Latest Snow Leopard build resurrects Atom compatibility

[AppleInsider]

Development build 10C535 of Snow Leopard update 10.6.2 retains Intel Atom support after the previous build had killed compatibility with the processor.

According to the developer blog which initially told of the Atom incompatibility, the latest build of OS X 10.6.2 does retain support for Atom chips. It was previously reported that support for the Intel chip had been dropped, a move that many believed was Apple's attempt to stop the small but burgeoning "Hackintosh" netbook community. This all may change when the final 10.6.2 build is released, but as of now Atom support has returned.

Intel's Atom processor is a low-power, low-cost chip which is intended for notebooks and ultra-mobile PCs. No current Apple products use the chip, but a community has formed around installing Snow Leopard on so called "Hackintosh" netbook PCs which use the Atom processor. This unauthorized use of Apple's operating system has grown in popularity since the release of small, inexpensive notebooks such as the Dell Mini 10v, which allowed for easy installs of OS X.

Last year, it was reported that an executive at Intel had publicly vouched for the Atom processor to be used in Apple's tablet. With the buyout of chip designer P.A. Semi, many believe that Apple is instead designing its own chips for the platform.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[2992]

rumoring around... it's soo cool!

[JeffDM]

Maybe it was just a bug? Incomplete work? Details in that blog post on exactly what broke and why are practically nonexistent. Developer seeds aren't the final word anyway. It sounds like something in the software was refactored and the work wasn't finished.

I don't think it matters what you're running, hackintosh or not, you should do a backup before doing any updates. Updates change system files, you never know if the software encounters an unexpected condition or there is some kind of power loss or data hiccup in the computer.

[Tofino]

Originally Posted by 2992

rumoring around... it's soo cool!

brings in the eyballs though, doesn't it?

[Kolchak]

Even if it was intentional, I suspect Apple realized that anything they could do, the Hackintosh community can undo (with time). They're already in an arms race with regards to iPhone jailbreaking. They don't need to open another front. It just eats up limited programming resources that would be better used stomping bugs and improving features.

[BenRoethig]

It was either a bug that happened to also break other things and was corrected or there was just a little too much bad press on the subject and Apple figured the effort wasn't worth it.

[Quadra 610]

Originally Posted by Kolchak

Even if it was intentional, I suspect Apple realized that anything they could do, the Hackintosh community can undo (with time). They're already in an arms race with regards to iPhone jailbreaking. They don't need to open another front. It just eats up limited programming resources that would be better used stomping bugs and improving features.

I doubt it had anything to do with Apple feeling pressure from the hackintosh community or anything like that.

[Quadra 610]

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

It was either a bug that happened to also break other things and was corrected or there was just a little too much bad press on the subject and Apple figured the effort wasn't worth it.

What bad press? Bad press about Apple making it more difficult for infringers to install OS X on unauthorized hardware?? The bulk of Apple's market doesn't even know what hackintoshes are and wouldn't give a sweet damn even if they did.

The Atom issue had nothing to do with the hackintosh community - that is actually a minority of the minority Mac fan community on the ass end of the web.

The first part of your post was dollars-to-donuts closer to the truth: it was a bug.

[Kolchak]

Originally Posted by Quadra 610

I doubt it had anything to do with Apple feeling pressure from the hackintosh community or anything like that.

I never said there was pressure. But why waste limited resources trying to kill a small segment of the illicit market, especially when there's a good chance it could be undone? It's not like jailbreaking and unlocking iPhones, which a ton of people would do if Apple didn't keep fighting against it.

Originally Posted by Quadra 610

The Atom issue had nothing to do with the hackintosh community - that is actually a minority of the minority Mac fan community on the ass end of the web.

Yeah, we get it. You don't like Hackintoshes. But you're also awfully ignorant about them. At any given moment, there are hundreds of people on any of several torrents of OSX86 bootloaders and hacked Snow Leopard installs. Thousands more on the various forums dedicated to the craft. I'd even venture to say a lot of these people know a lot more about their systems than you, me or other "average" Mac owners. Some of their instructions with detailed Terminal commands leave me stumped, and I do a lot of support for Mac-owning friends and family.

By the way, have you ever wondered what the "multi-quote" button is for?

[yuusharo]

Technically speaking, the update never actually "killed" Atom support. At worst, atom users would simply have to revert to an older or patched kernel to get back up an running, something that many hackintoshes, especially AMD, have to do anyway. There was never really any cause for so much fuss.

Anyway, I remember reading buried reports of people with legitimate macs having issues with that last build, so it was most likely just a bug in the kernel. Squashed, and now the sensational story can rest for now.

[Quadra 610]

delete.

[ranson]

Apple is not the least bit concerned with home enthusiasts who make a hobby out of getting OSX running on unauthorized machines. Rather, they are concerned with the likes of Psystar who are looking to make a dime by exploiting Apple's IP. Efforts to block these hobbyists would cost Apple more R&D than it's really worth.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

Maybe it was just a bug? Incomplete work? Details in that blog post on exactly what broke and why are practically nonexistent. Developer seeds aren't the final word anyway. It sounds like something in the software was refactored and the work wasn't finished.

I don't think it matters what you're running, hackintosh or not, you should do a backup before doing any updates. Updates change system files, you never know if the software encounters an unexpected condition or there is some kind of power loss or data hiccup in the computer.

The whole “theory” was silly. If you want to bring down the hobbiest you don’t do it for a crappy Atom CPU a couple of point updates in. You build it into a new major version of the OS X and you do it by tightening up the whole system. On top of that, Apple’s overall lack of concern for them, sans Psystar.

[hillstones]

Just the usual AppleInsider spreading FUD about INCOMPLETE beta versions of software.

[MacTripper]

Originally Posted by BenRoethig

It was either a bug that happened to also break other things and was corrected or there was just a little too much bad press on the subject and Apple figured the effort wasn't worth it.

Nope, I'm willing to bet Apple just figured out a better method than disabling. Where as hackers would then enable with a hacked version of OS X and promote downloads instead of buying a legal copy of OS X and installing it that way.

I suspect Apple will instead alter OS X to the point that it will run like molasses on Atom processors with some new features, integrate existing ones to run in the background or something.

Get all those netbook babies to trade up to a real Mac.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by MacTripper

Nope, I'm willing to bet Apple just figured out a better method than disabling. Where as hackers would then enable with a hacked version of OS X and promote downloads instead of buying a legal copy of OS X and installing it that way.

I suspect Apple will instead alter OS X to the point that it will run like molasses on Atom processors with some new features, integrate existing ones to run in the background or something.

Get all those netbook babies to trade up to a real Mac.

None of that makes sense from a tactical standpoint. If they were going to do this, building it into SL was the time to do it.

Say, for instance, Apple did make it impossible for all Hackintoshes to install 10.6.2, not just netbooks where Apple doesn’t even compete. All they’d have to do is keep running 10.6.1. It’s not overly buggy and there is nothing exciting to make them want to even update. Plus, it gives the savvy OSx86 hackers plenty of time to figure it all out before 10.7 hits. That will likely have a completely redesigned UI, and OpenCL and GDC apps should be in full effect by then. That is what they should be planning for if they plan to keep out the hobbyists, which I don’t think they worry about.

[Cubert]

OK. I know some about programing in Cocoa and the structure of OS X, but can someone explain what exactly needs to be removed to eliminate support for a particular processor class?

[jeffsters]

What kills me is this "build" is more than a week old! While the Mac press was going on and on about this the build they are saying has the support was already out!

What ever...you guys need to verify things and not just feed off one another like lemmings.

This has truly been a Mac press fiasco!

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by jeffsters

What kills me is this "build" is more than a week old! While the Mac press was going on and on about this the build they are saying has the support was already out!

What ever...you guys need to verify things and not just feed off one another like lemmings.

This has truly been a Mac press fiasco!

"Latest Snow Leopard build resurrects Atom compatibility.” That is build 10C540, which was released today, hence the follow up article.

[Kolchak]

Originally Posted by ranson

Apple is not the least bit concerned with home enthusiasts who make a hobby out of getting OSX running on unauthorized machines. Rather, they are concerned with the likes of Psystar who are looking to make a dime by exploiting Apple's IP.

Except Psystar doesn't make or sell any systems that use Atom processors. Only netbooks and nettops use them, and Psystar doesn't do either. Although if they could find a very compatible motherboard, such a nettop would make a good competitor for the Mac mini.

Efforts to block these hobbyists would cost Apple more R&D than it's really worth.

I believe that's what I previously wrote.

Originally Posted by MacTripper

Get all those netbook babies to trade up to a real Mac.

No, thanks. I have "real Macs." I also own a Hackintosh with a much better price/performance ratio than Mac Pros. And I have a netbook running 10.6.1. When Apple makes a supersmall, superlight system that I can type things on and do other light work up to and including running Adobe CS4 apps, maybe I'll "trade up." And no, an iPhone doesn't count. Last I saw, it doesn't run Mac apps.

[jragosta]

Originally Posted by MacTripper

I suspect Apple will instead alter OS X to the point that it will run like molasses on Atom processors

That won't take much. Atom runs most things like molasses.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by jragosta

That won't take much. Atom runs most things like molasses.

[plovell]

Originally Posted by jragosta

That won't take much. Atom runs most things like molasses.

The Atom actually isn't too bad. I have a small box running CentOS (similar to Red Hat RHEL) and it's reasonably quick. Not as fast as a Mac Pro, or even that CentOS running in VMware Fusion there, but quite acceptable.

No molasses at all

[SinisterJoe]

Several people on the Hackintosh community forums are saying compatibility was never actually broken -- speculating the original source simply had some other unrelated problem. I don't care that random blogs have been repeating this story but Wired reported it and they supposedly employee real journalists.

[iLad]

it was not only 10.6.2 but also 10.5.9 that apparently dropped support for ATOM. I wonder if they added this back to have hackintoshes updated to it then kill it. I know sounds stupid but Apple has been doing such insane things, twlight zone like things lately and SJ has completely lost it.

iTunes 9 is horrible can't believe that monstrosity even came from Apple, had to downgrade stat. Not to mention taking out composite/s-video capability in their macbooks. So because of itunes 9 i'm shut out of any new apple goodies. For the first time apple actually has force me out of thier camp and into actually considering buying windows machines to accomplish what i used to be able to do with macs. With Windows 7 the proposition is not so bad. Sorry Apple. I never thought after being a fanboy for 25 years that a day would come when i despise Apple and see them as prison wardens. Welcome to the Shawshank years at apple.

[freelander51]

Originally Posted by Quadra 610

What bad press? Bad press about Apple making it more difficult for infringers to install OS X on unauthorized hardware?? [...]
The Atom issue had nothing to do with the hackintosh community - that is actually a minority of the minority Mac fan community on the ass end of the web.

1st of all : there are a few countries out there, where the bit of the unauthorized hardware is not valid. In quite a few european countries such a clause, which is part of the EULA, has to be communicated to the customer BEFORE he oens the packaging and thus forfeits his right for return. A law that actually makes sense. But then again, Apple continues to violate the European directive that imposes TWO as opposed to one year of warranty. But that is a different story.

2nd : I own and still operate the following fleet of computers, iBook 12", MacBook 1st gen 13", iMac 1st gen Intel 17" AND a MSI Wind U123 as hackintosh. Oh and an iPhone and about four iPods flying around the house.

For me the Wind does just what its supposed to do, serve as an email, web, note taking, social networking device, that weighs next to nothing, has five hours of battery and fits into every pocket. And given its low value is -to some extend- expendable if lost/stolen. But then again, contrary to the MacBooks, the Wind actually fits into a Hotel room safe, which is not always (<30%) the case for its expensive cousins

And it is arse end of the world BTW

[Quadra 610]

Originally Posted by freelander51

1st of all : there are a few countries out there, where the bit of the unauthorized hardware is not valid. In quite a few european countries such a clause, which is part of the EULA, has to be communicated to the customer BEFORE he oens the packaging and thus forfeits his right for return. A law that actually makes sense. But then again, Apple continues to violate the European directive that imposes TWO as opposed to one year of warranty. But that is a different story.

2nd : I own and still operate the following fleet of computers, iBook 12", MacBook 1st gen 13", iMac 1st gen Intel 17" AND a MSI Wind U123 as hackintosh. Oh and an iPhone and about four iPods flying around the house.

For me the Wind does just what its supposed to do, serve as an email, web, note taking, social networking device, that weighs next to nothing, has five hours of battery and fits into every pocket. And given its low value is -to some extend- expendable if lost/stolen. But then again, contrary to the MacBooks, the Wind actually fits into a Hotel room safe, which is not always (<30%) the case for its expensive cousins

And it is arse end of the world BTW

Ok. The "bad press", still . . . won't be. It makes no difference.

And I had no idea that "fits into a hotel room safe" was a big selling point, beyond something only anecdotally useful. If I stand my Macbook Pro on its side and open it up, it makes an excellent bookend. Should Apple be advertising that?

[brucep]

Originally Posted by Kolchak

Even if it was intentional, I suspect Apple realized that anything they could do, the Hackintosh community can undo (with time). They're already in an arms race with regards to iPhone jailbreaking. They don't need to open another front. It just eats up limited programming resources that would be better used stomping bugs and improving features.

no way jose . apple will extend the rope for miles and miles
and then apple will cut
leaving the thieves and knaves spinning in the wind
apple will go after hacktoshes and disable there crappy machines
they will burn the ... sorry COD is making me nuts ,

[brucep]

Originally Posted by hillstones

Just the usual AppleInsider spreading FUD about INCOMPLETE beta versions of software.

and we crash and then apple knows what to fix

[brucep]

Originally Posted by jeffsters

What kills me is this "build" is more than a week old! While the Mac press was going on and on about this the build they are saying has the support was already out!

What ever...you guys need to verify things and not just feed off one another like lemmings.

This has truly been a Mac press fiasco!

hey for a first post you really blew it
kidding


but you are correct on the first article the whole forum ran straight off one cliff
and now the second article 100 percent refutes the first we see the whole board running the other way off a new cliff .
as for the press ? >>> with anything apple any news at all sells more stuff
nature of rhe apple beast

here is a gift apple from me . <<<  >>>

peace 9

[brucep]

Originally Posted by SinisterJoe

Several people on the Hackintosh community forums are saying compatibility was never actually broken -- speculating the original source simply had some other unrelated problem. I don't care that random blogs have been repeating this story but Wired reported it and they supposedly employee real journalists.

these asswipes have there own >>> Hackintosh community forums<<<this is so low that i ....well i will say that
there a bunch of thieves
there the scum of the earth stealing from millions of apple and apple third party paid employee's

and if your name was not so scary i would have a bash at you joey .
i will celebrate the day apple fries of your hackmosh hard drives .

next

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by brucep

no way jose . apple will extend the rope for miles and miles
and then apple will cut
leaving the thieves and knaves spinning in the wind
apple will go after hacktoshes and disable there crappy machines
they will burn the ... sorry COD is making me nuts ,

I guess Apple fans need to get their talking points straight, are there a significant number of Hackintoshes or not? If it's not significant like some say, then it's not worth spending resources trying to break them, especially if there's a risk of collateral damage, causing problems for legit customers.

[Quadra 610]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

I guess Apple fans need to get their talking points straight, are there a significant number of Hackintoshes or not? If it's not significant like some say, then it's not worth spending resources trying to break them, especially if there's a risk of collateral damage, causing problems for legit customers.

Good question. But what would qualify as significant?

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

I guess Apple fans need to get their talking points straight, are there a significant number of Hackintoshes or not? If it's not significant like some say, then it's not worth spending resources trying to break them, especially if there's a risk of collateral damage, causing problems for legit customers.

I think if you were to compare to the number of Mac users today or even to the number of Mac users back at the Intel transition it would be insignificant, but that doesn’t really give figures. Then there is also the ability to attack the source successfully.

Apple can’t go after the OSx96 Project the same way it can go after Psystar. If they issued a cease and desist to tehir website, which doesn’t actually contain any of Apple’s copyrighted code, the best case scenario would be the site moving outside the US to a server that couldn’t be touched by Apple’s legal team.

Then there is the give and take effect of the hobbyists. I know of and have read more than a couple statements that people whose first Mac was a Hackintosh bought a real Mac as their next computer. The biggest problem with the OSx86 Project seems to be the creation of Psystar and I’m sure even that is not affect Apple as much as it needs to set precedence. The lawyers will have cost Apple more than Psystar could have possibly made.

[camroidv27]

Yay!

I guess this means that the Tablet may be a full fledged computer capable of OS X!
Also, good news for the Hackintosh community too!

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by Quadra 610

Good question. But what would qualify as significant?

I really don't know, that is subjective. It would be nice to somehow see reputable estimates as to how common it is.

Originally Posted by brucep

these asswipes have there own >>> Hackintosh community forums<<<this is so low that i ....well i will say that
there a bunch of thieves
there the scum of the earth stealing from millions of apple and apple third party paid employee's

and if your name was not so scary i would have a bash at you joey .
i will celebrate the day apple fries of your hackmosh hard drives .

If you mean the loss of millions of dollars of business, then worrying about about hackintosh would be like quitting a paying job to make money picking up pennies at a recreational park. Millions just doesn't stack up to Apple's billions.

[jeffsters]

Originally Posted by solipsism

"Latest Snow Leopard build resurrects Atom compatibility.” That is build 10C540, which was released today, hence the follow up article.

Noted!

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by jeffsters

There is no Build 10C540 on the ADC site or the Internal Apple Employee sites so you must have this info, again, on high authority!

Yes, the highest authority… the Internet. Other sites are reporting differently…

• http://www.macrumors.com/2009/11/04/...to-developers/

[2oh1]

I can't help wondering if Apple is intentionally making it possible for people to Hackintosh low end PCs. I wonder if Apple views the Hackintosh community as a way to get more PC users into the Mac under the theory that their next laptops are more likely to be real Macs.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by 2oh1

I can't help wondering if Apple is intentionally making it possible for people to Hackintosh low end PCs. I wonder if Apple views the Hackintosh community as a way to get more PC users into the Mac under the theory that their next laptops are more likely to be real Macs.

I think there is some truth to that. There are even some hardcore OSx86 coders that feel that Apple has been helping to some degree. Well, not hindering is a better term.