Apple releases Safari 4.0.3

[AppleInsider]

Apple Tuesday afternoon released a new update to its Safari browser, bringing a handful of minor fixes to the application.

The program is available for download direct from Apple or via Software Update on OS X. The update is said to include:

Stability improvements for Web pages that use the HTML 5 video tag.
A fix for an issue that prevented some users from logging into iWork.com.
A fix for an issue that could cause web content to be displayed in grayscale instead of color.

The previous update to Safari, 4.0.2, was released in early July. It reduced crashes related to Nitro, the custom JavaScript engine key to Safari's improved speed. It also rolled in unnamed compatibility and security fixes.

[jazzguru]

I'm a "casual" Apple Fan Boi, so bear with me if this has already been addressed ad nauseum in other threads, but does Apple have a particular strategy in the web browser market? Are they trying to gain market share there, or have they pretty much conceded that battle to IE, FireFox, and now Chrome?

I do like what I see in Safari 4, although I currently prefer Google Chrome.

[Elijahg]

Toooo slow :P

[Mazda 3s]

Originally Posted by jazzguru

I'm a "casual" Apple Fan Boi, so bear with me if this has already been addressed ad nauseum in other threads, but does Apple have a particular strategy in the web browser market? Are they trying to gain market share there, or have they pretty much conceded that battle to IE, FireFox, and now Chrome?

I do like what I see in Safari 4, although I currently prefer Google Chrome.

I dunno, I guess it's like IE8 for Windows 7. You'll get the lazy folks who don't know any better to use the included browser, but most power users will go for the better-featured browser (Chrome, Firefox, Opera).

I just bought my first Mac (a 13" MacBook Pro) a couple of weeks ago after being with a PC for the past 15 years. I tried giving Safari a try, but ended up going right back to Firefox 3.5 (and all of my lovely extensions). It works great in OS X.

[OC4Theo]

Safari 4 is slower than Safari 3. It is supposed to faster but it is not. I thought it was because of PowerPC in my G5, but after I got a Mac Pro, same thing continues. Taker longer to load pages than Safari 3.

Any ideas?

[slapppy]

I love using Safari. Problem is that's it's pretty much useless for corporate sites. Well just about any site that uses active-x, sharepoint or gov sites. Tends to break or lose functionality with most .net and .asp sites. Gotta use IE on Windows. It's why Macs are not good for corporate use.

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by OC4Theo

Safari 4 is slower than Safari 3. It is supposed to faster but it is not. I thought it was because of PowerPC in my G5, but after I got a Mac Pro, same thing continues. Taker longer to load pages than Safari 3.

Any ideas?

Originally Posted by slapppy

I love using Safari. Problem is that's it's pretty much useless for corporate sites. Well just about any site that uses active-x, sharepoint or gov sites. Tends to break or lose functionality with most .net and .asp sites. Gotta use IE on Windows. It's why Macs are not good for corporate use.

I agree wholeheartedly with both comments. Safari 4 is an instance where Apple went backwards in terms of quality of experience. They should have left 3.0 well enough alone.

I hope 10.6 doesn't end up likewise........ (at this point, as a lay user who's very happy with 10.5.X, it's not even that obvious to me I should care).

[macFanDave]

Originally Posted by OC4Theo

Safari 4 is slower than Safari 3. It is supposed to faster but it is not. I thought it was because of PowerPC in my G5, but after I got a Mac Pro, same thing continues. Taker longer to load pages than Safari 3.

Any ideas?

Did you try emptying the cache?

Go to OpenDNS.org and put those numbers in your Network/Airport or Ethernet/Advanced.../DNS.

Turn IPv6 to off.

Repair permissions.

[MFago]

Originally Posted by slapppy

I love using Safari. Problem is that's it's pretty much useless for corporate sites. Well just about any site that uses active-x, sharepoint or gov sites. Tends to break or lose functionality with most .net and .asp sites. Gotta use IE on Windows. It's why Macs are not good for corporate use.

This is the fault of the people writing the website, not Apple, Safari, of Firefox. Microsoft's tools create websites that purposely only work on Windows with IE, and are not written in standard HTML. Active-X is evil (difficult to secure, etc) and shouldn't be used by anyone for anything.

Personally, I use both Safari and Firefox -- usually if one has an issue, the other will work. They each have their strengths. Thank goodness for AdBlock -- available now for Safari too!

[Virgil-TB2]

Originally Posted by jazzguru

I'm a "casual" Apple Fan Boi, so bear with me if this has already been addressed ad nauseum in other threads, but does Apple have a particular strategy in the web browser market? Are they trying to gain market share there, or have they pretty much conceded that battle to IE, FireFox, and now Chrome?...

I think they will take more market share as it comes (and they are currently gaining market share faster than any other browser), but the main purpose is to push Internet standards.

Judged that way, they are the most successful browser on the planet as that's exactly the effect Safari has had on the market.

[Virgil-TB2]

Originally Posted by OC4Theo

Safari 4 is slower than Safari 3. It is supposed to faster but it is not. I thought it was because of PowerPC in my G5, but after I got a Mac Pro, same thing continues. Taker longer to load pages than Safari 3. ...

I don't know what your particular problem is, but Safari 4 is definitely *not* "slower than Safari 3." Check out Apple support as it just shouldn't be that way.

[wizard69]

Originally Posted by OC4Theo

Safari 4 is slower than Safari 3. It is supposed to faster but it is not. I thought it was because of PowerPC in my G5, but after I got a Mac Pro, same thing continues. Taker longer to load pages than Safari 3.

Any ideas?

I'm convinced there are or where bugs in Safari that caused the problems you describe. However I haven't seen that behaviour lately so maybe the last OS / Safari update fixed the issue. Generally when this was happening I could fire up Firefox and get right to the site in question. Sometimes I had to abend Safari too.

So what ever the bug was it didn't impact Firefox. Generally though I use Firefox as my backup browser as Safari is really growing on me.

Part of that attachment to Safari is it's integration into the iPhone and the associated syncing. It is surprising how useful this combo has become. A few other things in Safari are growing on me also. In general I like it's transparent nature.

For your issue though do upgrade everything and see what happens. There are other options I haven't tried above that might help but at this point it seems snappy.



Dave

[slapppy]

Originally Posted by MFago

This is the fault of the people writing the website, not Apple, Safari, of Firefox. Microsoft's tools create websites that purposely only work on Windows with IE, and are not written in standard HTML. Active-X is evil (difficult to secure, etc) and shouldn't be used by anyone for anything.

Personally, I use both Safari and Firefox -- usually if one has an issue, the other will work. They each have their strengths. Thank goodness for AdBlock -- available now for Safari too!

Well I've gone through this discussion before. It's all well and good to blame Microsoft for disrupting the true purposes of the internet or web/internet based information access. It doesn't solve the problem. No matter how we want, Microsoft owns 90% of the planet computer use. So we can cry foul all we want, but until governments wake up to the fact that this only feeds the monopoly, Apple and others needs to make their browsers Microsoft compliant. Oh yeah, Governments are to blame also for allowing and even endorsing this IE/Windows only for the Web/Internet access.

[Rokken]

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

I agree wholeheartedly with both comments. Safari 4 is an instance where Apple went backwards in terms of quality of experience. They should have left 3.0 well enough alone.

I hope 10.6 doesn't end up likewise........ (at this point, as a lay user who's very happy with 10.5.X, it's not even that obvious to me I should care).

I'm surprised at how experience varies among people. To me, Safari 4 is so much faster (snappier ™) than 3 in every aspect and I also prefer it to Firefox. I'm really looking forward to the 64-bit Safari 4 in Snow Leopard.

[Mazda 3s]

Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2

I think they will take more market share as it comes (and they are currently gaining market share faster than any other browser), but the main purpose is to push Internet standards.

Judged that way, they are the most successful browser on the planet as that's exactly the effect Safari has had on the market.

That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. That's like saying "Mercedes introduced us to airbags, ABS, electronic stability control, and radar cruise control for passenger vehicles -- Mercedes is the most successul automaker on the planet."

[str1f3]

Originally Posted by Mazda 3s

I dunno, I guess it's like IE8 for Windows 7. You'll get the lazy folks who don't know any better to use the included browser, but most power users will go for the better-featured browser (Chrome, Firefox, Opera).

I just bought my first Mac (a 13" MacBook Pro) a couple of weeks ago after being with a PC for the past 15 years. I tried giving Safari a try, but ended up going right back to Firefox 3.5 (and all of my lovely extensions). It works great in OS X.

What would you know? I'm a Safari user and well versed in technology. I think Firefox is overrated and is slower in every way to Safari. Most of Firefox's plugins are useless and the few that I would use are in Safari. Safari still displays web pages better. This is not even mentioning that Firefox still can't use the Services menu. As for Camino & Opera I don't even think most people care about them much anymore.

The only browser I would take a second look at is Chrome. The builds of Chromium of blazing fast and the I like the unified address bar. The address bar isn't that big of a deal though since I've already done that to Safari using keywurl.

As for some other users on this thread Safari 4 is incredibly fast. It is neck and neck in terms of speed with Chromium. If Safari is slow for you then you are doing something to slow it down. There have been tests from tons of sites that have it as fast as Chrome. The main difference is that Chromium is way faster than Safari loading up. Chromium doesn't even bounce in the dock.

[skingers]

Originally Posted by Mazda 3s

That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. That's like saying "Mercedes introduced us to airbags, ABS, electronic stability control, and radar cruise control for passenger vehicles -- Mercedes is the most successul automaker on the planet."

I don't think the original poster's point is quite that ridiculous.

I think what he means is that once upon a time Mac users were severely disadvantaged because the world was dominated so much by IE and Microsoft deliberately broke standards in order to keep things that way. Mac users were marginalized on the Internet because of it. This situation still exists to some extent but not anywhere near as much as previously.

His assertion that Safari has been successful because it has promoted open standards is correct. The Internet is a much easier place for Mac users to live now because of alternate browsers like Safari and firefox and the standards they are pushing.

[wizard69]

Originally Posted by Rokken

I'm surprised at how experience varies among people. To me, Safari 4 is so much faster (snappier ™) than 3 in every aspect and I also prefer it to Firefox. I'm really looking forward to the 64-bit Safari 4 in Snow Leopard.

Yes Safari 4 is a big improvement but the problem that the one poster described was very real and still may be real. I've seen the issue myself. Given all of that I still start it up in preference to all other browsers. Mostly due to that overall intergration with the Apple way.

I also share your desire with respect to 64 bit Safari. That should be impressive if any of the prerelease comments are accurate. SL is only a few weeks away at worst, I'm hoping it lives up to it's performance goals.

[azcodemonkey]

Originally Posted by macFanDave

Did you try emptying the cache?

Go to OpenDNS.org and put those numbers in your Network/Airport or Ethernet/Advanced.../DNS.

Turn IPv6 to off.

Repair permissions.

I can tell you don't frequent Slashdot. You'd be crucified for suggesting OpenDNS, which returns invalid NXDOMAIN response to invalid domain requests. Most people recommend using Level 3 DNS servers.

4.2.2.1
4.2.2.2
4.2.2.3
4.2.2.4
4.2.2.5
4.2.2.6

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08...-DNS-Hijacking

Safari on OS X, for me, is fine. It's when it's on XP that I have slowdown issues or page rendering issues. So, I use Chrome for XP instead.

[Trajectory]

Originally Posted by slapppy

I love using Safari. Problem is that's it's pretty much useless for corporate sites. Well just about any site that uses active-x, sharepoint or gov sites. Tends to break or lose functionality with most .net and .asp sites. Gotta use IE on Windows. It's why Macs are not good for corporate use.

MS Internet Explorer is the worse browser ever created. It is STILL not standards compliant when it comes to CSS2 or CSS3. I'm so tired of having to create stylesheets full of hacks just to make sites look right in IE. I don't have to do that with any other browser.

[enzos]

No permissions repairs were found necessary after this update. I use Safari 4 almost exclusively because it responds and renders faster (on a university network) and is less fussy than Firefox (which I need to use for Typo3 web-site editing.. lame as Typo3 is.). On my setup (PPC + Tiger on a Windblows network) it has been capable and perfectly stable since 4.0.1.

To those who wonder why Apple bothers: I think it is because Apple needs it as their Webkit development shell. Steve's always looking where things *will be* in a few years time and JS/html-5 for most things could be where it's at. Chrome and FF are fine browsers but they're pretty much working towards the same goals as Safari. I see MS IE as the Lennie Small of the internet, the big retard that dreams of "living off the fatta' the lan'" (and looking after rabbits?) forever more.

PS: I've found SafariBlock does a great job of reducing the clutter on most commercial pages.

[sc_markt]

Just loaded 4.0.3 and it still takes about a minute to fully open (first time from power-up).

[internetworld7]

You know, Safari 4 with it's redesigned user interface and regression of tab browsing is such a disappointer. I just can't get with Safari's new address bar and search bar UI, plus the fact that Apple took away the aqua progress bar and tabs at the top.

It's sad when your beta product is much better than the finsihed product. I had choice in Safari beta 4 but now it's Apple's way or the highway. Also has anyone ever tried to pop out video at hulu.com or tried viewing Yahoo! news videos on a 13 MacBook? Functionality of tabs is awful. It's not suppose to be this way.

Anyway I gave up on Safari and now I enjoy using Camino 2.0. There are some really nice features in store for Camino 2.0 to make it on par with feature rich browsers like Opera, Safari and Firefox. I was hoping to see that Apple included the option for tabs at the top again and the beloved elegant aqua progress bar.

[galto123]

I used only Safari until version 4. The "Top Sites" feature goes behind your back to past web-sites you've visited. You can't turn that off, even if you "turn-off" Top Sites. The loss of the blue progress bar is inexplicable, as is movement of reload button.

Top Sites bloats web-site hit counts by multiples and your disk drive by GB. It slows the machine by hogging bandwidth as it's background process hogs the network. It takes snapshots of sensitive data like e-mail, finances and passwords, storing them in cache without telling you, then popping them up for display (although the display can be turned off). Reports are that it allows kids to circumvent parental blocks.

When I get a Mac I now have to:

a) disable iSight camera (don't want, don't need, security/privacy violation)
They creepiness of a camera in every computer staring back at the room never diminishes.
b) disable Spotlight (don't want, don't need, security/privacy violation)
(I use EasyFind instead)
c) Disable Safari so no one accidentally runs it and starts filling the disk and saturating the network with web-site caching nobody needs or knows about -- very close to mal/spyware.
d) adjust room lighting to near darkness and bob my head back and forth to avoid the mirror-like reflections.
e) Pull out the adapter plugs so I can use recent/new firewire 400 peripherals Apple has "moved beyond".
f) Replace the Apple chiclet keyboard with a real one.

I've always used Apple machines, but it's getting to the point that I start wondering why I'm putting up with this.

Apple thinks they are "leading" by pushing these poorly thought-out ideas on people. They seem desperate to appear innovative, so go kooky. I just want a computer that does what I tell it to do, not what Apple thinks it should do.

It may well be that there are no GOOD new ideas for the browser concept So what? Perfect the security and improve performance. Plenty to do there.

Apple is badly misreading the situation if they think the popularity of iTunes for music downloads and iPhone for communications are models of what a fully functional computer of the future should be. They are moving toward "slick but useless or unappealing or even offensive" full throttle.

[ascii]

Check out the list of security fixes
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3733

3 different ways in there a website can execute arbitrary code on your computer.

[Lorre]

Originally Posted by sc_markt

Just loaded 4.0.3 and it still takes about a minute to fully open (first time from power-up).

Sounds like something's wrong. Unless you're on a 7 year old G4 or something like that.
On my 2 year old first gen alu iMac it opens up in about 4 seconds from cold boot. Do you perhaps open Safari with the "Top Sites" window visible? Cause that can be quite sluggish...

[DJRumpy]

Originally Posted by slapppy

I love using Safari. Problem is that's it's pretty much useless for corporate sites. Well just about any site that uses active-x, sharepoint or gov sites. Tends to break or lose functionality with most .net and .asp sites. Gotta use IE on Windows. It's why Macs are not good for corporate use.

It is embedded as an object and is support only on a Microsoft OS. If you hit a web site that uses it to the exclusion of other OS's and browsers (i.e. Mozilla, Safari, Opera, etc), then you should probably complain to the site designer.

[DJRumpy]

I'm generally very happy with Safari 4, espeically since it now has an Adblock plugin available:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/safariadblock/

I just want to know if they've fixed the VERY slow copy/paste issue I've been seeing. The system takes 2-3 seconds when copying/pasting data on some forums.

[bsenka]

Originally Posted by OC4Theo

Safari 4 is slower than Safari 3. It is supposed to faster but it is not. I thought it was because of PowerPC in my G5, but after I got a Mac Pro, same thing continues. Taker longer to load pages than Safari 3.

Any ideas?

Safari 4 is a pig, for sure. Safari 3 was significantly faster for most of the sites I visit regularly, both on Intel and on PPC, both on my Macs at home, and at the ones at work.

[DJRumpy]

Considering benchmarks are widely available I would tend to suspect the sites your visiting are poorly designed or they don't use a lot of Java:

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-272792.html

Since the performance numbers tend to be in the milliseconds, it's unlikely you would notice a 200 ms difference in performance unless Java is involved, which is tweaked quite a bit under S4.

You could always just test your rig yourself and see exactly how they stack up:

http://service.futuremark.com/peacek...tistics.action

[bsenka]

Originally Posted by DJRumpy

Considering benchmarks are widely available I would tend to suspect the sites your visiting are poorly designed or they don't use a lot of Java:

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-272792.html

Since the performance numbers tend to be in the milliseconds, it's unlikely you would notice a 200 ms difference in performance unless Java is involved, which is tweaked quite a bit under S4.

You could always just test your rig yourself and see exactly how they stack up:

http://service.futuremark.com/peacek...tistics.action

The test you linked to is PC only. the ZDnet testing doesn't compare Safari 3, only other brands of Browsers. Also, considering they claim that Safari 4 for WINDOWS is the fastest browser on that platform, I have to disregard anything they ever say again, because they are clearly just making crap up. Safari 4 for OS X is slower than Safari 3, but it's still faster than Firefox, etc. It's still the best current Mac browser, hands down. However, Safari 4 is by far the worst Windows browser there is. It's molasses slow in XP. Even IE is good in comparison.

[DJRumpy]

Originally Posted by bsenka

The test you linked to is PC only. the ZDnet testing doesn't compare Safari 3, only other brands of Browsers. Also, considering they claim that Safari 4 for WINDOWS is the fastest browser on that platform, I have to disregard anything they ever say again, because they are clearly just making crap up. Safari 4 for OS X is slower than Safari 3, but it's still faster than Firefox, etc. It's still the best current Mac browser, hands down. However, Safari 4 is by far the worst Windows browser there is. It's molasses slow in XP. Even IE is good in comparison.

Then test it yourself on your own box. The second link will let you compare browser performance on Mac, Linux, Windows, whatever. I just ran through them (warning..takes about 5 minutes per browser).

Safari 4.0.2 : 3218
Safari 4.0.3 : 4656
Firefox 3.5.2: 1750

I've also got the latest Firefox beta which I'll test in a moment. I'm surprised at how poorly a release version of FF did. Not sure why it returned such poor numbers, but it did poorly on the Canvas tests.

[DJRumpy]

Originally Posted by DJRumpy

Then test it yourself on your own box. The second link will let you compare browser performance on Mac, Linux, Windows, whatever. I just ran through them (warning..takes about 5 minutes per browser).

Safari 4.0.2 : 3218
Safari 4.0.3 : 4656
Firefox 3.5.2: 1750

I've also got the latest Firefox beta which I'll test in a moment. I'm surprised at how poorly a release version of FF did. Not sure why it returned such poor numbers, but it did poorly on the Canvas tests.

Namoroka v 3.6a1 (alpha) did a bit better than FF 3.5.2, coming in at 2336, but still far below Safari.

Safari 4.0.2 : 3218
Safari 4.0.3 : 4656
Firefox 3.5.2: 1750
Firefox 3.6a1: 2336 (alpha)

Testing Chrome (also alpha for Mac) next...

[DJRumpy]

Safari 4.0.2 : 3218
Safari 4.0.3 : 4656
Firefox 3.5.2: 1750
Firefox 3.6a1: 2336 (alpha)
Chrome 3.0.197: 2635 (alpha)

I'm surprised about the Chrome numbers as well, although it is VERY early alpha for Mac (meaning a lot of functions don't work on it).

I would be curious to see what numbers a Windows user gets back.

By the way, these were all run on an iMac 3.06 / 4GB 800Mhz DDR2 SDRAM

Here's the bechmark URL again: http://service.futuremark.com/peacekeeper/index.action

[Gustav]

Originally Posted by macFanDave

Did you try emptying the cache?

Go to OpenDNS.org and put those numbers in your Network/Airport or Ethernet/Advanced.../DNS.

Turn IPv6 to off.

Repair permissions.

Just how exactly is repairing permissions supposed to speed up a browser?

[DJRumpy]

Originally Posted by Gustav

Just how exactly is repairing permissions supposed to speed up a browser?

If a component of the browser (plugin, cache file, etc) has the incorrect permissions on it, the OS will spend time trying to access it and eventually fail, which can cause inconsistencies in app function and performance.

End the end it harms nothing to scan for and can possibly resolve issues due to permissions problems.

[Trajectory]

Originally Posted by galto123

When I get a Mac I now have to:

a) disable iSight camera (don't want, don't need, security/privacy violation)
They creepiness of a camera in every computer staring back at the room never diminishes.
b) disable Spotlight (don't want, don't need, security/privacy violation)
(I use EasyFind instead)
c) Disable Safari so no one accidentally runs it and starts filling the disk and saturating the network with web-site caching nobody needs or knows about -- very close to mal/spyware.
d) adjust room lighting to near darkness and bob my head back and forth to avoid the mirror-like reflections.
e) Pull out the adapter plugs so I can use recent/new firewire 400 peripherals Apple has "moved beyond".
f) Replace the Apple chiclet keyboard with a real one.

Perhaps you should just buy a DELL computer.

[talksense101]

Originally Posted by galto123

I used only Safari until version 4. The "Top Sites" feature goes behind your back to past web-sites you've visited. You can't turn that off, even if you "turn-off" Top Sites. The loss of the blue progress bar is inexplicable, as is movement of reload button.

Top Sites bloats web-site hit counts by multiples and your disk drive by GB. It slows the machine by hogging bandwidth as it's background process hogs the network. It takes snapshots of sensitive data like e-mail, finances and passwords, storing them in cache without telling you, then popping them up for display (although the display can be turned off). Reports are that it allows kids to circumvent parental blocks.

Submit a bug report to Apple if kids can indeed use top sites to by pass parental controls. Again, submit a bug if you think top sites is working when it is turned off. You might to do it with reproducible steps.

When I get a Mac I now have to:

a) disable iSight camera (don't want, don't need, security/privacy violation)
They creepiness of a camera in every computer staring back at the room never diminishes.

Hmm...

b) disable Spotlight (don't want, don't need, security/privacy violation)
(I use EasyFind instead)

If you RTFM you can easily figure out how to configure spotlight to index what you want it to. There is no violation here as it indexes things you have permission to.

c) Disable Safari so no one accidentally runs it and starts filling the disk and saturating the network with web-site caching nobody needs or knows about -- very close to mal/spyware.

Submit a bug report with proof.

d) adjust room lighting to near darkness and bob my head back and forth to avoid the mirror-like reflections.

Ok.

e) Pull out the adapter plugs so I can use recent/new firewire 400 peripherals Apple has "moved beyond".

You don't need adapter plugs. The firewire is an industry standard. Just go to the electronics store and buy a firewire cable 9pin to 4pin to attach your camera or buy a 9pin to 6pin to attach your hard disk.

f) Replace the Apple chiclet keyboard with a real one.

The chicket works well and the keys aren't cramped. You want a keyboard that represents the old mechanical typewriters?

I've always used Apple machines, but it's getting to the point that I start wondering why I'm putting up with this.

Apple thinks they are "leading" by pushing these poorly thought-out ideas on people. They seem desperate to appear innovative, so go kooky. I just want a computer that does what I tell it to do, not what Apple thinks it should do.

It may well be that there are no GOOD new ideas for the browser concept So what? Perfect the security and improve performance. Plenty to do there.

Provide feedback. Also, if snow leopard doesn't represent Apple's commitment to performance, I don't know what can convince you.

Apple is badly misreading the situation if they think the popularity of iTunes for music downloads and iPhone for communications are models of what a fully functional computer of the future should be. They are moving toward "slick but useless or unappealing or even offensive" full throttle.

If they do that, they will fail, but I think common sense prevails.

p.s> either welcome to the boards or bye bye troll.

[sc_markt]

Hmmm, I just found out something new (that's probably known) that Safari can do. If you have two windows open, you can drag a tab from one window to the other window.

[DJRumpy]

Did anyone ever test the browser speed on a Windows box? I'm curious how they stack up but too lazy to boot into my Win7 partition.

If no one does by this afternoon I'll give it a spin.