Thanks for explanation, I kind of guessed that's what you meant but wanted to be sure it wasn't a curtain / decorators term lol. I've personally not come across it in Mac context and I was CEO of a Mac Software company for quite a few years. I honestly never heard the term used once in Mac programming circles I frequented. Is that a term common to the MS world I wonder? All those samples on Wikipedia seemed like old Windoze shots.