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There is a lot more to offering a "very good" 4K streaming capability than ability to output a 4K resolution. Just because it is technically possible to output 2160p doesn't mean the h/w could do 4K streaming services, requiring features like
- HDMI 2.0
- HDCP 2.2
- Next generation codec (e.g. HEVC/H.265) to enable a high quality stream to be delivered at a bitrate that reasonable for a large number of broadband connections (a good quality 1080p@60fps stream encoded with H.264 takes about 10Mbps - 4K would be about 4 times that). To get to sub 20Mbps with a high quality 4K@60fps takes the next generation codecs. The royalty issues here have not yet been fully addressed, but maybe enough for Apple to take the plunge.
So, doing "4K right" is a big h/w feature set. One would assume that this means updated SoC and related internals, and perhaps more storage at each tier to support 4K graphics games.
Other than an updated Siri Remote (which I agree with - and why not something cool like induction charging on top of ATV with magnetic attachment ala Apple Watch style...), what other features are people wanting, given that this device is clearly not going to be a cable/satellite STB, not contain a HDD for recording live OTA TV, etc?
sog35 said:robertwalter said:All time high?
Did time begin last year?
Because I seem to remember a high around 134 and 1/2. About two years ago.
$700 billion is impressive. But if you take out Net Cash its actually worth less than Google.
Of course, one is doing it with a P/E of 16, and the other a P/E of 30...(P/E's not calculated excluding cash).
I was going to respond to one of the trolls there, but seems post was removed.Anyhow, if you want to compare profitability, then based on a Forbes view from mid 2016 (based on 2015 year results):
- Apple: $233B in sales, $53.7B in profits
- Samsung Electronics: $177B in sales, $16.5B in profits (this is of course the year before the Note 7 debacle).
Apple is the most profitable company in the world by total absolute profits (when looking at a single company - Vodafone Group based in the UK with controlling stake in dozens of telecommunications companies - if you consider the profits from all Vodafone operating companies around the globe with VF Group then it is the largest, and Apple is #2 in this case).
For comparison, in 2015 Google (Alphabet) had $16.3B in net profit. Facebook at $3.6B profit in 2015. Both of those businesses of course are growing faster than Apple, but the growth rates are slowing down.
Apple is the big dog on the block, but to listen to most of the media-blog-o-sphere, you would think they are getting kicked by just about anyone that walks by...
In comments during an investor conference call on Tuesday, CFO Luca Maestri said sales were higher than expected, noting iPad captured 85 percent of the market for tablets costing more than $200. The company's earnings release further touted satisfaction and business adoption in a subsequent conference call.
gatorguy said:jungmark said:Odd. Haven't these analyst been saying the new MacBook Pros are failures? The watch isn't a hit? iPhone orders are being cut left and right?
Wall Street gets the criticism regarding how they value Apple relative to almost every other company. Apple's PE ratio a short time ago was in the single digits ex-cash (it is probably about 10 now), whereas the S&P 500 average PE is about 17-18. Proctor and Gamble, the number one consumer staples company (a hot bed of innovation:) has a PE of 15-16. Walmart has a PE of 14-15. These companies sales growth rate over the last 5 years (or even last 2-3) have not been as high as Apple's, and yet they are valued much higher.
Given Apple's return of capital (buybacks and dividends), and a PE of 10 (ex-cash), Apple is being valued as though it will be gone in a little over decade. Not as though they are the premium consumer tech company which is growing sales, maintaining margins, building a product-attached-services business, and introducing new product categories which have some reasonable growth potential.
If Apple was valued like Walmart, they would be a trillion dollar company. Which, as per Horace Dediu, is about what iOS devices have generated as an ecosystem for Apple since the iPhone was introduced.