovation in the latest iphones, ipads, macbooks and airpods is astounding. They don't improve themselves. 

    But MS makes yet another surface, this one for the the ultra niche of illustrators, and you're impressed? Show me the sales numbers, which prove people are actually buying them (which they will if they truly add value). 
    A lot of Pet Rocks were sold too, but it doesn't prove people found they added value afterwards.

    As for sharing sales numbers it looks to me like most techs prefer to avoid specifics and avoid mentioning how much of a particular product sold for the most part. Numbers end up coming from educated guesses via analysts and market studies instead of the manufacturer. 
    I have on more that one occasion noted that Apple will likely generate more revenue from AirPods, I've stated $3 B in calendar year 2017, than MS will from Surface products. I might be a bit off on that, but it provides a comparative context.
    You might know the answer to this: Why is there that straw hanging that looks like it's missing wires on the AirPods? I'm assuming that it's a necessary piece because otherwise it's not very attractive being there. Do you know its function?
    I don't know what you mean by unattractive straw. Are you referring to the stems? If so, there's really nothing unattractive about it.
    IMO it's not an attractive piece but understandable if it's necessary for functionality.


    I see a guy with two wireless BT devices in his ears. Ones that look much, much better than all the Ohura things people have been wearing for almost 20 years now.
    Without the straws you wouldn't see them at all. But yes, thanks to your explanation I understand that they are currently necessary for Apple's design, even as long as they are. Within a generation or two I expect those straws will disappear. 

    Another observation: They look nearly identical to the ZTE Axon Lux earbuds too (good copies of Apple's previous wired earbuds), if they had wires connected to the straws.. Lot'sa imitation game going on.
    edited January 2017
  • Reply 83 of 130
    yojimbo007yojimbo007 Posts: 1,165member
    Well the Author seens to want to put a positive spin on everything Apple.

    To me it come's across as fanboyish. Not objective.. 

    There are some bad and shortsighted decisions made at Apple recently..........looking the other way wont help address this issue . It Will only make it worse. 
  • Reply 84 of 130
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    There are some bad and shortsighted decisions made at Apple recently..........looking the other way wont help address this issue . It Will only make it worse. 
    There are bad and shortsighted decisions made at Apple every single day that the company has existed so why limit your dismissal of Apple's potential future to just some recent decisions while ignoring their history of good and bad decisions that have made them the company they are today?
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 85 of 130
    normmnormm Posts: 653member
    arlor said:
    As somebody who's interested in the products, not the financials, and actually owns an old Mac Pro, I'm still allowed to want an up to date Mac Pro, right? Or should I just shut up about it, because I should care more about Apple's profitability?
    Either way, monster of an article!

    But yes, even though Peter Thiel and Wired are sensationalists who are not as intelligent or prescient as El Steve, it is looking like Apple's best days are behind it.

    And all you really have to do is read the first part of the article. -Backwards-rationalizing everything in the name of profit.

    One day Apple will have cut-out so many non-phone product lines & grass-roots in the name of bean-counting, they'll turn themselves into soon-to-be-dead, "Watson-or-Bust" IBM.
    Microsoft managed to stay on top of the PC world for 30 years with its Windows product.  I'm not sure why so many people seem to think that making the best smartphone and ecosystem and brand, with positive feedback from success paying for and promoting more success, isn't a lasting business.
  • Reply 86 of 130
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 3,056member
    I see a guy with two wireless BT devices in his ears. Ones that look much, much better than all the Ohura things people have been wearing for almost 20 years now.
    the what things?
  • Reply 87 of 130
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    normm said:
    arlor said:
    As somebody who's interested in the products, not the financials, and actually owns an old Mac Pro, I'm still allowed to want an up to date Mac Pro, right? Or should I just shut up about it, because I should care more about Apple's profitability?
    Either way, monster of an article!

    But yes, even though Peter Thiel and Wired are sensationalists who are not as intelligent or prescient as El Steve, it is looking like Apple's best days are behind it.

    And all you really have to do is read the first part of the article. -Backwards-rationalizing everything in the name of profit.

    One day Apple will have cut-out so many non-phone product lines & grass-roots in the name of bean-counting, they'll turn themselves into soon-to-be-dead, "Watson-or-Bust" IBM.
    Microsoft managed to stay on top of the PC world for 30 years with its Windows product.  I'm not sure why so many people seem to think that making the best smartphone and ecosystem and brand, with positive feedback from success paying for and promoting more success, isn't a lasting business.
    And they did it without having a single lock on the HW, while Apple has massive vertical and horizontal integration from its multiple ARM chip designs to other HW components right up through the kernel, OS, multiple GUIs, apps, and their iCloud to connect them all seamlessly.
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 88 of 130
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    It's a Star Trek reference.

    StrangeDays
  • Reply 89 of 130
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,289member
    Sorry, there is simply no excuse for Apple not updating core products like the MacPro and Mac Mini.  They are leaving money on the table.  They are not innovating.  The PC is not dead.  The Microsoft Surface Pro is more compelling than any iMac in the last three years.  Come on Apple, you are leaving your customers high and dry.

    Well, the reason is very obvious:

    DOES IT IMPROVE THE CUSTOMER'S LIFE?   DOES IT MAKE IT BETTER?


  • Reply 90 of 130
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,622member
    avon b7 said:
    copeland said:

    On the one hand Apple stands as the lighthouse for green energy in data center usage and on the other hand they force customers to trash their computers because they cannot be updated and thus have many more years of useful life in them (creating a horrible carbon footprint; unfortunately these effects are never calculated).

    Total Bullshat. I just took my mother's Macbook from 2009, tossed in an SSD and some RAM and installed Sierra on it. Nearly 8 year old computer. 
    I'm sure he's referring to the more recent models that can't be upgraded.
    And yet these non-upgradable notebooks already have the common upgrade -- SSD and a ton of RAM.  Just as with the iPhone and iPad, the appliance-computing model says "Get the size you think you'll need, and use it for years and years". That's why I'm still on a maxed out 2011 iMac for my desktop. With SSD and 20 GB ram (I didn't even max that out), it still works very well. Six years later.
    The problem is that you have to 'upgrade' at time of purchase to what you think you might need down the line and only at Apple pricing. That, in my book, isn't a true upgrade. It's just a BTO. Upgrade decisions are taken down the line when you've had a chance to re-evaluate your needs and the bang for buck on offer.

    If your lucky, you're Mac might last for years and years. iPhones and iPads are not likely to receive the same level of support as Macs.
  • Reply 91 of 130
    jido said:
    In which country was WebOS hailed as a sure success? Did not see that at all. Now I should not say that DanielEran is rewriting history in this forum. 

    Also it is "principal", thank you. 



    janeshepard said:

    Why shouldn't Daniel rewrite history? What's already been written DOES need to be pulled together and corrections applied, in order to counteract the persistent narrative that Apple is doomed. That narrative does NOT serve history. It serves a gang of commercial competitors, basement-dwelling platform haters, stock market manipulators, and a variety of writer-pundits cynically aware that journalistic integrity is passé.

    I surmise that you think Daniel a "fanboy," someone who by definition can't be trusted — someone whose biases overwhelm his appreciation of the facts — and who therefore should voluntarily refrain from spreading dangerously wrong ideas.

    I can be wrong about your thinking this, as I have only the four sentences to judge you. If so, I apologise. But my remarks DO APPLY to very many others. Daniel's historical vision is not clouded, not rosy, but as clear as can be, in contrast to the FUD that seeks to paint Apple an ugly brown colour.
  • Reply 92 of 130
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,622member
    sog35 said:
    avon b7 said:
    copeland said:

    On the one hand Apple stands as the lighthouse for green energy in data center usage and on the other hand they force customers to trash their computers because they cannot be updated and thus have many more years of useful life in them (creating a horrible carbon footprint; unfortunately these effects are never calculated).

    Total Bullshat. I just took my mother's Macbook from 2009, tossed in an SSD and some RAM and installed Sierra on it. Nearly 8 year old computer. 
    I'm sure he's referring to the more recent models that can't be upgraded.
    when was the last time someone grumbled that they could not upgrade their RAM on their iPad or iPhone?

    People just need to realize upgrading tablets/phones/laptops is a thing of the past.
    Not sure if upgrading laptops is a thing of the past. It's more a question of direction. Things could change at some point in the future if new management is appointed.

    We've already seen cases here of new BTO MBPs failing and being unrepairable. Still under warranty, the last case I read had a three week wait for a new machine. Out of warranty (remember, one year in the US), repair would seem to be limited to a few components. Beyond those repairs, the potential bill might mean the machine gets dumped. If you find yourself in that situation you won't be happy.

    It depends on the overall reliability of these machines but right now that is unknown.

    If they prove unreliable, it won't be long until upgradeable models show up.

    This isn't such an issue on iPads because the outlay is less. iPhones are more expensive but not as expensive as the new MBPs.
  • Reply 93 of 130
    eightzero said:
    I see a guy with two wireless BT devices in his ears. Ones that look much, much better than all the Ohura things people have been wearing for almost 20 years now.
    the what things?
    Google it.
  • Reply 94 of 130
    jido said:
    In which country was WebOS hailed as a sure success? Did not see that at all. Now I should not say that DanielEran is rewriting history in this forum. 

    People sure have a bad memory. WebOS was awesome and a great iOS competition that Palm bet the farm on. What Palm didn't know is that Google would steal and give away a good enough OS that completely undercut it. Palm went under quickly and had to sell. If Google hadn't been so immoral, I have no doubt it would be iOS and Palm in the phone market today.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 95 of 130
    Sorry, there is simply no excuse for Apple not updating core products like the MacPro and Mac Mini.  They are leaving money on the table.  They are not innovating.  The PC is not dead.  The Microsoft Surface Pro is more compelling than any iMac in the last three years.  Come on Apple, you are leaving your customers high and dry.
    I think Apple bean counters are trying to force you to buy a new over priced monitor you don't want via an iMac sale. I refuse to bend to such tactics and sit with my 2008 Mac Pro and 2007 Mac mini waiting waiting waiting....
  • Reply 96 of 130
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    copeland said:

    On the one hand Apple stands as the lighthouse for green energy in data center usage and on the other hand they force customers to trash their computers because they cannot be updated and thus have many more years of useful life in them (creating a horrible carbon footprint; unfortunately these effects are never calculated).

    Total Bullshat. I just took my mother's Macbook from 2009, tossed in an SSD and some RAM and installed Sierra on it. Nearly 8 year old computer. 
    I'm sure he's referring to the more recent models that can't be upgraded.
    And yet these non-upgradable notebooks already have the common upgrade -- SSD and a ton of RAM.  Just as with the iPhone and iPad, the appliance-computing model says "Get the size you think you'll need, and use it for years and years". That's why I'm still on a maxed out 2011 iMac for my desktop. With SSD and 20 GB ram (I didn't even max that out), it still works very well. Six years later.
    The problem is that you have to 'upgrade' at time of purchase to what you think you might need down the line and only at Apple pricing. That, in my book, isn't a true upgrade. It's just a BTO. Upgrade decisions are taken down the line when you've had a chance to re-evaluate your needs and the bang for buck on offer.

    If your lucky, you're Mac might last for years and years. iPhones and iPads are not likely to receive the same level of support as Macs.
    My 2010 ipad still works, however i wouldn't use it today due to the amazing improvements in the same period -- half the size, a hundred times faster, better display... But it's a much less expensive device than a 27" desktop computer. 

    If you're a pro there's little reason to not max out the important stats. If you're a consumer, the odds are very good that you'll never, ever be upgrading your notebook's hardware. 

    Apple neednt design for every use use case. The most common ones is their MO. If you want to tinker then a DIY PC is a better fit for you. 
  • Reply 97 of 130

    avon b7 said:
    sog35 said:
    avon b7 said:
    copeland said:

    On the one hand Apple stands as the lighthouse for green energy in data center usage and on the other hand they force customers to trash their computers because they cannot be updated and thus have many more years of useful life in them (creating a horrible carbon footprint; unfortunately these effects are never calculated).

    Total Bullshat. I just took my mother's Macbook from 2009, tossed in an SSD and some RAM and installed Sierra on it. Nearly 8 year old computer. 
    I'm sure he's referring to the more recent models that can't be upgraded.
    when was the last time someone grumbled that they could not upgrade their RAM on their iPad or iPhone?

    People just need to realize upgrading tablets/phones/laptops is a thing of the past.
    Not sure if upgrading laptops is a thing of the past. It's more a question of direction. Things could change at some point in the future if new management is appointed.

    We've already seen cases here of new BTO MBPs failing and being unrepairable. Still under warranty, the last case I read had a three week wait for a new machine. Out of warranty (remember, one year in the US), repair would seem to be limited to a few components. Beyond those repairs, the potential bill might mean the machine gets dumped. If you find yourself in that situation you won't be happy.

    It depends on the overall reliability of these machines but right now that is unknown.

    If they prove unreliable, it won't be long until upgradeable models show up.

    This isn't such an issue on iPads because the outlay is less. iPhones are more expensive but not as expensive as the new MBPs.
    What sort of repair? Logic boards are around $600, so if this is a multi-thousand dollar pro notebook that's not worth trashing the machine over. Tho if this is a business machine that generates revenue i'd sure have apple care as well. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 98 of 130
    Wow..... what a complete load of tosh. To think that a so-called 'journalist' gets paid to write such drivvel is quite staggering. I've read quite a few of Daniel's articles and they are fanboy fodder at best, but this really takes it to a whole new level.

    Excuse me while I go and lie down to recover from the insult my brain has just taken....

    Oh and before anyone accuses me of Apple bashing, I write this on my iPhone 6 while my iPad and MacBook Air charge downstairs.
    Instead of telling us how much apple gear you own (what, no stock too?), why don't you cite what you think is factually untrue? Because DED nailed it. I know trolls hate to read them tho. 
    janeshepardwatto_cobra
  • Reply 99 of 130
    firelock said:
    eriamjh said:
    I think the article says if Apple doesn't make money doing it, they're gonna stop doing it.  

    Maybe be that's why the Mac Pro hasn't been updated?  

    IPhones help sell iMacs, not Mac Pros.  
    The problem with the Mac Pro sales is that their sales have been cannibalized by sales of high-end iMacs. I've been managing photoretouching and graphic design studios for almost 25 years. For most of that history I bought the highest end Mac that I could in order to work more efficiently. About five years ago it was time to upgrade our old tower Mac Pros and for the first time I said, you know, a high-end iMac will do just fine for the kind of work that we do (mostly Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator, etc.) and also save us a lot of money and desktop space. If we were doing video production or 3D rendering I would have been able to justify the additional expense for a Mac Pro, and indeed our video team has one of the "trash can" Mac Pros. I also know from talking to other studio directors that this change has happened across the industry. Retouching studios that used to exclusively buy Pro towers are now perfectly content with maxed out iMacs.
    Because the macPros are 1) way over priced when getting decent options, 2) not internally expandable so now are no different then an iMac, 3) not updated so need an iMac for latest chips, 4) no Apple monitors anymore so need an iMac or 3rd party monitor - defeating the point of spending big money on a nice looking mac Pro to be cabled to an ugly monitor (yes vain, but it's a factor).

    Apples is effectively forcing us to buy iMacs  - they get us to purchase an over priced disposable monitor if we want it or not. I for one refuse to throw away a perfectly good monitor every 3-5 years. It's hypocritical by Apple who touts recyclability 24/7 - there is nothing greener then updated an old computer to give it a few more years of life.
  • Reply 100 of 130
    brakkenbrakken Posts: 687member
    I've been waiting for this article, Dan, and I'm not disappointed.
    Previous years, there was competition looming, then hyped chance of competition, then destroyed competition, and now absent and ineffectual competition. Astonishingly, there is this reverse pro-govt control through fascism, and anti-capitalistic success is being celebrated.

    Is TUSA really a capitalistic democracy? Seems to me like fascism has won the day - rule by emotional reactions formented by propagandist efforts to facilitate the goals of a select few.

    In any case, I completely agree. Apple does what helps it survive - as do all companies. It's just that Apple doesn't use propaganda but lovely design and ease-of-use based on the skills of creative specialists.

    I really hope Apple extends itself further into politics, providing an opposing force to the mentally incapacitated bigotry plaguing TUSA.
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