Apple covering all the bases with Mac OS X 10.5.8 betas

[AppleInsider]

With each successive beta release of Mac OS X 10.5.8, it's becoming increasingly apparent that Apple is determined to give nearly every facet of its Leopard operating system a diligent once-over before turning its focus to Snow Leopard.

For example, a new seed of the Leopard update -- reportedly release as build 9L22 on Wednesday -- follows closely on the heels of build 9L20 this past Friday, yet sports an entirely distinct set of test areas that emphasize in/out technologies and other low-level frameworks.

By comparison, Friday's build leaned towards evaluation of imaging-relating technologies, while the builds before it arrived with similarly distinct focus areas, according to people familiar with the situation.

AppleInsider believes the disparities from build-to-build may provide yet another clue to suggest that Mac OS X 10.5.8 may be the final update to Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, and that the Mac maker is giving the operating system a final pass-through before shifting its energies toward the further advancement of Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, due for release in September.

Other people familiar with build 9L22 say the beta includes just one known issue related to saving emails to hard drives. It also bundles only four new fixes, bringing the total number of code corrections expected as part of Mac OS X 10.5.8 to just shy of four dozen.

Some of the latest fixes correct USB audio distortion, power management with FireWire, and an issue with Bluetooth printers.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[dougelo7]

First!!! >:d

[solipsism]

I agree that they will push their focus to SL after this update to make it as bug free as possible before September, but I still think that there will be another Leopard update after the SL release.

[hmurchison]

Shelve this crap and get on to Snow Leopard Apple. Stop dinking around

[steviet02]

I hope they are planning on fixing the Bluetooth issues that they screwed the pooch on in the last update.

[r00fus]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Shelve this crap and get on to Snow Leopard Apple. Stop dinking around

Some of us have non-Intel machines. Glad to see some more PPC love before it gets shut off.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by solipsism

I agree that they will push their focus to SL after this update to make it as bug free as possible before September, but I still think that there will be another Leopard update after the SL release.

edit:
I just checked the timeline. Since August will be 3 years since the last PPC Mac was discontinued it’s quite likely this will be the last update. I was thinking of the “about a year” statement from the WWDC 2008 which was in early June.

I know it sucks to not get the next OS for your 3 year Power Mac, but I think you’ll be happy when you get to finally use SL on an Intel Mac.

[wizard69]

I suspect Apple will be issuing security updates and significant bug fixes for awhile. There is that PPC issue to deal with. Then we have the reality that they often issue updates to a phased out OS while the new one ramps up installation wise.

Interestingly I haven't heard of any official Apple position on the PPC machines and Leopard. Don't really care though because this guy runs Intel hardware. I understand the concerns of PPC users but let's face it there is always Linux.


Dave

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by wizard69

I suspect Apple will be issuing security updates and significant bug fixes for awhile.

Security and firmware updates, but another point update is looking less likely with the last discoed PPC being just over 3 years from the Sl release.

[jonnyboy]

Originally Posted by steviet02

I hope they are planning on fixing the Bluetooth issues that they screwed the pooch on in the last update.

oh dear lord PLEEEEEASE! it's really awful. anytime i boot into windows my bluetooth mouse works perfectly. PERFECTLY. when it goes to sleep it takes a split second to wake us, whereas under OS X it rarely stays connected for more than a couple of minutes and sometimes takes that long to wake up

surely this update is due in a week or two

[MartiNZ]

Nearly every facet. Still no iTunes dashboard widget love I'm guessing, especially seeing as it is still reportedly broken in the SL seeds - it is the fault of iTunes 8 though, so maybe it will be fixed with 9. Saw me coming, didn't you?

[macintoshtoffy]

Originally Posted by MartiNZ

Nearly every facet. Still no iTunes dashboard widget love I'm guessing, especially seeing as it is still reportedly broken in the SL seeds - it is the fault of iTunes 8 though, so maybe it will be fixed with 9. Saw me coming, didn't you?

It'll be interesting to see whether iTunes 9 will be pure Cocoa and based on Quicktime X - although if they make the move I have a feeling that PowerPC support will be droped in that version.

[Cubert]

Too far away from the late September Snow Leopard release. We will see 10.5.9......at least.

My guess is that a 10.5.10 release will come out right after the SL release.
We may even see a .11, given that it is the last OS that Power PC users will ever use.

[lkrupp]

Originally Posted by steviet02

I hope they are planning on fixing the Bluetooth issues that they screwed the pooch on in the last update.

Not on the list because 10.5.7 + firmware update actually fixed Bluetooth issues. My mouse no longer drops its connection and it re-syncs almost immediately after turning it on. Don't know, don't care what planet you come from. You're wrong.

[macgenius84]

I do believe that 10.5.8 will not be the last update before turning its total focus on snow leopard. Every update improves on security and to fix any bugs or glitches it might have. Also happy that snow leopard will not be supporting power pc users and only intel users can upgrade to 10.6 snow leopard

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by MartiNZ

Nearly every facet. Still no iTunes dashboard widget love I'm guessing, especially seeing as it is still reportedly broken in the SL seeds - it is the fault of iTunes 8 though, so maybe it will be fixed with 9. Saw me coming, didn't you?

Originally Posted by macintoshtoffy

It'll be interesting to see whether iTunes 9 will be pure Cocoa and based on Quicktime X - although if they make the move I have a feeling that PowerPC support will be droped in that version.

Except for the DashboardClient getting 64-bit support I don’t see any evidence that Apple has even put any effort into Dashboard. The Widgets are clearly being left for dead.

BTW, the iTunes widget still does not show playlists. Other niggling issues is that I can’t rearrange the stocks like I can on the iPhone (I’d think they’d want to mirror the feel even though they are coded differently) and it would be nice for the weather widget to pull your location the way the new Time Zone in Sys Prefs can determine your location. I’d even like a GPS chip in future Mac notebooks so this is even more accurate and can do even cooler stuff, especially with mapping software.

Originally Posted by iPhone1982

If Apple was concerned about covering "ALL BASES" they would put out a Full Public Release for bug testing.

As Microsoft is this time around.

If they don't put the OS in "REAL WORLD" situations it's going to be business as usual.

OS release. People pissed off. Apple 2 months later puts out a bug fix.

If they released the iPhone 3GS to the public (as the Palm Pre did) you wouldn't have the battery issues and buggy OS that came with the iBlowup and Kill Phone.

Recall is coming.

1) MS needed to do a public release due to the very poor acceptance and general ill feeling toward Vista. Their public Beta was mearly a, “see, it’s doesn’t suck anymore” marketing manuever. A good move, but nothing altruistic about it.

2) SL is considerably much more stable than Leopard was at this point, perhaps even more stable than Leopard when it went GM. There will be bugs, there are always bugs. If that is an issue with anyone then I suggest not updating for awhile. That includes Windows 7, too.

3) The iPhone 3GS and Palm Pre are not the operating systems, so I don’t know you do a public Beta of HW.

4) The iPhone OS v3.0 had a lot more testers than WebOS had and the results of both the OSes, and the Pre and 3GS appear to show the iPhone has bested it in all the categories you are saying it has not. The Pre’s build quality and issues appear to be much greater than the iPhone despite the 3GS’ much greater sales.

5) For there to be a recall there has to be a large percentage of issues or the faulty devices have to be physical hazard. So far, I have seen neither of those from the Pre or the 3GS.

Originally Posted by Cubert

Too far away from the late September Snow Leopard release. We will see 10.5.9......at least.

My guess is that a 10.5.10 release will come out right after the SL release.
We may even see a .11, given that it is the last OS that Power PC users will ever use.

I hope you are correct as I do some Power Mac users that were hoping to get another year out of their machine. They still can, but having some point updates makes them feel more loved.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by iPhone1982

I believe the correct answer is...

1. Public Beta of Software.
2. Public Beta of Hardware (HW) to insure that you are covered on all basis like the 3GS getting so hot it burns you.

Yes, I know the difference and Yes you were correct in advising TechStud not to buy the 3GS.

Apple's PR Director should be shot and then fired. In that order so Apple can save on benefits for his/her family.

Apple's secrecy policy has got to the point of ridiculous.

Just buy the computer or new phone. You don't need to know the specs or what parts are inside it.

The issue with the battery does not appear to be wide spread. It would appear to be a battery issue (or some other component causing the battery to work to it’s fullest extent). This is more than often not a design flaw with the entire widget —which sounds like what are suggesting with the recall and suggestion that Apple didn’t test the 3GS HW— but with a batch of a component. I’d lean toward batteries as we’ve seen plenty of batch issues with them in the past. If that is the case then no amount of pre-release testing could account for this anomaly. Anecdotally speaking, my 3GS back has gotten less hot than my 3G or original iPhones.

I agree that Apple’s secrecy is no longer having the same effect. Same goes with their limited, boutique-style products. That works well when you are small and innovative and when you need to keep the more powerful companies from mercilessly copying you IP and/or announcing phantom-ware to keep consumers focused on the big players. That is no longer a game Apple can play well, even in the PC market as they are quite dominate among students and >$1000 PCs. I think we’ll see a slow moving exodus of these traits over time but it’s usually hard to teach an old dog new tricks, especially when then old tricks worked so well in the past. It’s why some guys get stuck think the Trans Am and mullet are cool decades later… it’s what they had when they first got laid and so they think it will happen again for some reason.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by iPhone1982

Both of the reasons you stated above are why Apple will never be more than an annoyance to Microsoft.

I am not sure how MS got pulled into this. They are primary a software company. If we are talking about PCs then they are only a SW company in that regard. Apple sells HW. Even if Apple had the marketshare of HP they would still be many times smaller than MS on the OS front. It’s category that means nothing with so much being platform-agnostic. For the items that are dependent on an OS, Apple only has to maintain a high enough level to keep themselves relevant. If Apple didn’t license their OS when they had considerably less marketshare, the internet was less prolific and standards unfriendly, and they had a lot less homegrown apps for customers then there is no way that they’d license it now when none of these things affect them.

The 3GS isn't as hot as my 3G.

Your comment about a mass recall, the PR director being shot and your assessment that they didn’t test the HW well makes me scratch my head that you have a 3GS and that it’s working fine.

Apple's secrecy is not even 1990's advertising. People in the 21st century want to know what they are buying and what speeds they deliver before the product is released. Every other manufacturer of computers and phones give this to their prospective buyers weeks if not months in advance.It’s only Apple that doesn’t.

There are reasons for such actions. Apple announced the original iPhone 6 months in advance. Same goes for the AppleTV. The iPhone announcement is obvious but the AppleTV announcement is more speculative. Palm was faltering and they had to create hype for the Pre. It was the smart play, but announcing 6 months ahead isn’t always the way to go.

The iPhone 3GS is less than stellar in comparison with phones for the same money (out of contract). Apple's computer side is downgrading and cutting costs that have an impact on performance.

You’ll have to provide some examples of that that aren’t based on a simple preference. Apple doesn’t try to suit everyone’s needs or they’d have a more diverse line of products like other companies that do try to get every type of customer. This goes back to my boutique comment in an earlier post. Without product line growth there will resources and shipping bottlenecks as demand grows. Apple handled this well with the iPod, which sells in Wal-Mart, so I does look like they won’t be that stuck when they feel the time is right.

Yes, Apple had a good month but Netbooks and Win 7 will turn this around next quarter when Win 7 is released.

You’re talking marketshare again. A loss of marketshare does not equate to a loss of sales. The better measure to compare a product sales year-over-year. If you are lowering your margins to maintain or increase your unit sales then you need to account for that. RiM has increased their unit sales and their profit year-over-year but do to BOGO and other sales tactics they’ve had to sell a lot more for a little gain. They will likely continue to sell even more units than the previous year, even if the 3GS outsells them these next two seasons, but they are still making money. I wouldn’t call that a failure.

Too many other smart phones are just smarter than the iPhone. I love my 3G but my buddie picked up the Samsung Omnia i910 which is free now and couldn't be happier with his new smart phone. The interface isn't as refined but he can launch Pandora and get push email for free.

Saying it’s smarter means nothing. Having Pandora running in the background means it’s smarter doesn’t make much sense to me. If it’s a feature you want then return your 3GS, it’s still under 30 days. I think background apps will come, but only when Apple figures out how to make the OS handle it well without affect the user experience of the foreground app or causing developers any issues with having to account for a background app grabbing too many cylcles or too much RAM. I’m note sure what the Push email comment is about since the iPhone can get Push email for free, too.

PS: Why is that I only hear about Pandora and Skype running in the background? Is that the limit of people’s imagination or are most things really handled better by Push Notifications. BTW, PN will be available for the Pre (the same Pre that does background apps) laster this year.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by iPhone1982

Google your questions you aksed me.

Google is a great resource but it doesn’t seem to know your opinions...

• What phones does iPhone1982 thinks are smarter than the iPhone?

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by iPhone1982

I guess your response is 1 resource? The link like the 3GS and your answer are broken in so many ways I can't connect the link.

Fix it for the remainder that want your one resource, for the others Google Iphone 3GS Recall, or iPhone 3GS Heat Issues. There are 100's of thousand of links you can link to.

Apple has pulled their site in normal response to a problem on their own forum board.

None of that answers my query about your opinions as to what glut of phones are smarter than the iPhone. We’re not talking a scientifically applied term. We are talking about your preferences here, of which I am interested it, otherwise I would not have asked.

BTW, The i910 is very nice for what it is. I think it being on Verizon, having a 5Mpx camera with 30fps video recording and a front facing camera is a much better fit for Teckstud than the iPhone. The Korean version is very nice indeed, but they are almost always ahead of most countries in that regard.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by iPhone1982

Nice try but the last update to the V551 was in 2005 and by that time it was already ancient. […]

¿Que? How can I be expected to answer in a rationale manner when getting such responses? (rhetorical)

[jonnyboy]

Originally Posted by lkrupp

Not on the list because 10.5.7 + firmware update actually fixed Bluetooth issues. My mouse no longer drops its connection and it re-syncs almost immediately after turning it on. Don't know, don't care what planet you come from. You're wrong.

the firmware update was for broadcom chipsets only. not my imac, which is still unusable with my bluetooth mouse. it works perfectly under windows on the same machine so it's a software issue; with os x. good news for you, but OTHER PEOPLE are still having issues. unless you believe we're all liars

[MartiNZ]

Originally Posted by solipsism

Except for the DashboardClient getting 64-bit support I don’t see any evidence that Apple has even put any effort into Dashboard. The Widgets are clearly being left for dead.

BTW, the iTunes widget still does not show playlists. Other niggling issues is that I can’t rearrange the stocks like I can on the iPhone (I’d think they’d want to mirror the feel even though they are coded differently) and it would be nice for the weather widget to pull your location the way the new Time Zone in Sys Prefs can determine your location. I’d even like a GPS chip in future Mac notebooks so this is even more accurate and can do even cooler stuff, especially with mapping software.

Yay someone else appreciates the issues . Yeah it's kind of sad that Dashboard is being ignored so blatantly - and it seems clear that it was really just a test-bed for iPhone app-like development. The world clock widget has a very small selection of cities; the iTunes one doesn't show playlists (and as a result crashes); the movies and yellow pages and such only work for the US; and so on. And now there's a dedicated key to show Dashboard on the laptop keyboards - it would seem sensible to make more of it, or at the very least fix it.

Good idea on the weather widget calculating your location!

[macintoshtoffy]

Originally Posted by steviet02

I hope they are planning on fixing the Bluetooth issues that they screwed the pooch on in the last update.

Maybe I just attrociously suck at these things but I could never get my Bluetooth to work properly, either with PC's or Mac; hence I still use a USB cable when tethering to my mobile.

[steviet02]

[

Originally Posted by lkrupp

. Don't know, don't care what planet you come from. You're wrong.

[steviet02]

Originally Posted by macintoshtoffy

Maybe I just attrociously suck at these things but I could never get my Bluetooth to work properly, either with PC's or Mac; hence I still use a USB cable when tethering to my mobile.

The headset that I use worked perfectly with 10.5.6, now every 5-10 times I try to connect the headset it will connect but won't pass audio to the headset. I have to remove the headset from the bluetooth preferences and redo the pairing of the device and it will work for a few times again.

[dagamer34]

Apple issued 10.4.11 AFTER 10.5 came out, so I suspect there may be another release down the pipeline, but definitely nothing as major as 10.5.8.

[cmf2]

Originally Posted by iPhone1982

As far as smarter phones (now that I've used a Samsung i910 cheapo free phone) every smart phone that multi tasks.

Imagine being in an email, getting a text, answering it, then continue (without having to relaunch an app) answering the email all while listening to the music on the phone or Pandora which works with Verizons Navigation system at the same time.

Both email and music work in the background. Text messaging opens instantly and returns you to wherever you were when you closed it. Your only point would be Pandora and Verizons Navigation system, but by then you are really streching to find an advantage. Multitasking is better, but it isn't game breaking and other features of the iphone make up for it. Multitasking is only as good as the tasks you can run on the phone, and that is where other devices fall short. Of course if you desperately need multitasking, you can always jailbreak the iphone, which by your definition would make it smarter.

[steviet02]

Originally Posted by cmf2

Both email and music work in the background. Text messaging opens instantly and returns you to wherever you were when you closed it. Your only point would be Pandora and Verizons Navigation system, but by then you are really streching to find an advantage. Multitasking is better, but it isn't game breaking and other features of the iphone make up for it. Multitasking is only as good as the tasks you can run on the phone, and that is where other devices fall short. Of course if you desperately need multitasking, you can always jailbreak the iphone, which by your definition would make it smarter.

Wait til the TomTom app comes out, any one who uses pandora or sirius in the car will be relegated to using other sources. Then the scope widens.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by steviet02

Wait til the TomTom app comes out, any one who uses pandora or sirius in the car will be relegated to using other sources. Then the scope widens.

There is no reason that a GPS app can’t also connect to the internet to stream internet radio. You keep making up this limitations to hate on Apple products as if there are no ways around them. If you want 3rd-party background apps do the jailbreak and then install the app through Cydia.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by MartiNZ

Yay someone else appreciates the issues . Yeah it's kind of sad that Dashboard is being ignored so blatantly - and it seems clear that it was really just a test-bed for iPhone app-like development. The world clock widget has a very small selection of cities; the iTunes one doesn't show playlists (and as a result crashes); the movies and yellow pages and such only work for the US; and so on. And now there's a dedicated key to show Dashboard on the laptop keyboards - it would seem sensible to make more of it, or at the very least fix it.

Good idea on the weather widget calculating your location!

it also still requires that iTunes be opened for it to work, when it seems trivial for it access the iTunes DB and files on its own. It really does look like they don’t care about Dashboard. Perhaps because they can’t make money by selling the Widgets.

Have you tried the Menu Bar app for controlling iTunes? It’s my preference.

[macintoshtoffy]

Originally Posted by MartiNZ

Yay someone else appreciates the issues . Yeah it's kind of sad that Dashboard is being ignored so blatantly - and it seems clear that it was really just a test-bed for iPhone app-like development. The world clock widget has a very small selection of cities; the iTunes one doesn't show playlists (and as a result crashes); the movies and yellow pages and such only work for the US; and so on. And now there's a dedicated key to show Dashboard on the laptop keyboards - it would seem sensible to make more of it, or at the very least fix it.

Good idea on the weather widget calculating your location!

What I'd like to see is for dashboard widgets to be visible on the desktop along with everything else like Microsoft has done with Windows 7.

[backtomac]

Originally Posted by macintoshtoffy

What I'd like to see is for dashboard widgets to be visible on the desktop along with everything else like Microsoft has done with Windows 7.

No, no, no.

Leave the cluttered desktop to Win 7.

[JupiterOne]

Originally Posted by backtomac

no, no, no.

Leave the cluttered desktop to win 7.

+1 .

[MartiNZ]

Yeah I agree. I haven't seen what windows 7 has done with such things but in Vista, turning off the gadget bar was certainly a top priority, and I would rather have Dashboard as it is than imposing on the real desktop. I could quite happily go without the scrolling up of the screen that it does for revealing the widget list also, but that's another minor point - things working properly is more important .

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by backtomac

No, no, no.

Leave the cluttered desktop to Win 7.

Originally Posted by JupiterOne

+1 .

I quite like macintoshtoffy idea, at least as option to pin to the Desktop.

Originally Posted by MartiNZ

Yeah I agree. I haven't seen what windows 7 has done with such things but in Vista, turning off the gadget bar was certainly a top priority, and I would rather have Dashboard as it is than imposing on the real desktop. I could quite happily go without the scrolling up of the screen that it does for revealing the widget list also, but that's another minor point - things working properly is more important .

Windows 7 has shown to not be any faster than Vista, and I don’t see any stability variances at point in Vista’s development. I think the real differences between Vista and Win7 seem to be that Win7 has a lot less bells and whistles running in the background so that it can deployed on slower and older HW, which on those systems would give the appearance of being considerably faster.

I think I had read that Gadgets were originally not going to be part of Win7 as this was a resource hog, but they did eventually add it, just without hte sidebar. Perhaps this is one area they managed to make significantly better. Hopefully we’ll get some Gadget developers of hardcore Windows supporters to clear that up for us.


PS: I quite like the concept of SideShow Gadgets and hope that Apple does something similar on their trackpads —which are glass, multi-touch and have the physical button under the pad itself— by making the pad an output for when a user wants to display certain types Widgets all the time even while using the trackpad to maneuver the mouse for other tasks (like a weather report or countdown clock) and when you need certain types of apps that are more easily utilized by grabbing your phone than using the mouse to click around the screen (like the calculator app). This seems like it will happen eventually. There are a lot of Menu Bar items and Widgets that would be much better suited for output on a trackpad.

[macintoshtoffy]

Originally Posted by backtomac

No, no, no.

Leave the cluttered desktop to Win 7.

Show me evidence that end users are forced to have gadgets on their desktop - if you say it is cluttered then it would hold consistent that gadgets are being forced on the end user.

[backtomac]

Originally Posted by macintoshtoffy

Show me evidence that end users are forced to have gadgets on their desktop - if you say it is cluttered then it would hold consistent that gadgets are being forced on the end user.

With the dashboard as currently implemented users call up the widgets.

What are you suggesting? In your previous post you said "What I'd like to see is for dashboard widgets to be visible on the desktop along with everything else like Microsoft has done with Windows 7." That suggests to me that the widgets would be visible on the desktop at all times.

IMO, that would lead to a cluttered desktop. No thanks. Especially when widgets can easily be call up as currently implemented.

[macintoshtoffy]

Originally Posted by backtomac

With the dashboard as currently implemented users call up the widgets.

What are you suggesting? In your previous post you said "What I'd like to see is for dashboard widgets to be visible on the desktop along with everything else like Microsoft has done with Windows 7." That suggests to me that the widgets would be visible on the desktop at all times.

IMO, that would lead to a cluttered desktop. No thanks. Especially when widgets can easily be call up as currently implemented.

Why not allow the end user to choose visibility? why does it have to be one or the other?

[Amdahl]

Originally Posted by dagamer34

Apple issued 10.4.11 AFTER 10.5 came out, so I suspect there may be another release down the pipeline, but definitely nothing as major as 10.5.8.

10.4.11 came out two weeks after 10.5 shipped, so it while it may have technically come out 'after' 10.5, it was in development before 10.5 shipped, or was known to be ready to ship. After that, nada.

I do hope 10.5 sees updates well after 10.6. I think it is becoming a necessity for Apple to do so, as their user base becomes larger and less likely to buy every update.