Microsoft unleashes retail talking points attacking Linux, Macs

***AppleInsider*** · 09-08-2009, 04:56 PM

In preparation for the launch of Windows 7, Microsoft has created ExpertZone "training courses" using controversial talking point programing to dissuade retail employees from selling customers Linux PCs or Macs, and arms them with "facts" to use in upselling Windows PC users on expensive service plans.

The private trainings consist of a series of claims about how Windows 7 compares to Linux or Apple's offerings, followed by a "quiz" that tells retail employees they are "incorrect" if they don't parrot back the talking points as their answers.

BestBuy and other retail employees can earn a $10 copy of Windows 7 for completing the training. The training course attacking Linux has been covered by other sources, including Overclock.net, where one reader commented, "I think I now know why, when I enter BestBuy, the employees say the odd lies that they do."

Microsoft is also publishing a series attacking Macs, and AppleInsider has obtained the first screenshots publicly published of this training series for retail employees. The first page of the course, outlining its "objectives," says customers get "a lot more computer with a Windows-based PC than a Mac," that PCs run more software programs and "come in a wide variety of colors and configurations," and claims that "customers have less to learn to get started with a Windows 7-based PC."

Save and Spend

"It's possible to get a PC with the same hardware specs as a Mac and save up to $300," the second page says, followed by the line, "By saving your customer money, it's easier to attach products and service plans to the sale."

Using BestBuy's GeekSquad service team, that $300 in customer savings will pay for two virus and spyware removal sessions. If the user wants help to install new software, BestBuy charges $50 per title extra. They'll configure a print server or "iTouch" to work on your home network for just $80 per device, and check the security of your network for another $80. They's walk you through how to use your iPod for $50, and provide a troubleshooting session for it for another $50. Email setup costs $50, and a troubleshooting session costs $70. The customer can also add a thirty minute "Windows basic training" and an half hour "Office troubleshooting session" for $50 each.

Microsoft's training does not note that the Apple Store provides these services for free (although Mac "virus and spyware removals" are not in big demand), it just suggests that BestBuy employees sell users on a cheaper PC that will stoke demand for overpriced support fees and service programs. Save customers "up to $300" on hardware, then talk them into spending more than that on PC maintenance.

Our MobileMe is Free

On the third page of the training, Microsoft says, "Windows Live is FREE. Apple's online service costs $99/year." It outlines Windows Live features including Messenger IM and Hotmail, both of which are also free to Mac users.

Windows Live also includes applications that were formerly bundled with Windows Vista, but which are now a free but optional download for Windows 7. These include Windows Mail (formerly called Outlook Express; comparable to Mac OS X Mail.app), Windows Photo Gallery (comparable to iPhoto), Movie Maker (comparable to iMovie), Writer (comparable to iWeb) and Family Safety (a feature similar to Mac OS X's built-in Parental Controls).

Microsoft is comparing free software it removed from Windows Vista and turned into a optional download for Windows 7 with Apple's completely different MobileMe service. The apps Windows users must download from Windows Live are already bundled with new Macs, including others that Microsoft doesn't note, such as GarageBand, iDVD and Preview. Reviewers also don't equate Photo Gallery and Movie Maker to the richer feature set of iPhoto and iMovie.

Additionally, there's no comparison between MobileMe's actual features and Windows Live offerings. The free service Microsoft offers doesn't include anything comparable to iDisk, Back to My Mac, push-messaging and synchronized mobile and desktop calendars and contacts for cross platform users.

On page 2 of 3: More colors and fine tuning; Personalize the PC; More software choices, particularly from Microsoft; More Games; and INCORRECT!

More colors and fine tuning

The training continues with a fourth page highlighting more software, the latest games, and the ability of retail employees to "fine-tune" their computer recommendations to their customer's needs. "With a Mac, your customers' choices are limited," the training materials say.

Microsoft has used this tack as the basis for its "Laptop Hunters" ad campaign. An analysis of the fine-tuned options that generic PC buyers portrayed in the ads ended up with reveals that customers like actress Lauren actually got a poor quality screen, lower screen resolution, slower WiFi, no Gigabit Ethernet, no digital audio ports, more bulk and more weight.

Limited to options provided by Apple, customers have no way to end up with a PC sporting old, obsolete WiFi and Ethernet networking; a poorly engineered, heavy system; or a laptop screen purporting to be 17" while only offering the resolution of a 15" display. Microsoft doesn't note this in its training.

Personalize the PC

Next, Microsoft notes that "Windows 7 comes with many new themes, so your customers have more options for making their computer reflect their personal taste." This includes backgrounds, "glass colors," unique sound schemes, a custom screen saver, and a "custom photo slide show on the desktop."

How factory-supplied wallpapers help customers "reflect their personal taste" is not specified, but Microsoft also omits that Mac OS X not only supplies its own backgrounds and screen savers (including photo slide shows), but also provides a graphical programing language in the free Quartz Composer, which enables non-programers to visually remix their own content to build their own backgrounds, screen savers, and even video effects for iChat IM and Photo Booth. Screen savers can pull data from a live RSS feed or from websites such as Wikipedia.

Windows 7 might allow users to tint their Vista-Aero glass effects, but Mac OS X enables users to actually customize their video chats and build interactive Quartz Compositions that can be used by various applications. Mac OS X also supports customized Audio Units for creating music and sound effects, which can be used in the included GarageBand or the more advanced Logic pro apps for serious music composition. Personalization isn't achieved by coloring inside the lines with a set of corporate crayons.

More software choices, particularly from Microsoft

Microsoft next presents the horrors that await customers who switch to a Mac: "they will have to: live without most of the latest games and some software titles, re-purchase Mac versions of software hey already own for Windows (if they're available), accept that many Mac title are not as full-featured as Windows version (e.g. QuickBooks Pro)."

A series of graphs point out the percentage of the top 25 PC apps that are available for the Mac, starting with 44% of business and productivity apps (Microsoft notes that its own Access database is not available for the Mac, but doesn't mention that alternatives such as FileMaker Pro and Bento are).

Among top PC communication and Internet apps, Microsoft says only 28% are Mac-savvy, specifically noting Outlook, a title Microsoft only offers in a very reduced version for Mac users under the name Entourage. Ironically, Microsoft has announced publicly that it will soon be selling a new version of Outlook for Mac users, but it doesn't note that anywhere in its anti-Mac training session. It also doesn't point out that it ships its own Office suite for Mac users.

In finance apps, Microsoft says the Mac only has 48% of the top PC apps available. Microsoft cites Quicken 2009, again highlighting the terrible job Intuit has done in supporting Mac users. Its CEO, Bill Campbell, also sits on Apple's board, making this stab particularly painful. However, the company has shipped QuickBooks 2009 and has announced plans to support Mac users better in the future (including support for Online Payroll), something that Microsoft has no reason to emphasize. A ground up rewrite of Quicken for Mac, designed to take full advantage of new Mac OS X features, is slated for next year.

Among personal productivity apps, Microsoft only gives the Mac 8% of the top PC titles, citing "HGTV Home Design and Remodeling." On Amazon, that title was given as many one and two star ratings as it got in five star ratings, with top users' reviews posting comments that called it "disappointing" and "so difficult I've given up."

Microsoft doesn't mention the free iLife applications that ship with the Mac, the Mac-only iWork suite of apps Apple sells at shareware prices, and Apple's Pro Apps that are also exclusive to the Mac, including prosumer and professional versions of Final Cut and Logic. Some of those features are brought up in Apple's "Get a Mac" ads, which have helped induce the PC switching wave that has put Microsoft on the defensive.

More Games

The next punch is Microsoft's strongest blow, pointing out that Macs natively only run 12 of the top 25 PC games. It might seem surprising that the figure is even that high, given Microsoft's strength in PC gaming. However, in touting its proprietary DirectX 11, which is only available to the minority of PC users running Windows Vista/7, Microsoft also forgets that Macs can also run Windows natively at full speed.

Microsoft makes no mention of BootCamp. Isn't Microsoft in the business of selling Windows rather than PCs? That may be the case, but Microsoft knows that users who switch to the Mac have the option to run Windows, but will actually create more demand for Mac-only titles. That's already happening. This forces Microsoft to support sales of generic PC sales against the "Mac," making no distinction that Macs can also run Windows, and therefore have no problem playing PC games.

INCORRECT!

Microsoft now leads retail employees through three review questions to see if they've been paying attention. If "your customers have less to learn with a Windows-based PC" is rated as a myth rather than fact, the training replies "INCORRECT" in red.

The "real facts," Microsoft says, is that "most of your customers have already used Windows ether at work or at home," and that "new features, security and reliability make Windows 7 a familiar, but better choice." Since the vast majority of PC users are actually working with Windows XP, why will the new features of Windows 7, which look a lot more like Mac OS X than XP, be more familiar to them? Microsoft doesn't say.

If employees agree that "Macs are a better value than a PC because you get more for your money," they again get reprimanded with full caps in red ink. Again, Microsoft says "its [sic] possible to get a PC with the same hardware specs as a Mac and save up to $300. Windows Live is free. Apple's online service costs $99/year." Time to move to the next question.

Anyone who questions that "Windows 7 is compatible with more software and games than a Mac" is again hit with red marks. "Many mac software titles are not as full featured and available as the Windows versions," Microsoft says, adding that, of the top 25 PC games, "only 12 are available on a Mac [OS X system that doesn't have a BootCamp Windows partition]." (Some of those details were not actually presented in Microsoft's training materials, of course.)

On page 3 of 3: The Quiz

The Quiz

The training materials next present four features in Windows 7:

* "Snap" window positioning
* The bundled Windows Media Center DVR application
* "Jump lists," a new name for Recent Items
* Location Aware Printing, a feature that changes the default printer to the current location.

That last feature only works under the $300 Windows 7 Professional edition (a $200 upgrade from XP or Vista, although Amazon says "we recommend that you experience Windows 7 on a new PC") or other more expensive editions. It does not work under Home Premium.

Microsoft says none of these are available on the Mac. It's true, the Jump List feature that "opens files in just two clicks from the task bar" is not called that on the Mac, and only requires one click under Recent Items under the Apple menu. There are also other features unique to both Windows and the Mac. But are these four features really the strongest Microsoft can include in its sales pitch training for Windows 7? Apple calls most of Snow Leopard's new features "refinements," but may are more significant and useful.

Completing the course requires matching the four feature blurbs to their brand name. For completing this, participants get a $10 copy of Windows 7.

Microsoft's retail training program indicates a defensive posture against Apple's mounting direct retail sales, both in its own retail stores and in the "store within a store" merchandizing done with retails such as BestBuy.

Whether the company will use the same tactics in its public advertising remains to be seen. If it does, it will expose itself to charges of false claims and deceptive comparisons, which could cause the same blowback as the company's earlier Mojave Experiment and Laptop Hunter campaigns.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

OPTIK · 09-08-2009, 05:06 PM

Here we go agin

iCarbon · 09-08-2009, 05:08 PM

My god! I'm selling my mac and buying a PC!!!!!

what have I been thinking all these years!

LoonyPandora · 09-08-2009, 05:12 PM

Not going out of your way to advertise a competitors services isn't exactly "lying" - This presentation is just about right for a PC orientated sales pitch.

Apple Sales Training is just as biased.

Move along, nothing to see here...

camroidv27 · 09-08-2009, 05:14 PM

This article is written much like the training its railing upon. Some of the things that the "training" say are indeed false (Like the background images and such), but some of the things it says are true.

Either way, both canidates throw up a good fight. I wish that MS would just let go of its comparison to Apple. Also, I'd LOVE it if Apple and its fans would be big enough to do the same and stop putting down MS and its users.

Also, maybe I skipped over it, but where was all this "against Linux" in the training screenshots? I guess I have to go to the site itself to be horribly offended. And maybe I too can get a 10 dollar copy of Win 7? That'd be nice!

But yeah, articles and trainings like this make me mad, so away I go!

anantksundaram · 09-08-2009, 05:17 PM

Why would this company do something like this!?

Instead, shouldn't they have a training manual on how to 'upsell' Mac users on the need for a dual OSX/W7 boot-up capability?

Guartho · 09-08-2009, 05:17 PM

I always assumed that the outright lies of Best Buy employees were a result of overzealous sales staff going after high-commission warranty sales and other add-on sales. I'm saddened to learn that they're official corporate policy.

teckstud · 09-08-2009, 05:18 PM

The Empire Strikes back!

saarek · 09-08-2009, 05:21 PM

To be fair the first training page was reasonably accurate, the rest was BS.

Still all of the people I have switched don't want to switch back to Windows thats for sure.

jlandd · 09-08-2009, 05:27 PM

Unfortunately for Apple fans who work in sales, not only are Mac margins lower but there's practically no opportunity for upsells, while the PC world lives on them.

It's funny because BB just jumped through a million hoops to land the Apple retail gig and now Apple may well yank it from them.

womble2k2 · 09-08-2009, 05:33 PM

There appears to be some Windows 7 information missing;
1. How to inform your customers about security, and that they need to slow their PC down by 10% by installing ant-virus and anti-malware software.
2. How to inform customers about what to do if the PC crashes with BSOD or similar.
3. Informing customers about the activation system, system slow downs as you load more software, etc, etc
4. explaining to customers why installing Windows 7 will occupy as much as 18 gigs of hard disk space.
5. explaining to customers how they should get help or advice if things go wrong (contact you computer manufacturers premium rate number, they will run through a script and then ask you to re-install the OS, you can also purchase support from MS or third parties). We [MS] currently do not have a genius bar.

Could go on forever, but you get my point. If I was a customer walking into a shop after this training, I would be asking to see the evidence of their claims. If they cannot back them up, I don't make a purchase. Simple.

Phil

ulfoaf · 09-08-2009, 05:34 PM

Controversial to sell their own stuff? Nah. Controversial for retailers to believe their snow, yes.

hezekiahb · 09-08-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teckstud

The Empire Strikes back!

Wow, Microsoft is desperate. They need to talk about how much of my time I waste if I ever need support on a PC. That is the single biggest oversight when they compare Macs & PCs in business, they forget to add up time wasted on crashing PCs both by the end user & by the help desk support. Time is money people, time is money!

satchmo · 09-08-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Using BestBuy's GeekSquad service team, that $300 in customer savings will pay for two virus and spyware removal sessions.

What about all the other one thousand viruses?

Plus not to mention the downtime during service and transportation....time = money.

djsherly · 09-08-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by womble2k2

There appears to be some Windows 7 information missing;
1. How to inform your customers about security, and that they need to slow their PC down by 10% by installing ant-virus and anti-malware software.
2. How to inform customers about what to do if the PC crashes with BSOD or similar.
3. Informing customers about the activation system, system slow downs as you load more software, etc, etc
4. explaining to customers why installing Windows 7 will occupy as much as 18 gigs of hard disk space.
5. explaining to customers how they should get help or advice if things go wrong (contact you computer manufacturers premium rate number, they will run through a script and then ask you to re-install the OS, you can also purchase support from MS or third parties). We [MS] currently do not have a genius bar.

Could go on forever, but you get my point. If I was a customer walking into a shop after this training, I would be asking to see the evidence of their claims. If they cannot back them up, I don't make a purchase. Simple.

Phil

I don't think I've seen a BSOD in maybe 6 years? I didn't see much in the way of lies in the slides. Sure, they're a bit selective about their material but then again, most material has an agenda these days. When you go to windows training prepared by Microsoft, tell me honestly what information you expect to be fed? I would expect no less from any other vendor.

BeyondYourFrontDoor · 09-08-2009, 05:57 PM

I don't understand the 4 page rant about this... some of the points are valid - some aren't... None of them are untrue. It reminds me of car-sales lectures... you don't point out the strengths of your competitor, you point out their weaknesses.

I switched from PC about 2 years ago now... and looking back, yes, it was a bit of a change to get used to. It wasn't hard or anything, but it is a change. And I still miss some of my old PC apps, and have invested in Fusion and still run an XP image... primarily for QuickTax (no mac version yet), and ironically, Microsoft Money (which they have just discontinued!).

For the average dummy, a PC or a Mac is the same... they store your pictures, play your music, and surf the internet. Hard-core gamers are always going to go for the open-box concept of a PC, as the $4000 entry level for a Mac Pro is a bit steep.

I encourage my friends to spend a few bucks more and get a Mac, but some of them can only afford a $500 computer, and a PC gets them what they need. Yes, it can end up costing more in the long run, but that's why most of us drive Fords and GM's and not MB's and BMW's...

Mac is a premium brand, and I have the resources to buy it... and I rather like it being a bit more exclusive...

genovelle · 09-08-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djsherly

I don't think I've seen a BSOD in maybe 6 years? I didn't see much in the way of lies in the slides. Sure, they're a bit selective about their material but then again, most material has an agenda these days. When you go to windows training prepared by Microsoft, tell me honestly what information you expect to be fed? I would expect no less from any other vendor.

When you force a comparison between services that are different like Windows Live being free, even though it offers no similar service. Instead it offers download options for copies of software that comes standard on the Mac, and the other services they offer a free from them on the Mac. I guess the funny part is, Apple's hardware offers far more software availability than the Windows PC. You get all of the Mac only apps including those from Apple, you also can run Multiple Versions of Windows, & Linux on the same computer, even at the same time. So how does not going Mac give you more software choices?

zunx · 09-08-2009, 06:09 PM

The two main reasons some people use Windows instead of Mac are: inertia and ignorance. The day 25% of people use Mac, Windows will be history in three years.

OC4Theo · 09-08-2009, 06:11 PM

Microsoft is terribly scared of Apple. When you don't have anything better than the competition, you just attack and attack.

It has not worked, it is not working, and it will never work. They are losing the game. The rain has exposed the leaking roof. It will continue to drip water until the Microsoft shanty house is flooded.

lamewing · 09-08-2009, 06:16 PM

One thing that has kept me on the PC side even though we have a PC and Mac Mini is that OSX doesn't have anything that compares to the handwriting recognition that Windows Vista and Windows 7 has. There is just no comparison.

What do I want? A Mac tablet that supports a true version of OSX and Windows 7 and allows for stylus as well as multi-touch input. If Apple made such a device I would switch 100%

OldMacGuy · 09-08-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OC4Theo

Microsoft is terribly scared of Apple. When you don't have anything better than the competition, you just attack and attack.

It has not worked, it is not working, and it will never work. They are losing the game. The rain has exposed the leaking roof. It will continue to drip water until the Microsoft shanty house is flooded.

Kids have figured it out. My son's 2 kids went Mac a year before he finally did.

Game over, man.

Logisticaldron · 09-08-2009, 06:16 PM

According to that screenshot, if you only account for the processor speed, the screen size, the HDD size, multi-card readers and number of ports, then you can save well over a $300 over the cost of a Mac.

I think I can get a crappy 2” thick notebook for $500 with a 2.2Ghz AMD Turion CPU with 3GB RAM and a 200GB HDD and more USB ports, VGA, RJ-11, many other ports and a 16” display . That is like $700 cheaper than the 13” MBP and it bests the MBP in every single way according to MS.

rbonner · 09-08-2009, 06:18 PM

I don't disagree with any of the points, they are true for the most part, and nothing wrong with selling to their products advantages. The mac ads are the same, selling to the Mac advantages.

It's a shame they could not be more fun about it, feels a bit under the table when doing it at the sales clerk level.

Thinking out of all my friends, 3 of them fit into the Windows camp for the reasons given (a mac would send them into shock, the other 2 are serious gamers), but the rest are willing to invest a bit of time to get it back in spades. Strict policy, you get ravished by viruses, I will go with you to get a Mac, or you can learn how to install windows.

Chris_CA · 09-08-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeyondYourFrontDoor

I don't understand the 4 page rant about this... some of the points are valid - some aren't... None of them are untrue. It reminds me of car-sales lectures... you don't point out the strengths of your competitor, you point out their weaknesses.

Why point out anything about Macs (remember the miniscule market percentage?) unless the customer brings it up?
Also from the training;

Quote:

PCs run more of the software programs your customers use most...

Those software programs will also run on a Mac (it's not a PC?) in Windows.

Sounds like MS is getting kickbacks for hardware sales.

irnchriz · 09-08-2009, 06:29 PM

I have to be honest here, I love Microsoft. If it were not for them I probably wouldn't be driving a new car, living in a big house and sitting with a pile of cash in the bank. The frequency and number of IT issues that we deal with regarding Microsoft OS is astounding. One of our customers who we made a tidy profit on, recently switched to Macs and their support call rate has dropped by 75%.

I hope Apple do not get a greater market share as this is going to hit us IT guys in the wallet.

MJ Web · 09-08-2009, 06:30 PM

Woof, woof

cmf2 · 09-08-2009, 06:31 PM

It wasn't that bad. The fact and myth stuff was over the top though. How easy an OS is to learn is subjective and varies from person to person, you can't state it as a fact. I also disagree with the value argument, I'm willing to pay more for a mac because I see more value in it, even if the specs are a little lower. Windows 7 is a very solid OS though, if it was out a few years back, I may not have switched. Not because it is better than OSX, but because it would have been good enough.

Chug · 09-08-2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OC4Theo

Microsoft is terribly scared of Apple. When you don't have anything better than the competition, you just attack and attack.

You mean like what Apple does?

womble2k2 · 09-08-2009, 06:42 PM

MS would gain more in revenue by solving its piracy issues across the asian continent than winning sales from potential Apple customers. The amount of money and resources it is throwing at fighting Apple is out of line with what it could cost to gain more business elsewhere.

This suggests that MS believe Apple will keep on becoming stronger and stronger, and will become a much bigger threat to it's revenues.

Even if MS decided to spend all of its (and Bill Gates) fortune on promotions, it would still never persuade me to switch back to Windoze.

As I have said on postings on other forums, the cost of ownership of a computer is ((cost of purchase and upkeep) - (value at end of life)) / lifespan. Most PC's are worth nothing at the end of life, yet I've just sold my iBook G4 for 1/2 of it's original value. It was a bullet proof machine and never failed (despite being dropped twice!!).

Ultimately, people with intelligence will always choose the right product!!

Phil

tundraboy · 09-08-2009, 06:43 PM

The training material says the $300 you save by buying a Mac is good for two Geek Squad sessions to remove viruses and spyware.

Whoever came up with this "selling point" for Windows is a total idiot.

BeyondYourFrontDoor · 09-08-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genovelle

When you force a comparison between services that are different like Windows Live being free, even though it offers no similar service. Instead it offers download options for copies of software that comes standard on the Mac, and the other services they offer a free from them on the Mac. I guess the funny part is, Apple's hardware offers far more software availability than the Windows PC. You get all of the Mac only apps including those from Apple, you also can run Multiple Versions of Windows, & Linux on the same computer, even at the same time. So how does not going Mac give you more software choices?

Windows Live doesn't offer email? (Hotmail) Doesn't host photos? (Live Photos - 25GB free storage) What else doesn't it do? I am a MobileMe subscriber, but really, other than the convenience, you can get pretty much everything free from another service. It's people making these hardline 'Microsoft Sucks' types of rants that turn people away. The computer - Mac or PC - is quickly becoming just a window into a digital snapshot of a person - stored on the 'net. We're finally getting close to the 'browser as the PC' that Sun and such dreamed about 10 years ago.

And, it's tough to call iLife 'free'. If it is free, then what are we paying for when we buy a Mac?

Lastly, selling a Mac as a 'multi version of windows' machine is completely counter-intuitive to your whole argument. Why, if the Mac is 'better', would you need to run even one Windows image, let alone many? And if you are doing this legitimately, you need a licence for EACH image of Windows, as well as Fusion or Parallels. There are also the same virtualization tools available on the PC.

I love Mac, and would never go back. There is nothing wrong with saying that, plain and simple, and leaving all the fluff out of it. Of my friends who have switched to Mac, not one of them was convinced by a PC-bashing rant... they all took a look at what I was doing with my mac (iPhoto books, iMovie production, Logic scores) and wanted to DO THAT as easy as I was. You can do all that on just about ANY pc... but Mac wraps it up in a compelling package.

elroth · 09-08-2009, 06:55 PM

[QUOTE=djsherly;1478187]I don't think I've seen a BSOD in maybe 6 years/QUOTE]

Get ready then.

"Windows 7 when it ships next month will be vulnerable to an attack that hasn't been possible since 1999, a new vulnerability found by a security researcher shows. Sending a deliberately malformed network negotiation request can force a Windows 7 system into a page fault that triggers a "blue screen of death" error, even without the user's help in launching the code. The attack affects both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the OS."

DCJ001 · 09-08-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djsherly

I don't think I've seen a BSOD in maybe 6 years?

I didn't see much in the way of lies in the slides. Sure, they're a bit selective about their material but then again, most material has an agenda these days. When you go to windows training prepared by Microsoft, tell me honestly what information you expect to be fed? I would expect no less from any other vendor.

That may be because you're not using Windows 7 yet.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Win...DSoD,8620.html

Wiggin · 09-08-2009, 07:11 PM

MS's training aside, Best Buy charges $50 to set up an email account? Something that should take all about about 5 minutes. Or is it that much more complicated on Windows? That should just come free with the purchase.

As for the training...maybe I'll go hang out at my local Best Buy after Win7 releases...purely for the entertainment value of sales people parroting these lines!

rickag · 09-08-2009, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tundraboy

The training material says the $300 you save by buying a Mac is good for two Geek Squad sessions to remove viruses and spyware.

Whoever came up with this "selling point" for Windows is a total idiot.

Agreed, this is bonehead beyond belief.

Since this training program is now public, there now exists the potential for considerable backlash. Informed consumers will know any apparent cost savings will be eaten up in sales pressure to buy anti-virus software, etc. This is bonehead on Microsoft's part, they didn't think this through at all.

What Microsoft is saying in effect is, sure you can save money on the hadware but our software sucks so bad the extra software you should buy or the Geek Squad assistance you will need to secure your computer brings the cost up to what Apple charges

halfyearsun · 09-08-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djsherly

I don't think I've seen a BSOD in maybe 6 years?

Anecdotal evidence is only so effective. My friend just had her entire computer go BSOD a week ago. Windows XP i think.

halfyearsun · 09-08-2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoonyPandora

Not going out of your way to advertise a competitors services isn't exactly "lying" - This presentation is just about right for a PC orientated sales pitch.

Apple Sales Training is just as biased.

Move along, nothing to see here...

the problem isn't that one, the other, or both are biased. the problem is that best buy is lazy and aren't writing their own training programs which only serves to water down the customer service provided by their "expert" sales people.

having "experts" who are merely trained puppets (from either side) sinks your credibility and eventually your business.

Dr Millmoss · 09-08-2009, 07:16 PM

So, Microsoft believes they have to train big box employees to lie about products. That was their first mistake. They should have just told them to do what they're already trained do -- make it up as they go along.

darwiniandude · 09-08-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamewing

One thing that has kept me on the PC side even though we have a PC and Mac Mini is that OSX doesn't have anything that compares to the handwriting recognition that Windows Vista and Windows 7 has. There is just no comparison.

What do I want? A Mac tablet that supports a true version of OSX and Windows 7 and allows for stylus as well as multi-touch input. If Apple made such a device I would switch 100%

OS X does have handwriting recognition built in, and always has. You need a graphics tablet connected for 'Inkwell' to show up in System Preferences. This is what the Axiotron Modbook people have taken advantage of.

Agreed, I'd love Apple to make hardware to use this out the box. For me it would be for mainly artistic reasons, there is no way I can write as fast as I can type.

cmf2 · 09-08-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeyondYourFrontDoor

Windows Live doesn't offer email? (Hotmail) Doesn't host photos? (Live Photos - 25GB free storage) What else doesn't it do? I am a MobileMe subscriber, but really, other than the convenience, you can get pretty much everything free from another service. It's people making these hardline 'Microsoft Sucks' types of rants that turn people away. The computer - Mac or PC - is quickly becoming just a window into a digital snapshot of a person - stored on the 'net. We're finally getting close to the 'browser as the PC' that Sun and such dreamed about 10 years ago.

Does it have an iDisk equivalent? Find my iPhone service? Remote wipe service? Contact and calendar syncing? That list is just going to grow as mobileme matures too. They are different services, the only thing that relates them is that they are online services.

Edit: You can get a lot of stuff free from other services, but iLife doesn't have them all. They are different services that share a couple common ones.

09-08-2009, 04:56 PM	#1
*AppleInsider* Kasper's Automated Slave Join Date: Nov 1997 Posts: 6,151	Microsoft unleashes retail talking points attacking Linux, Macs In preparation for the launch of Windows 7, Microsoft has created ExpertZone "training courses" using controversial talking point programing to dissuade retail employees from selling customers Linux PCs or Macs, and arms them with "facts" to use in upselling Windows PC users on expensive service plans. The private trainings consist of a series of claims about how Windows 7 compares to Linux or Apple's offerings, followed by a "quiz" that tells retail employees they are "incorrect" if they don't parrot back the talking points as their answers. BestBuy and other retail employees can earn a $10 copy of Windows 7 for completing the training. The training course attacking Linux has been covered by other sources, including Overclock.net, where one reader commented, "I think I now know why, when I enter BestBuy, the employees say the odd lies that they do." Microsoft is also publishing a series attacking Macs, and AppleInsider has obtained the first screenshots publicly published of this training series for retail employees. The first page of the course, outlining its "objectives," says customers get "a lot more computer with a Windows-based PC than a Mac," that PCs run more software programs and "come in a wide variety of colors and configurations," and claims that "customers have less to learn to get started with a Windows 7-based PC." Save and Spend "It's possible to get a PC with the same hardware specs as a Mac and save up to $300," the second page says, followed by the line, "By saving your customer money, it's easier to attach products and service plans to the sale." Using BestBuy's GeekSquad service team, that $300 in customer savings will pay for two virus and spyware removal sessions. If the user wants help to install new software, BestBuy charges $50 per title extra. They'll configure a print server or "iTouch" to work on your home network for just $80 per device, and check the security of your network for another $80. They's walk you through how to use your iPod for $50, and provide a troubleshooting session for it for another $50. Email setup costs $50, and a troubleshooting session costs $70. The customer can also add a thirty minute "Windows basic training" and an half hour "Office troubleshooting session" for $50 each. Microsoft's training does not note that the Apple Store provides these services for free (although Mac "virus and spyware removals" are not in big demand), it just suggests that BestBuy employees sell users on a cheaper PC that will stoke demand for overpriced support fees and service programs. Save customers "up to $300" on hardware, then talk them into spending more than that on PC maintenance. Our MobileMe is Free On the third page of the training, Microsoft says, "Windows Live is FREE. Apple's online service costs $99/year." It outlines Windows Live features including Messenger IM and Hotmail, both of which are also free to Mac users. Windows Live also includes applications that were formerly bundled with Windows Vista, but which are now a free but optional download for Windows 7. These include Windows Mail (formerly called Outlook Express; comparable to Mac OS X Mail.app), Windows Photo Gallery (comparable to iPhoto), Movie Maker (comparable to iMovie), Writer (comparable to iWeb) and Family Safety (a feature similar to Mac OS X's built-in Parental Controls). Microsoft is comparing free software it removed from Windows Vista and turned into a optional download for Windows 7 with Apple's completely different MobileMe service. The apps Windows users must download from Windows Live are already bundled with new Macs, including others that Microsoft doesn't note, such as GarageBand, iDVD and Preview. Reviewers also don't equate Photo Gallery and Movie Maker to the richer feature set of iPhoto and iMovie. Additionally, there's no comparison between MobileMe's actual features and Windows Live offerings. The free service Microsoft offers doesn't include anything comparable to iDisk, Back to My Mac, push-messaging and synchronized mobile and desktop calendars and contacts for cross platform users. On page 2 of 3: More colors and fine tuning; Personalize the PC; More software choices, particularly from Microsoft; More Games; and INCORRECT! More colors and fine tuning The training continues with a fourth page highlighting more software, the latest games, and the ability of retail employees to "fine-tune" their computer recommendations to their customer's needs. "With a Mac, your customers' choices are limited," the training materials say. Microsoft has used this tack as the basis for its "Laptop Hunters" ad campaign. An analysis of the fine-tuned options that generic PC buyers portrayed in the ads ended up with reveals that customers like actress Lauren actually got a poor quality screen, lower screen resolution, slower WiFi, no Gigabit Ethernet, no digital audio ports, more bulk and more weight. Limited to options provided by Apple, customers have no way to end up with a PC sporting old, obsolete WiFi and Ethernet networking; a poorly engineered, heavy system; or a laptop screen purporting to be 17" while only offering the resolution of a 15" display. Microsoft doesn't note this in its training. Personalize the PC Next, Microsoft notes that "Windows 7 comes with many new themes, so your customers have more options for making their computer reflect their personal taste." This includes backgrounds, "glass colors," unique sound schemes, a custom screen saver, and a "custom photo slide show on the desktop." How factory-supplied wallpapers help customers "reflect their personal taste" is not specified, but Microsoft also omits that Mac OS X not only supplies its own backgrounds and screen savers (including photo slide shows), but also provides a graphical programing language in the free Quartz Composer, which enables non-programers to visually remix their own content to build their own backgrounds, screen savers, and even video effects for iChat IM and Photo Booth. Screen savers can pull data from a live RSS feed or from websites such as Wikipedia. Windows 7 might allow users to tint their Vista-Aero glass effects, but Mac OS X enables users to actually customize their video chats and build interactive Quartz Compositions that can be used by various applications. Mac OS X also supports customized Audio Units for creating music and sound effects, which can be used in the included GarageBand or the more advanced Logic pro apps for serious music composition. Personalization isn't achieved by coloring inside the lines with a set of corporate crayons. More software choices, particularly from Microsoft Microsoft next presents the horrors that await customers who switch to a Mac: "they will have to: live without most of the latest games and some software titles, re-purchase Mac versions of software hey already own for Windows (if they're available), accept that many Mac title are not as full-featured as Windows version (e.g. QuickBooks Pro)." A series of graphs point out the percentage of the top 25 PC apps that are available for the Mac, starting with 44% of business and productivity apps (Microsoft notes that its own Access database is not available for the Mac, but doesn't mention that alternatives such as FileMaker Pro and Bento are). Among top PC communication and Internet apps, Microsoft says only 28% are Mac-savvy, specifically noting Outlook, a title Microsoft only offers in a very reduced version for Mac users under the name Entourage. Ironically, Microsoft has announced publicly that it will soon be selling a new version of Outlook for Mac users, but it doesn't note that anywhere in its anti-Mac training session. It also doesn't point out that it ships its own Office suite for Mac users. In finance apps, Microsoft says the Mac only has 48% of the top PC apps available. Microsoft cites Quicken 2009, again highlighting the terrible job Intuit has done in supporting Mac users. Its CEO, Bill Campbell, also sits on Apple's board, making this stab particularly painful. However, the company has shipped QuickBooks 2009 and has announced plans to support Mac users better in the future (including support for Online Payroll), something that Microsoft has no reason to emphasize. A ground up rewrite of Quicken for Mac, designed to take full advantage of new Mac OS X features, is slated for next year. Among personal productivity apps, Microsoft only gives the Mac 8% of the top PC titles, citing "HGTV Home Design and Remodeling." On Amazon, that title was given as many one and two star ratings as it got in five star ratings, with top users' reviews posting comments that called it "disappointing" and "so difficult I've given up." Microsoft doesn't mention the free iLife applications that ship with the Mac, the Mac-only iWork suite of apps Apple sells at shareware prices, and Apple's Pro Apps that are also exclusive to the Mac, including prosumer and professional versions of Final Cut and Logic. Some of those features are brought up in Apple's "Get a Mac" ads, which have helped induce the PC switching wave that has put Microsoft on the defensive. More Games The next punch is Microsoft's strongest blow, pointing out that Macs natively only run 12 of the top 25 PC games. It might seem surprising that the figure is even that high, given Microsoft's strength in PC gaming. However, in touting its proprietary DirectX 11, which is only available to the minority of PC users running Windows Vista/7, Microsoft also forgets that Macs can also run Windows natively at full speed. Microsoft makes no mention of BootCamp. Isn't Microsoft in the business of selling Windows rather than PCs? That may be the case, but Microsoft knows that users who switch to the Mac have the option to run Windows, but will actually create more demand for Mac-only titles. That's already happening. This forces Microsoft to support sales of generic PC sales against the "Mac," making no distinction that Macs can also run Windows, and therefore have no problem playing PC games. INCORRECT! Microsoft now leads retail employees through three review questions to see if they've been paying attention. If "your customers have less to learn with a Windows-based PC" is rated as a myth rather than fact, the training replies "INCORRECT" in red. The "real facts," Microsoft says, is that "most of your customers have already used Windows ether at work or at home," and that "new features, security and reliability make Windows 7 a familiar, but better choice." Since the vast majority of PC users are actually working with Windows XP, why will the new features of Windows 7, which look a lot more like Mac OS X than XP, be more familiar to them? Microsoft doesn't say. If employees agree that "Macs are a better value than a PC because you get more for your money," they again get reprimanded with full caps in red ink. Again, Microsoft says "its [sic] possible to get a PC with the same hardware specs as a Mac and save up to $300. Windows Live is free. Apple's online service costs $99/year." Time to move to the next question. Anyone who questions that "Windows 7 is compatible with more software and games than a Mac" is again hit with red marks. "Many mac software titles are not as full featured and available as the Windows versions," Microsoft says, adding that, of the top 25 PC games, "only 12 are available on a Mac [OS X system that doesn't have a BootCamp Windows partition]." (Some of those details were not actually presented in Microsoft's training materials, of course.) On page 3 of 3: The Quiz The Quiz The training materials next present four features in Windows 7: * "Snap" window positioning * The bundled Windows Media Center DVR application * "Jump lists," a new name for Recent Items * Location Aware Printing, a feature that changes the default printer to the current location. That last feature only works under the $300 Windows 7 Professional edition (a $200 upgrade from XP or Vista, although Amazon says "we recommend that you experience Windows 7 on a new PC") or other more expensive editions. It does not work under Home Premium. Microsoft says none of these are available on the Mac. It's true, the Jump List feature that "opens files in just two clicks from the task bar" is not called that on the Mac, and only requires one click under Recent Items under the Apple menu. There are also other features unique to both Windows and the Mac. But are these four features really the strongest Microsoft can include in its sales pitch training for Windows 7? Apple calls most of Snow Leopard's new features "refinements," but may are more significant and useful. Completing the course requires matching the four feature blurbs to their brand name. For completing this, participants get a $10 copy of Windows 7. Microsoft's retail training program indicates a defensive posture against Apple's mounting direct retail sales, both in its own retail stores and in the "store within a store" merchandizing done with retails such as BestBuy. Whether the company will use the same tactics in its public advertising remains to be seen. If it does, it will expose itself to charges of false claims and deceptive comparisons, which could cause the same blowback as the company's earlier Mojave Experiment and Laptop Hunter campaigns. [ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

09-08-2009, 05:14 PM	#5
camroidv27 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 329	This article is written much like the training its railing upon. Some of the things that the "training" say are indeed false (Like the background images and such), but some of the things it says are true. Either way, both canidates throw up a good fight. I wish that MS would just let go of its comparison to Apple. Also, I'd LOVE it if Apple and its fans would be big enough to do the same and stop putting down MS and its users. Also, maybe I skipped over it, but where was all this "against Linux" in the training screenshots? I guess I have to go to the site itself to be horribly offended. And maybe I too can get a 10 dollar copy of Win 7? That'd be nice! But yeah, articles and trainings like this make me mad, so away I go! openSuSe 11.2, 32 and 64 bit, for Mac and PC! "Shiny capt'n. Everything thing is A-Okay."

09-08-2009, 05:18 PM	#8
teckstud Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 6,115	Omg! The Empire Strikes back! Once you go Mac, you never go back!

09-08-2009, 05:21 PM	#9
saarek Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Posts: 97	First screen was accurate To be fair the first training page was reasonably accurate, the rest was BS. Still all of the people I have switched don't want to switch back to Windows thats for sure. iMac, Macbook, iPhone, heck I even have iLife! :-)

09-08-2009, 05:27 PM	#10
jlandd Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 36	Unfortunately for Apple fans who work in sales, not only are Mac margins lower but there's practically no opportunity for upsells, while the PC world lives on them. It's funny because BB just jumped through a million hoops to land the Apple retail gig and now Apple may well yank it from them. Last edited by jlandd; 09-08-2009 at 05:33 PM..

09-08-2009, 05:06 PM	#2
OPTIK Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 8	Here we go agin

09-08-2009, 05:08 PM	#3
iCarbon Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 104	My god! I'm selling my mac and buying a PC!!!!! what have I been thinking all these years!

09-08-2009, 05:12 PM	#4
LoonyPandora Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: London, UK Posts: 12	Not going out of your way to advertise a competitors services isn't exactly "lying" - This presentation is just about right for a PC orientated sales pitch. Apple Sales Training is just as biased. Move along, nothing to see here...

09-08-2009, 05:17 PM	#6
anantksundaram Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,218	Why would this company do something like this!? Instead, shouldn't they have a training manual on how to 'upsell' Mac users on the need for a dual OSX/W7 boot-up capability?

09-08-2009, 05:17 PM	#7
Guartho Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Missouri... up in the corner Posts: 1,180	I always assumed that the outright lies of Best Buy employees were a result of overzealous sales staff going after high-commission warranty sales and other add-on sales. I'm saddened to learn that they're official corporate policy.

09-08-2009, 05:33 PM	#11
womble2k2 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 40	There appears to be some Windows 7 information missing; 1. How to inform your customers about security, and that they need to slow their PC down by 10% by installing ant-virus and anti-malware software. 2. How to inform customers about what to do if the PC crashes with BSOD or similar. 3. Informing customers about the activation system, system slow downs as you load more software, etc, etc 4. explaining to customers why installing Windows 7 will occupy as much as 18 gigs of hard disk space. 5. explaining to customers how they should get help or advice if things go wrong (contact you computer manufacturers premium rate number, they will run through a script and then ask you to re-install the OS, you can also purchase support from MS or third parties). We [MS] currently do not have a genius bar. Could go on forever, but you get my point. If I was a customer walking into a shop after this training, I would be asking to see the evidence of their claims. If they cannot back them up, I don't make a purchase. Simple. Phil

09-08-2009, 05:34 PM	#12
ulfoaf Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 104	Controversial? Controversial to sell their own stuff? Nah. Controversial for retailers to believe their snow, yes.

09-08-2009, 05:57 PM	#16
BeyondYourFrontDoor Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 35	I don't understand the 4 page rant about this... some of the points are valid - some aren't... None of them are untrue. It reminds me of car-sales lectures... you don't point out the strengths of your competitor, you point out their weaknesses. I switched from PC about 2 years ago now... and looking back, yes, it was a bit of a change to get used to. It wasn't hard or anything, but it is a change. And I still miss some of my old PC apps, and have invested in Fusion and still run an XP image... primarily for QuickTax (no mac version yet), and ironically, Microsoft Money (which they have just discontinued!). For the average dummy, a PC or a Mac is the same... they store your pictures, play your music, and surf the internet. Hard-core gamers are always going to go for the open-box concept of a PC, as the $4000 entry level for a Mac Pro is a bit steep. I encourage my friends to spend a few bucks more and get a Mac, but some of them can only afford a $500 computer, and a PC gets them what they need. Yes, it can end up costing more in the long run, but that's why most of us drive Fords and GM's and not MB's and BMW's... Mac is a premium brand, and I have the resources to buy it... and I rather like it being a bit more exclusive...

09-08-2009, 06:09 PM	#18
zunx Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 373	The two main reasons some people use Windows instead of Mac are: inertia and ignorance. The day 25% of people use Mac, Windows will be history in three years.

09-08-2009, 06:11 PM	#19
OC4Theo Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 138	Scared like hell... Microsoft is terribly scared of Apple. When you don't have anything better than the competition, you just attack and attack. It has not worked, it is not working, and it will never work. They are losing the game. The rain has exposed the leaking roof. It will continue to drip water until the Microsoft shanty house is flooded.

09-08-2009, 06:16 PM	#20
lamewing Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 113	OSX still missing handwriting recognition One thing that has kept me on the PC side even though we have a PC and Mac Mini is that OSX doesn't have anything that compares to the handwriting recognition that Windows Vista and Windows 7 has. There is just no comparison. What do I want? A Mac tablet that supports a true version of OSX and Windows 7 and allows for stylus as well as multi-touch input. If Apple made such a device I would switch 100%

09-08-2009, 06:16 PM	#22
Logisticaldron Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 447	According to that screenshot, if you only account for the processor speed, the screen size, the HDD size, multi-card readers and number of ports, then you can save well over a $300 over the cost of a Mac. I think I can get a crappy 2” thick notebook for $500 with a 2.2Ghz AMD Turion CPU with 3GB RAM and a 200GB HDD and more USB ports, VGA, RJ-11, many other ports and a 16” display . That is like $700 cheaper than the 13” MBP and it bests the MBP in every single way according to MS.

09-08-2009, 06:18 PM	#23
rbonner Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 144	true, but sad I don't disagree with any of the points, they are true for the most part, and nothing wrong with selling to their products advantages. The mac ads are the same, selling to the Mac advantages. It's a shame they could not be more fun about it, feels a bit under the table when doing it at the sales clerk level. Thinking out of all my friends, 3 of them fit into the Windows camp for the reasons given (a mac would send them into shock, the other 2 are serious gamers), but the rest are willing to invest a bit of time to get it back in spades. Strict policy, you get ravished by viruses, I will go with you to get a Mac, or you can learn how to install windows. Last edited by rbonner; 09-08-2009 at 06:26 PM..

09-08-2009, 06:29 PM	#25
irnchriz Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 308	I have to be honest here, I love Microsoft. If it were not for them I probably wouldn't be driving a new car, living in a big house and sitting with a pile of cash in the bank. The frequency and number of IT issues that we deal with regarding Microsoft OS is astounding. One of our customers who we made a tidy profit on, recently switched to Macs and their support call rate has dropped by 75%. I hope Apple do not get a greater market share as this is going to hit us IT guys in the wallet.

09-08-2009, 06:30 PM	#26
MJ Web Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 134	Please ring my bell again, Dr. Pavlov Woof, woof

09-08-2009, 06:31 PM	#27
cmf2 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 565	It wasn't that bad. The fact and myth stuff was over the top though. How easy an OS is to learn is subjective and varies from person to person, you can't state it as a fact. I also disagree with the value argument, I'm willing to pay more for a mac because I see more value in it, even if the specs are a little lower. Windows 7 is a very solid OS though, if it was out a few years back, I may not have switched. Not because it is better than OSX, but because it would have been good enough.

09-08-2009, 06:42 PM	#29
womble2k2 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 40	MS would gain more in revenue by solving its piracy issues across the asian continent than winning sales from potential Apple customers. The amount of money and resources it is throwing at fighting Apple is out of line with what it could cost to gain more business elsewhere. This suggests that MS believe Apple will keep on becoming stronger and stronger, and will become a much bigger threat to it's revenues. Even if MS decided to spend all of its (and Bill Gates) fortune on promotions, it would still never persuade me to switch back to Windoze. As I have said on postings on other forums, the cost of ownership of a computer is ((cost of purchase and upkeep) - (value at end of life)) / lifespan. Most PC's are worth nothing at the end of life, yet I've just sold my iBook G4 for 1/2 of it's original value. It was a bullet proof machine and never failed (despite being dropped twice!!). Ultimately, people with intelligence will always choose the right product!! Phil

09-08-2009, 06:43 PM	#30
tundraboy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 240	The training material says the $300 you save by buying a Mac is good for two Geek Squad sessions to remove viruses and spyware. Whoever came up with this "selling point" for Windows is a total idiot.

09-08-2009, 06:55 PM	#32
elroth Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 379	[QUOTE=djsherly;1478187]I don't think I've seen a BSOD in maybe 6 years/QUOTE] Get ready then. "Windows 7 when it ships next month will be vulnerable to an attack that hasn't been possible since 1999, a new vulnerability found by a security researcher shows. Sending a deliberately malformed network negotiation request can force a Windows 7 system into a page fault that triggers a "blue screen of death" error, even without the user's help in launching the code. The attack affects both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the OS."

09-08-2009, 07:11 PM	#34
Wiggin Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 849	MS's training aside, Best Buy charges $50 to set up an email account? Something that should take all about about 5 minutes. Or is it that much more complicated on Windows? That should just come free with the purchase. As for the training...maybe I'll go hang out at my local Best Buy after Win7 releases...purely for the entertainment value of sales people parroting these lines!

09-08-2009, 07:16 PM	#38
Dr Millmoss Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,243	So, Microsoft believes they have to train big box employees to lie about products. That was their first mistake. They should have just told them to do what they're already trained do -- make it up as they go along. What have you done with...

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode