I always wondered about the logic of purchasing and then lugging around 2 separate computer systems that do essentially the same functions and the only real difference being screen size? ... Carrying an Apple Watch and an IPhone -- that's ok and it's not what I'm talking about.
But carrying an IPhone and an IPad and a MacBook are just totally, absolutely redundant. Almost a crazy kind of stupid. They each are supporting: systems board, batteries, memory and processors that are each capable of doing what the other formfactor is doing. The only real difference is screen size and external keyboard & touchpad.
So, OK! Let's Do This! It's time to leave the 20th century!
But, there is another, more important reason: Apple is getting killed by the Chromebook. Parents, schools and kids simply don't want to shell out $2,000 when $200 gives them what they need. But, they all carry IPhones. By plugging them into a light, thin, dumb terminal that supplies a large screen and professional quality keyboard you have everything you need at less than the cost of a Chromebook -- and Apple preserves its youth market.
First of all, Apple is not getting killed by the Chromebook. Apple is losing some iPad sales to Chromebooks in education. Chromebooks by and large have failed just as miserably as netbooks did (Apple sells more iPads then all other's chromebook sales combined and many companies have stopped selling them except to education). They have found a niche in K-6 classrooms, because they're cheap and fairly indestructible compared to a tablet. Outside of that, Some people might consider getting one instead of a cheap Windows computer.
Second, why would anyone carry all those things with them? It's not about having everything with you all the time, it's about having the right device when you need it.
I have an iPhone SE, a 9.7" iPad Pro, and a 27" iMac. The iMac stays where it sits 24/7. The iPad moves with me around the house; couch, porch, kitchen, bathroom, etc. and sometimes I take it with me when I leave the house (when I need something more than an my iPhone). The iPhone sits on the table by the door and goes with me whenever I leave, but I rarely use it at home, except to occasional (rarely) make or answer a phone call, because I can also do that from my iPad and iMac.
No, they're getting killed. My grandson won't even consider using anything but a Chromebook of his Mom's touchscreen HP Windows 10 machine for his homework.
Hmm so Apple is getting killed because your grandson. uh huh. got it.
I always wondered about the logic of purchasing and then lugging around 2 separate computer systems that do essentially the same functions and the only real difference being screen size? ... Carrying an Apple Watch and an IPhone -- that's ok and it's not what I'm talking about.
But carrying an IPhone and an IPad and a MacBook are just totally, absolutely redundant. Almost a crazy kind of stupid. They each are supporting: systems board, batteries, memory and processors that are each capable of doing what the other formfactor is doing. The only real difference is screen size and external keyboard & touchpad.
So, OK! Let's Do This! It's time to leave the 20th century!
But, there is another, more important reason: Apple is getting killed by the Chromebook. Parents, schools and kids simply don't want to shell out $2,000 when $200 gives them what they need. But, they all carry IPhones. By plugging them into a light, thin, dumb terminal that supplies a large screen and professional quality keyboard you have everything you need at less than the cost of a Chromebook -- and Apple preserves its youth market.
First of all, Apple is not getting killed by the Chromebook. Apple is losing some iPad sales to Chromebooks in education. Chromebooks by and large have failed just as miserably as netbooks did (Apple sells more iPads then all other's chromebook sales combined and many companies have stopped selling them except to education). They have found a niche in K-6 classrooms, because they're cheap and fairly indestructible compared to a tablet. Outside of that, Some people might consider getting one instead of a cheap Windows computer.
Second, why would anyone carry all those things with them? It's not about having everything with you all the time, it's about having the right device when you need it.
I have an iPhone SE, a 9.7" iPad Pro, and a 27" iMac. The iMac stays where it sits 24/7. The iPad moves with me around the house; couch, porch, kitchen, bathroom, etc. and sometimes I take it with me when I leave the house (when I need something more than an my iPhone). The iPhone sits on the table by the door and goes with me whenever I leave, but I rarely use it at home, except to occasional (rarely) make or answer a phone call, because I can also do that from my iPad and iMac.
No, they're getting killed. My grandson won't even consider using anything but a Chromebook of his Mom's touchscreen HP Windows 10 machine for his homework.
Hmm so Apple is getting killed because your grandson. uh huh. got it.
Sorry, the world moves on... Education is slowly moving into a computerized world -- but schools don't have the money for MacBooks of any type and, without a cursor, IPads are of limited functionality. It will be interesting to see what the new IPad does in the education market. But my bet will be that schools will continue to go with the traditional laptop form via cheap Chromebooks as they have been doing... And, until Apple offers them a competitive option that offers the same functionality at competitive pricing, they will continue down the road to GoogleLand.
I think Apple could bring macOS to an iPad Pro with keyboard cover just with software. Of course that keyboard would have to have an additional trackpad for macOS. The difference between macOS and iOS is essentially Cocoa and Cocoa Touch. I said essentially, there are other frameworks for macOS but for the purpose of having a lightweight portable (as in hardware and software performance), I believe there’s not that much more needed. With the simple addition of a trackpad in the keyboard your iPad Pro can also be a MacBook Lite. I guess the touch screen could optionally still be active in macOS mode for those who would want to try that, I’m not sure I would. For that matter the trackpad could also stay active in iOS as well but I would probably want that even less. I won't knock it before I try it but …
You’re obviously not getting a MacBook Pro out of this, most likely an underpowered MacBook at best but this would basically be an iPad with a macOS virtual machine, with only a little extra weight and cost. It would still be a niche market but could gain some traction for road warriors with a budget. And no, it would definitely not be an alternative to cheap Chromebooks.
If Apple is not interested they could always let Parallels or VMware do it.
Man, I just wish Apple would add mouse support for iOS. At that point, I might actually use my iPad for content creation. The ability to insert a cursor or select a block of text in iOS is painful and too slow. Copying and pasting is still a pain and often results in deselecting the selected text. Also, if I have a misspelled word, half the time I have to navigate to a second submenu to select the correct spelling. If the word is underlined red and I select it, wouldn't my most obvious action be to correct it rather than copy, cut, paste or Other...?
The MacBook bigots say that the cursor is THEIRS and YOU CAN'T HAVE IT! EVER!
Here's an example on a 3D Drawing App using the iPad Pro and Pencil. It shows one implementation of a cursor in iOS. Very nice, IMO!
Man, I just wish Apple would add mouse support for iOS. At that point, I might actually use my iPad for content creation. The ability to insert a cursor or select a block of text in iOS is painful and too slow. Copying and pasting is still a pain and often results in deselecting the selected text. Also, if I have a misspelled word, half the time I have to navigate to a second submenu to select the correct spelling. If the word is underlined red and I select it, wouldn't my most obvious action be to correct it rather than copy, cut, paste or Other...?
The MacBook bigots say that the cursor is THEIRS and YOU CAN'T HAVE IT! EVER!
And they will keep on saying it until Apple finally releases a touch based laptop a few years down the road. ( Like a lot of users were before the iPhone 6 and 6plus were-The 3.5 / 4 inch phone is perfect; no one needs the big screen on android phones.
Here is an idea: Why doesn't Apple just build touchscreens into their computers?
Said by someone without a clue and has never tried a touchscreen computer. reaching all the time and having finger prints on your desktop is a pain.
Wow, that was both rude and presumptuous. How do you know what the OP has or hasn't tried?
I use touchscreen desktops all day every day at work. There are some things that are better accomplished with the mouse or keyboard, and many things that are much quicker, more intuitive, and more easily accomplished by touching the screen.
I haven't yet worked with a touch laptop, but my wife has a 12.9" iPad Pro with the Apple keyboard which is pretty much the same thing. So far neither of us has had an arm fall off.
The critical factor opponents to touch screen always seem to overlook is that touch is not the ONLY method of interacting with the machine. The mouse and keyboard are still there. Touch just adds ANOTHER form of input, one that is often very useful.
I always wondered about the logic of purchasing and then lugging around 2 separate computer systems that do essentially the same functions and the only real difference being screen size? ... Carrying an Apple Watch and an IPhone -- that's ok and it's not what I'm talking about.
But carrying an IPhone and an IPad and a MacBook are just totally, absolutely redundant. Almost a crazy kind of stupid. They each are supporting: systems board, batteries, memory and processors that are each capable of doing what the other formfactor is doing. The only real difference is screen size and external keyboard & touchpad.
So, OK! Let's Do This! It's time to leave the 20th century!
But, there is another, more important reason: Apple is getting killed by the Chromebook. Parents, schools and kids simply don't want to shell out $2,000 when $200 gives them what they need. But, they all carry IPhones. By plugging them into a light, thin, dumb terminal that supplies a large screen and professional quality keyboard you have everything you need at less than the cost of a Chromebook -- and Apple preserves its youth market.
They should definitely do an iOS laptop. 500 million potential users who have iPhones but don't need the power of the MAC. They would feed into services via the iOS App Store.
Could easily do 9.7 inch in the polyCarbonate from the 5C for 299.
Then also premium based on the iPadPro starting at 899.
I always wondered about the logic of purchasing and then lugging around 2 separate computer systems that do essentially the same functions and the only real difference being screen size? ... Carrying an Apple Watch and an IPhone -- that's ok and it's not what I'm talking about.
But carrying an IPhone and an IPad and a MacBook are just totally, absolutely redundant. Almost a crazy kind of stupid. They each are supporting: systems board, batteries, memory and processors that are each capable of doing what the other formfactor is doing. The only real difference is screen size and external keyboard & touchpad.
So, OK! Let's Do This! It's time to leave the 20th century!
But, there is another, more important reason: Apple is getting killed by the Chromebook. Parents, schools and kids simply don't want to shell out $2,000 when $200 gives them what they need. But, they all carry IPhones. By plugging them into a light, thin, dumb terminal that supplies a large screen and professional quality keyboard you have everything you need at less than the cost of a Chromebook -- and Apple preserves its youth market.
They should definitely do an iOS laptop. 500 million potential users who have iPhones but don't need the power of the MAC. They would feed into services via the iOS App Store.
Could easily do 9.7 inch in the polyCarbonate from the 5C for 299.
Then also premium based on the iPadPro starting at 899.
Well, the new Ipad with a decent keyboard can now be had for about $400, $450 if you really splurge on keyboard and make it a great case too.
I think Apple could bring macOS to an iPad Pro with keyboard cover just with software. Of course that keyboard would have to have an additional trackpad for macOS. The difference between macOS and iOS is essentially Cocoa and Cocoa Touch. I said essentially, there are other frameworks for macOS but for the purpose of having a lightweight portable (as in hardware and software performance), I believe there’s not that much more needed. With the simple addition of a trackpad in the keyboard your iPad Pro can also be a MacBook Lite. I guess the touch screen could optionally still be active in macOS mode for those who would want to try that, I’m not sure I would. For that matter the trackpad could also stay active in iOS as well but I would probably want that even less. I won't knock it before I try it but …
You’re obviously not getting a MacBook Pro out of this, most likely an underpowered MacBook at best but this would basically be an iPad with a macOS virtual machine, with only a little extra weight and cost. It would still be a niche market but could gain some traction for road warriors with a budget. And no, it would definitely not be an alternative to cheap Chromebooks.
If Apple is not interested they could always let Parallels or VMware do it.
Since IOS was created from the rib of MacOS, that sounds entirely reasonable.
Man, I just wish Apple would add mouse support for iOS. At that point, I might actually use my iPad for content creation. The ability to insert a cursor or select a block of text in iOS is painful and too slow. Copying and pasting is still a pain and often results in deselecting the selected text. Also, if I have a misspelled word, half the time I have to navigate to a second submenu to select the correct spelling. If the word is underlined red and I select it, wouldn't my most obvious action be to correct it rather than copy, cut, paste or Other...?
The MacBook bigots say that the cursor is THEIRS and YOU CAN'T HAVE IT! EVER!
Here's an example on a 3D Drawing App using the iPad Pro and Pencil. It shows one implementation of a cursor in iOS. Very nice, IMO!
Here's another -- not quite as nice, IMO.
Wow! Thanks for sharing that. I hadn't seen the pencil used since its original demo and I don't think it was anything like that. That, (especially the first video) was so impressive it was scary! For me, mind boggling...
A keyboard, trackpad, and larger screen aren't the factors limiting the adoption of iOS devices as laptop replacements. It's the OS itself.
Some of the core design elements that make iOS so appealing also happen to be terrible for "serious" work. This includes the sandboxed and simplified file system, as well as the touch-oriented user interface which doesn't work well with a vertically positioned display or pointer based interactions via trackpad or mouse.
How could Apple make iOS's file system more flexible and open for power users without degrading its simplicity and security for more casual use?
How could Apple facilitate a keyboard+trackpad model with rich on screen controls on iOS without sacrificing touch based operation?
I struggle to imagine how these two key problems could be solved without a major redesign of the GUI and interaction model, so I disagree with Campbell's suggestion that this is likely to turn up in Apple's product line any time soon.
Here is an idea: Why doesn't Apple just build touchscreens into their computers?
Because iPads already have a touch-screen and if you want that feature you need to buy an iPad. Apple thanks you for doing so. None of that 2 in 1 stuff for Apple users.
The iPhone docked one I understand, it's a keyboard case AND large screen for viewing content, the iPad one not so much - it's basically a keyboard case which there are plenty of arguably tidier options already, including from apple themselves.
Agreed. Plus considering this would be made from machined aluminum instead of plastic, it would be very thick and heavy compared to a MacBook. I still believe in the notion that you should choose the best device for the task at hand rather than settling for an all-in-one product with lots of compromises.
Now here's an idea:- Why doesn't Apple just build 3G/4G/5G modems into their computers?
This used to be on my wish list as well, but I don't think it makes much sense anymore to add cellular modems to laptops. Most people can now use tethering to create a mobile hotspot from their smartphone. To me this seems far preferable to paying a $100+ premium for a cellular radio in a MacBook, not to mention the idea of having to pay yet another monthly fee to a wireless carrier.
I always wondered about the logic of purchasing and then lugging around 2 separate computer systems that do essentially the same functions and the only real difference being screen size? ... Carrying an Apple Watch and an IPhone -- that's ok and it's not what I'm talking about.
But carrying an IPhone and an IPad and a MacBook are just totally, absolutely redundant. Almost a crazy kind of stupid. They each are supporting: systems board, batteries, memory and processors that are each capable of doing what the other formfactor is doing. The only real difference is screen size and external keyboard & touchpad.
So, OK! Let's Do This! It's time to leave the 20th century!
But, there is another, more important reason: Apple is getting killed by the Chromebook. Parents, schools and kids simply don't want to shell out $2,000 when $200 gives them what they need. But, they all carry IPhones. By plugging them into a light, thin, dumb terminal that supplies a large screen and professional quality keyboard you have everything you need at less than the cost of a Chromebook -- and Apple preserves its youth market.
First of all, Apple is not getting killed by the Chromebook. Apple is losing some iPad sales to Chromebooks in education. Chromebooks by and large have failed just as miserably as netbooks did (Apple sells more iPads then all other's chromebook sales combined and many companies have stopped selling them except to education). They have found a niche in K-6 classrooms, because they're cheap and fairly indestructible compared to a tablet. Outside of that, Some people might consider getting one instead of a cheap Windows computer.
Second, why would anyone carry all those things with them? It's not about having everything with you all the time, it's about having the right device when you need it.
I have an iPhone SE, a 9.7" iPad Pro, and a 27" iMac. The iMac stays where it sits 24/7. The iPad moves with me around the house; couch, porch, kitchen, bathroom, etc. and sometimes I take it with me when I leave the house (when I need something more than an my iPhone). The iPhone sits on the table by the door and goes with me whenever I leave, but I rarely use it at home, except to occasional (rarely) make or answer a phone call, because I can also do that from my iPad and iMac.
No, they're getting killed. My grandson won't even consider using anything but a Chromebook of his Mom's touchscreen HP Windows 10 machine for his homework.
Hmm so Apple is getting killed because your grandson. uh huh. got it.
Sorry, the world moves on... Education is slowly moving into a computerized world -- but schools don't have the money for MacBooks of any type and, without a cursor, IPads are of limited functionality. It will be interesting to see what the new IPad does in the education market. But my bet will be that schools will continue to go with the traditional laptop form via cheap Chromebooks as they have been doing... And, until Apple offers them a competitive option that offers the same functionality at competitive pricing, they will continue down the road to GoogleLand.
Which doesn't at all support the claim that Apple is getting killed or will lose to google in the distant future. I used all kinds of crappy computers in my childhood, doesn't mean I'm loyal to them now.
Apple should release an iOS based laptop. An iPad on hinge with keyboard, trackpad and battery in the base. Two models. The first would be a 9.7 budget model made with polycarbonate body (using plastics from the 5C) in multiple colors for kids/education. The second model would be a premium unit with 12.9 screen, trackpad, and keyboard with 360 degree hinge based on the iPad Pro including the Pencil support. This should weigh 1.9 pounds so that it can be held like iPad. iOS is the way to go with a laptop because there are over 500 million iOS Users who could use it easily. iOS just need s better File system support, trackpad (cursor) or mouse support , support for directly connecting printers to the laptop.
You wrote that closing sentence as an afterthought rather than recognizing it represents the biggest hurdle to iOS offering an alternative to macOS.
How do you make iOS's file system as powerful and flexible as the one on macOS without degrading security and usability for less technical users? How do you deliver a rich and dense trackpad/mouse/cursor-based UI without sacrificing touch-based usability? Microsoft has spent an enormous amount of money and manpower tackling these problems without any success.
Apple should release an iOS based laptop. An iPad on hinge with keyboard, trackpad and battery in the base. Two models. The first would be a 9.7 budget model made with polycarbonate body (using plastics from the 5C) in multiple colors for kids/education. The second model would be a premium unit with 12.9 screen, trackpad, and keyboard with 360 degree hinge based on the iPad Pro including the Pencil support. This should weigh 1.9 pounds so that it can be held like iPad. iOS is the way to go with a laptop because there are over 500 million iOS Users who could use it easily. iOS just need s better File system support, trackpad (cursor) or mouse support , support for directly connecting printers to the laptop.
You wrote that closing sentence as an afterthought rather than recognizing it represents the biggest hurdle to iOS offering an alternative to macOS.
How do you make iOS's file system as powerful and flexible as the one on macOS without degrading security and usability for less technical users? How do you deliver a rich and dense trackpad/mouse/cursor-based UI without sacrificing touch-based usability? Microsoft has spent an enormous amount of money and manpower tackling these problems without any success.
Apple's new files system runs on all Apple OSes: TVOS, watchOS, iOS macOS:
HFS+ and its predecessor HFS are more than 30 years old. These file systems were developed in an era of floppy disks and spinning hard drives, when file sizes were calculated in kilobytes or megabytes.
Today, people commonly store hundreds of gigabytes and access millions of files on high-speed, low-latency flash drives. People carry their data with them, and they demand that sensitive information be secure.
Apple File System is a new, modern file system for iOS, macOS, tvOS, and watchOS. It is optimized for Flash/SSD storage and features strong encryption, copy-on-write metadata, space sharing, cloning for files and directories, snapshots, fast directory sizing, atomic safe-save primitives, and improved file system fundamentals.
A Developer Preview of Apple File System is available in macOS Sierra. Apple plans to release Apple File System as a bootable file system in 2017.
A keyboard, trackpad, and larger screen aren't the factors limiting the adoption of iOS devices as laptop replacements. It's the OS itself.
Some of the core design elements that make iOS so appealing also happen to be terrible for "serious" work. This includes the sandboxed and simplified file system, as well as the touch-oriented user interface which doesn't work well with a vertically positioned display or pointer based interactions via trackpad or mouse.
How could Apple make iOS's file system more flexible and open for power users without degrading its simplicity and security for more casual use?
How could Apple facilitate a keyboard+trackpad model with rich on screen controls on iOS without sacrificing touch based operation?
I struggle to imagine how these two key problems could be solved without a major redesign of the GUI and interaction model, so I disagree with Campbell's suggestion that this is likely to turn up in Apple's product line any time soon.
Since IOS was created from the rib of MacOS, I doubt if would be overly hard to put those functions back in. If necessay, they could be switched on or off depending on if a keyboard and/or touchpad was connected and on the particular app being used.
At what point did Microsoft and Apple switch places? Sure OS X is still better than Windows imo, but I think the Surface Studio looks more Apple like than anything Apple has created in years.
Comments
Education is slowly moving into a computerized world -- but schools don't have the money for MacBooks of any type and, without a cursor, IPads are of limited functionality. It will be interesting to see what the new IPad does in the education market. But my bet will be that schools will continue to go with the traditional laptop form via cheap Chromebooks as they have been doing... And, until Apple offers them a competitive option that offers the same functionality at competitive pricing, they will continue down the road to GoogleLand.
I think Apple could bring macOS to an iPad Pro with keyboard cover just with software. Of course that keyboard would have to have an additional trackpad for macOS. The difference between macOS and iOS is essentially Cocoa and Cocoa Touch. I said essentially, there are other frameworks for macOS but for the purpose of having a lightweight portable (as in hardware and software performance), I believe there’s not that much more needed. With the simple addition of a trackpad in the keyboard your iPad Pro can also be a MacBook Lite. I guess the touch screen could optionally still be active in macOS mode for those who would want to try that, I’m not sure I would. For that matter the trackpad could also stay active in iOS as well but I would probably want that even less. I won't knock it before I try it but …
You’re obviously not getting a MacBook Pro out of this, most likely an underpowered MacBook at best but this would basically be an iPad with a macOS virtual machine, with only a little extra weight and cost. It would still be a niche market but could gain some traction for road warriors with a budget. And no, it would definitely not be an alternative to cheap Chromebooks.
If Apple is not interested they could always let Parallels or VMware do it.
Here's an example on a 3D Drawing App using the iPad Pro and Pencil. It shows one implementation of a cursor in iOS. Very nice, IMO!
Here's another -- not quite as nice, IMO.
I use touchscreen desktops all day every day at work. There are some things that are better accomplished with the mouse or keyboard, and many things that are much quicker, more intuitive, and more easily accomplished by touching the screen.
I haven't yet worked with a touch laptop, but my wife has a 12.9" iPad Pro with the Apple keyboard which is pretty much the same thing. So far neither of us has had an arm fall off.
The critical factor opponents to touch screen always seem to overlook is that touch is not the ONLY method of interacting with the machine. The mouse and keyboard are still there. Touch just adds ANOTHER form of input, one that is often very useful.
500 million potential users who have iPhones but don't need the power of the MAC. They would feed into services via the iOS App Store.
Could easily do 9.7 inch in the polyCarbonate from the 5C for 299.
Then also premium based on the iPadPro starting at 899.
Some of the core design elements that make iOS so appealing also happen to be terrible for "serious" work. This includes the sandboxed and simplified file system, as well as the touch-oriented user interface which doesn't work well with a vertically positioned display or pointer based interactions via trackpad or mouse.
I struggle to imagine how these two key problems could be solved without a major redesign of the GUI and interaction model, so I disagree with Campbell's suggestion that this is likely to turn up in Apple's product line any time soon.
Agreed. Plus considering this would be made from machined aluminum instead of plastic, it would be very thick and heavy compared to a MacBook. I still believe in the notion that you should choose the best device for the task at hand rather than settling for an all-in-one product with lots of compromises.
How do you make iOS's file system as powerful and flexible as the one on macOS without degrading security and usability for less technical users? How do you deliver a rich and dense trackpad/mouse/cursor-based UI without sacrificing touch-based usability? Microsoft has spent an enormous amount of money and manpower tackling these problems without any success.
Apple's new files system runs on all Apple OSes: TVOS, watchOS, iOS macOS:
https://developer.apple.com/library/prerelease/content/documentation/FileManagement/Conceptual/APFS_Guide/Introduction/Introduction.html