FileMaker releases Bento 3 with iPhoto integration

[AppleInsider]

Bento, the database application for Mac OS X, was updated to version 3 Tuesday, bringing new features, security options, integration with iPhoto, and more.

The latest version from FileMaker, which is a subsidiary of Apple, is now available for purchase, with the company calling the product a "breakthrough." For the first time, Bento integrates with iPhoto, allowing users to store information about photos and link them with contacts, projects, events, and other information within the software.

"Think of Bento 3 as a powerful, easy way to bring together all of your key Mac information and photos," said Ryan Rosenberg, vice president, marketing and services, FileMaker, Inc. "With Bento 3, we’re providing new ways for you to view and interact with your information so you can organize contacts, projects, events and even more details of your life."

Bento 3 costs $49 for a single license, or $99 for a five-license family pack. Users of Bento 1 or 2 can receive a $20 rebate for the upgrade. In addition, those who bought Bento 2 after Aug. 30 are qualified for a free upgrade. However, Apple authorized reseller MacMall is offering the single license version for $43.99 and the family pack for $89.99. The $20 rebate also applies.

Bento was released by the Apple software subsidiary FileMaker, Inc., in 2007. It is a multipurpose application designed for organizing information from a variety of sources. Version 2 debuted in late 2008.

According to FileMaker, new features in Bento 3 include:

Photo integration

See all your albums listed in the Bento Libraries pane automatically - no importing required.
View your iPhoto information inside Bento in the new Grid view, Table view, Form view or Split view.
Add additional fields and forms to store more information about your photos beyond what iPhoto stores.
Link photos to contacts, projects, events or other data stored in Bento.


Grid view

View any library in the new Grid view to show a grid of images or thumbnail views of your forms.
Customize the Grid view to display additional information under each thumbnail that is most relevant to you, like phone numbers or email addresses for all your contacts.
Create and view your own customized thumbnail forms. For example, say you have 40 products that you're selling. You could create a form where you have an image of the product next to the part number and price to see multiple product “cards” together on one screen.


Related data field - now with image thumbnails

See thumbnail images of a media in your Related data fields (formerly called the Related records list).
For example, you can link a list of guests to an event - and see a picture of each person.
Additional features are detailed at the official Web site. A free 30-day trial is also available.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[BenRoethig]

The filemaker brand needs to go away and Bento needs to become part of iWork.

[Dr Millmoss]

Does anyone have any experience with moving Filemaker databases to Bento? Can it even be done?

[GQB]

Version 3 of Bento and still no integration with iWeb. Unbelievable.
I think Filemaker is starting to make the mistake of thinking its a 'media company'.
Bad move guys.... Bento is a database... start making it function like one instead of thinking its iTunes or iPhoto.

[GQB]

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

Does anyone have any experience with moving Filemaker databases to Bento? Can it even be done?

You can move your data over fairly easily, but reports etc have to be created from scatch using Bento's own tools.
Its a nice little product, but don't expect it to be Filemaker.

[Gazoobee]

Originally Posted by GQB

You can move your data over fairly easily, but reports etc have to be created from scatch using Bento's own tools.
Its a nice little product, but don't expect it to be Filemaker.

Yeah, the trouble with Bento has always been that it's a database for "the average person," but that the average person doesn't really think they need a database, and wouldn't know how to make one work even if they did. So the kind of people smart enough to do interesting tricky things with it would rather just use FileMaker, and the kind of people who are targeted by Bento, end up using dedicated programs instead.

Bento would be excellent for that custom address book you always wanted, but the average user hasn't the skill to make it and the kind of person who does have that skill would not bother. Bento would be great for Mum's recipes, but she probably already uses "recipe keeping software" from some minor software company that produces only that product.

I think it will take a long time for Bento to catch on but it's still a good product. A lot could be gained on both sides by integrating it into iWork as others have mentioned. It would drive sales of FileMaker as well as iWork.

Getting rid of FileMaker as a brand would be a big mistake though. After all the years of work they put into it, FileMaker is finally a brand that people can take seriously in databases and they should ditch all that effort to re-represent the company through a silly "consumer oriented "product? That would be a really dumb move.

[Dr Millmoss]

Originally Posted by GQB

You can move your data over fairly easily, but reports etc have to be created from scatch using Bento's own tools.
Its a nice little product, but don't expect it to be Filemaker.

I know, but it does have relational capabilities so it's apparently not very different from earlier versions of Filemaker in terms of database management abilities. We use a fairly simple database for our invoicing (on FMP 5.5, which fortunately still works in Snow Leopard). I'd like to move this database to something more current that isn't overkill for the purpose. Bento seems like a good choice, but not if I have to recreate the entire thing from scratch.

[Strawberry]

I can't even think of a use for Bento. Is it for businesses?

[MacTel]

Originally Posted by GQB

Version 3 of Bento and still no integration with iWeb. Unbelievable.
I think Filemaker is starting to make the mistake of thinking its a 'media company'.
Bad move guys.... Bento is a database... start making it function like one instead of thinking its iTunes or iPhoto.

Yeah, I Apple would fold them back in and bundle Bento with iWork. iWork would be functionally complete then.

[GQB]

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

I know, but it does have relational capabilities so it's apparently not very different from earlier versions of Filemaker in terms of database management abilities. We use a fairly simple database for our invoicing (on FMP 5.5, which fortunately still works in Snow Leopard). I'd like to move this database to something more current that isn't overkill for the purpose. Bento seems like a good choice, but not if I have to recreate the entire thing from scratch.

Right... its a flat database.
But don't get me wrong. Bento is an excellent little tool, and relational databases are massive overkill for most home use. Even a lot of light business tools can be made with a flat database. Essentially, Bento can give you a lot of flexibility and formatting capabilities that all of those spreadsheets laying around could use.

But dammit, just make it talk to iWeb!

[djames42]

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

The filemaker brand needs to go away and Bento needs to become part of iWork.

I'm not sure that Filemaker itself needs to go away (although it's hard to imagine there's much acceptance against its target market), but I definitely agree that iWork is missing a database component and would love to see iWork rounded out with something like Bento.

That said, I've had a hard time accepting Bento. As a former DBA and a still heavy database user, I am one of those who knows why I need a database. Unfortunately, while Bento makes it very easy to create simple databases with elegant forms, I find it very lacking in functionality. I'm afraid I'm just still to used to getting at my data via queries; even access supports SQL!

So on my Macs, I have installed MySQL. It's free and far more powerful than Bento. Not nearly as user-friendly however, although there are front-end tools available...

[stuffe]

Originally Posted by Strawberry

I can't even think of a use for Bento. Is it for businesses?

You can't think of a use for a simple database application?

Joking aside, I bought it to replace the multiplying number of 3rd party apps that I had got or were considering for single uses - password apps, home inventory, book/cd/dvd cataloguing, recording serial number and software registration details - just really basic stuff that needed something better than a spreadsheet, but wasn't worth maintaining a collection of cheap shareware to do the job in a thousand different ways. Now I just use Bento, and as a bonus can sync to the iPhone also. It's basic, but it's flexible, and it has a consistent user interface for a myriad of tasks.

[Strawberry]

It's the end of the day and my brain is fried. I think I could apply it to our gym users.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by djames42

I'm not sure that Filemaker itself needs to go away (although it's hard to imagine there's much acceptance against its target market), but I definitely agree that iWork is missing a database component and would love to see iWork rounded out with something like Bento.

Jobs should have slapped Filemaker into submission years ago.

The Mac database company has failed to extend its business offerings, leaving the Mac platform without a proper CRM tool like ACT or Goldmine. Given that it wouldn't take Filemaker more than 10 minutes to write an ACT clone, this is inexcusable.

Why aren't more mobile salespeople buying the MacBook Air? Go ask Filemaker, Mr. Jobs.

Aside from the CRM debacle, Filemaker hasn't found a way to bring their database tech to the web in any meaningful way. Filemaker doesn't integrate easily with any Web Design tools, whether one uses Dreamweaver, Freeway or iWeb.

Lastly, the hottest thing out there right now is the iPhone, and Filemaker doesn't even have their own iApp solution. It seems to have left that market entirely to FM Touch, an outside vendor.

So a business or community organization wanting to arm salespeople or even door-to-door people with iPod Touch machines to gather information has to rely on third party solutions to get data from the Mac to the Touch and then back to the master database? Seriously?

Folding Filemaker into the iWork group could hardly make things worse.

[mstone]

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

The filemaker brand needs to go away and Bento needs to become part of iWork.

It would be unlike the other apps that replace MS Office applications because it cannot open and save MS Access files.

Pages = Word
Keynote = PowerPoint
Numbers = Excel
Bento != Access

[Dr Millmoss]

Originally Posted by GQB

Right... its a flat database.
But don't get me wrong. Bento is an excellent little tool, and relational databases are massive overkill for most home use. Even a lot of light business tools can be made with a flat database. Essentially, Bento can give you a lot of flexibility and formatting capabilities that all of those spreadsheets laying around could use.

Now maybe I read the description wrong, but it sounds like Bento is at least quasi-relational in the way it handles data libraries. Not that relational is a make-or-break for me. I'd simply like to have some way of moving databases I designed for FMP to Bento without a lot of heavily lifting. I also have a potential application for the mobile version that I'd like to try out. But no migration path is a pretty big bump in the road.

[PXT]

Originally Posted by djames42

I'm not sure that Filemaker itself needs to go away (although it's hard to imagine there's much acceptance against its target market), but I definitely agree that iWork is missing a database component and would love to see iWork rounded out with something like Bento.

That said, I've had a hard time accepting Bento. As a former DBA and a still heavy database user, I am one of those who knows why I need a database. Unfortunately, while Bento makes it very easy to create simple databases with elegant forms, I find it very lacking in functionality. I'm afraid I'm just still to used to getting at my data via queries; even access supports SQL!

So on my Macs, I have installed MySQL. It's free and far more powerful than Bento. Not nearly as user-friendly however, although there are front-end tools available...

It's a shame Bento does not use an open SQL framework underneath. The average user need not know anything about it.

One great thing about using SQL is that you own the data, regardless of whether you continue using the software. I'm always wary of putting my precious info into a proprietary format.

[Dr Millmoss]

Originally Posted by PXT

It's a shame Bento does not use an open SQL framework underneath. The average user need not know anything about it.

One great thing about using SQL is that you own the data, regardless of whether you continue using the saftware.

I think you just answered your own question.

[stuffe]

Originally Posted by mstone

It would be unlike the other apps that replace MS Office applications because it cannot open and save MS Access files.

Pages = Word
Keynote = PowerPoint
Numbers = Excel
Bento != Access

I think you are doing a disservice to iWork, by assuming that it's just there to mimic the functionality of Office.

It's not a direct comparison, frankly a better comparison might be with MS Works in a way. iWork != MS Office. If it did, you wouldn't get mail/calendar with the OS, and anyway Access was only ever available in the pro versions which were never really aimed at home users. I'd like to see Bento cuddle up with iWork, I think a lot of users would find it a good fit, especially as it is becoming so entwined with basic OS X apps and iLife.

[mr O]

Originally Posted by MacTel

Yeah, I Apple would fold them back in and bundle Bento with iWork. iWork would be functionally complete then.

Amen to that! … and Apple should get rid of all the fancy template clutter in Bento. No eye candy, just make it plain & easy on the eyes like all the other apps in Mac OSX.

Really, who needs lots of typefaces and colour backdrops? I got rid of Bento because of that.

[BenRoethig]

Originally Posted by mstone

It would be unlike the other apps that replace MS Office applications because it cannot open and save MS Access files.

Pages = Word
Keynote = PowerPoint
Numbers = Excel
Bento != Access

But its fine for iWork which is more a consumer suite (Works competitor) with better functionality than a Office suite. iWork's import export functionality is better for importing your personal files into iWork formats and exporting if need be. Working with office files on a daily basis is problematic.

[Feynman]

Bento has the ability to export to the following formats: Numbers (.numbers),* Excel (.xlsx) and Text (.csv, .tab). This data can then be manipulated in another application to your liking.

That's FileMakers response to exporting to the web.

Unacceptable.

If iWork is compariable to Bento and MS Office is compariable to FileMakerPro, we Bento users should have to only have Export to iWeb rather than go through all the steps to get there ourselves.

[djames42]

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

Now maybe I read the description wrong, but it sounds like Bento is at least quasi-relational in the way it handles data libraries. Not that relational is a make-or-break for me. I'd simply like to have some way of moving databases I designed for FMP to Bento without a lot of heavily lifting. I also have a potential application for the mobile version that I'd like to try out. But no migration path is a pretty big bump in the road.

I think that if you're experienced enough to use FMP (which it sounds like you are), then you should be able to perform your own migration. Create some csv/text-based reports to export your data and use their output to import into like-tables in Bento. Assuming you don't have many tables in your database(s), it shoudn't take too long.

While FMP has a "import from Bento" option, that's a logical progression. I doubt they anticipate many people migrating the other way.

Originally Posted by PXT

It's a shame Bento does not use an open SQL framework underneath. The average user need not know anything about it.

One great thing about using SQL is that you own the data, regardless of whether you continue using the software. I'm always wary of putting my precious info into a proprietary format.

Agreed - that's what Access does; even though Jet is really not very good, it is at least a proper relational SQL-based database engine.

FMP supports ODBC connectivity and so I believe it can be used to create pretty front-end access to other databases (such as MySQL). Access can also speak to other databases and has (if memory serves) native access to SQL Server.

I'm pretty sure Bento only speaks Bento.

But here we've been discussing the integration of it into iWork, and for most iWork users, it would be an excellent addition to round out a fantastic office suite (I don't know about others here, but I removed Office 2004 from my machines after iWork '08 came out, and while I have Office 2008 on my work Mini [for Exchange access], I very rarely use Word/Excel or PowerPoint, finding the iWork equivalents much better for 90% of my needs -- especially Keynote, which kicks PowerPoint's arse).

[Gazoobee]

Originally Posted by PXT

... One great thing about using SQL is that you own the data, regardless of whether you continue using the software. I'm always wary of putting my precious info into a proprietary format.

This is a ridiculous comment. At least it is the way you've phrased it here. What do you even mean by "own the data"???

Data in a database is just plain old data, it's the relationships in the data that you create with the database that determines whether you use one database or another.

I've never seen a database where the user doesn't "own" the data, either because they put the data in there in the first place, or because they have backed it up from the database they are using, or exported it from the same database for transfer to a different one.

The idea that a user "doesn't own" their data if they use Bento, and that this is somehow a big issue is ridiculous.

[Gazoobee]

Originally Posted by mr O

... Apple should get rid of all the fancy template clutter in Bento. No eye candy, just make it plain & easy on the eyes like all the other apps in Mac OSX.

Really, who needs lots of typefaces and colour backdrops? I got rid of Bento because of that.

You do realise that without the typefaces and colour backdrops that Bento is basically just a spreadsheet right?

The whole point of Bento is to make simple flat-file databases "available to the masses" by making them attractive and easy to use. Without the "attractive and easy to use" part, they might as well not bother at all.

[djames42]

Originally Posted by Gazoobee

This is a ridiculous comment. At least it is the way you've phrased it here. What do you even mean by "own the data"???

I think you misunderstood the comment. What the poster was referring to was the fact that, if the data was stored in a non-proprietary system (like Bento), it would be accessible even if the application was no longer available/supported.

If Bento used a standard database engine for storage, one would have a multitude of options available for retrieving and manipulating the data, regardless of what 'front-end' tool was used for creating it.

[Chris_CA]

Any AppleScript support in this version?

[Dr Millmoss]

Originally Posted by djames42

I think that if you're experienced enough to use FMP (which it sounds like you are), then you should be able to perform your own migration. Create some csv/text-based reports to export your data and use their output to import into like-tables in Bento. Assuming you don't have many tables in your database(s), it shoudn't take too long.

While FMP has a "import from Bento" option, that's a logical progression. I doubt they anticipate many people migrating the other way.

Apparently. I was a FMP jock in the day, but that day was quite a few years ago now, and I've lost interest in keeping up those skills. I know I can export the FMP data but the real issue is recreating the data fields in Bento and matching up the fields properly for import. I get a headache just thinking about it (having gone thorough this exercise many times with FMP). I question whether it's worth the time/effort/money to find out if moving to Bento is feasible. One of these days FMP 5.5 will break with an OS update. Then I will be forced to decide!

[Gazoobee]

Originally Posted by Frank777

... Filemaker hasn't found a way to bring their database tech to the web in any meaningful way. Filemaker doesn't integrate easily with any Web Design tools, whether one uses Dreamweaver, Freeway or iWeb.

Actually this is a big misrepresentation on your part. You may not like their tools, but FileMaker has been very easy to integrate with the web for at least 5 to 7 years and was a bit ahead of the curve on that when they first implemented it about 5 full versions ago. Currently FileMaker 10 has one button web publishing of any FileMaker solution. Seriously, you just have to tick a box and make the layout available on the web (a preference) and that's it.

You may not like this approach, you may wish that it integrated with Dreamweaver etc., but to maintain that they "haven't found a way to bring their database tech to the web," is seriously wrong and misleading.

Originally Posted by Frank777

... Lastly, the hottest thing out there right now is the iPhone, and Filemaker doesn't even have their own iApp solution ...

Bento? WTF?

Again, you are being really misleading here. Bento and Bento for iPhone fill this need whether you like it or not, and the solution is as much "theirs" as anyone else's since they provide it to you.

[digitalclips]

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

I know, but it does have relational capabilities so it's apparently not very different from earlier versions of Filemaker in terms of database management abilities. We use a fairly simple database for our invoicing (on FMP 5.5, which fortunately still works in Snow Leopard). I'd like to move this database to something more current that isn't overkill for the purpose. Bento seems like a good choice, but not if I have to recreate the entire thing from scratch.

Been there tried that. You'd be better IMHO upgrading to File Maker Pro. Having said that, I have not seen Bento 3 so this may be better ... I look forward to testing this myself.

[Gazoobee]

Originally Posted by djames42

I think you misunderstood the comment. What the poster was referring to was the fact that, if the data was stored in a non-proprietary system (like Bento), it would (sic) be accessible even if the application was no longer available/supported.

If Bento used a standard database engine for storage, one would have a multitude of options available for retrieving and manipulating the data, regardless of what 'front-end' tool was used for creating it.

No. I am a database professional myself.

I understand the reference, I just think it's a disingenuous "catchphrase" that really has little meaning. The idea that if I am using Bento, my data is "stuck" in Bento is both silly and misleading in terms of the real world experience of the user. Name a single database that doesn't export it's data using a variety of very standard (haven't changed for about 10 years) formats and methods for instance.

[digitalclips]

Originally Posted by Gazoobee

Yeah, the trouble with Bento has always been that it's a database for "the average person," but that the average person doesn't really think they need a database, and wouldn't know how to make one work even if they did. So the kind of people smart enough to do interesting tricky things with it would rather just use FileMaker, and the kind of people who are targeted by Bento, end up using dedicated programs instead.

Bento would be excellent for that custom address book you always wanted, but the average user hasn't the skill to make it and the kind of person who does have that skill would not bother. Bento would be great for Mum's recipes, but she probably already uses "recipe keeping software" from some minor software company that produces only that product.

I think it will take a long time for Bento to catch on but it's still a good product. A lot could be gained on both sides by integrating it into iWork as others have mentioned. It would drive sales of FileMaker as well as iWork.

Getting rid of FileMaker as a brand would be a big mistake though. After all the years of work they put into it, FileMaker is finally a brand that people can take seriously in databases and they should ditch all that effort to re-represent the company through a silly "consumer oriented "product? That would be a really dumb move.

I totally agree with all you say here.

[Dr Millmoss]

Originally Posted by digitalclips

Been there tried that. You'd be better IMHO upgrading to File Maker Pro. Having said that, I have not seen Bento 3 so this may be better ... I look forward to testing this myself.

Hm. The problem is that we need it for two Macs -- $600. Ouch.

[digitalclips]

Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss

Hm. The problem is that we need it for two Mac -- $600. Ouch.

I hear you!

I am about to get upgrade to 3 so will know more soon. I suspect though it is really an iLife type product (and excellent for that purpose) and will never do the stuff we FMP folks take for granted.

p.s. I hope I am wrong and 3 is far better.

[mstone]

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

But its fine for iWork which is more a consumer suite (Works competitor) with better functionality than a Office suite. iWork's import export functionality is better for importing your personal files into iWork formats and exporting if need be. Working with office files on a daily basis is problematic.

I guess so since the standard version of MS Office on Windows doesn't have Access either (nor does the Mac version obviously) What is really a nuisance is keeping a Windows machine around with a copy of MS Access. I had Parallels and Win OfficePro on my MBP but after SL upgrade it doesn't work. I have to decide what to do , whether to switch to Boot Camp, upgrade Parallels, or go with Fusion.

[digitalclips]

Originally Posted by mstone

I guess so since the standard version of MS Office on Windows doesn't have Access either (nor does the Mac version obviously) What is really a nuisance is keeping a Windows machine around with a copy of MS Access. I had Parallels and Win OfficePro on my MBP but after SL upgrade it doesn't work. I have to decide what to do , whether to switch to Boot Camp, upgrade Parallels, or go with Fusion.

Parallels is still working for me in SL ... I have version 4.0.3, I also have VM and prefer Parallels at this point in time.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by Gazoobee

Actually this is a big misrepresentation on your part. You may not like their tools, but FileMaker has been very easy to integrate with the web for at least 5 to 7 years and was a bit ahead of the curve on that when they first implemented it about 5 full versions ago. Currently FileMaker 10 has one button web publishing of any FileMaker solution. Seriously, you just have to tick a box and make the layout available on the web (a preference) and that's it.

You may not like this approach, you may wish that it integrated with Dreamweaver etc., but to maintain that they "haven't found a way to bring their database tech to the web," is seriously wrong and misleading.

Yes, "one button publishing" does exist. I know absolutely no-one who uses it.

They were ahead of the curve several years ago, then they slapped a $1000 tax on using Filemaker on the web and everybody went to PHP/SQL. Shades of the Firewire license fee all over again. They really are owned by Apple.

Originally Posted by Gazoobee

Again, you are being really misleading here. Bento and Bento for iPhone fill this need whether you like it or not, and the solution is as much "theirs" as anyone else's since they provide it to you.

Yes, Bento does have its own iApp. I was talking about Filemaker Pro, which is far more suited to the multi-user iPod Touch application example I was referring to.

[djames42]

Originally Posted by Gazoobee

No. I am a database professional myself.

I understand the reference, I just think it's a disingenuous "catchphrase" that really has little meaning. The idea that if I am using Bento, my data is "stuck" in Bento is both silly and misleading in terms of the real world experience of the user. Name a single database that doesn't export it's data using a variety of very standard (haven't changed for about 10 years) formats and methods for instance.

Fair enough - I hadn't noticed your previous posts that showed you knew what you were talking about . And certainly you're right in that nearly every database supports common export options. I suppose one could argue that Bento almost certainly does use a (somewhat) proprietary database engine. It's required Leopard since day one, and so it probably relies on CoreData.

Originally Posted by mstone

I guess so since the standard version of MS Office on Windows doesn't have Access either (nor does the Mac version obviously) What is really a nuisance is keeping a Windows machine around with a copy of MS Access. I had Parallels and Win OfficePro on my MBP but after SL upgrade it doesn't work. I have to decide what to do , whether to switch to Boot Camp, upgrade Parallels, or go with Fusion.

Do you really need Access? There are certainly other routes to take on the Mac.

Shame Oracle didn't keep up development of PowerObjects. They released a very nice Mac version of the tool back in the day!

[djames42]

Originally Posted by digitalclips

Parallels is still working for me in SL ... I have version 4.0.3, I also have VM and prefer Parallels at this point in time.

Older versions of Parallels (2.x I believe) do not work with SL.

I finally had reason to give Fusion a good workout last week (I've been a Parallels user for several years) and was quite disappointed. I can't believe this is a universal fault, but every time I disconnected and removed a USB drive, the external drive holding my VM was also ejected locking up my VM and causing me to lose whatever I was working on (fortunately I escaped corruption of the VM).

I've never had this happen with Parallels.

[mstone]

Originally Posted by djames42

Do you really need Access? There are certainly other routes to take on the Mac.

Shame Oracle didn't keep up development of PowerObjects. They released a very nice Mac version of the tool back in the day!

Unfortunately yes since 99.9% of our customers are very Windows centric and we have to run a lot of mdb files on Windows web servers. Which I have to say pretty sweet the way you can directly address the file without it being a system odbc object using asp or .Net.

The usual scenario is that I make a new database with an empty table on the Windows box and I upload it to the server, Remote desktop in to it set the permission (tedious required step) and then I can manipulate it any way I want through asp. Add columns, tables. data etc using my Mac.