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#1 |
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Kasper's Automated Slave
Join Date: Nov 1997
Posts: 6,151
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New rule could boost Apple's publicly reported earnings
Apple's public accounting records could receive a significant boost, particularly in terms of iPhone profits, if a proposed rule change comes to pass.
The Financial Accounting Standards Board sets accounting standards for U.S. public companies, a power designated to the private, not-for-profit group by the Securities and Exchange Commission. According to Fortune Brainstorm Tech, the FASB has drafted a new rule that Apple heavily lobbied for -- a rule that one analyst told AppleInsider could influence the company's stock price. "If the rule goes through, we believe Apple will be able to defer the iPhone revenue in a less dramatic manner," Piper Jaffray Senior Research Analyst Gene Munster said. "This could meaningfully alter the reported, GAAP-based revenue numbers in future quarters and the change would likely be a positive for the stock." Under the current rules, Apple was forced to use "subscription accounting" in its iPhone-related filings -- a requirement that some believe masked the true profitability of the handheld device. The new rule is currently only in draft form, but if approved, history suggests it could cause dramatic increase on AAPL stock price. "Subscription accounting meant that Apple has been under-reporting earnings on its bestselling smartphone for two years — one of the factors, Apple bulls believe, that kept its share price from fully reflecting the success of one most profitable products Apple has ever made," the report said. Author Philip Elmer-DeWitt goes on to cite the hardware maker's third-quarter financial results. Though Apple reported profits of $1.35 per diluted share for the period ending June 27, its earnings per share under the non generally accepted accounting principles would have been $2.14 a share, a total nearly 60 percent higher. The issue has existed for some time, and led some analysts to comment on what they called Apple's "real" quarterly earnings. "At the heart of the problem for Apple is its decision to offer iPhone owners free software updates from time to time — a practice that required its accountants to spread the revenue from iPhone sales over the life of a cellphone contract, typically two years," Elmer-DeWitt said. Apple has cited the generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP) as its reasoning for charging customers nominal fees for various upgrades, such as the iPod touch and Airport Extreme. Because Apple gives its iPhone software updates away for free, though, the Cupertino, Calif., company is required to spread its iPhone revenue over the length of the cell phone contract, which is usually two years. Because of this, in August, Apple wrote to FASB Chairman Russell Golden in support of changing the rules. In the note, Betsy Rafael, Apple's vice president and corporate controller and principal accounting officer, said the current requirements to not accurately reflect the real economics of transactions. The proposed changes, they said, would address those issues. "(The changes)... will result in a more accurate reflection of an entity's economic activities," wrote Rafael, "and in less complex and more transparent financial information that will better serve investors, financial analysts, and other users of financial statements." |
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#2 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ireland
Posts: 8,557
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So the software updates aren't the issue at all then, the issue is the cellphone contract.
Collecting my SSD iMac Fry-die. :D
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#3 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 165
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The market knows what Apple's non-GAAP real earnings are and the stock has priced that in. The non-GAAP PE is around 20 on a run rate basis. It is ok for a company that has grows revenues at 12% and earnings at 15% - under the current economic conditions.
What can raise the pricing in the stock is the expansion of carriers that carry the iPhone, like adding multiple carriers in the same market. Like adding Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile in the US. Adding China Mobile in China, etc. As their experience in France has shown, market share can double. The big expansion in the iPod market share too place when Apple went from Mac iTunes to PC iTunes... increased the addressable market. New products can make a difference. Adding a nice autofocus zoom camera and a decent GPS to the iTouch would help, but I suspect that Apple wants that market left to the iPhone. A well designed Table PC can help too in the educational market. However, the iPhone is the real killer product... just needs to be turned loose across multiple carriers. |
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#4 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6
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So...
So does this mean if the rule passes Apple will no longer charge for iPod Touch updates? and misc other firmware updates they have 'had to' charge for in the past due to the accounting?
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#5 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 728
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I'd think the opposite... that they would charge for iPhone updates, since the accrual would no longer be over 2 years... same as for touch.
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#6 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 138
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Just Accounting Game..
This is nothing but another accounting game that most publicly traded companies use to mask performance that only benefit them.
Whether the income is reported once or spread over time, what matters is how much cash you deposit in your bank. Cash is king. GAAP or non-GAAP is just nothing but an accounting gimmick! ![]() |
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#7 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 463
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That sounds about right to me, as the rule seems to suggest that an appropriate amount is put aside for future upgrade costs in the original purchase price. They could apply this new rule to iPod Touch sales as well (they don't at the moment because it's not a subscription purchase) and thus stop doing silly $5 OS upgrades that probably cost as much to administer as they make.
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#8 | ||
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,243
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#9 |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: florida
Posts: 212
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This report comes the same day as news that Apple eliminated one model of its AppleTV and lowered the price on the other, suggesting ATV (or new software) might be imminent. And there's been talk of a new tablet introduction.
Is there any chance apple's waiting for resolution of these accounting procedures before introducing new products that might fall under the old/new regulations while generating big sales? I think the article says presently deferred revenues would all be added at once. But if that's not the case--if there were "old, deferred" revs and "revs booked immediately" for new sales--mightn't a big corporation delay a new product intro, if it didn't want the big product-intro sales blip deferred? I'm just sayin'... |
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#10 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Cheese
Posts: 456
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In the previous scenario, the iPod touch update is charged for only because it's something that has a recorded separate value elsewhere (in the GAAP accounting), isn't it? Seems to me that once that changes, then they could move to either making everyone pay for them or everyone not paying for them. Their choice.
It was a widely held belief by the smartest people in late 1400's Europe that human knowledge and indeed civilisation itself, had advanced to such a nearly complete and perfect state, that the "end times" were certainly almost upon them.
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#11 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Fangorn forest
Posts: 281
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Under GAAP revenue is to be recognized when it is earned and corresponding costs incurred. The idea is to match up income and expense the best way possible. If there is an ongoing service obligation then some costs should be recognized throughout that time period and revenue matched to the same time frame.
What I don't know is how AT&T, O2, Rogers, etc. pay Apple for iPhones. Does Apple get all the money up front or are they paid every month for the length of the contract? I can't imagine Apple wants hundreds of millions in revenue sitting on their books as receivables, particularly if many of those receivables aren't due for 18 months. Normally you reserve receivables for money that's actually due and payable, money you can reasonably expect to receive within 60 days. |
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#12 | ||
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 15
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The consensus in the tech press and from financial analysts seemed to be, oh well, we don't really get it, we think Apple/Apple supporters are just trying to pull a fast-one and with inflated opinion of the company. There also seemed to be confusion about the cash: like, "all right, if you really want to look at non-GAAP figures, knock yourself out, but it doesn't mean anything, because if it isn't in Apple's balance sheet for two years, it's because it doesn't exist anyway, so there! Don't try to unfairly count what isn't there. As I understand it, in actual fact the cash is there. The iPhone is a cash cow. The money is in the bank! Where is that 30billion coming from that keeps mounting? They get what, let's say conservatively, 400 per iPhone from ATT&T. That's up front for the subsidy. Apple is apparently not waiting for product money for two years; if there is an agreement on revenue sharing on the phone contracts, that's over and above base cost of phone. So, Apple puts down 50 dollars on balance sheet for every phone. But 400 goes in bank. Next quarter 50 more for every phone sold that quarter, PLUS every phone sold the previous EIGHT quarters! If they didn't sell a single iPhone, their balance sheet would still be GROWING for the next two years, because iPhone sales increased over the LAST two years quarter over quarter. AND they would have the interest on all the cash already in the bank. If the revenue was treated like any regular product from any other company (despite Apple wanting to give away software upgrades), they would instantly show up to eight times the iPhone revenue on their bottom line. Is the current stock price really building that in! And previous quarters would have shown even greater revenue and profit despite the recession. Then they worry about iPod sales not increasing as much as they have in the past, when there are 20 million Touches out there on iPhone OS 3, which along with iPhones marks a new platform that is still not understood either. It boggles the mind, why analysts worry about expectations when it comes to Apple. Or why people think this doesn't make a difference to the way Apple's stock has been treated. |
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#13 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Los Angeles, Kahleefornyah
Posts: 226
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Reporting it over time means less immediate tax burden and greater opportunity to earn interest on money in the bank growing steadily from iPhone...and is interest income considered profit, or Capital Gains? |
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#14 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 15
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I mean, GAAP stands for "Generally accepted accounting principles", and I understand analysts can't advise clients on non-GAAP numbers; but still, it seems like they are not even aware of what the GAAP numbers themselves actually mean! If they want to look at GAAP numbers only, fine. But, the GAAP number (let's conservatively say 50 dollars per iPhone, as 1/8 of 400 total product price), actually means that Apple has ALREADY EARNED 50 dollars per quarter for the next 7 quarters from sale for EVERY iPhone ALREADY SOLD. It's like they totally overlook this. It's like they are saying, "hmmmm, okay, so Apple had revenue of a billion on phones this quarter; wonder what it will be next quarter? Will it be the same, a bit more, a bit less, hmmmm?" Good grief! It might well be about the same without Apple selling a single new phone (Because 8 quarters ago, the totals might be far lower than what they have been more recently). Or, if they only sold the number they sold 2 years ago, then the figures are the same (I think). So, in terms of what the share price should be, and how widely recognized it is that Apple is in a very strong position, then accounting a diff way could help people see what they should have already seen. But in terms of putting money in the bank, maybe they should keep going as they are, I don't know. Last edited by krabbelen; 09-14-2009 at 06:25 PM.. |
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#15 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,243
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An overstatement. Non-GAAP is not totally overlooked, and probably not even partially overlooked. Apple announces both their GAAP and non-GAAP earnings every quarter now. They are both included in the press releases. I think what is not being understood here is that the non-GAAP earnings don't vanish off the balance sheet, they are just delayed. All of these earnings appear in both forms.
What have you done with...
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#16 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 970
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"Solipsism: In philosophy, a view that maintains that the self is the only thing that can be known to exist. It is an extreme form of skepticism. The solipsist sees himself or herself as the only individual in existence...."
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#17 | ||||||
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 970
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From the sounds of your post, you are not exactly a seasoned investor, so it shouldn't surprise you that you don't understand why a stock moves the way it does. Just because Apple is your favorite company does not mean that its value is infinite and there can't be reasonable debate about its future prospects. People who have been around much longer than you understand that.
"Solipsism: In philosophy, a view that maintains that the self is the only thing that can be known to exist. It is an extreme form of skepticism. The solipsist sees himself or herself as the only individual in existence...."
Last edited by cameronj; 09-14-2009 at 08:12 PM.. |
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#18 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 970
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So here you are, at a fork in the road. You have a choice to make. Do you a) assume that the above is true, and these highly paid professionals with millions of dollars at stake are so stupid that an Apple forum poster is running intellectual circles around them, or b) concede that the market knows all the things you do and far more, and is pricing Apple accordingly.
"Solipsism: In philosophy, a view that maintains that the self is the only thing that can be known to exist. It is an extreme form of skepticism. The solipsist sees himself or herself as the only individual in existence...."
Last edited by cameronj; 09-14-2009 at 09:45 PM.. |
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#19 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9
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Right, and this is the basis for accrual basis accounting. The cash payment is made upfront and is deferred as unearned revenue and is recognized ratably.
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#20 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 15
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So, yes, obviously, something is not being understood, as I said. They might as well be overlooking it, because they are overlooking something, the implications, or whatever. One implication being that Apple has to sell very few phones to maintain current iPhone income levels (for next two years), and they are soon selling into China to boot. |
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#21 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 15
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If all the "seasoned" investors are really getting some real analysis behind closed doors despite the public statements of analysts which seem to be largely negative on, yes, largely "overlooked" implications of the facts, then great. Instead seems like a lot of people are selling on wild rumors about Steve's health and other crap, manipulating the price, and contributing to the price fall from 200 to 80 last year. But those Apple fans who held, and who picked up more at 80 are in good shape. The stock is back up, and some analysts are finally coming around to estimates over 300 and recognizing that Apple is in good shape going forward. Wish I had more money to be that kind of investor. Being an Apple fan doesn't make one a fantasist, just someone who feels there is a little more integrity in Apple and what Apple says than what pundits, analysts and other companies say. |
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#22 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 112
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Doubt it, they will just need to think of another excuse. There's plenty of examples of companies giving things away for free. In fact Apple gives software away for free that comes on a Mac and as it only runs on a Mac you could deduce its a comparative upgrade. Not to mention there have been software upgrades for normal iPODs that you didn't pay for.
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#23 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,243
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Personally, I think this is a teapot storm. If AAPL is being undervalued by investors, it's not because of the way they report income, it's because of concerns over the ability to grow profits in the future at the recent-past rates. In the end, that's what stock values are all about anyway.
What have you done with...
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#24 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 970
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"Solipsism: In philosophy, a view that maintains that the self is the only thing that can be known to exist. It is an extreme form of skepticism. The solipsist sees himself or herself as the only individual in existence...."
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#25 | ||
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 970
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Your feelings about Apple are typical of an investor who really doesn't know what he's doing. Take a tip, instead of trying to fight the truth. The market is not out to get you. Analysts cannot affect a stock outside the very short term. The market already knows everything you know. All these things are true, and once you accept them, you'll finally have a chance to understand the market. Until then, you will always think there is a conspiracy out to get you. Don't be that guy. Quote:
"Solipsism: In philosophy, a view that maintains that the self is the only thing that can be known to exist. It is an extreme form of skepticism. The solipsist sees himself or herself as the only individual in existence...."
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#26 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 970
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Quote:
"Solipsism: In philosophy, a view that maintains that the self is the only thing that can be known to exist. It is an extreme form of skepticism. The solipsist sees himself or herself as the only individual in existence...."
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