Apple expected to push for greater living room presence

[AppleInsider]

A new market analysis predicts that an update or overhaul to the Apple TV could arrive soon, perhaps with iTunes TV show subscriptions and DVR capabilities.

Gene Munster, senior research analyst with Piper Jaffray, said in a note Thursday that he believes a new Apple TV will arrive in the next several months. Beyond that, he believes the company will launch a "connected television" in 2011.

Munster suggests a new Apple TV would bolster iTunes video purchases with a subscription model. He cites the popularity of Hulu and Netflix Watch Instantly as a reason Apple should offer iTunes video subscriptions.

"Apple could leverage its deep library of content with many network and cable channel content owners to provide unlimited access to a sub-library of its TV shows for a standard monthly fee ($30 or $40 per month)," Munster writes. "Such a product would effectively replace a consumer's monthly cable bill (~$85/month) and offer access to current and older episodes of select shows on select channels."

Munster goes on to say that he believes the timing could be impacted by the negotiations Apple would need to conduct in order to have the rights to offer a subscription model. However, he predicts that when a deal is finalized, Apple would simultaneously release the offering with a new Apple TV, or updated Apple TV software, within the next year.

He predicts that Apple will become more aggressive in the living room, citing a number of factors, including:

Apple executive Tim Cook said on a recent earnings call that the company would "continue to invest" in the Apple TV.

Patents the Cupertino, Calif., company has filed regarding TV recording.

A five-year, $500 million agreement with LG Electronics for supply of LCD screens.

An upgraded Apple TV with subscription capabilities, the analyst says, could access the device's untapped potential.

As for the "Apple Television," Munster believes that is a long-term goal for the company, within the next two to five years. He suggests such a device would have DVDR and home media center functionality built in to the set. Recorded shows, he predicts, could sync with other Apple devices, like Macs, iPhones and iPods, all wirelessly.

"The device would push apple further into the digital living room with interactive TV, music, movie and gaming features (with the iPhone or iPod touch as a game controller)," Munster states. "Such a device would command a premium among the competitive field of budget TVs."

Munster acknowledges that TV hardware is a "challenging business," but the analyst expects that Apple would "change the rules of the game," as it has done in the phone market.

Piper Jaffray has said before that it expects Apple to offer both a connected television, and Apple TV with DVR. A similar report was issued earlier this year, though Thursday's new analysis provides more recent examples to justify the prediction.

[not_too_shabby]

Sounds cool, but I think the problem we are going to have here is the cable companies comcasts, cox, etc are going to have an issue with people pulling all their TV service off of their high speed internet connection. Especially when these people start canceling their cable. Expect comcast to fire back with lower monthly download caps unless you subscribe to their cable tv service.

[al_bundy]

until apple sets up a system where i can automatically download everything i bought, anytime, anywhere for any reason i'm sticking with physical media.

i've bought a few PC games on Steam and that's the way it works. you can download anything you bought anytime on as many computers as you want

and the x-box and PS3 both offer more features than the Apple TV for less money

[gmcalpin]

Add DVR functionality at the current price point, and I'm sold.

[Dlux]

An upgraded Apple TV with subscription capabilities, the analyst says, could access the device's untapped potential.

If by "subscription capabilities" he means "downloadable porn", I would have to agree.

[Dlux]

Originally Posted by gmcalpin

Add DVR functionality at the current price point, and I'm sold.

Add a BluRay player, and I could consolidate all of my living room electronics into this plus an amplifier. Although right now my Mac Mini (sans BluRay capabilities) is a fair substitute.

[Magic_Al]

Adding Mini DisplayPort would let AppleTV work with the 24" LED Cinema Display for a pretty self-contained Apple TV.

[charlituna]

Originally Posted by not_too_shabby

Sounds cool, but I think the problem we are going to have here is the cable companies comcasts, cox, etc are going to have an issue with people pulling all their TV service off of their high speed internet connection. Especially when these people start canceling their cable. Expect comcast to fire back with lower monthly download caps unless you subscribe to their cable tv service.

actually the two are basically using the same bandwidth. and Comcast among others offers a discount when you have both services. so what you will see is a rate increase and then when someone cuts cable they lose that $10-15 a month discount. which helps to make up the diff

right now the issue is probably more exclusive contracts with places like Hulu and Netflix which will bare other companies from doing a streaming service. the same as on air rights force said companies and even Itunes from dropping some shows and movies for periods of time

[bdkennedy1]

They sure are taking their sweet 'ol time with it.

[bobringer]

Originally Posted by not_too_shabby

Sounds cool, but I think the problem we are going to have here is the cable companies comcasts, cox, etc are going to have an issue with people pulling all their TV service off of their high speed internet connection. Especially when these people start canceling their cable. Expect comcast to fire back with lower monthly download caps unless you subscribe to their cable tv service.

Well... the cable companies are going to get what they deserve. They tie up cablecard FOREVER... just so they can tell you to use THEIR box?

Dumb, dumb, dumb...

Did they really think they were going to own the box forever? If they had just worked with companies like Apple and allowed us to use a two-way card in any device we wanted... I'd sure be a lot more likely to stay with cable than I am now.

Idiots... What did controlling the box really do for them other than piss people off?

[al_bundy]

Originally Posted by not_too_shabby

Sounds cool, but I think the problem we are going to have here is the cable companies comcasts, cox, etc are going to have an issue with people pulling all their TV service off of their high speed internet connection. Especially when these people start canceling their cable. Expect comcast to fire back with lower monthly download caps unless you subscribe to their cable tv service.

the TV runs on a different frequency than the internet. i already have a time warner DVR that i pay $10 a month for that includes HD recording. my wife has been bugging me for a new DVD player because the one we have has terrible colors. looking to replace it with a PS3. if the mini gets a blu-ray drive next month or early 2010 i'll put it on the list

unless the Apple TV gets a big overhaul or some new device comes out at a reasonable price point i'm not going with apple

[mstone]

I don't get the part about

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

effectively replace a consumer's monthly cable bill

I get my high speed internet from the cable service.

[archer75]

For me to buy it I need 7.1 audio over HDMI(display port is fine with adapter) and a much much greater support for video/audio formats and containers. I don't care about getting content from apple as much as I care about playing the content I already have on it. Such as my blu-ray rips in MKV containers with FLAC audio.

[archer75]

Originally Posted by mstone

I don't get the part about



I get my high speed internet from the cable service.

it's talking about cable tv. You could replace that bill. You don't have to have cable tv to have cable internet. I've never had cable tv but i've had cable internet for years.

[Dlux]

Originally Posted by mstone

I get my high speed internet from the cable service.

I think 'monthly cable bill' is short-hand for cable television bill, or at least that component of the bill. Yeah, the terminology has gotten mixed lately.

Edit: clarified in previous post.

[AppleZilla]

How about True Progressive HD Resolution? Which, Apple, is 1920 x 1080.

[saarek]

I have been putting off the purchase of an Apple TV for about 6 months awaiting a hardware refresh, come on Apple hurry up!

[domdn]

Apple shoulda gone for Samsung or Panasonic. Both best in classes (the former in terms of value, the second in terms of quality). Apple will typically charge at a premium and LG products just don't match the typical price points that Apple enters at.
Also, up to this point I haven't seen a reason for Apple TV - it seems like an experiment not a value-delivering product.

[hillstones]

Munster is full of it as usual. Apple would have to make box that supports cable and satellite if they want DVR features to appeal to the masses. Also, you won't be able to transfer shows between devices or your computer because the content providers are already restricting such activities for HD programs. HBO now locks True Blood from being transferred from TiVo. Discovery HD even locked all Shark Week programs too. This is of course to prevent piracy with existing BluRay recorders since they could burn the transferred HD content without loss. Since Apple wants iTunes only purchases it is doubtful they will break into the cable/sat market.

[city]

Verizon owns my living room with Window compatible FiOS. I wish they would team with Apple.

[MissionGrey]

Originally Posted by saarek

I have been putting off the purchase of an Apple TV for about 6 months awaiting a hardware refresh, come on Apple hurry up!

Me too!

[TenoBell]

Apple already uses LG LCD panels and they're very good.

Panasonic doesn't manufacture LCD panels. Sony, Samsung, and LG are the major LCD panel manufacturers.

Originally Posted by domdn

Apple shoulda gone for Samsung or Panasonic. Both best in classes (the former in terms of value, the second in terms of quality). Apple will typically charge at a premium and LG products just don't match the typical price points that Apple enters at.
.

[Hattig]

I'd expect a new Apple TV as well.

It appears that the iPhone 3GS can decode 1080p at 30mbps already.

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/20/...ideo-playback/

So it makes sense for them to utilise the iPhone 3GS SoC in a revision of the Apple TV, because it is more integrated than the old, expensive chipset solution they're using currently.

Or maybe they're waiting for their own in-house SoC, but either way, it's such an obvious cost cutting that I'd be surprised if Apple didn't do it. I'd sooner expect them to cancel the Apple TV, to be honest.

[antkm1]

Wow, so much to comment on here. Let's start with the aTV. I'm looking forward to Sept. 9th even more now with all this hype and news about a product i would buy if they beefed it up. Which it sounds like they will eventually. A good frist start would be to put a modified version of the iPhone/Touch OS on the aTV. Include internet browsing, the ability to control the aTV from a iPhone/Touch or include a Wii-style remote with fold-out keyboard. Man, woudl the App Store sales shine after introducing that.

Next the DVR ideas with the aTV. Well, it's about time. However, I really doubt that this will happen soon. First you'd have to somehow work out a deal with all the various Cable companies to allow the box to work, or just go the TiVo route, which seems to be not a good idea, considering it seems like everyone has a DVR now and it's seems pretty pointless to purchase a DVR when your cable/SATV provider will rent you one for around $10 a month. I love my MOXI box and i would gladly get an aTV without a DVR.

Now, with iTunes subscription services. Well, sounds like a missed opportunity for Apple. I have the Netflix account that's unlimited rentals @ 3 at a time for 18 bucks and i can't see how Apple can compete with that, and we watch 3 DVD's per week on minimum. Maybe by shifting the focus to live and new streaming content will iTunes be able to compete. But then there's HULU and others, not to mention most networks broadcast their current shows streaming for free as well. $30-$40 a month is WAY TOO STEEP! Unless it was for unlimited downloads, both music and Video, and just to rent? I'll stick with the pay-as-you-go and supplement with Netflix.

Sure my cable bill is about $85 a month (maybe higher), but Apple couldn't possible work out deals with all the programs that i watch. they only contain about 25%-30% of the show i watch anyway, and they don't even have all the seasons of those shows.

Now for the future Apple Television (as not to be confused with the box). Well, that seems like a market that Apple doesn't want to mess with if you ask my opinion. The TV market is way to saturated and seems like Apple would just loose out, they may cater to the upper 10% of the market, and they may be happy with that. But to come into the game this late, just sounds like a waste of time. What could Apple possibly offer than nobody else has already figured out? Yes, integration with the computer is coming, but i've been hearing that story for about 6-7 years already and haven't seen anything really promising.

[mstone]

Originally Posted by Dlux

I think 'monthly cable bill' is short-hand for cable television bill, or at least that component of the bill. Yeah, the terminology has gotten mixed lately.

I get it but he is saying $85 which sounds about what I pay for both TV and internet, and I would guess that the internet alone would be priced higher than the portion of your bill that is discounted for two services. Some of my neighbors also get their phone from the cable service. At any rate I don't buy into the argument because a lot of people, me included, watch a fair amount of sports, news and financial reports which aren't really that compelling the the next day. I really don't see Apple having live local news.

[Maestro64]

Many of you make some good points, however content owner only block you from coping and transferring original digital content as it comes down the pipe. However, you can still record content after it been converted from the original digital content to the analog signal the feeds the TV and then re-digitize it and store it on your Tivo or DVR.

Also, what you may or may not be aware of if you have a cable company DVR the content on that box is locked to that box, if for any reason your box dies so does your content with that box, you can not recover it since content is encrypted as it is stored on the HDD using the unique serial number of the encoder chip.

I do not believe Apple will release a true Set Top Box DVR product until OCAP or Trueway is fully release by the broadcast industry, since Cablecard is only manufactured and sold by Motorola and Motorola is the largest STB manufacturer in the world today and Apple would not want them knowing what they were up too. I believe Apple will wait until OCAP software encryption is avaliable and they base a product on that technology. Remember that apple work with Motorola on the ROKR phone and had not clue that the iphone was in the works.

Once this is available you will be able to get a STB from any manufacturer and bring it home and hook it to your cable and not have to rent a STB like you do today and you will be able to get new feature that the cable companies have been very slow in implement.

Today cable companies are beginning to charge more for internet access even of you get vidoe or phone from them since they know get content via IP verse Digital QAM is already happening.

So if apple comes out with a True STB DVR you will be able to record content and do with it as you like, such as transfer it to your computer or iphone. However, I bet it will contain a finger print that if you share it with other that will no where the source came from, That is part of the OCAP requirements.

I am not too concern on who apple partner with concerning LCD technologies, since their quality and technologies standards are higher than all the others in the industry. Apple demand high quality and will not take less from any manufacture. Also, LG and Samsung are almost the same company they share same facility in Korea where they build LCD displays and I can tell Samsung is not the best quality out there, they actually pretty poor.

[Ireland]

Originally Posted by Magic_Al

Adding Mini DisplayPort would let AppleTV work with the 24" LED Cinema Display for a pretty self-contained Apple TV.

Oh gawd.

[Ireland]

A TV eh?

[sticknick]

...gaming features (with the iPhone or iPod touch as a game controller)

This interests me greatly

[freeny]

Originally Posted by gmcalpin

Add DVR functionality at the current price point, and I'm sold.

Ditto for me.

Ive always said, if iTV could replace my horrible Tivo id buy it in a second.

[Muncie]

Apple, please add international football (soccer) channels/ games to your TV lineup: FSC, GolTV, Setanta, ESPN2. There is a huge pent up demand in the USA for on-demand broadcasts of games played in Europe, South America, Africa, Asia, Oceania, etc..

Live sports? Even better.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by bdkennedy1

They sure are taking their sweet 'ol time with it.

Does this mean ATV will finally be elevated above "hobby" status?

[Logisticaldron]

Originally Posted by domdn

Apple shoulda gone for Samsung or Panasonic. Both best in classes (the former in terms of value, the second in terms of quality). Apple will typically charge at a premium and LG products just don't match the typical price points that Apple enters at.
Also, up to this point I haven't seen a reason for Apple TV - it seems like an experiment not a value-delivering product.

The agreement is surely for panels, not for TVs. The idea that Apple will make a million different TVs to sell is absurd. The best option for an AppleTV that is connected to a TV is a bolt-on device among many manufacturers with a standard hookup. The input (ethernet, 802.11) and output (component, HDMI) are standard so only the attachment and box size needs to be standardized.

Originally Posted by hillstones

Munster is full of it as usual. […] Since Apple wants iTunes only purchases it is doubtful they will break into the cable/sat market.

Yes he is. Much of this article made no sense from a business standpoint. The speculation about what Apple will do always gets out of hand. If they go with a Blu-ray player in the AppleTV they risk hurting some iTunes Store content sales/rentals. If they go with a DVR, the same thing but also risk hurting their relationships with TV content holders. If they don’t do this the AppleTV may never get sold in large enough quantities to make the impact they want. It’s tricky, but a lot less tricky than it was in September 2006 when it was introduced.

Originally Posted by Hattig

I'd sooner expect them to cancel the Apple TV, to be honest.

Impossible. While it’s far from perfect the living room for iTunes and for your home network is the final frontier that has yet to be dominated by a single vendor. Apple is the farthest along with the AppleTV for standalone media extenders, but consoles and DVRs are getting there quickly making the standalone media extenders somewhat moot. Apple needs the AppleTV and the path for the future is final open. No more HD-DVD v. Blu-ray war, no more wondering if the MPAA will sell/rent movies on iTunes Store. We have digital streaming of TV Shows and YouTube in HD and so much more than when the AppleTV was first announced as iTV. It’s here to stay and this “hobby” can not go away or Apple loses a part of their iTunes monopoly that may eventually wear away iTunes as the heart of our media organization. The only question is how will move to secure the next AppleTV as the popular media extender. I hope they make an AppleTV OS X SDK so that developers can take advantage of it.

[paxman]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

"Apple could leverage its deep library of content with many network and cable channel content owners to provide unlimited access to a sub-library of its TV shows for a standard monthly fee ($30 or $40 per month)," Munster writes. "Such a product would effectively replace a consumer's monthly cable bill (~$85/month) and offer access to current and older episodes of select shows on select channels."

Now there's a bag of hurt if I ever saw one. Having said that - as long as the cable companies gain from the deal they might be willing to open a dialogue.

Personally I'd like to see an aTV with PVR, DVD / BR, and an iTunes stores with a 'deep library of rental content - like several thousands of movies. I would also like to see a way in which my aTV can replace my cable box. You know, a card slot with a card from my cable co. Hell definitely will freeze over before this happens but I feel we entering dreamland here so why not. Television could be great but unfortunately I can't see it happening. This is one are where I think consumers will always loose.

[Logisticaldron]

Originally Posted by teckstud

Does this mean ATV will finally be elevated above "hobby" status?

Why are always a jerk to everyone and so negative about everything? The AppleTV is clearly a placeholder device. Until this catch 22 situation gets sorted it’s going to be a hobby. With everything that has happened since the original iTV announcement I think that this hobby placeholder will finally be the 4th leg to Apple’s business machine soon.

[concentricity]

So, a couple people have commented about Netflix offering being a good value, and I completely agree...I LOVE having 3 DVDs _plus_ free streaming for about $18/month. And I can see how agreements in place between Netflix and content providers could potentially be a problem for Apple's push into the livingroom. But I think I have a very simple solution...but it involves math, so bear with me....

AAPL = $148.88 Billion
NFLX = $2.6 Billion

Apple has over $5.6 billion in CASH and over $24 billion liquid.

AAPL + NFLX = media and consumer company to rule them all.

And tell me it wouldn't be a great image...Uncle Steve calling a press conference, calling Reed Hastings up on stage, and presenting him with a check for $2.6 billion. Reed hands over the keys.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by Logisticaldron

Impossible. While it’s far from perfect the living room for iTunes and for your home network is the final frontier that has yet to be dominated by a single vendor. Apple is the farthest along with the AppleTV for standalone media extenders, but consoles and DVRs are getting there quickly making the standalone media extenders somewhat moot. Apple needs the AppleTV and the path for the future is final open. No more HD-DVD v. Blu-ray war, no more wondering if the MPAA will sell/rent movies on iTunes Store. We have digital streaming of TV Shows and YouTube in HD and so much more than when the AppleTV was first announced as iTV. It’s here to stay and this “hobby” can not go away or Apple loses a part of their iTunes monopoly that may eventually wear away iTunes as the heart of our media organization. The only question is how will move to secure the next AppleTV as the popular media extender. I hope they make an AppleTV OS X SDK so that developers can take advantage of it.

Nothing is impossible as related to this "hobby" which has yet to move significantly after 2 1/2 years. It should be canned and merged into the MacMini. In fact all Apple needs to do is add HDMI to the Mini- end of story.
Buy a MacMini instead and get Safari and so much more- and not at that much more of a co$t.
Even MacWorld suggests doing that as a better option.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by Logisticaldron

Why are always a jerk to everyone and so negative about everything? The AppleTV is clearly a placeholder device. Until this catch 22 situation gets sorted it’s going to be a hobby. With everything that has happened since the original iTV announcement I think that this hobby placeholder will finally be the 4th leg to Apple’s business machine soon.

Listen AppleTV fanboy - you don't know what you're talking about. I am not negative about everything - only this lemon, the AppleTV, which you apparently alone think is the best thing since sliced bread.

[Robodude]

I'd suggest they extend that functionality to music. Unlimited movies, music and television would be awesome, providing Apple and the guys can make it profitable (for them) and affordable (for us). The 360 is quickly becoming a home media hub due to it being more open (Netflix, Sky TV and the music store). Apple should add more functionality to the Apple TV. Like allowing for physical media and DVR capabilities. Every company is restricted by their bottom line, with Apple it's all too apparent in the Apple TV which is basically tied to (read: crippled by) the iTunes store. They should at least make something to rival Windows Media Centre.

I'll look forward to music, movies, television and gaming on an Apple TV. Maybe...

[antkm1]

Originally Posted by concentricity

Apple has over $5.6 billion in CASH and over $24 billion liquid.

AAPL + NFLX = media and consumer company to rule them all.

And tell me it wouldn't be a great image...Uncle Steve calling a press conference, calling Reed Hastings up on stage, and presenting him with a check for $2.6 billion. Reed hands over the keys.

So corporate buy-outs of competition makes you smile? Very sad to see that from an Apple supporter.