Apple unleashes new Leopard, Snow Leopard betas

[AppleInsider]

Apple this weekend followed the release of its latest Snow Leopard beta with new pre-releases of both Mac OS X 10.5.8 Leopard and Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard Server.

Mac OS X 10.5.8 build 9L25

Since opening the Mac OS X 10.5.8 beta test to developers approximately one month ago, Apple has shown signs that the release may cap off development of Mac OS X 10.5.

For example, each new build has arrived with a focus area noticeably distinct from the last, with lower-level technologies and frameworks seeing greater attention than usual. As such, it's been speculated that the Mac maker may be giving its Leopard OS a final once-over.

This trend appears to have culminated with this past weekend's release of build 9L25, which no longer asks that developers focus their attention on a small subset of Leopard's components. Instead, it groups together the more than three dozen components that had been isolated into smaller focus groups in earlier betas.

The latest build also lists no known issues and addresses just two new bugs, one related to saving mail messages as individual message documents and another to URL localization.

Mac OS X 10.6 Server build 10A403

Separately, developers this weekend were also treated to a new build of Mac OS X 10.6 Server, labeled build 10A403. With it, Apple asked that they test upgrade installs of the server software itself, in addition to upgrade installs of Calendar server.

Developers were also reportedly asked to spend some time with the system's new Podcast Producer, evaluating as many third-party video and web cams as they possibly can. Included with the software is a new Web Podcast Capture which leverages a new Dual Source Video Capture feature for allowing users to create picture-in-picture format podcasts.

Mac OS X 10.6 build 10A402a

Mac OS X 10.6 Server build 10A403 arrived on the heels of Mac OS X 10.6 Client build 10A402a earlier in the week. That build introduced some widely-reported interface tweaks to the Dock's pop-up menus and Expose.



One AppleInsider reader has published a few more screenshots of these interface changes to his blog, including the Dock's new menus, Exposé's new grid view, and changes to the Dock's grid view scroll bars.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[catcrewser]

Can't wait for the new Stacks, personally I like white on black, then again I am the person who has green on black in the terminal.

[saarek]

I wish Apple offered a public beta like Microsoft, it would cut down the bugs on release date, I love leopard but it took a couple of updates before it ran stable for me.

[trevc]

It looks like I should start saving up the $29.95...

Obviously MORE than worth it but I really can't believe they took this long to rewrite the Finder, I mean, anything to save me from beach balls

[Jarman]

Originally Posted by saarek

I wish Apple offered a public beta like Microsoft, it would cut down the bugs on release date, I love leopard but it took a couple of updates before it ran stable for me.

What kind of issues did you struggle with?

[trevc]

Originally Posted by saarek

I wish Apple offered a public beta like Microsoft, it would cut down the bugs on release date, I love leopard but it took a couple of updates before it ran stable for me.

It would be interesting to know what the 'testing' process was really like at Apple. I would imagine if they made a 100 internal employees make the Beta's their primary OS, the bugs would surface quite rapidly, add the external Developers and you've got your basis covered however ... especially since the hardware is limited to Intel Macintoshes with millions? of less configurations than windows.

Has this been detailed anywhere before?


I can't imagine the amount of useless public feedback that COULD happen and not be that useful.

i.e. It crashed. What were you doing at the time? I clicked on the thingy...

Of course, it would uncover higher level trends like problems with printing, etc.

[NarutoSasuke]

Originally Posted by saarek

I wish Apple offered a public beta like Microsoft, it would cut down the bugs on release date, I love leopard but it took a couple of updates before it ran stable for me.

It doesn't really make sense to have the public test the OS, it's just not necessary. Up until this version, 3rd party preference panes didn't work. Apple releases with intentions of a gradual build of features, but more importantly, to allow developers to make their apps OS-ready. In order for Snow Leopard to truly be useful (especially with Grand Central and OpenCL) devs really gotta build SL-compatible apps.

If worse comes to worse, there are ways to get the OS and it's not hard to install. It's just really not worth it...

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by saarek

I wish Apple offered a public beta like Microsoft, it would cut down the bugs on release date, I love leopard but it took a couple of updates before it ran stable for me.

As a developer, releasing a public beta doesn't cut down the bugs, it more creates 'graphic' critics, who in most cases know little about typography, layout design, functionality or common sense.

And your 'Microsoft' analogy is ludicrous. Never has a company released more buggy software. And will never be able to do otherwise because of the nature of their beasts and the massive menagerie they are played on.

If anything, Apple seems to follow 'Brook's Law' vs Microsoft's 'Wisdom of the Crowd' mentality. As the adage goes, the more choices one has, the longer it takes to make a decision. Thank goodness Steve is not into crowds or we would still be waiting for the mouse.

[MotherBrain]

You have to wonder though if Snow Leopard itself is getting ready to be more touch screen compatible. When you look at how things appear when you click on an icon in the dock, you get the same shaped bubble as you would for the iPhone OS when you do a copy and paste. I get the feeling that there may not really be a separate OS when they release a touch tablet. It will have been refined into Snow Leopard. Just look at the controls for Time Machine in system Prefs. It's totally setup like the prefs in the iPhone OS. Why else would they do that? It doesn't look like any other of the pref controls in system prefs. I think they are testing the waters. I really think that the current OS would be fine for touch with just some minor refinements like they are doing with the dock and Time Machine system prefs.

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by trevc

It looks like I should start saving up the $29.95...

Obviously MORE than worth it but I really can't believe they took this long to rewrite the Finder, I mean, anything to save me from beach balls

Where have you been?

As for you 'beach balls' maybe this will help: "
The Spinning Beach Ball of Death," http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/sbbod.html

At least you may get a better understanding of how, why and what you can do about it.

[NarutoSasuke]

I agree with Abster2core, many developers talk about how a "public beta" is just an excuse and gimmick used by companies to get the product out there. I feel Microsoft is using the public beta to increase the amount of users upgrading from Vista. They are really trying to change their image, so it's in their advantage.

As for Apple, they can do the opposite: build anticipation for an unreleased product by just letting developers and hackers promote their product with leaks. Either way, the adoption rate for Snow Leopard is going to be huge, plus every new user that buys a back this holiday season will get Snow Leopard.

[wizard69]

Personally I like hearing that the SL releases are in the state they are. Nothing would be better than to know that SL is now completely in bug fix mode with strong quality control efforts. The reason is clear 10.5 was far buggier than it should have been and took far to long to get things like networking ironed out.

In a nut shell it better be more stable as that was one of Apples stated goals with this release.

Frankly though I can't wait. I'm really hoping that this extends the life of my MBP a year or two and solves some of the performance issues. Of course some of this is in the applications but I'm hoping they are being addressed too.


Dave

[al_bundy]

Originally Posted by trevc

It would be interesting to know what the 'testing' process was really like at Apple. I would imagine if they made a 100 internal employees make the Beta's their primary OS, the bugs would surface quite rapidly, add the external Developers and you've got your basis covered however ... especially since the hardware is limited to Intel Macintoshes with millions? of less configurations than windows.

Has this been detailed anywhere before?


I can't imagine the amount of useless public feedback that COULD happen and not be that useful.

i.e. It crashed. What were you doing at the time? I clicked on the thingy...

Of course, it would uncover higher level trends like problems with printing, etc.

Pc's and macs have the same potential configs these days. Almost everything is on the motherboard and not like the old days. Apple is even like Dell and HP in that they switch hardware everytime they argue with a supplier

[melgross]

Originally Posted by saarek

I wish Apple offered a public beta like Microsoft, it would cut down the bugs on release date, I love leopard but it took a couple of updates before it ran stable for me.

You think that MS's releases are more stable, with less problems?

I remember when XP first came out. MS was asked how many known bugs were in the official release, and the answer was "about 68,000."

Remember all the problems with Vista?

A public beta program doesn't seem to be of much help in getting stable, bug-free releases.

Of course, Windows could have been even worse without it, but that doesn't even bear thinking about.

[ascii]

Widespread betas are more important for Microsoft due to the variety of hardware they have to support. Not so much for Apple.

[aga]

Originally Posted by saarek

I wish Apple offered a public beta like Microsoft, it would cut down the bugs on release date, I love leopard but it took a couple of updates before it ran stable for me.

What  Apple should do is sell a public beta for $29,
giving you the sole right to giving preliminary feedback.
NDA still in effect.

When the GM comes out, full price for you.

New revenue stream.
New bleeding heart fans coughing up cold cash.
New group of individuals to sue.
New way to compete with google... beta everything .

[seanie248]

Originally Posted by saarek

I wish Apple offered a public beta like Microsoft, it would cut down the bugs on release date, I love leopard but it took a couple of updates before it ran stable for me.

Public Betas reduce the WOW factor and the 'newness' of the release.

This is what Apple excel at.

Also, public betas mean people experience buggy trials and so get put off what could be fabulous product at final release. Definitely not a way to go if you are running a business. As Microsoft are finding out !!

also :
"Apple has shown signs that the release may cap off development of Mac OS X 10.5."

Dont AI reporters put this line in at nearly every point release, or do i imagine it??

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by NarutoSasuke

I feel Microsoft is using the public beta to increase the amount of users upgrading from Vista. They are really trying to change their image, so it's in their advantage.

That is exactly what MS is doing.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by seanie248

Public Betas reduce the WOW factor and the 'newness' of the release.

+1

I don't attempt to bootleg any OS X version because I like to just install it and see all the features first hand. The wait is hard but in the end it's worth it. I think before I upgrade to SL I'm doing a new CPU and HDD upgrade.

[mstone]

Originally Posted by NarutoSasuke

... but more importantly, to allow developers to make their apps OS-ready. In order for Snow Leopard to truly be useful (especially with Grand Central and OpenCL) devs really gotta build SL-compatible apps.

Are you kidding me? I'm sure HandBrake, Limewire and Audio Hijack will be completely SL compatible on release day but it will probably be a year or more for Adobe, Quark, and Microsoft to get around to it.

[Eye Forget]

Originally Posted by Abster2core

As for you 'beach balls' maybe this will help: "

That certainly takes care of .0001% of them.

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by Eye Forget

That certainly takes care of .0001% of them.

And you base that on what?

We have had a copy of Troubleshooting Mac® OS X in our labs for a couple of years now and recently got the Leopard Edition.

We follow it religiously. Our primary source for troubleshooting, along with Apple's Support, Tutorials and the Help menu.

Our first venture with Troubleshooting Mac® OS X was because of beachballs. Can't say enough for how it got us, our clients and colleagues set up properly. Can't remember when it occurred last.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by mstone

Are you kidding me? I'm sure HandBrake, Limewire and Audio Hijack will be completely SL compatible on release day but it will probably be a year or more for Adobe, Quark, and Microsoft to get around to it.

It's not that they finally "get around to it." Their programs are vastly larger and more complex. Do you think it takes the same time to revise their software as much smaller, simpler programs and suites?

[ltcommander.data]

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/07/13/...g-performance/

Macrumors is reporting that GTX285 users will have to install a separate graphics driver before updating to 10.5.8 otherwise the system will hang. For such a major problem, why wouldn't Apple mention it as an outstanding issue in 10.5.8 betas and fix it before release?

[razorpit]

Originally Posted by trevc

It would be interesting to know what the 'testing' process was really like at Apple. I would imagine if they made a 100 internal employees make the Beta's their primary OS, the bugs would surface quite rapidly, add the external Developers and you've got your basis covered however ... especially since the hardware is limited to Intel Macintoshes with millions? of less configurations than windows.

Has this been detailed anywhere before?


I can't imagine the amount of useless public feedback that COULD happen and not be that useful.

i.e. It crashed. What were you doing at the time? I clicked on the thingy...

Of course, it would uncover higher level trends like problems with printing, etc.

I think the problem would be everyone would think it is a relas candidate and expect everything to work perfectly. The support lines would be overwhelmed. Plus with more people having software in a constant state of revision would give the perception of poorly written software. Microsoft wa able to do a preview of Windows 7 because the code was finished a long time ago with Vista.

[BertP]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

+1

I don't attempt to bootleg any OS X version because I like to just install it and see all the features first hand. The wait is hard but in the end it's worth it. I think before I upgrade to SL I'm doing a new CPU and HDD upgrade.

I agree with this point of view. I have prepared by upgrading my memory from 2GB to 4GB; that is all I can do hardware wise to upgrade my current iMac. But I expect to benefit from better utilization of the 64-bit Intel CPU, and from quicker back-ups via Time Machine and Time Capsule because of SL. The ATI Radeon HD 2600 graphic card will not be supported for OpenCL, but I am not pining about it. I think it is wonderful that SL is about stability, performance, and preparing for Mac OS 10.7.

I expect that some of the bundled apps like Mail and Safari will be GCD enabled in SL. A question I have in my mind is when the iLife and iWork apps will be GCD enabled, and begin taking advantage of OpenCL. Does anyone know? Would the SL Box Set just be SL plus 64-bit versions of iLife and iWork without being GCD enabled or taking any advantage of OpenCL? For now, I think I probably will have to wait on the description of the SL Box set when it is announced.

[mstone]

Originally Posted by melgross

It's not that they finally "get around to it." Their programs are vastly larger and more complex. Do you think it takes the same time to revise their software as much smaller, simpler programs and suites?

No I think they don't care. If the incompatibilities aren't too severe, they'll never do anything about it. They will only spend money on updating the the 'features' so they can charge you again for it.

Now compatible with Snow Leopard!

Is not exactly a bullet point worth mentioning.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by mstone

No I think they don't care. If the incompatibilities aren't too severe, they'll never do anything about it. They will only spend money on updating the the 'features' so they can charge you again for it.

Now compatible with Snow Leopard!

Is not exactly a bullet point worth mentioning.

I don't agree. It's easy to ignore the work that has to be done if you don't like these companies, but big companies are just not as nimble as small ones are.

Also, Apple is responsible for much of this. They lead developers around in circles at times. They certainly did that with Carbon 32/64 vs Cocoa. How would you like to have millions in development costs go up in smoke?

[DanaCameron]

Originally Posted by Abster2core

We have had a copy of Troubleshooting Mac® OS X in our labs for a couple of years now and recently got the Leopard Edition. We follow it religiously. Our primary source for troubleshooting, along with Apple's Support, Tutorials and the Help menu. Our first venture with Troubleshooting Mac® OS X was because of beachballs. Can't say enough for how it got us, our clients and colleagues set up properly. Can't remember when it occurred last.

I tend to get the beach ball when using iTunes and Safari. I have a pretty large iTunes Library (nearly 300 GB) with most tunes in Apple Lossless, all housed on an external HDD. I also recently changed my setup by connecting the HDD to my Time Capsule (preemptively, as I'm planning on upgrading to a MBP and would like to have access to my Library from all over the house) instead of directly to my low-end, early model C2D iMac (with only 1 GB of RAM).

Prior to having access to this iMac, I was getting by with an ailing iBook G4 with 1.25 GB of RAM (lots more beach balls with that machine). I suspect my usage pattern (usually 4-6 apps open while listening to iTunes) is simply pushing my low-end hardware, occasionally spiking demands on the processor and limited RAM.

The beach balls aren't usually crippling, but they are occasionally annoying. Abster, do you think Troubleshooting Mac® OS X would provide possible solutions to ease the wireless data traffic on my network? Or do you think (as I do) my occasional beach balls are indicative of my low-spec'd hardware?

[mstone]

Originally Posted by melgross

I don't agree. It's easy to ignore the work that has to be done if you don't like these companies, but big companies are just not as nimble as small ones are.

Also, Apple is responsible for much of this. They lead developers around in circles at times. They certainly did that with Carbon 32/64 vs Cocoa. How would you like to have millions in development costs go up in smoke?

I don't disagree, but my original comments were in response that the purpose of beta releases is for developers to make sure their code doesn't break. It is just not very important to those big software publishers. It's not like they are going to get a head start on it using the betas.

But I don't like paying thousands of dollars every other year for CS# just for a few bug fixes and a new icon.

[Lorre]

Originally Posted by DanaCameron

I tend to get the beach ball when using iTunes and Safari. I have a pretty large iTunes Library (nearly 300 GB) with most tunes in Apple Lossless, all housed on an external HDD. I also recently changed my setup by connecting the HDD to my Time Capsule (preemptively, as I'm planning on upgrading to a MBP and would like to have access to my Library from all over the house) instead of directly to my low-end, early model C2D iMac (with only 1 GB of RAM).

Prior to having access to this iMac, I was getting by with an ailing iBook G4 with 1.25 GB of RAM (lots more beach balls with that machine). I suspect my usage pattern (usually 4-6 apps open while listening to iTunes) is simply pushing my low-end hardware, occasionally spiking demands on the processor and limited RAM.

The beach balls aren't usually crippling, but they are occasionally annoying. Abster, do you think Troubleshooting Mac® OS X would provide possible solutions to ease the wireless data traffic on my network? Or do you think (as I do) my occasional beach balls are indicative of my low-spec'd hardware?

Upgrade your iMac to 2GB RAM and 90% of those beach balls will disappear. It's relatively cheap and there are tons of guides online on how to do it.

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by DanaCameron

I tend to get the beach ball when using iTunes and Safari. I have a pretty large iTunes Library (nearly 300 GB) with most tunes in Apple Lossless, all housed on an external HDD. I also recently changed my setup by connecting the HDD to my Time Capsule (preemptively, as I'm planning on upgrading to a MBP and would like to have access to my Library from all over the house) instead of directly to my low-end, early model C2D iMac (with only 1 GB of RAM).

Prior to having access to this iMac, I was getting by with an ailing iBook G4 with 1.25 GB of RAM (lots more beach balls with that machine). I suspect my usage pattern (usually 4-6 apps open while listening to iTunes) is simply pushing my low-end hardware, occasionally spiking demands on the processor and limited RAM.

The beach balls aren't usually crippling, but they are occasionally annoying. Abster, do you think Troubleshooting Mac® OS X would provide possible solutions to ease the wireless data traffic on my network? Or do you think (as I do) my occasional beach balls are indicative of my low-spec'd hardware?

Without contravening "Troubleshooting Mac® OS X's copyrights, I would your main problem stems from trying to accomplish too much with too little. Much like trying to start your car with a 6-volt battery.

Your Mac is underpowered and certainly lacks RAM. Then you are attempting to access an extensively large database externally. Troubleshooting Mac® OS X is a great resource and it much explains much of your concerns. However, your issue is basic and more reading will not necessarily fix your problem entirely. It can help but not alleviate it.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by mstone

I don't disagree, but my original comments were in response that the purpose of beta releases is for developers to make sure their code doesn't break. It is just not very important to those big software publishers. It's not like they are going to get a head start on it using the betas.

But I don't like paying thousands of dollars every other year for CS# just for a few bug fixes and a new icon.

It's important to them. But there's just so much they can do until the OS is near release. Smaller programs don't have to grab as much of the Os as large ones do. It's easier to correct something if Apple makes changes in later stages of development. That's why we see a rush of small programs coming out so quickly.

You aren't required to buy any program upgrade if you don't need to. Adobe does add compelling features for those of us who use them. If you don't need the sophistication the suite offers, then you can upgrade every other time, or use something simpler and cheaper.

[DanaCameron]

Originally Posted by Lorre

Upgrade your iMac to 2GB RAM and 90% of those beach balls will disappear. It's relatively cheap and there are tons of guides online on how to do it.

I figured as much. I'm trying to not spend anything on hardware until I can do the whole shebang next year. Depending on how cheap the upgrade is, I may just bite the bullet.

Originally Posted by Abster2core

Without contravening "Troubleshooting Mac® OS X's copyrights, I would your main problem stems from trying to accomplish too much with too little. Much like trying to start your car with a 6-volt battery.

Great analogy!

Originally Posted by Abster2core

Your Mac is underpowered and certainly lack RAM. Then you are attempting to access an extensively large database externally. Troubleshooting Mac® OS X is a great resource and it much explains much of your concerns. However, your issue is basic and more reading will not fix your problem. It can help but not alleviate it.

Yeah, that's what I thought. I'd curbed my usage a bit already (and I've never been a power user), but I still suspected I was pushing my poor little Macs too hard.

I'm planning on upgrading next year to (hopefully) a Nehalem Mac. I'm still on the fence as to whether to get a nice, large capacity iMac and maybe a MBA for travel or a high-end MBP with an Apple Cinema Display. I'm leaning toward the MBP/Cinema Display option, but at this point I'm not even sure what Apple's product line will look like a year from now. Maybe instead of a MBA, Apple will have some sort of tablet Mac on the market I could get instead.

Anyway, thanks again!

[melgross]

Originally Posted by DanaCameron

I figured as much. I'm trying to not spend anything on hardware until I can do the whole shebang next year. Depending on how cheap the upgrade is, I may just bite the bullet.

Memory is real cheap right now, so it may pay, even for a few months.

[iVlad]

Originally Posted by saarek

I wish Apple offered a public beta like Microsoft, it would cut down the bugs on release date, I love leopard but it took a couple of updates before it ran stable for me.

Ummm, as far as I know, Micro$oft still have huge issues even with public testing. It's not that you have to test it enough, you need to have people who really know how to code and work with Operating System.

[mdriftmeyer]

Originally Posted by mstone

Are you kidding me? I'm sure HandBrake, Limewire and Audio Hijack will be completely SL compatible on release day but it will probably be a year or more for Adobe, Quark, and Microsoft to get around to it.

Limewire is written in Java. The only way it will leverage SL natively is to move to Cocoa. If they haven't done it by now they never will as they do want to be cross-platform neutral.

[mstone]

Originally Posted by melgross

It's important to them. But there's just so much they can do until the OS is near release. Smaller programs don't have to grab as much of the Os as large ones do. It's easier to correct something if Apple makes changes in later stages of development. That's why we see a rush of small programs coming out so quickly.

You aren't required to buy any program upgrade if you don't need to. Adobe does add compelling features for those of us who use them. If you don't need the sophistication the suite offers, then you can upgrade every other time, or use something simpler and cheaper.

ha ha very funny. I end up buying several copies of the master collection for mac and pc because nothing is backwardsly compatible and they make indiviual applications very unattractive to upgrade. As soon as another vendor sends us a file in the new format we end up having to upgrade every machine in the studio

[DanaCameron]

Originally Posted by melgross

Memory is real cheap right now, so it may pay, even for a few months.

Can you recommend a good retailer?

[JLL]

Originally Posted by ltcommander.data

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/07/13/...g-performance/

Macrumors is reporting that GTX285 users will have to install a separate graphics driver before updating to 10.5.8 otherwise the system will hang. For such a major problem, why wouldn't Apple mention it as an outstanding issue in 10.5.8 betas and fix it before release?

Because it's not an outstanding issue in 10.5.8. It's obviously in the drivers, and NVIDIA has fixed it by releasing new drivers.