AppleInsider podcast talks iPhone and USB-C, iPads instead of Mac, and the meaning of 'pro...

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Posted:
in General Discussion edited September 2020
This week on the AppleInsider podcast, Neil and Victor talk about USB-C and iOS devices, iPads as computer replacements, and what the definition of "pro" is.


iPhone 8 concept by iMore


AppleInsider editors Neil Hughes and Victor Marks discuss:
  • Apple launches new series of iPad Pro ads as anticipated hardware refresh looms
  • Dan's editorial, "The future of Steve Jobs' iPad vision for Post-PC computing"
  • All of Apple's 2017 iPhones will include fast charging via Lightning port, not USB-C
  • Eero review: Wi-Fi for the masses
  • Neil's review of the D-Link Omna HomeKit camera
The show is available on iTunes and your favorite podcast apps by searching for "AppleInsider." Click here to listen, subscribe, and don't forget to rate our show.

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Listen to the embedded SoundCloud feed below:



Show note links: Follow our hosts on Twitter: @thisisneil and @vmarks.

Feedback and comments are always appreciated. Please contact the AppleInsider podcast at [email protected] and follow us on Twitter @appleinsider, plus Facebook and Instagram.

Those interested in sponsoring the show can reach out to us at [email protected].

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 12
    tyler allen86tyler allen86 Posts: 11member
    Simple. Something running a phone's OS shouldn't be called pro anything!
  • Reply 2 of 12
    wozwozwozwoz Posts: 263member
    Does Apple make a USB-C to Ethernet adapter yet?  And preferably one that can carry power too, so one can have ethernet hub in the cupboard, and just a single cable to the computer.
  • Reply 3 of 12
    bdkennedy1002bdkennedy1002 Posts: 543member
    Pro is a marketing term. That's all it is.
  • Reply 4 of 12
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,861administrator
    wozwoz said:
    Does Apple make a USB-C to Ethernet adapter yet?  And preferably one that can carry power too, so one can have ethernet hub in the cupboard, and just a single cable to the computer.
    They do not. They sell Belkin's.
  • Reply 5 of 12
    nhughesnhughes Posts: 770editor
    wozwoz said:
    Does Apple make a USB-C to Ethernet adapter yet?  And preferably one that can carry power too, so one can have ethernet hub in the cupboard, and just a single cable to the computer.
    Somewhat related: Victor tried using an iPhone with a Lightning-to-USB adapter plugged into a USB-to-Ethernet adapter recently, and it works. You can do the same with your iPad as well (Phil Schiller has mentioned this in interviews before).

  • Reply 6 of 12
    vmarksvmarks Posts: 762editor
    nhughes said:
    wozwoz said:
    Does Apple make a USB-C to Ethernet adapter yet?  And preferably one that can carry power too, so one can have ethernet hub in the cupboard, and just a single cable to the computer.
    Somewhat related: Victor tried using an iPhone with a Lightning-to-USB adapter plugged into a USB-to-Ethernet adapter recently, and it works. You can do the same with your iPad as well (Phil Schiller has mentioned this in interviews before).

    When I did this, I put the iPhone in Airplane mode, making sure Cellular, Wi-Fi and BT were turned off. Then I connected the USB 3 camera connector kit with the Apple USB Ethernet adapter plugged into it. Ethernet appeared as a new option below Wi-Fi, and opening Safari momentarily caused it to throw the "turn off Airplane mode to connect" which went away and Safari acted as desired.

    Important detail here - you have to have Lightning power connected to the Camera adapter for this to work. Otherwise, the phone doesn't have enough power to run the adapters.

    We've done POE (Power over Ethernet) for years. I don't think it's possible to do POE to USB-C to power a Mac laptop, because the power demands are too great. The MacBook Pro uses a 61W supply. Up to 25.5 W is available for a device over POE. In the future, it may be possible to do more - IEEE is looking at standards to allow 55 W and 90-100 W, but we're going to have to get new adapters made up to handle this.
    edited March 2017 cgWerks
  • Reply 7 of 12
    MetriacanthosaurusMetriacanthosaurus Posts: 880member
    No offense: you guys discussing Eero sound like the blind leading the blind. Doesn't sound like you know much about networking.

    Products like these serve one purpose and one purpose only...the illusion of signal. The concept is no different than any wireless repeater or range extender that has ever existed. By sitting closer to one of these faux nodes, you'll have signal. Full bars! It must be good! Wrong. You are giving up significant bandwidth and latency in these arrangements.

    The correct way to setup a network is to WIRE together multiple wireless nodes. Apple's AirPort Extreme's are adept at this and can be easily extended into a true mesh network over Ethernet.
    cgWerks
  • Reply 8 of 12
    vmarksvmarks Posts: 762editor
    No offense: you guys discussing Eero sound like the blind leading the blind. Doesn't sound like you know much about networking.

    Products like these serve one purpose and one purpose only...the illusion of signal. The concept is no different than any wireless repeater or range extender that has ever existed. By sitting closer to one of these faux nodes, you'll have signal. Full bars! It must be good! Wrong. You are giving up significant bandwidth and latency in these arrangements.

    The correct way to setup a network is to WIRE together multiple wireless nodes. Apple's AirPort Extreme's are adept at this and can be easily extended into a true mesh network over Ethernet.
    Actually, Eero can be wired together with Ethernet, but most users will never do it. If you have Wi-Fi, the chances that you'll make the investment in wiring a building for Ethernet through the walls is pretty slim. Having good Wi-Fi, or being able to use a mesh repeater like this and get reasonably good Wi-Fi is a powerful demotivator for installing Ethernet wiring for most people. Testing these while connected by Ethernet would have been an invalid review, because it would be different from how most customers will use them. It would be pointless to discuss that as a part of the review or the podcast.

    Repeating signal is not the illusion of signal. You increase a little latency, but you don't *have* to give up bandwidth necessarily, especially if we're comparing against another wireless router (like with like, not Wi-Fi vs. Ethernet.) If you gain coverage in places that you formerly would have had no reception at all, that's problem solved for the target consumer for these devices. If you're able to make a connection, load pages, and stream TV over it, it isn't an illusion. I grant you, it's not what you'd want for online gaming, but if you're doing that, you're already using a low latency Ethernet card anyway. 

    Again, yes, you can create a roaming network with Airport Extremes wired with Ethernet. The number of people with Ethernet in their homes is vanishingly small. The number of people who have complaints about Wi-Fi coverage in home is not insignificant. Wiring routers together with Ethernet isn't reality for most people, and telling them, "get someone to run cat 5e or 6 through your walls and put in wall plates" is a non-starter. 


    edited March 2017
  • Reply 9 of 12
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,952member
    re: pro I think you guys missed the point a bit. 'Pro' has to do with the kind of hardware/software, and typically certain higher-end use cases, not that a 'professional' person who uses it to get paid work done. (And, that's the trick here, the word has had a change of meaning in Apple's vocabulary.) For example, a lawyer could use a Chromebook to write a legal document, but that doesn't mean a Chromebook is now a pro machine. When I think of 'pro' in terms of a computer, I'm thinking stuff like durability or duty-cycle (ie: can it run 24x7 crunching that 3D rendering, or will the heat damage it), reliability (like ECC RAM, RAID), performance (GPU, or can it move data fast enough to edit video). As for how big Apple's eco-system needs to be, that's debatable. For example, do they need to make printers and routers? But, I think there needs to be a recognition that there is an eco-system, and there will be an impact of ignoring important segments of it. If Apple loses we long-term advocates and creatives, and shifts to pop-culture emoji fans, it will impact them down the road in a bigger way than the pie-chart currently indicates to Tim. (For example, when Apple put all that money into the education market several decades ago, it wasn't because it was the biggest pie-slice, it was an investment in future pay-off. Or, when Ford builds race-cars, it benefits Ford as a whole in a number of ways, even though it's a money-loser and represents 0.0001% of their product line.) I agree with your view on Apple's single-app, distraction free vision... along with the benefits and detriments. That's why I think the two OSs should remain distinct in terms of UX/UI, and share data.
  • Reply 10 of 12
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,861administrator
    Metriacanthosaurus said:
    No offense: you guys discussing Eero sound like the blind leading the blind. Doesn't sound like you know much about networking.

    Products like these serve one purpose and one purpose only...the illusion of signal. The concept is no different than any wireless repeater or range extender that has ever existed. By sitting closer to one of these faux nodes, you'll have signal. Full bars! It must be good! Wrong. You are giving up significant bandwidth and latency in these arrangements.

    The correct way to setup a network is to WIRE together multiple wireless nodes. Apple's AirPort Extreme's are adept at this and can be easily extended into a true mesh network over Ethernet.
    The Eero uses a slightly different sharing mechanism than the non-mesh wireless extensions. There is a very small hit on latency with the eero -- less than 10%, and about a 15% sacrifice in bandwidth regardless of how many eero stations you're using, versus doing the same with an Airport wirelessly which is about 30% and 35%, respectively, and gets worse with more.

    That said, I prefer an ethernet backbone with multiple basestations. No latency or bandwidth hit.
    Metriacanthosaurus
  • Reply 11 of 12
    vmarksvmarks Posts: 762editor
    cgWerks said:
    re: pro I think you guys missed the point a bit. 'Pro' has to do with the kind of hardware/software, and typically certain higher-end use cases, not that a 'professional' person who uses it to get paid work done. (And, that's the trick here, the word has had a change of meaning in Apple's vocabulary.) For example, a lawyer could use a Chromebook to write a legal document, but that doesn't mean a Chromebook is now a pro machine. When I think of 'pro' in terms of a computer, I'm thinking stuff like durability or duty-cycle (ie: can it run 24x7 crunching that 3D rendering, or will the heat damage it), reliability (like ECC RAM, RAID), performance (GPU, or can it move data fast enough to edit video). As for how big Apple's eco-system needs to be, that's debatable. For example, do they need to make printers and routers? But, I think there needs to be a recognition that there is an eco-system, and there will be an impact of ignoring important segments of it. If Apple loses we long-term advocates and creatives, and shifts to pop-culture emoji fans, it will impact them down the road in a bigger way than the pie-chart currently indicates to Tim. (For example, when Apple put all that money into the education market several decades ago, it wasn't because it was the biggest pie-slice, it was an investment in future pay-off. Or, when Ford builds race-cars, it benefits Ford as a whole in a number of ways, even though it's a money-loser and represents 0.0001% of their product line.) I agree with your view on Apple's single-app, distraction free vision... along with the benefits and detriments. That's why I think the two OSs should remain distinct in terms of UX/UI, and share data.
    You're right to recognize that the word Pro has two meanings - formerly, the "Mac Pro," or the four product matrix, two for consumer level, two for pro level products, and now the meaning, 'could a person use it for their professional work?'

    The thing I would say is, overarching all of this, Apple has long been about what a person can do - what's the job to get done, and what impediments can be removed so that the job gets done more easily, more enjoyably? Now, Jobs knew that even if they didn't want to talk speeds and feeds, they certainly had to increase a computer's capabilities, to get to that result. To that end, in the old days, they waltzed Jon Rubenstein on stage to show how processors batch instructions, or do Mac vs PC bake-offs to show which was faster at the same task on the same software product. Those days are gone, because they aren't the underdog with something to prove any longer - in their minds. (In Apple's world, they used to prefer to talk about "can it move data fast enough to edit video" over "what are the specs of the GPU.")

    It's possible that's a large mistake - that even when you aren't the underdog, you have to keep proving why your products are the best for a given task every quarter, and they seem to have given up talking about that, taking it as given. 
  • Reply 12 of 12
    MetriacanthosaurusMetriacanthosaurus Posts: 880member
    vmarks said:
    No offense: you guys discussing Eero sound like the blind leading the blind. Doesn't sound like you know much about networking.

    Products like these serve one purpose and one purpose only...the illusion of signal. The concept is no different than any wireless repeater or range extender that has ever existed. By sitting closer to one of these faux nodes, you'll have signal. Full bars! It must be good! Wrong. You are giving up significant bandwidth and latency in these arrangements.

    The correct way to setup a network is to WIRE together multiple wireless nodes. Apple's AirPort Extreme's are adept at this and can be easily extended into a true mesh network over Ethernet.
    Actually, Eero can be wired together with Ethernet, but most users will never do it. If you have Wi-Fi, the chances that you'll make the investment in wiring a building for Ethernet through the walls is pretty slim. Having good Wi-Fi, or being able to use a mesh repeater like this and get reasonably good Wi-Fi is a powerful demotivator for installing Ethernet wiring for most people. Testing these while connected by Ethernet would have been an invalid review, because it would be different from how most customers will use them. It would be pointless to discuss that as a part of the review or the podcast.

    Repeating signal is not the illusion of signal. You increase a little latency, but you don't *have* to give up bandwidth necessarily, especially if we're comparing against another wireless router (like with like, not Wi-Fi vs. Ethernet.) If you gain coverage in places that you formerly would have had no reception at all, that's problem solved for the target consumer for these devices. If you're able to make a connection, load pages, and stream TV over it, it isn't an illusion. I grant you, it's not what you'd want for online gaming, but if you're doing that, you're already using a low latency Ethernet card anyway. 

    Again, yes, you can create a roaming network with Airport Extremes wired with Ethernet. The number of people with Ethernet in their homes is vanishingly small. The number of people who have complaints about Wi-Fi coverage in home is not insignificant. Wiring routers together with Ethernet isn't reality for most people, and telling them, "get someone to run cat 5e or 6 through your walls and put in wall plates" is a non-starter. 


    I completely disagree. Wiring Ethernet is no more or less popular today than it ever has been. It entirely relates to the knowledge of the buyer. There is only one correct way to setup a network. Any other way is the wrong way, and it should noted as such. Just because products exist that take advantage of people's lack of knowledge and susceptibility to gimmicks doesn't change that.

    You cannot have the same wireless performance from a satellite node than you can from the primary node. It is impossible. You make the case that the reduced performance might be "good enough" for the user, and I tend to agree that the user will think it is good enough, because they went from 2 bars to 5.

    Sorry, I can't ever support the advocation of these products. Even to the non-technies. "Run a wire through the attic or basement" is not asking a lot, even of the non-techies.
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