OK - let's leave it at that. We are going in circles here. Your position is misinformed and illogical in my opinion, and you are stating the same opinion of my position. Scientists, I can argue with. You, metaphorically, are speaking a different language. And if we can't even agree on what the survey papers claim to show, then we have little chance of making progress on the actual subject of discussion. We'll find out one way or the other, sooner or later.