I think people here are missing the point. Corning is at the CES to accomplish two things - network with device manufacturers and create an impression with consumers.
With respect to the second objective, one should bear in mind that consumers do not buy gorilla glass. We buy devices. But if Corning gets their brand name in our heads enough, device manufacturers may be compelled that they have to use the same glass, or risk having their products deemed second-class. Stress test demos like glass bending with steel balls are all about creating an impression. We can all swear up and down we are too smart to fall for it. But history suggests that effective branding is as important as product development.
You would have thought with all the blather on AI recently about how awesome the Apple TV will be, that AI might have mentioned the 55" OLED TV's announced by Samsung and LG. Instead we get an irrelevant article about a very minor item of significance compared to other things revealed at CES
My iPhone 4 fell 3 feet from my pocket and the screen completely shattered. My iPhone 4S screen came in contact with my keys in my pocket and now has a permanent scratch across it. In real-world conditions Gorilla Glass is extremely fragile. All these claims of strength are a bunch of B.S.
Gorilla glass is stated to be approximately 6.8 on the Mohs scale which puts it just under quartz (7.0) in terms of hardness. Which means that only items in your pockets harder than 6.8 Mohs could scratch the surface. Keys are normally cut from brass. Brass is only 5.5-6.0 on the Mohs scale. Tool steel (like files, chisels and the like) can be hardened to 7 or higher on the Mohs scale, which would scratch Gorilla glass. I can, and have, run the tip of my house key back and forth across the face of my iPhone countless times, pressing fairly hard - and it has never scratched. I carry my iPhone in my pocket with keys and pens all the time and have not had a single scratch. Whatever it was in your pocket (pocket knife, emery board, gravel, diamond stylus) besides your keys was what scratched it - not your keys.
And no, in real world application Gorilla glass is not "extremely fragile". I have cracked plastic screens at less than 3 feet dropping, I have shattered crystal glasses, lightbulbs and eggs at that height, but not my iPhone. If you are drop prone, any device should be protected by a case. It sounds like your iPhone struck on one of the corners without protection, which of course concentrates the force into a very small contact point and would result in the screen shattering due to the forces passing through the material. Or it is possible that there was a flaw in the material not caught in QA coming off the production line. I have taken the back panel of an iPhone 4 and bent it double before it snapped in two.
6 years ago it was Apple who pulled Corning execs into a meeting which led to bringing a shelved technology back to life and Gorilla glass entry into the market.
People swear that competition is the best way to spur innovation –*but as with so many things Apple does this was another example of Apple going the extra mile to spur innovation in the absence of competition. And now there's an entire market/company/workforce to show for it.
6 years ago it was Apple who pulled Corning execs into a meeting which led to bringing a shelved technology back to life and Gorilla glass entry into the market.
People swear that competition is the best way to spur innovation –*but as with so many things Apple does this was another example of Apple going the extra mile to spur innovation in the absence of competition. And now there's an entire market/company/workforce to show for it.
THANK-YOU! I can't wait for those that claim that competition is best spur for innovation to learn the difference between innovation and evolution. The ONLY time competition is a spur to innovation, is in the absence of innovation itself. Innovation is a cultural norm for Apple, which is why it is Apple, time and again that innovates and the rest of industry rushes in to follow.
Note also I said "innovate" not invent. Apple has seldom invented anything. But they have combined, recombined, refined and reapplied concepts and technologies into final designs that have disrupted the marketplace. That's innovation. Adding features, switching materials, making screens bigger, etc., that's evolution or development, not innovation.
My iPhone 4 fell 3 feet from my pocket and the screen completely shattered. My iPhone 4S screen came in contact with my keys in my pocket and now has a permanent scratch across it. In real-world conditions Gorilla Glass is extremely fragile. All these claims of strength are a bunch of B.S.
umm.....don't put your keys in the same pocket as your phone. Even my slate floor in my entryway will scratch if I took a key and etched the stone. Gorilla glass isn't diamond, but that doesn't make it fragile. Everyone should know that you don't put your keys in the same pocket as your phone, just like you don't throw rocks at your iPhone. I've had three iPhones now and I don't use a case and I don't have any significant scratches on any of my phones.
Gorilla glass is stated to be approximately 6.8 on the Mohs scale which puts it just under quartz (7.0) in terms of hardness. Which means that only items in your pockets harder than 6.8 Mohs could scratch the surface. Keys are normally cut from brass. Brass is only 5.5-6.0 on the Mohs scale. Tool steel (like files, chisels and the like) can be hardened to 7 or higher on the Mohs scale, which would scratch Gorilla glass. I can, and have, run the tip of my house key back and forth across the face of my iPhone countless times, pressing fairly hard - and it has never scratched. I carry my iPhone in my pocket with keys and pens all the time and have not had a single scratch. Whatever it was in your pocket (pocket knife, emery board, gravel, diamond stylus) besides your keys was what scratched it - not your keys.
And no, in real world application Gorilla glass is not "extremely fragile". I have cracked plastic screens at less than 3 feet dropping, I have shattered crystal glasses, lightbulbs and eggs at that height, but not my iPhone. If you are drop prone, any device should be protected by a case. It sounds like your iPhone struck on one of the corners without protection, which of course concentrates the force into a very small contact point and would result in the screen shattering due to the forces passing through the material. Or it is possible that there was a flaw in the material not caught in QA coming off the production line. I have taken the back panel of an iPhone 4 and bent it double before it snapped in two.
You raise an interesting point. Can a material with a hardens of 6 scratch a material with a hardness of 7? I had to pause and think about this. However, I think it can. It depends on several different factors like the geometry of the contact surfaces and the force applied. An easy example that shows you don't have to have a harder material to etch a surface is the fact that steel can be cut with a high pressure water stream. Water has a hardness of 0 on the mohs scale.
I think people here are missing the point. Corning is at the CES to accomplish two things - network with device manufacturers and create an impression with consumers.
With respect to the second objective, one should bear in mind that consumers do not buy gorilla glass. We buy devices. But if Corning gets their brand name in our heads enough, device manufacturers may be compelled that they have to use the same glass, or risk having their products deemed second-class. Stress test demos like glass bending with steel balls are all about creating an impression. We can all swear up and down we are too smart to fall for it. But history suggests that effective branding is as important as product development.
Sure, they are doing what Intel does It's smart.
I wonder how much Corning has profited by Apple's getting them to dig up this 50yo tech? Hasn't Apple also helped other companies pull shelved tech into production they thought had no potential customers?
I think people here are missing the point. Corning is at the CES to accomplish two things - network with device manufacturers and create an impression with consumers.
With respect to the second objective, one should bear in mind that consumers do not buy gorilla glass. We buy devices. But if Corning gets their brand name in our heads enough, device manufacturers may be compelled that they have to use the same glass, or risk having their products deemed second-class. Stress test demos like glass bending with steel balls are all about creating an impression. We can all swear up and down we are too smart to fall for it. But history suggests that effective branding is as important as product development.
Exactly. And that is also why Corning is catering to the "PC crowd" by saying they will be the first laptops to get Gorilla Glass. I'm sure the reference to laptops isn't a coincidence. This probably has to do with the fact that new Apple laptops are scheduled to ship until after the PC laptops. My guess is the new iPad will be the first product to have Gorilla Glass 2. However, it wouldn't make any sense for Corning to tout that at CES.
I wonder how much Corning has profited by Apple's getting them to dig up this 50yo tech? Hasn't Apple also helped other companies pull shelved tech into production they thought had no potential customers?
Of course there are many companies that have profited greatly from Apple's success. Any good business person knows that you have to leave something on the table for someone else if you want to get business done. However, Apple's negotiating position is why Apple makes a lot more money than any of its partners.
At the top of the list of customers who use.......
"Due to customer agreements, we cannot identify all devices that feature Gorilla Glass. Your favorite device may include Gorilla Glass, even if you don't see it listed. Ask your manufacturer or retailer to learn more."
All this technology and the glass still scratches easily. Keys & coins in pocket do it. Of course they're hairline scratches but it is annoying when this tech is advertised as "better than the previous" when it's not. Doesn't matter if it can withstand 5,000 lbs of pressure/force - it doesn't mean shit if it still scratches easily.
Gorilla glass is stated to be approximately 6.8 on the Mohs scale which puts it just under quartz (7.0) in terms of hardness. Which means that only items in your pockets harder than 6.8 Mohs could scratch the surface. Keys are normally cut from brass. Brass is only 5.5-6.0 on the Mohs scale. Tool steel (like files, chisels and the like) can be hardened to 7 or higher on the Mohs scale, which would scratch Gorilla glass. I can, and have, run the tip of my house key back and forth across the face of my iPhone countless times, pressing fairly hard - and it has never scratched. I carry my iPhone in my pocket with keys and pens all the time and have not had a single scratch. Whatever it was in your pocket (pocket knife, emery board, gravel, diamond stylus) besides your keys was what scratched it - not your keys.
That was my experience until one day I found a significant scratch on the front of my IP4. Never did figure out what it might have come into contact with to do that. Unless it was my BlackBerry...
I suspect Gorilla Glass 2 has a lot more to do with patenting than being significantly better. The original 'Gorilla Glass' is from 1960s and its patent is long gone. It is a free technology.
To protect themselves from that, companies usually come up with improved versions of the product which is patented. So, Gorilla Glass 2 would have been patented now, and so the patent will last them for the next 20-30yrs.
I suspect the improvements are not as great as they are touting.
You raise an interesting point. Can a material with a hardens of 6 scratch a material with a hardness of 7? I had to pause and think about this. However, I think it can. It depends on several different factors like the geometry of the contact surfaces and the force applied. An easy example that shows you don't have to have a harder material to etch a surface is the fact that steel can be cut with a high pressure water stream. Water has a hardness of 0 on the mohs scale.
Good observation, but different process. Water jet cutting is hydrodynamic, allowing forces in excess of the yield strength of the target material to develop at the stagnation point. It depends entirely on density and mass flux per unit area, and is independent of the hardness of the working fluid.
There's something else behind that "public" number. Like sales claims that use language like "four times less than the leading competitor!" 121 psi? 121 lbs on that shiny metal display they have in the shot? Well, no - the test video on Gizmodo shows a rig - probably some sort of standard - with a defined probe trying to push through a defined disc of glass with with a (70's throwback wood-grained red-LED-segment display) force sensor. Still pretty tough stuff, their demo really shows that it's 20% thinner with the same strength. I'd continue to avoid back pocket storage, if only to not have to explain it to the medical professionals who will have to attend any wounds. The deflection demo with the steel balls is impressive for a piece of glass to bend without breaking.
Try this. drop an iphone on asphalt/concrete from 1 meter. Ok it _might survive_. Now drop it on either side on a rhine gravel road, eg. 16-32mm grainsize. It will allmost 100% shure kill the glass guaranteed!! Or just the pavement edge or some other unregular piece of tough metal thats on the floor etc,. you get the picture. I dont care about bending i care about there wouldnt be glass on the backside or past the edges. I might use my iphone without a silicone skin for once.
umm.....don't put your keys in the same pocket as your phone. Even my slate floor in my entryway will scratch if I took a key and etched the stone. Gorilla glass isn't diamond, but that doesn't make it fragile. Everyone should know that you don't put your keys in the same pocket as your phone, just like you don't throw rocks at your iPhone. I've had three iPhones now and I don't use a case and I don't have any significant scratches on any of my phones.
I must say you have a grip of steal if you have never dropped it on any hard surface. Now with iphone 4 and 4S its about 70% easier to crack the screen glass or the back glass than 3G/3GS was because of the design... No I havent dropped my iphone 4 without my silicone on but those that buy it as their first iphone maybe shocked if their not told about the fact.
Comments
.
With respect to the second objective, one should bear in mind that consumers do not buy gorilla glass. We buy devices. But if Corning gets their brand name in our heads enough, device manufacturers may be compelled that they have to use the same glass, or risk having their products deemed second-class. Stress test demos like glass bending with steel balls are all about creating an impression. We can all swear up and down we are too smart to fall for it. But history suggests that effective branding is as important as product development.
When I review journal articles for publication,..
I am surprised he didn't see that coming.
You would have thought with all the blather on AI recently about how awesome the Apple TV will be, that AI might have mentioned the 55" OLED TV's announced by Samsung and LG. Instead we get an irrelevant article about a very minor item of significance compared to other things revealed at CES
My iPhone 4 fell 3 feet from my pocket and the screen completely shattered. My iPhone 4S screen came in contact with my keys in my pocket and now has a permanent scratch across it. In real-world conditions Gorilla Glass is extremely fragile. All these claims of strength are a bunch of B.S.
Gorilla glass is stated to be approximately 6.8 on the Mohs scale which puts it just under quartz (7.0) in terms of hardness. Which means that only items in your pockets harder than 6.8 Mohs could scratch the surface. Keys are normally cut from brass. Brass is only 5.5-6.0 on the Mohs scale. Tool steel (like files, chisels and the like) can be hardened to 7 or higher on the Mohs scale, which would scratch Gorilla glass. I can, and have, run the tip of my house key back and forth across the face of my iPhone countless times, pressing fairly hard - and it has never scratched. I carry my iPhone in my pocket with keys and pens all the time and have not had a single scratch. Whatever it was in your pocket (pocket knife, emery board, gravel, diamond stylus) besides your keys was what scratched it - not your keys.
And no, in real world application Gorilla glass is not "extremely fragile". I have cracked plastic screens at less than 3 feet dropping, I have shattered crystal glasses, lightbulbs and eggs at that height, but not my iPhone. If you are drop prone, any device should be protected by a case. It sounds like your iPhone struck on one of the corners without protection, which of course concentrates the force into a very small contact point and would result in the screen shattering due to the forces passing through the material. Or it is possible that there was a flaw in the material not caught in QA coming off the production line. I have taken the back panel of an iPhone 4 and bent it double before it snapped in two.
People swear that competition is the best way to spur innovation –*but as with so many things Apple does this was another example of Apple going the extra mile to spur innovation in the absence of competition. And now there's an entire market/company/workforce to show for it.
6 years ago it was Apple who pulled Corning execs into a meeting which led to bringing a shelved technology back to life and Gorilla glass entry into the market.
People swear that competition is the best way to spur innovation –*but as with so many things Apple does this was another example of Apple going the extra mile to spur innovation in the absence of competition. And now there's an entire market/company/workforce to show for it.
THANK-YOU! I can't wait for those that claim that competition is best spur for innovation to learn the difference between innovation and evolution. The ONLY time competition is a spur to innovation, is in the absence of innovation itself. Innovation is a cultural norm for Apple, which is why it is Apple, time and again that innovates and the rest of industry rushes in to follow.
Note also I said "innovate" not invent. Apple has seldom invented anything. But they have combined, recombined, refined and reapplied concepts and technologies into final designs that have disrupted the marketplace. That's innovation. Adding features, switching materials, making screens bigger, etc., that's evolution or development, not innovation.
My iPhone 4 fell 3 feet from my pocket and the screen completely shattered. My iPhone 4S screen came in contact with my keys in my pocket and now has a permanent scratch across it. In real-world conditions Gorilla Glass is extremely fragile. All these claims of strength are a bunch of B.S.
umm.....don't put your keys in the same pocket as your phone. Even my slate floor in my entryway will scratch if I took a key and etched the stone. Gorilla glass isn't diamond, but that doesn't make it fragile. Everyone should know that you don't put your keys in the same pocket as your phone, just like you don't throw rocks at your iPhone. I've had three iPhones now and I don't use a case and I don't have any significant scratches on any of my phones.
Gorilla glass is stated to be approximately 6.8 on the Mohs scale which puts it just under quartz (7.0) in terms of hardness. Which means that only items in your pockets harder than 6.8 Mohs could scratch the surface. Keys are normally cut from brass. Brass is only 5.5-6.0 on the Mohs scale. Tool steel (like files, chisels and the like) can be hardened to 7 or higher on the Mohs scale, which would scratch Gorilla glass. I can, and have, run the tip of my house key back and forth across the face of my iPhone countless times, pressing fairly hard - and it has never scratched. I carry my iPhone in my pocket with keys and pens all the time and have not had a single scratch. Whatever it was in your pocket (pocket knife, emery board, gravel, diamond stylus) besides your keys was what scratched it - not your keys.
And no, in real world application Gorilla glass is not "extremely fragile". I have cracked plastic screens at less than 3 feet dropping, I have shattered crystal glasses, lightbulbs and eggs at that height, but not my iPhone. If you are drop prone, any device should be protected by a case. It sounds like your iPhone struck on one of the corners without protection, which of course concentrates the force into a very small contact point and would result in the screen shattering due to the forces passing through the material. Or it is possible that there was a flaw in the material not caught in QA coming off the production line. I have taken the back panel of an iPhone 4 and bent it double before it snapped in two.
You raise an interesting point. Can a material with a hardens of 6 scratch a material with a hardness of 7? I had to pause and think about this. However, I think it can. It depends on several different factors like the geometry of the contact surfaces and the force applied. An easy example that shows you don't have to have a harder material to etch a surface is the fact that steel can be cut with a high pressure water stream. Water has a hardness of 0 on the mohs scale.
I think people here are missing the point. Corning is at the CES to accomplish two things - network with device manufacturers and create an impression with consumers.
With respect to the second objective, one should bear in mind that consumers do not buy gorilla glass. We buy devices. But if Corning gets their brand name in our heads enough, device manufacturers may be compelled that they have to use the same glass, or risk having their products deemed second-class. Stress test demos like glass bending with steel balls are all about creating an impression. We can all swear up and down we are too smart to fall for it. But history suggests that effective branding is as important as product development.
Sure, they are doing what Intel does It's smart.
I wonder how much Corning has profited by Apple's getting them to dig up this 50yo tech? Hasn't Apple also helped other companies pull shelved tech into production they thought had no potential customers?
I think people here are missing the point. Corning is at the CES to accomplish two things - network with device manufacturers and create an impression with consumers.
With respect to the second objective, one should bear in mind that consumers do not buy gorilla glass. We buy devices. But if Corning gets their brand name in our heads enough, device manufacturers may be compelled that they have to use the same glass, or risk having their products deemed second-class. Stress test demos like glass bending with steel balls are all about creating an impression. We can all swear up and down we are too smart to fall for it. But history suggests that effective branding is as important as product development.
Exactly. And that is also why Corning is catering to the "PC crowd" by saying they will be the first laptops to get Gorilla Glass. I'm sure the reference to laptops isn't a coincidence. This probably has to do with the fact that new Apple laptops are scheduled to ship until after the PC laptops. My guess is the new iPad will be the first product to have Gorilla Glass 2. However, it wouldn't make any sense for Corning to tout that at CES.
Sure, they are doing what Intel does It's smart.
I wonder how much Corning has profited by Apple's getting them to dig up this 50yo tech? Hasn't Apple also helped other companies pull shelved tech into production they thought had no potential customers?
Of course there are many companies that have profited greatly from Apple's success. Any good business person knows that you have to leave something on the table for someone else if you want to get business done. However, Apple's negotiating position is why Apple makes a lot more money than any of its partners.
Why does Corning not mention Apple as one of its customers ?
http://www.corninggorillaglass.com/featured-products
At the top of the list of customers who use.......
"Due to customer agreements, we cannot identify all devices that feature Gorilla Glass. Your favorite device may include Gorilla Glass, even if you don't see it listed. Ask your manufacturer or retailer to learn more."
Gorilla glass is stated to be approximately 6.8 on the Mohs scale which puts it just under quartz (7.0) in terms of hardness. Which means that only items in your pockets harder than 6.8 Mohs could scratch the surface. Keys are normally cut from brass. Brass is only 5.5-6.0 on the Mohs scale. Tool steel (like files, chisels and the like) can be hardened to 7 or higher on the Mohs scale, which would scratch Gorilla glass. I can, and have, run the tip of my house key back and forth across the face of my iPhone countless times, pressing fairly hard - and it has never scratched. I carry my iPhone in my pocket with keys and pens all the time and have not had a single scratch. Whatever it was in your pocket (pocket knife, emery board, gravel, diamond stylus) besides your keys was what scratched it - not your keys.
That was my experience until one day I found a significant scratch on the front of my IP4. Never did figure out what it might have come into contact with to do that. Unless it was my BlackBerry...
To protect themselves from that, companies usually come up with improved versions of the product which is patented. So, Gorilla Glass 2 would have been patented now, and so the patent will last them for the next 20-30yrs.
I suspect the improvements are not as great as they are touting.
Which one of you guys arguing about pounds/force/mass is named Karl?
.
Point taken. We have stopped arguing. Don't go around suggesting that I'm an engineer though.
You raise an interesting point. Can a material with a hardens of 6 scratch a material with a hardness of 7? I had to pause and think about this. However, I think it can. It depends on several different factors like the geometry of the contact surfaces and the force applied. An easy example that shows you don't have to have a harder material to etch a surface is the fact that steel can be cut with a high pressure water stream. Water has a hardness of 0 on the mohs scale.
Good observation, but different process. Water jet cutting is hydrodynamic, allowing forces in excess of the yield strength of the target material to develop at the stagnation point. It depends entirely on density and mass flux per unit area, and is independent of the hardness of the working fluid.
There's something else behind that "public" number. Like sales claims that use language like "four times less than the leading competitor!" 121 psi? 121 lbs on that shiny metal display they have in the shot? Well, no - the test video on Gizmodo shows a rig - probably some sort of standard - with a defined probe trying to push through a defined disc of glass with with a (70's throwback wood-grained red-LED-segment display) force sensor. Still pretty tough stuff, their demo really shows that it's 20% thinner with the same strength. I'd continue to avoid back pocket storage, if only to not have to explain it to the medical professionals who will have to attend any wounds. The deflection demo with the steel balls is impressive for a piece of glass to bend without breaking.
Try this. drop an iphone on asphalt/concrete from 1 meter. Ok it _might survive_. Now drop it on either side on a rhine gravel road, eg. 16-32mm grainsize. It will allmost 100% shure kill the glass guaranteed!! Or just the pavement edge or some other unregular piece of tough metal thats on the floor etc,. you get the picture. I dont care about bending i care about there wouldnt be glass on the backside or past the edges. I might use my iphone without a silicone skin for once.
umm.....don't put your keys in the same pocket as your phone. Even my slate floor in my entryway will scratch if I took a key and etched the stone. Gorilla glass isn't diamond, but that doesn't make it fragile. Everyone should know that you don't put your keys in the same pocket as your phone, just like you don't throw rocks at your iPhone. I've had three iPhones now and I don't use a case and I don't have any significant scratches on any of my phones.
I must say you have a grip of steal if you have never dropped it on any hard surface. Now with iphone 4 and 4S its about 70% easier to crack the screen glass or the back glass than 3G/3GS was because of the design... No I havent dropped my iphone 4 without my silicone on but those that buy it as their first iphone maybe shocked if their not told about the fact.