Exclusive look at Apple's new iPod touch-based EasyPay checkout

[jfanning]

Originally Posted by cmf2

If this case can do this I'm sure that an iPod Touch in these cases could survive a 6 foot drop.

Which of course increases the cost of the device, and then you have to purchase it from a third party

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by jfanning

Which of course increases the cost of the device, and then you have to purchase it from a third party

Find me a handheld PoS device with WiFi and the option for secure internet access and an option for home-grown apps on the cheap for under $200 and you’ll have a point.

[cmf2]

Originally Posted by jfanning

Which of course increases the cost of the device, and then you have to purchase it from a third party

What are we talking about here? I just linked that case as an example because it had a video of an iPod touch being thrown into walls and off balconies. The iPod Touch we are talking about here already comes with a case. Clearly the cost would include an iPod Touch and the case containing the card reader and bar code scanner. that doesn't necessarily make it more expensive than a symbol device (I don't know the prices).

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by cmf2

What are we talking about here? I just linked that case as an example because it had a video of an iPod touch being thrown into walls and off balconies. The iPod Touch we are talking about here already comes with a case. Clearly the cost would include an iPod Touch and the case containing the card reader and bar code scanner. that doesn't necessarily make it more expensive than a symbol device (I don't know the prices).

The really crappy ones can be had around $400 and even less, but the ones Apple uses retail for over $1000. Some of them retail for over $2000, the last time I checked. Other companies sell cheap ones more in line with the $400 offerings, but they are all pretty bad that price point. Slow, buggy and not easy to use.

If these or another company jumps into it they really could hurt their business. Some may even have to go the app and accessory route to better compete, like Tom Tom is doing with GPS. There is certainly money to be made here.

[anonymouse]

Originally Posted by solipsism

The really crappy ones can be had around $400 and even less, but the ones Apple uses retail for over $1000. Some of them retail for over $2000, the last time I checked. Other companies sell cheap ones more in line with the $400 offerings, but they are all pretty bad that price point. Slow, buggy and not easy to use.

And, I believe, for the ruggedized, "6-foot drop" models, they are all well over $1,000.

EDIT: And, of course, the US military uses the iPod Touch on the battlefield, so it must be reasonably rugged to begin with.

[hezekiahb]

Originally Posted by luke1robb

this...http://www.amazon.com/Incase-Slider-.../dp/B001NK1TYC

Is it a coincidence or not that Incase no longer sells the Power Slider?

I was thinking same thing, the moment I saw that image I thought it looked an awful lot like incase may have been the designer involved.

[jfanning]

Originally Posted by solipsism

Find me a handheld PoS device with WiFi and the option for secure internet access and an option for home-grown apps on the cheap for under $200 and you’ll have a point.

It would be hard, and this may very well work for Apple, in their controlled environment. I am just saying that this PoS system, may not work that well in the other environments that the symbol devices work well in, like warehouses, production environments, backs of trucks, outside etc.

[hill60]

Especially if it can be combined with one of the new Mac Mini servers.

Customised software, a few iPod touches with the cases, Mac mini server and an airport = a fairly good solution for a small business which could easily be sold as a package.

Originally Posted by solipsism

The really crappy ones can be had around $400 and even less, but the ones Apple uses retail for over $1000. Some of them retail for over $2000, the last time I checked. Other companies sell cheap ones more in line with the $400 offerings, but they are all pretty bad that price point. Slow, buggy and not easy to use.

If these or another company jumps into it they really could hurt their business. Some may even have to go the app and accessory route to better compete, like Tom Tom is doing with GPS. There is certainly money to be made here.

[jfanning]

Originally Posted by cmf2

Clearly the cost would include an iPod Touch and the case containing the card reader and bar code scanner. that doesn't necessarily make it more expensive than a symbol device (I don't know the prices).

A few years back, for handhelds that didn't come with those built in, they were very expensive accessories, especially the bar code scanner, since Symbol owns most the IP around scanning.

[sheff]

Honestly the thing looks as FUG as the windows version. Why not have like a blue outer shell. The grey plastic shell makes the device look hella dated, just my opinion.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by jfanning

It would be hard, and this may very well work for Apple, in their controlled environment. I am just saying that this PoS system, may not work that well in the other environments that the symbol devices work well in, like warehouses, production environments, backs of trucks, outside etc.

Can you make a valid argument why a suitcase protective case can’t be produced by a 3rd-party, but Motorola can make one? Hell, the US military has been using iPods in combat zones for years now because they are cheaper than and more versatile than previous devices. If they constantly broke, as you suggest is likely, I doubt they would be using them.

[jfanning]

Originally Posted by solipsism

Can you make a valid argument why a suitcase protective case can’t be produced by a 3rd-party, but Motorola can make one? Hell, the US military has been using iPods in combat zones for years now because they are cheaper than and more versatile than previous devices. If they constantly broke, as you suggest is likely, I doubt they would be using them.

The protective case on the Motorola devices is built on, you can't purchase it without it. Some businesses like to purchase things from one place, that way you only have to go back to one place for servicing etc, it reduces supports.

Can you give me a statistic on how many iPods have been broken in combat zones? Can you give me details of the IP rating of the iPod touch, with and without the protective cases?

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by jfanning

The protective case on the Motorola devices is built on...

<sarcasm>Wow! I didn’t realize that. What a reveleation </sarcasm>

[Tsunami]

Originally Posted by m2002brian

in fact the "save" button on the screen shot of CC info also has that blue arrow. I'll be wild and guess that means some sort of remote save. Which would also indicate to me that, because the program icon itself has the symbol, the the program is run remotely. IDK wild guess. Actually upon further review, they mean nothing of the sort. There is also the same symbol on the home button. But a remote apps would be cool in in of itself.

To all of the people discussing the little blue arrows in the pictures:

Those arrows are indicators of links to the next slide. These pictures are from the internal interactive training guide created with Keynote. The blue arrows have nothing to do with the device. For example, in the training guide, you can click on "Save" and that will take you to the next Keynote slide about the next step in a transaction.

[jfanning]

Originally Posted by solipsism

<sarcasm>Wow! I didn’t realize that. What a reveleation </sarcasm>

You still didn't answer the other questions

[aldonius]

@Tsunami: good catch, so to speak. It's not as if the people here don't use Keynote.

[franz478]

Originally Posted by hillstones

The risk I am talking about isn't fraudulent charges on your credit card, I am talking about the increased chance of identity theft, which is far more damaging. Pulling information from the credit card is usually how it starts. Why increase the chances by making a purchase from a hand-held device when there is less of a chance of it happening from a fixed point of sale terminal? Best not to do things that make you a target.

oh god, you are so freaking clueless! The credit card info is not stored on the iPod to be "downloaded" later! It's all sent wirelessly (encrypted) to a server within the store where everything is processed, otherwise how would the system even be able to verify whether the card was valid or not??? THIS IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS IF YOU DO IT AT A POS TERMINAL! THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS WHETHER IT TRAVELS THROUGH AN ETHERNET CABLE OR ENCRYPTED WIFI! So stop complaining about this "hand held device" BS.

Yes it is not 100% safe, but nothing is. Doing it from a handheld device is no different than doing it at a "fixed point of sale terminal" other than ethernet vs wifi. And WiFi is NOT the part you are complaining about, ironically.

Apple does not cater to paranoid old farts who are too stupid to comprehend semi-modern technology. I'm sure all the employees at the store will be much happier if you stay at home and never waste their time with your paranoid delusions.

Jeez, I don't understand how someone so brain-dead can think they are such a know-it-all authority on the matter.

[ajmas]

Originally Posted by cmf2

Not only that, but customers can still line up to pay in back. Although an Apple employee will probably let you know that you don't have to line up to pay.... problem solved. The only problem I have is that I don't want a bag and they email you your receipt, so how do you get out the door?

In a supermarket they usually put a sticker on unbagged items. They might do the same in the Apple Store. Of course you can still opt for the paper receipt.

[ajmas]

Originally Posted by sheff

Honestly the thing looks as FUG as the windows version. Why not have like a blue outer shell. The grey plastic shell makes the device look hella dated, just my opinion.

Looks are less important in this context than functionality. While Apple could have used another colour, black is probably more 'pass partout', since it doesn't get have any mood impacts, and is probably cheaper to make. White would have just got dirty. I am trying to think of any stores that have put much marketing into their POS, but I can't think of any offhand.

As for the security issue I hope they are using a secure wireless connection and that the application is using an encrypted protocol. Additionally the server in question is only in the Apple intranet, with possibly a store based server.

There are going to be plenty if people following this, if only for use in their own business.

Does PCI testing validate the security of the device if stolen?

[Amorya]

Originally Posted by Rot'nApple

Until some enterprising crook puts on a color t shirt, a fake apple id card and his own version of pay me system that literally pays him.

Probable? No! Possible? Yes!

From Apple's company store at their headquarters you can buy a blue T-shirt with the Apple logo on, that's the exact same shade of blue as their retail staff wear. I've worn it to an Apple store before (by mistake) and been mistaken for staff by lots of people, including a staff member!

[anonymouse]

Originally Posted by jfanning

I am just saying that this PoS system, may not work that well in the other environments that the symbol devices work well in, like warehouses, production environments, backs of trucks, outside etc.

That may be the case, but, then, this is obviously not intended for those uses.

Originally Posted by jfanning

Can you give me a statistic on how many iPods have been broken in combat zones?

Actually, for that, and many other uses, that's not really an issue. The more important issue is whether they are "durable enough" and whether the value of the functionality they provide exceeds the cost, including replacements. The Symbol devices, the useful ones, are so expensive that you can break at least a couple iPod touches and still come out ahead in value.

[Frank777]

What would be very useful is an iPod Touch with a barcode scanner and software to allow the verification of pre-sold concert tickets at the venue door.

[jfanning]

Originally Posted by anonymouse

That may be the case, but, then, this is obviously not intended for those uses.

If that is the case then why are so many people here trying to compare them?

Originally Posted by anonymouse

Actually, for that, and many other uses, that's not really an issue. The more important issue is whether they are "durable enough" and whether the value of the functionality they provide exceeds the cost, including replacements. The Symbol devices, the useful ones, are so expensive that you can break at least a couple iPod touches and still come out ahead in value.

It is an issue.

1. iPod touch is a pmp
2. The Symbol devices are rugged handhelds.

If you add the features to the touch to try and match it to a symbol device it is no longer half the price

[cycomiko]

Originally Posted by GQB

And they could have replaced them sooner... how?
This was made possible by the dock APIs which were only released to the public in June. This device started dev in April from reports I've seen.

So Apple couldnt replace them because Apple hadnt released their dock API to the public?

Surely Apple has control over what an Apple product can or cant do rather than relying on public API's

[jengelsma]

Oh, and by the way, Symbol Technologies is actually Motorola, Inc. these days. With all the positive press the DROID is getting, I'm sure Apple wants to dump their current POS terminal provider even faster!

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

(ifoAppleStore)

The current portable computers are made by Symbol Technologies Inc. and run Windows CE, linked to Apple's servers via Wi-Fi. They were introduced just before the holiday buying season in 2005, and allow any employee to act as a cashier, eliminating the traditional cash register positions that are common at other retailers. But the system has drawn complaints from employees about software crashes, sluggish operation and the need to frequently reboot.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[mstone]

Originally Posted by solipsism

or the blind, this is still an issue as you’d still have to do the double-click to execute a command once you’ve analysed what is on the display through force feedback. I’m surprised not more accessories for the 30-pin connector are not out yet. It’s been in the SDK since March and there were demoed products a year prior before it was officially allowed.

It isn't really double click. The most common technique used by blind persons on typical computers, cell phones or other devices is tabbing/scrolling around on the screen and a software screen reader speaks what it is hovering over. if you are hovering over the selection you want, you click. Of course this would have to be on a device that supported native multi-tasking of applications since the screen reader needs to overlay everything. So you need to get the software hooks in the core OS at a very low level to effectively work with all applications available on the device.

It also requires that developers care enough to code with the appropriate tags that can be read by the the screen reader in the case that you are hovering over an object that is not actual text such as an icon. Sort of like 'alt' tags in HTML.

[webraider]

Originally Posted by libertyforall

So what if I want to sign paper?! I never sign those digital signature screens! Who knows how securely or not your signature is. Identity theft is on the rise...

How Secure is a paper that you sign? Someone could photo copy the paper too..

[JupiterOne]

Originally Posted by libertyforall

So what if I want to sign paper?! I never sign those digital signature screens! Who knows how securely or not your signature is. Identity theft is on the rise...

Not only that, but has anyone ever signed one of those screens and had it look like their actual signature?

[pgkiran]

Seems like this is not rolled out at all the Apple stores but the Oakridge Store in San Jose has this implemented. Yesterday I taped this. he would not allow me to tape the App itself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHX9x6YGqtQ

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by pgkiran

Seems like this is not rolled out at all the Apple stores but the Oakridge Store in San Jose has this implemented. Yesterday I taped this. he would not allow me to tape the App itself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHX9x6YGqtQ

Thanks for the upload.

Did you ask if he liked it more overall, if it sped up checkouts, how much the attachment costs, who made the attachment, or anything else of interest?

[desertofwater]

I bought mine today from the Apple store in Raleigh, NC. Basically I agree with the CNET review. It's a great device. Or at least it would be if it worked properly.

The screen is terrible. Dark scenes in videos from iTunes are unwatchable. It almost looks like a photo negative. Dark images within a scene are a problem too (for example. a person with dark hair). Darker images from the web also don't display properly. I'm no expert, but all that points to a problem with the display.

Apparently I'm not alone. A quick search on 'ipod touch dark scene' will bring up several blog entries. Here's an example:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/15/i...isplay-issues/

The person I talked to at Apple tech support was not familiar with the issue. She was very polite and efficient though. I walked through the process of reseting, rebooting, and all that stuff. None of it worked of course. I then made an appointment to take it back to the Apple store. We'll see how that goes.

I hope this is just a manufacturing defect that's limited to a few units and not a design problem. I also hope they don't give me a hard time about fixing it.

[webfrasse]

Originally Posted by hillstones

A portable device that reads credit cards and stores that information, including your signature! In other words, a portable device for stealing someone's identity! No thanks.

Not very technical are we? This is not your big threat. Such a device can be built for a few dollars and probably be bought as well. Has been possible since they invented the magnetic card. Every time you use your card...anywhere, it is being read for the card info. Not your identity.

Heard about card skimming? That's your threat, Google it....

Inside a known store I would say you're safe...