Exclusive look at Apple's new iPod touch-based EasyPay checkout

[hillstones]

Originally Posted by m2002brian

You guys are funny. No information is stored on the device. It's an internet only app, like the youtube app. It's no different than you or I making a purchase, with a credit card, on Safari, on an iPod touch.

How do you know? There is a card reader and scanner attached to the iPod, with a USB port on the bottom. Article says nothing about the operation of the device. Internet purchases are not done on a portable device in the hands of another person.

But if you are gullible enough to think these devices are foolproof and secure, then make your purchases with them. Having your credit/debit card info stolen is the first step in identity theft. I would rather use a fixed point of sale device than a portable hand held device.

[m2002brian]

so wait, let me get this right. You see them walking around not helping. Do you think other people have trouble seeing them walking around not helping? IDK but when I have question, like where to check out, I find an employee and ask. Never found that too difficult. There's usually and employee somewhere. I would assume they where a uniform of some sort. Maybe even an ID badge. Maybe

[m2002brian]

Originally Posted by hillstones

How do you know? There is a card reader and scanner attached to the iPod, with a USB port on the bottom. Article says nothing about the operation of the device. Internet purchases are not done on a portable device in the hands of another person.

But if you are gullible enough to think these devices are foolproof and secure, then make your purchases with them. Having your credit/debit card info stolen is the first step in identity theft. I would rather use a fixed point of sale device than a portable hand held device.

There is zero difference between this and wally world, it's just wireless. Why would they make it any harder than it has to be?
It's only acting as the screen pad they have attached at their lanes(wally world). It be like stealing one of those and thinking you'll have a bunch of CC #'s but nope they'll be on a server somewhere remote.

but what i can see it screen capture security. It look as though the CC # is displayed right in screen. That would allow for user to activate a screen capture. Hopefully Apple would be smart enough to disable said feature.

[m2002brian]

in fact the "save" button on the screen shot of CC info also has that blue arrow. I'll be wild and guess that means some sort of remote save. Which would also indicate to me that, because the program icon itself has the symbol, the the program is run remotely. IDK wild guess. Actually upon further review, they mean nothing of the sort. There is also the same symbol on the home button. But a remote apps would be cool in in of itself.

[jfanning]

Originally Posted by solipsism

It’s not looking good for MS, but I am more worried about Motorola’s Symbol business.

You must not know much about Motorola's Symbol business if this worries you.

[bigdaddyp]

Originally Posted by hillstones

Because most Apple Store employees walk around the store ignoring the customers and give no indication to anyone that they can ring up an item for you. So in most cases, it is very easy to look around wondering how to buy something. I have been to the Apple Store a few times and seen that happen, other times the service has been excellent. In some cases, they have also taken me straight to the Genius desk to complete the purchase.

I have to agree with you there. The last couple of times when I was in an Apple store was in Grand Rapids. One time I went in by myself wearing my normal attire (shorts, ratty t-shirt, running shoes) and could not get help. Every time I spotted someone free and started heading towards them they would head over to the door and greet and engage the next person walking in. Irritated the hell out of me.The next time I went was after a meeting and had on a dress clothes and a tie I could't get them to leave me alone, had to practically beat them away with stick. And if course when I go in with my wife the service is always top notch, I guess I should just send her to do my shopping. My point is that I received very inconsistent service (at that store) and they can do better.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by jfanning

You must not know much about Motorola's Symbol business if this worries you.

I’ll bite. What about Motorola’s Symbol business is so well structured that a new player in the market that is considerably cheaper, faster, versatile and more robust will not affect their business?

[Fast Fred 1]

Can't wait for the free app for the iPhone. I can scan my groceries at the store
on the shelf, total, zap to Card #, dump it wifi and walk out. Self serve.

[m2002brian]

Originally Posted by Fast Fred 1

Can't wait for the free app for the iPhone. I can scan my groceries at the store
on the shelf, total, zap to Card #, dump it wifi and walk out. Self serve.

Interesting idea, remote self check out. Nice. Your cart would have to be the "scale".

I've always wondered at self check out, if you find items that weight the same but cost less would it fool the system.

Store would then become "App Aproved" and would have a special bar code you scan (once and store) to identify them. You could then thereticly buy things from say Best Buy straight from their newspaper ad with your iPhone.

Of course you can already do this, although with more typing.

[mstone]

Originally Posted by cmf2

The only problem I have is that I don't want a bag and they email you your receipt, so how do you get out the door?

I thought it was quite convenient to get an email for my records, and since it shows up on my iPhone instantly, I have the digital receipt in my pocket. Plus I always need a bag because I can never seem to get out of there without buying more than one item.

If you are really an environmentalist you can always save the bag and bring it back the next time you go shopping. You could even reuse it when you go to the grocery store. That would be pretty cool.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by Fast Fred 1

Can't wait for the free app for the iPhone. I can scan my groceries at the store
on the shelf, total, zap to Card #, dump it wifi and walk out. Self serve.

A bit of segue, but I am surprised there isn’t one that lets you create a shopping list, scan items with the built-in camera, and even keep track of items you may want to buy in the future if you scan them. Sounds like it would be handy. It could ring up your items while simultaneously removing them from the list.

If the GPS would work effectively it could even now which item is closest to you for that store, based on that last time you scanned it into the system, but I don’t that is viable at this point in time.

[BuzDots]

Originally Posted by hillstones

I guess you have never heard of servers at restaurants using a portable card reader to steal your credit card information when you go out to eat? It happens more often than you think.

I will give you that one. I have never been approached by a server with a handheld, and I have been to a few swanky places...

I would worry more about them saying "I'll be right back" when they pick up the card from the table - talk about a security risk...

See, once they have swiped your card and it has been charged, they (the credit agencies) are NOT going back and saying "but wait we need to compare signatures" That signature is ONLY for your protection, once you have lost the security of the embedded info, you are cooked. Any one can charge the crap outta your card for at least 30 days till you get the bill.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by BuzDots

I will give you that one. I have never been approached by a server with a handheld, and I have been to a few swanky places...

I would worry more about them saying "I'll be right back" when they pick up the card from the table - talk about a security risk...

The risk is ever present, and Apple using iPod Touches doesn’t make it any worse. You give your cars keys to some valet who may not even be a legal citizen or your CC or money to a waiter who walks out of site. You put your card and PIN into an ATM that may not be a real ATM. You buy things online from companies that may not be legit, may have poor security or felonious employees. Or the connection from each end could be compromised, including your PC or their servers.

Nothing has changed, but at least there are assurances that you will get your fund back or the charges dropped. If one is worried they need to work only in cash that you retrieve in person from a bank teller, or have a low limit CC that they use for less-secure purchases that you pay off frequently (this is what I do), and shred any and all documents that contain any personal information. Also, don’t use your mother’s real maiden name as a secret answer.

[BuzDots]

Originally Posted by solipsism

The risk is ever present....

Exactly.

[mstone]

Originally Posted by solipsism

A bit of segue, but I am surprised there isn’t one that lets you create a shopping list, scan items with the built-in camera, and even keep track of items you may want to buy in the future if you scan them. Sounds like it would be handy. It could ring up your items while simultaneously removing them from the list.

If the GPS would work effectively it could even now which item is closest to you for that store, based on that last time you scanned it into the system, but I don’t that is viable at this point in time.

A friend of mine is blind and they used to have a device that would scan the products and speak the description. Also handy at home for the blind just to determine what you have in the cupboard. Iphone app would easily work for that except that the touch GUI is near impossible for him to use. His daughter has an iPhone and he has tried but can't even figure out how to answer a call when it rings.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by jfanning

You must not know much about Motorola's Symbol business if this worries you.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by Fast Fred 1

Can't wait for the free app for the iPhone. I can scan my groceries at the store
on the shelf, total, zap to Card #, dump it wifi and walk out. Self serve.

Is that called the Correctional Facilities app?

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by mstone

A friend of mine is blind and they used to have a device that would scan the products and speak the description. Also handy at home for the blind just to determine what you have in the cupboard. Iphone app would easily work for that except that the touch GUI is near impossible for him to use. His daughter has an iPhone and he has tried but can't even figure out how to answer a call when it rings.

Apple has gone to great lengths to make the device usable for the blind. I’ve tested it out and it’s nerve raking to use, though I’m coming from a different PoV than those who actually need it. I suppose there isn’t much you can do with an all touch screen device until you get some sort of electrical resistance back from the display to indicate tactile locations, which may actually be possible in the near term.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by solipsism

Apple has gone to great lengths to make the device usable for the blind. I’ve tested it out and it’s nerve raking to use, though I’m coming from a different PoV than those who actually need it. I suppose there isn’t much you can do with an all touch screen device until you get some sort of electrical resistance back from the display to indicate tactile locations, which may actually be possible in the near term.

I recall being blasted on here 2 years ago because I said the iPhone discriminates against the blind and you whined "But it speaks to you!" "Apple Voice, etc!"

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by teckstud

I recall being blasted on here 2 years ago because I said the iPhone discriminates against the blind and you whined "But it speaks to you!" "Apple Voice, etc!"

Let’s get it straight. You whined, and I called you out on your idiocy for expecting a touch-based device to be ideal for the blind and your assumption that Apple is purposely shunning the blind by going with a touch-based phone. I’m surprised you haven’t stated that Apple is purposely shunning those without arms/hands/fingers by making the iPhone a finger-based multi-touch device.

[mstone]

Originally Posted by solipsism

Apple has gone to great lengths to make the device usable for the blind.

Maybe but it is not easy enough. He has a Nokia which works perfectly for him and he runs all kinds of apps on it, which he installed by himself. He is really a savvy guy and very capable. He goes everywhere all by himself even travels internationally without any help. But the iPhone is a definite no go.

[cmf2]

Originally Posted by hillstones

How do you know? There is a card reader and scanner attached to the iPod, with a USB port on the bottom. Article says nothing about the operation of the device. Internet purchases are not done on a portable device in the hands of another person.

But if you are gullible enough to think these devices are foolproof and secure, then make your purchases with them. Having your credit/debit card info stolen is the first step in identity theft. I would rather use a fixed point of sale device than a portable hand held device.

The account information on store servers is much more juicy, but of course harder to get than the data stored on a portable device. Store servers have been hacked, thousands of credit card numbers have been obtained. If that happens, it doesn't matter if you paid through this device or a fixed point of sale. If someone could get usable data off of this device, they could probably pull it off the device at work before they went home for the day too.

If you really want to protect yourself, ditch all your cards, pay in cash, get paid in cash and don't have a bank account... At some point everyone needs to determine an acceptable level of risk for themselves. Personally, I am more than willing to make use of mobile P.O.S. devices.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by mstone

Maybe but it is not easy enough. He has a Nokia which works perfectly for him and he runs all kinds of apps on it, which he installed by himself. He is really a savvy guy and very capable. He goes everywhere all by himself even travels internationally without any help. But the iPhone is a definite no go.

Does it have haptic touch? Or is it touch screen at all?

[mstone]

Originally Posted by teckstud

Does it have haptic touch? Or is it touch screen at all?

regular buttons with screen reader to voice

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by solipsism

Let’s get it straight. You whined, and I called you out on your idiocy for expecting a touch-based device to be ideal for the blind and your assumption that Apple is purposely shunning the blind by going with a touch-based phone. I’m surprised you haven’t stated that Apple is purposely shunning those without arms/hands/fingers by making the iPhone a finger-based multi-touch device.

I suppose you've never heard of haptic touch?

[petereilly]

Thanks for the article, I'm wondering if Apple will sell this outside of their own retail stores. I see a significant market at the right price point. You inspired a blog post on the subject at http://bit.ly/3n0Wee

[cmf2]

Originally Posted by teckstud

I suppose you've never heard of haptic touch?

Please list all touch screen phones currently equipped with that technology. Why are you anti-Apple on everything? I know you love your iPhone and iPod touch, bla, bla, bla but in virtually every thread you nitpick over some detail that Apple has missed and can't be forgiven for. Some of your points are legitimate, but many are not. It isn't a case that your posts are sometimes reasonable, just that sometimes Apple does make a glaring mistake or omission. The lack of haptic feedback would not fall into that category.

[dequardo]

I call B.S. FAKE!!!!!
It has a replaceable battery. Ha!!!

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by cmf2

Please list all touch screen phones currently equipped with that technology. Why are you anti-Apple on everything? I know you love your iPhone and iPod touch, bla, bla, bla but in virtually every thread you nitpick over some detail that Apple has missed and can't be forgiven for. Some of your points are legitimate, but many are not. It isn't a case that your posts are sometimes reasonable, just that sometimes Apple does make a glaring mistake or omission. The lack of haptic feedback would not fall into that category.

What are you talking about? He's talking about making the iPhone useable for the blind and all I did was suggest haptic touch? Jeesh!
Sometimes feel like a polygamist with about 6-10 nagging wives!

[rhowarth]

Good grief, what a lot of uninformed paranoia about security. Apple have been using hand held terminals to accept card payments on the floor of their stores for YEARS. What's the big deal that they're changing the terminals now? And so what if someone steals your card number and makes an unauthorised purchase? One phonecall to the bank and you get it refunded, with interest. Happened to me precisely once in what, twenty years? And of course, it's infinitely more likely to occur if you use your card in a poky little restaurant somewhere. If you're that worried, cut up your credit card and stick to cash... and hope you don't get mugged.

[hillstones]

Originally Posted by m2002brian

There is zero difference between this and wally world, it's just wireless. Why would they make it any harder than it has to be?
It's only acting as the screen pad they have attached at their lanes(wally world). It be like stealing one of those and thinking you'll have a bunch of CC #'s but nope they'll be on a server somewhere remote.

but what i can see it screen capture security. It look as though the CC # is displayed right in screen. That would allow for user to activate a screen capture. Hopefully Apple would be smart enough to disable said feature.

Your reference must be a local thing because most people only know Wally World as the fictional amusement park that Clark W. Griswold took his family to, and it was closed when they got there.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by mstone

Maybe but it is not easy enough. He has a Nokia which works perfectly for him and he runs all kinds of apps on it, which he installed by himself. He is really a savvy guy and very capable. He goes everywhere all by himself even travels internationally without any help. But the iPhone is a definite no go.

With the 30-pin connector access hopefully someone will make an attachment to assist the visually impaired better, like an overlay for the display that creates a robust force feedback for the blind and/or uses actual buttons for navigation. I’d think a D-Pad for moving between fields would be efficient.

Maybe the next revision of the iPhone will include a force feedback option to further the iPhone’s evolution. Regular users could use it for navigation without site for a virtual click wheel of even using it with headphones on and pressing a button to see who the caller is or an SMS is from by having it read to use without actually looking at the device or accepting the call. Though I feel that none of these will actually happen until at least 2 revisions.

For the blind, this is still an issue as you’d still have to do the double-click to execute a command once you’ve analysed what is on the display through force feedback. I’m surprised not more accessories for the 30-pin connector are not out yet. It’s been in the SDK since March and there were demoed products a year prior before it was officially allowed.

[hillstones]

Originally Posted by solipsism

The risk is ever present, and Apple using iPod Touches doesn’t make it any worse. You give your cars keys to some valet who may not even be a legal citizen or your CC or money to a waiter who walks out of site. You put your card and PIN into an ATM that may not be a real ATM. You buy things online from companies that may not be legit, may have poor security or felonious employees. Or the connection from each end could be compromised, including your PC or their servers.

Nothing has changed, but at least there are assurances that you will get your fund back or the charges dropped. If one is worried they need to work only in cash that you retrieve in person from a bank teller, or have a low limit CC that they use for less-secure purchases that you pay off frequently (this is what I do), and shred any and all documents that contain any personal information. Also, don’t use your mother’s real maiden name as a secret answer.

The risk I am talking about isn't fraudulent charges on your credit card, I am talking about the increased chance of identity theft, which is far more damaging. Pulling information from the credit card is usually how it starts. Why increase the chances by making a purchase from a hand-held device when there is less of a chance of it happening from a fixed point of sale terminal? Best not to do things that make you a target.

[cmf2]

Originally Posted by teckstud

What are you talking about? He's talking about making the iPhone useable for the blind and all I did was suggest haptic touch? Jeesh!
Sometimes feel like a polygamist with about 6-10 nagging wives!

The cumulative effect of your posts leads to those responses. Maybe they aren't warranted on an individual level, but collectively they are. Would it kill you to acknowledge the steps Apple has taken toward accessibility instead of looking for one that they haven't?

Edit: My response had less to do with the content of your post, but the context.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by hillstones

The risk I am talking about isn't fraudulent charges on your credit card, I am talking about the increased chance of identity theft, which is far more damaging. Pulling information from the credit card is usually how it starts. Why increase the chances by making a purchase from a hand-held device when there is less of a chance of it happening from a fixed point of sale terminal? Best not to do things that make you a target.

I understand what you are getting at, but I’m under the impression that data isn’t usually stored on the devices and that the risk is low. what I’d be more concerned with an employee being able to press the Home and Sleep buttons to take a snapshot of the info, including the signature, and then forwarding the images from the device. Though I would bet that this feature is disabled and that the network for these devices is walled without access to the open internet used in the stores.

[hezekiahb]

Originally Posted by hillstones

A portable device that reads credit cards and stores that information, including your signature! In other words, a portable device for stealing someone's identity! No thanks.

You should stay away from all technology.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by cmf2

The cumulative effect of your posts leads to those responses. Maybe they aren't warranted on an individual level, but collectively they are. Would it kill you to acknowledge the steps Apple has taken toward accessibility instead of looking for one that they haven't?

You used a complex, compound sentences with words that are high school and above level. Do you think he’ll be able to comprehend what you wrote. If so, then you have more faith than I do.

Originally Posted by hezekiahb

You should stay away from all technology.

You are coming across as a bit of luddite, Hillstones.

Seriosuly though, Apple’s been using handheld PoS devices for years without known incident. I’m more concerned by people foolishly filling out Facebook and MySpace questionnaires and passing them on or accepting anyone as a friend. Hell, even a real friend who has their account hacked can be giving up your previously private information.

[jfanning]

Originally Posted by solipsism

I’ll bite. What about Motorola’s Symbol business is so well structured that a new player in the market that is considerably cheaper, faster, versatile and more robust will not affect their business?

Nothing, but to think that what you see here from Apple is it, is just a little bit backware. Symbol has an entire line of products that this easypay doesn't even go close to.

Remember Compaq, and HP has been producing cheaper Windows CE/PPC devices for a long time, with bar code scanners, and card readers as well.

initial cost of the product is not the only requirement when a business is purchasing a device, and I not sure what you mean by more robust, how does the iPod go dropping 6 feet to a concrete floor?

[cmf2]

Originally Posted by jfanning

Nothing, but to think that what you see here from Apple is it, is just a little bit backware. Symbol has an entire line of products that this easypay doesn't even go close to.

Remember Compaq, and HP has been producing cheaper Windows CE/PPC devices for a long time, with bar code scanners, and card readers as well.

initial cost of the product is not the only requirement when a business is purchasing a device, and I not sure what you mean by more robust, how does the iPod go dropping 6 feet to a concrete floor?

If this case can do this I'm sure that an iPod Touch in these cases could survive a 6 foot drop.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by cmf2

If this case can do this I'm sure that an iPod Touch in these cases could survive a 6 foot drop.

I’d put money on an iPod Touch built into a case the same size that those Symbol devices surviving a higher drop. I use a Mophie Juice Pack Air to protect my 3GS and to supply double the battery. I’ve dropped it many times from many heights on many hard surfaces, even kicked it once by accident and it still works fine and has nary a scratch.