PS. In fact USB-C (3.1) is starting to see wide adoption in the PC world. They are however, deeply conservative over there so they include micro-USB ports and USB-A ports still. That's why their notebooks are thick as bricks.
My big problem with the latest MBPs is not USB-C by itself but rather the other missing ports. Tthe lack of an SD port is perplexing to say the leats and frankly i still see a need for Ethernet. Now i understand that an Ethernet jack is bulky but what is the excuse fir the SD slot? More so what is with the SD slot causing the card to stick out the side if the machine?
I look at the SD slot as a versatile way to handle bulk files. It is still the standard for cameras which justifies the slot right there. Beyond that SD is a good expansion option when you run out of space on your main storage. It is highly suitable when fast isnt needed. Allso i use SD for critical backups that i dont want to only have on Time machine. Somethings must be backed up in multiple places.
If Apple gas any sense at all they will bring back SD and design it in properly. That means a design that doesnt leave the card hanging in air.
As for the soldered in SSD i dont have a huge problem with that. I know it means a more reliable machine. That diesnt mean that you ignore the need for expansion though. An SSD slot would be nice but frankly an SD slot is a passable substitute.
It comes back to the idea that Apple has lost touch with its users. Stirage expansion and management is a real issue fir most users. Why Apple punted here us beyond me.
Yep , I can understand switching Type A to type C ports, but Apple deserves to fall at least 3 places for removing the SD slot and MAGSAFE (one of the best things on Apple laptops)
There is no question in my mind that the reaction to last years MBP refresh is what finally caused Apple's Mac announcement last week. Also not surprising the announcement came around the time of Windows Creators update launching. I was listening to iMore's Apple Talk podcast this morning. One of the guys on the podcast - Michael Gartenberg - recently worked at Apple in Phil Schiller's org. The impressions I got from him were that Apple was definitely taken aback by the MBP criticism and that Microsoft taking share from Apple in the pro market is something Apple needs to be worrie about. The popular iOS software djay Pro was just ported to Windows and it's being shown off using the new Surface Studio. Whether Microsoft really has momentum or not it's clear they're going after creative pros and the perception out there is they're the one doing cool, innovative things and Apple is being conservative and predictable (thinner, lighter, more appliance like products). Surface Studio might be a completely niche product but it looks cool and no doubt got graphic designers and other artists excited.
Honestly I wonder if Apple's functional org design sometimes hurts them. If the Mac and iPad were stand alone business units and not sharing engineering resources with iPhone might these products get more attention and thus more innovation (on both hardware and software)? Oh and going back to iMore for a second, Rene Ritchie needs to stop with the resources excuse. Apple doesn't have that many product lines. If they don't have the resources to keep iPhone, iPad and Mac current then there's clearly something wrong organizationally or from an executive level priority standpoint.
Makes me wonder if the lack of enthusiasm for TouchBar has caused Apple to hold up the new MacBook based on KabyLake.
Tallest Ski, I love your shit.
At least we can all rest assured knowing that MS really DOES make the worst fucking laptops around - despite that jerk's every point seemingly blowing smoke up legacy's ass.
How about longevity, daily satisfaction, resaleability, and progressive implementation of technology? Or even an 'I just love touching/using this device-o-meter'?
I have the new MBP and I do think it's overpriced, but it's priced high largely due to the cost of SSD's. You cannot compare the costs of two machines when one has SSDs and one has traditional hard disks.
Do you realize that other laptops have SSDs as well?
it is claimed there is not as much "value and variety" as other vendors, offering "only a handful of laptops, and most start at $1,299."
And that somehow damages the brand?
"If you're looking for an affordable laptop, don't look at Apple,”
Just ignore that every study done in the last 20 years shows that they’re more affordable than PCs for what they offer (as a platform as a whole).
The report goes on to note that the MacBook Air hasn't received a refresh in "over two years," and that it "wouldn't be surprised if the company phased it out soon.”
Which… hurts the brand?
Apple is also criticized for not offering a 2-in-1 notebook or one with a touchscreen
No, no. You don’t get to downrank a company for what it doesn’t offer. If you do that, you have to downrank all PCs for lacking security, ease of use, and platform integration.
Editor in chief Mark Spoonauer suggests the decision to discontinue the 11-inch MacBook Air as the smallest notebook was poor
So buy a netbook from 2009, dipshit. Do you want a pocketable laptop or something?
"There's no touchpad on this machine's optional keyboard,"
No shit; it’s a tablet, dumbass. You whine about not having a touchscreen laptop and then whine when you CAN touch the screen that there’s no touchpad? Fuck yourself.
On the subject of USB Type-C, it is suggested on the scorecard that users need a “bagful of dongles” to use the newer MacBooks in the summary.
Oh, so just like the idiots whining in 1996, then.
For the 13 out of 15 score for design, Apple has been declared the “rose-gold standard,” due to the 12-inch MacBook's rose gold variant's existence, though the lack of other color options is noted.
Was Apple voted down when they only offered one color? If not, they need to be fucking sued.
Apple's support is also praised as the standard bearer for the industry, with easy-to-navigate support pages and helpful support agents, though with a lack of support via FaceBook.
This is a joke post, right? It’s just 9 days late, right? FUCKING RIGHT?!
tallest skil <-> Macalope Hmmmmmmmm....
Nah! The Macalope is tame. TS in his prime used to rip through trolls!
Apple should make all Macs with upgradable (not soldered) components like microprocessor and GPU, and mostly for RAM and SSD. Never using proprietary connectors but standard ones. Besides not charging 2 to 3 times more for the very same upgrade than resellers like Amazon (RAM, SSD, etc). That is really shocking for the richest company on planet Earth.
Or they could just do what they have been doing.
Realistically, proprietary connectors and custom made solutions will always be more efficient on cost / space / hear etc. depending on what they want to optimize for.
Same for soldered on - remember the good old time when your connectors got loose and you had to unscrew your devices just to plug in a cabe - that does not work with super thin, ultra portable laptops.
Just the connectors are a waste of space.
I would rather just buy a new device every 2 years, given that the resell value is rather high on 2 year old macs - the "upgrade" cost is not that high.
I returned a new 13" because when it was pushing all those pixels to the LG 5K the video performance and generally snappiness of the machine was disappointing (let alone rendering) - it just wasn't quick enough for an £1,800 laptop.
I'm on a 2016 MBP 15 now and can't fault the speed, it does everything I need for reasonably simple Photoshop, Illustrator and Premiere work. It was £2,500 though, so I'd expect it to be up to the job (and it is). I've even grown to really like the keyboard (still don't see what the toucher does better than a good knowledge of keyboard shortcuts).
USB-C isn't really causing a problem, I use Samsung T3 drives (which are excellent) and have had to buy a new card reader and a USB-C Ethernet adapter for the back of the LGs. That said, I really can't understand why Apple didn't make an Apple TB3 charging dock to go with it for around £200 - there is still no charging TB3 dock actually launched on the market that I'm aware of. If the external displays is Apple's answer, then I wish they'd asked LG to spec the 4k and 5k with USB, Ethernet and so on, and not just more USB C
My only real criticism is the ≈3.5 hours I'm getting from the battery, even with the screen around 75%. I really wish they'd built a thicker chassis for a higher capacity battery.
Apple needs to wake up: They take off the shelf components, soldier them into a non-upgradeable box, and then sell them for premium prices. There is simply no way (except for their ecosystem/infrastructure and software) for them to distinguish themselves...
Unfortunately, reviews such as this tend to discount that ecosystem and the OS, so Apple is downgraded...
Apple devotees whine and complain. But, think about it: on a strictly hardware basis, is Apple any better than Lenovo? Their components are the same, their build quality is the same -- but Lenovo offers a broader array of choices and price points -- plus an upgradeable open architecture with excellent documentation: at different times I have replaced the memory, hard drive, wireless modem and mother board (the old one couldn't swim) in my Thinkpad and the standard Lenovo documentation guided me through step by step, screw by screw... Game Over...
So perhaps Laptop Mag got more ads from PC manufacturers and vendors. Quid Pro Quo.
They've probably ALWAYS had more ads from PC vendors than Apple. They've also traditionally put Apple on top in their rankings so it's not as tho they're Apple haters.
Odd that so many posters are looking to blame the down-ranking simply on ads, payola or a sudden and unexplained dislike of Apple the corporation rather than looking at what might have changed in the overall laptop market and/or Apple's line of products in the past couple of years.
So perhaps Laptop Mag got more ads from PC manufacturers and vendors. Quid Pro Quo.
They've probably ALWAYS had more ads from PC vendors than Apple. They've also traditionally put Apple on top in their rankings so it's not as tho they're Apple haters.
Odd that so many posters are looking to blame the down-ranking simply on ads, payola or a sudden and unexplained dislike of Apple the corporation rather than looking at what might have changed in the overall laptop market and/or Apple's line of products in the past couple of years.
From reading the comments here, it appears, as is the case with me, that many have never been aware of Laptop Mag, and certainly not aware of their selection criteria. For us, it would be a gross mischaracterization to suggest we were okay with the ranking in prior years, as we weren't aware of those rankings. We're not taking issue with the turn of events but with the ridiculous factors applied to arrive at the magazine's rankings. One can only wonder whether those factors were modified from previous years. And if so, why and what were the factors in previous years?
There is no question in my mind that the reaction to last years MBP refresh is what finally caused Apple's Mac announcement last week. Also not surprising the announcement came around the time of Windows Creators update launching. I was listening to iMore's Apple Talk podcast this morning. One of the guys on the podcast - Michael Gartenberg - recently worked at Apple in Phil Schiller's org. The impressions I got from him were that Apple was definitely taken aback by the MBP criticism and that Microsoft taking share from Apple in the pro market is something Apple needs to be worrie about. The popular iOS software djay Pro was just ported to Windows and it's being shown off using the new Surface Studio. Whether Microsoft really has momentum or not it's clear they're going after creative pros and the perception out there is they're the one doing cool, innovative things and Apple is being conservative and predictable (thinner, lighter, more appliance like products). Surface Studio might be a completely niche product but it looks cool and no doubt got graphic designers and other artists excited.
Honestly I wonder if Apple's functional org design sometimes hurts them. If the Mac and iPad were stand alone business units and not sharing engineering resources with iPhone might these products get more attention and thus more innovation (on both hardware and software)? Oh and going back to iMore for a second, Rene Ritchie needs to stop with the resources excuse. Apple doesn't have that many product lines. If they don't have the resources to keep iPhone, iPad and Mac current then there's clearly something wrong organizationally or from an executive level priority standpoint.
Makes me wonder if the lack of enthusiasm for TouchBar has caused Apple to hold up the new MacBook based on KabyLake.
I don't think Apple has given up on the TouchBar (yet). But in general they need better evangelism when it comes to the Mac (and iPad). I can't remember the last time I saw a Mac or iPad commercial on TV. I see Surface and Windows 10 PC commercials on TV all the time. Apple had the shot on iPhone campaign a while back. Where is something similar for Mac or iPad? Where is the campaign showing all the creative things being done with iPad? And things anybody can do, not someone climbing to the top of a mountain holding an iPad in their hand. I think Apple has allowed Microsoft to get a foothold here and it's not good for Mac or iPad. And unless you're really invested in Final Cut or Logic do you have a reason to stay with the Mac? Yes for those who refuse to use Windows but my guess is that's a tiny percentage of the pro market.
Apple needs to wake up: They take off the shelf components, soldier them into a non-upgradeable box, and then sell them for premium prices. There is simply no way (except for their ecosystem/infrastructure and software) for them to distinguish themselves...
Unfortunately, reviews such as this tend to discount that ecosystem and the OS, so Apple is downgraded...
Apple devotees whine and complain. But, think about it: on a strictly hardware basis, is Apple any better than Lenovo? Their components are the same, their build quality is the same -- but Lenovo offers a broader array of choices and price points -- plus an upgradeable open architecture with excellent documentation: at different times I have replaced the memory, hard drive, wireless modem and mother board (the old one couldn't swim) in my Thinkpad and the standard Lenovo documentation guided me through step by step, screw by screw... Game Over...
I hope that you are making a ridiculous statement in order to make a point, rather than believe this...
In the latest MBP, Apple introduced a completely new set of own designed components in the Touch Bar and Touch ID. Apple has implemented their own SSD controller for the fastest SSD access on the market. Apple also drives the development of features into the components they purchase from suppliers - or do you think that Force Touch in the trackpads was something that a supplier brought to Apple's attention?
While Apple of course doesn't "design" most of the components which go into the Mac (they don't "make" any), they do use premium components. With latest MBP, they have largest trackpad w/Force Touch, very high end screen with wide colour, 4x Thunderbolt 3 ports. Apple always has some of, if not the, best battery life (certainly the only one which meets the advertised value).
Is the build quality of Apple better than Lenovo? I don't know. My experience with Mac's vs. Dell/HP/Lenovo at work is that Mac's are far superior. Personally my iMac is going on 9 years old, and my MBP is 6, and both going strong (one repair required but due to a defect which Apple covered). Resale values in general would say Mac's "age" well.
Apple isn't perfect, and has clearly made a mistake with the Mac Pro. With the latest MBP, it clearly didn't offer what many pros say they want w.r.t. ports and RAM, and the price increase is a sore point. They have work to do. However, to claim that Apple simply slaps stuff together and sells at a premium is hyperbole in the extreme...
So perhaps Laptop Mag got more ads from PC manufacturers and vendors. Quid Pro Quo.
They've probably ALWAYS had more ads from PC vendors than Apple. They've also traditionally put Apple on top in their rankings so it's not as tho they're Apple haters.
Odd that so many posters are looking to blame the down-ranking simply on ads, payola or a sudden and unexplained dislike of Apple the corporation rather than looking at what might have changed in the overall laptop market and/or Apple's line of products in the past couple of years.
From reading the comments here, it appears, as is the case with me, that many have never been aware of Laptop Mag, and certainly not aware of their selection criteria. For us, it would be a gross mischaracterization to suggest we were okay with the ranking in prior years, as we weren't aware of those rankings. We're not taking issue with the turn of events but with the ridiculous factors applied to arrive at the magazine's rankings. One can only wonder whether those factors were modified from previous years. And if so, why and what were the factors in previous years?
FWIW there's been no apparent change in the ranking criteria at Laptop Mag (a division of Tom's Guide) over the past few years. You can look for yourself to verify it. So what could account for the sudden deep drop? Among the factors is the category given the greatest weight: Reviews.
So perhaps Laptop Mag got more ads from PC manufacturers and vendors. Quid Pro Quo.
They've probably ALWAYS had more ads from PC vendors than Apple. They've also traditionally put Apple on top in their rankings so it's not as tho they're Apple haters.
Odd that so many posters are looking to blame the down-ranking simply on ads, payola or a sudden and unexplained dislike of Apple the corporation rather than looking at what might have changed in the overall laptop market and/or Apple's line of products in the past couple of years.
ROFL. I didn't even write Gatorguy bait on that post! ':
So perhaps Laptop Mag got more ads from PC manufacturers and vendors. Quid Pro Quo.
They've probably ALWAYS had more ads from PC vendors than Apple. They've also traditionally put Apple on top in their rankings so it's not as tho they're Apple haters.
Odd that so many posters are looking to blame the down-ranking simply on ads, payola or a sudden and unexplained dislike of Apple the corporation rather than looking at what might have changed in the overall laptop market and/or Apple's line of products in the past couple of years.
From reading the comments here, it appears, as is the case with me, that many have never been aware of Laptop Mag, and certainly not aware of their selection criteria. For us, it would be a gross mischaracterization to suggest we were okay with the ranking in prior years, as we weren't aware of those rankings. We're not taking issue with the turn of events but with the ridiculous factors applied to arrive at the magazine's rankings. One can only wonder whether those factors were modified from previous years. And if so, why and what were the factors in previous years?
FWIW there's been no apparent change in the ranking criteria at Laptop Mag (a division of Tom's Guide) over the past few years. You can look for yourself to verify it. So what could account for the sudden deep drop? Among the factors is the category given the greatest weight: Reviews.
I did. Here is something I posted on another thread.
I agree that Apple needs to do some more listening, but from what I read in that article some of the marking criteria seem downright odd and arbitrary (and clearly were not used in past when Apple was ranked higher, like having a 2-in-1 or touch screen). There is too much material to provide into one post, but I have linked to parts of the article for those looking for more.
For top spot Lenovo, outside of a few "2-in-1" / foldable units (quite expensive starting points), their products look like any PC laptop over the last 20 years (dark grey plastic, large bezels, stickers, etc). However, they were awarded a 14/15 in design. Apple was given a 13. Their innovations were touted as longer battery life (courtesy of a larger battery) and the rest to the Yoga Book. Which is a 2-in-1 which has a "halo keyboard" that allows stylus input - the keyboard is completely flat and operates like a touch screen keyboard. However, in the review it states that you can't really type well on it. In other words - a bit of a gimmick with potentially very limited market. However, they received a 10/10 in innovation. Apple a 7. Best Lenovo Laptops
The broad areas where Apple was "dinged" were covered in the article, and there is certainly merit to some of them. However, I think the big thing is that Apple was not given "credit" for what was new. TB3 has amazing speed and versatility, but MBP was only "dinged" for the lack of connector options. Apple has the fastest SSD read/write out there, but no mention of this. It was "dinged" in a review for not having the Kaby Lake processors, even though this was not available when the products were introduced, and no mention of how the faster storage makes the system fly. No credit at all for the great sound, and reduced fan noise. It is dinged very heavily for lack of price range, but is having a sub-$500 notebook really affecting what someone who is looking for a MBP wants? See Apple's Full Report Card
It is hard to read the Laptop Mag report without seeing that they were capitalizing on the MBP "controversy" from 2016. Simply read the language (oh how the mighty have fallen...)
Apple really pushed the boundaries with the 2016 MBP, trying to push it forward on the ports, new UI input, form factor. But it was jarring for many, and the price bump greatly aggravated it. Hopefully Apple takes 2017 to make some needed incremental improvements, reduce the price a bit (or offer more range).
So perhaps Laptop Mag got more ads from PC manufacturers and vendors. Quid Pro Quo.
They've probably ALWAYS had more ads from PC vendors than Apple. They've also traditionally put Apple on top in their rankings so it's not as tho they're Apple haters.
Odd that so many posters are looking to blame the down-ranking simply on ads, payola or a sudden and unexplained dislike of Apple the corporation rather than looking at what might have changed in the overall laptop market and/or Apple's line of products in the past couple of years.
ROFL. I didn't even write Gatorguy bait on that post! ':
I find the survey results to be both disappointing and not terribly surprising. The proof will be in the sales pudding, which seemed just fine during the holiday quarter. We'll see how it goes. If there's been a crack in the armor, it's in Apple's admission last week that they misjudged the pro market, both in desktops and laptops. This survey may be reflective of that.
Wait, where did Apple say anything about pro notebooks?
Comments
(one of the best things on Apple laptops)
Whatever.
Nah! The Macalope is tame. TS in his prime used to rip through trolls!
I'm on a 2016 MBP 15 now and can't fault the speed, it does everything I need for reasonably simple Photoshop, Illustrator and Premiere work. It was £2,500 though, so I'd expect it to be up to the job (and it is). I've even grown to really like the keyboard (still don't see what the toucher does better than a good knowledge of keyboard shortcuts).
USB-C isn't really causing a problem, I use Samsung T3 drives (which are excellent) and have had to buy a new card reader and a USB-C Ethernet adapter for the back of the LGs. That said, I really can't understand why Apple didn't make an Apple TB3 charging dock to go with it for around £200 - there is still no charging TB3 dock actually launched on the market that I'm aware of. If the external displays is Apple's answer, then I wish they'd asked LG to spec the 4k and 5k with USB, Ethernet and so on, and not just more USB C
My only real criticism is the ≈3.5 hours I'm getting from the battery, even with the screen around 75%. I really wish they'd built a thicker chassis for a higher capacity battery.
Unfortunately, reviews such as this tend to discount that ecosystem and the OS, so Apple is downgraded...
Apple devotees whine and complain. But, think about it: on a strictly hardware basis, is Apple any better than Lenovo? Their components are the same, their build quality is the same -- but Lenovo offers a broader array of choices and price points -- plus an upgradeable open architecture with excellent documentation: at different times I have replaced the memory, hard drive, wireless modem and mother board (the old one couldn't swim) in my Thinkpad and the standard Lenovo documentation guided me through step by step, screw by screw... Game Over...
Odd that so many posters are looking to blame the down-ranking simply on ads, payola or a sudden and unexplained dislike of Apple the corporation rather than looking at what might have changed in the overall laptop market and/or Apple's line of products in the past couple of years.
In the latest MBP, Apple introduced a completely new set of own designed components in the Touch Bar and Touch ID. Apple has implemented their own SSD controller for the fastest SSD access on the market. Apple also drives the development of features into the components they purchase from suppliers - or do you think that Force Touch in the trackpads was something that a supplier brought to Apple's attention?
While Apple of course doesn't "design" most of the components which go into the Mac (they don't "make" any), they do use premium components. With latest MBP, they have largest trackpad w/Force Touch, very high end screen with wide colour, 4x Thunderbolt 3 ports. Apple always has some of, if not the, best battery life (certainly the only one which meets the advertised value).
Is the build quality of Apple better than Lenovo? I don't know. My experience with Mac's vs. Dell/HP/Lenovo at work is that Mac's are far superior. Personally my iMac is going on 9 years old, and my MBP is 6, and both going strong (one repair required but due to a defect which Apple covered). Resale values in general would say Mac's "age" well.
Apple isn't perfect, and has clearly made a mistake with the Mac Pro. With the latest MBP, it clearly didn't offer what many pros say they want w.r.t. ports and RAM, and the price increase is a sore point. They have work to do. However, to claim that Apple simply slaps stuff together and sells at a premium is hyperbole in the extreme...
http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/laptop-brand-ratings
FWIW there's been no apparent change in the ranking criteria at Laptop Mag (a division of Tom's Guide) over the past few years. You can look for yourself to verify it. So what could account for the sudden deep drop? Among the factors is the category given the greatest weight: Reviews.
For more in-depth explanation of Apple's scoring this year:
http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/apple-brand-rating
I agree that Apple needs to do some more listening, but from what I read in that article some of the marking criteria seem downright odd and arbitrary (and clearly were not used in past when Apple was ranked higher, like having a 2-in-1 or touch screen). There is too much material to provide into one post, but I have linked to parts of the article for those looking for more.
For top spot Lenovo, outside of a few "2-in-1" / foldable units (quite expensive starting points), their products look like any PC laptop over the last 20 years (dark grey plastic, large bezels, stickers, etc). However, they were awarded a 14/15 in design. Apple was given a 13. Their innovations were touted as longer battery life (courtesy of a larger battery) and the rest to the Yoga Book. Which is a 2-in-1 which has a "halo keyboard" that allows stylus input - the keyboard is completely flat and operates like a touch screen keyboard. However, in the review it states that you can't really type well on it. In other words - a bit of a gimmick with potentially very limited market. However, they received a 10/10 in innovation. Apple a 7.
Best Lenovo Laptops
The broad areas where Apple was "dinged" were covered in the article, and there is certainly merit to some of them. However, I think the big thing is that Apple was not given "credit" for what was new. TB3 has amazing speed and versatility, but MBP was only "dinged" for the lack of connector options. Apple has the fastest SSD read/write out there, but no mention of this. It was "dinged" in a review for not having the Kaby Lake processors, even though this was not available when the products were introduced, and no mention of how the faster storage makes the system fly. No credit at all for the great sound, and reduced fan noise. It is dinged very heavily for lack of price range, but is having a sub-$500 notebook really affecting what someone who is looking for a MBP wants?
See Apple's Full Report Card
It is hard to read the Laptop Mag report without seeing that they were capitalizing on the MBP "controversy" from 2016. Simply read the language (oh how the mighty have fallen...)
Apple really pushed the boundaries with the 2016 MBP, trying to push it forward on the ports, new UI input, form factor. But it was jarring for many, and the price bump greatly aggravated it. Hopefully Apple takes 2017 to make some needed incremental improvements, reduce the price a bit (or offer more range).