HP adds shuffle to its iPod lineup

[AppleInsider]

Hewlett-Packard on Friday rounded out its lineup of digital music players, adding the Apple iPod shuffle to its mix.

HP will offer both models: the $99.99 512 megabyte version, which holds up to 120 songs, and the $129.99 1 gigabyte version, which holds up to 240 songs.

Users can charge and transfer music from their PC by plugging the Apple iPod shuffle from HP directly into a USB port. The device also doubles as a portable USB flash drive to back up personal files or exchange them between computers.

In addition to the Apple iPod shuffle from HP, HP also offers 4 GB and 6 GB Apple iPod minis; 20 GB and 60 GB Apple iPods; 10-packs of HP Printable Tattoos for the iPod; and 5-packs of HP Printable Tattoos for the iPod mini.

HP's Total Care customer support covers all Apple iPod from HP models. This includes one year of phone support and a one-year limited warranty. The Apple iPod shuffle from HP is available today to consumers in the United States and Canada online at hpshopping.com and is expected soon at major retailers, including Radio Shack, Sears and Wal-Mart.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[melgross]

I read somewhere, a few months ago that Hp's sales of iPods had slipped to about 3% of total iPod sales. It was 16% earlier.

I'm not sure I believe that though, or why would they expand the lineup?

I'd like to see their numbers broken out.

[syno]

why does HP sell apple ipods, and whats the diffrence?

[BenRoethig]

It's still a good deal for both Apple and HP.

[Kasper]

Originally posted by syno
why does HP sell apple ipods, and whats the diffrence?

Nothing cept the engraving on the metal plate in the back of the players.

It gives HP a music player (the best and most popular) to sell and make $ of off without having to invest R&D.

For Apple, they have to share the profit margin but they gain a huge new market and outlet for the players and effectively assure themselves they won't have to compete with HP all at the same time... among other things.

It's a win-win for both sides.

Best,

-K

[a_greer]

Originally posted by Kasper
Nothing cept the engraving on the metal plate in the back of the players.

It gives HP a music player (the best and most popular) to sell and make $ of off without having to invest R&D.

For Apple, they have to share the profit margin but they gain a huge new market and outlet for the players and effectively assure themselves they won't have to compete with HP all at the same time... among other things.

It's a win-win for both sides.

Best,

-K

very true, look at the iPaq, hardware wise it is one of the best palmtop devices ever, you wouldn't want those brains up against you in the portable music market where HP wouldnt be tied to he ball n' chain of a windows baced OS

(drifts off and dreams of an iPaq running Palm)

[CosmoNut]

I think some of the original logic of this co-op was to get iPods into the hands of those who couldn't bring themselves to buy an exclusively Apple iPod. For whatever reason, there are probably some out there that think there's no way an Apple-only iPod could be compatible with their machine. An Apple iPod from HP, however: "Gosh, we've got an HP computer and that iPod is from HP. It'll work flawlessly!"

Go figure.

[melgross]

Originally posted by CosmoNut
I think some of the original logic of this co-op was to get iPods into the hands of those who couldn't bring themselves to buy an exclusively Apple iPod. For whatever reason, there are probably some out there that think there's no way an Apple-only iPod could be compatible with their machine. An Apple iPod from HP, however: "Gosh, we've got an HP computer and that iPod is from HP. It'll work flawlessly!"

Go figure.

That's certainly part of it. But it also gets them into dealers that Apple isn't already in.

The same idea is behind calling Filemaker inc. rather than Filemaker from Apple. Many corporate types wouldn't allow an Apple product into their shop. Nowhere to be found in any advertising or in any catalog carrying Filemaker is the word "Apple" present. It's always Filemaker inc.

[macFanDave]

Originally posted by syno
why does HP sell apple ipods, and whats the diffrence?

Remember during the years when South Africa had apartheid, we in America would buy diamonds from Holland or Germany? Have you heard of the diamond mines of Holland or Germany?!

Not that Apple is like apartheid-era South Africa, but there are some people that, for whatever insane reason, cannot bring themselves to buy an Apple product, but they will buy an HP product. I find it interesting that there is no effort to hide Apple's involvement in the product.

You do what you gotta do.

[mmmpie]

Yay, now Ill be able to get a shuffle from costco.
I hope HP start selling Macs as well

Heres a thought, if HP made their own player, what sort of market share do you think they would get? Seems to me that 3% of the market is pretty good, when their investment is basically zero.

[amac4me]

Considering that Apple already has a "partnership" with HP to sell iPods, I would think that if Apple deciced to license OS X to PC manufacturers, HP might be the first one on the list.

Think about it ... a few weeks ago Michael Dell, the Chairman of Dell computer indicated that he would be open to selling PC's with OS X installed. Perhaps this is a sign to Apple that Dell might offer a better reseller proposition than HP. This attempt by Dell might be a ploy to get Apple to consider licensing OS X to Dell instead of HP.

Any thoughts?

[melgross]

Originally posted by mmmpie
Yay, now Ill be able to get a shuffle from costco.
I hope HP start selling Macs as well

Heres a thought, if HP made their own player, what sort of market share do you think they would get? Seems to me that 3% of the market is pretty good, when their investment is basically zero.

Remember, I'm not sure if that number is correct.

But if Hp were to make their own player, it would be a WMA player, or something else that would not be compatable with Apple's Fairplay. That would mean that they would have to compete in the non-iPod market, which at this time is 14% of the entire market as Apple's players (including Hp's) comprise 76%.

How would Hp, a late arrival, fare in that market? If they took 10% of it, that would only be 1.4% of the market in total.

They are doing much better now.

[mike12309]

Originally posted by Kasper


For Apple, they have to share the profit margin but they gain a huge new market and outlet for the players and effectively assure themselves they won't have to compete with HP all at the same time... among other things.

It's a win-win for both sides.

Best,

-K

uhhh... compete with HP... HP hardly makes anything worth buying... you really think they could actually make a player that would stand a chance against the ipod where samsung, rio, sandisk, creative and sony have failed? If they would have entered the mp3 market if not for this deal id wish apple didnt make the deal, just to see what PoS HP makes, i already get a good laugh out of the Dell Jokebox, but that was always meant to be a joke -- huh? oh its jukebox? hmm...

[melgross]

Originally posted by mike12309
uhhh... compete with HP... HP hardly makes anything worth buying... you really think they could actually make a player that would stand a chance against the ipod where samsung, rio, sandisk, creative and sony have failed? If they would have entered the mp3 market if not for this deal id wish apple didnt make the deal, just to see what PoS HP makes, i already get a good laugh out of the Dell Jokebox, but that was always meant to be a joke -- huh? oh its jukebox? hmm...

Very good sarcasm

But Hp makes the best Pocket Pc's, by far the most popular.

Before you say how much you hate them, I'm telling you not to bother because it doesn't matter. Hp is good at that kind of thing. I've already made my feelings known about what Hp has thought about marketsharewise, and why they didn't do it. That still stands. They didn't want to compete either. They've stated that publicly so let's get off it.

[mike12309]

Originally posted by melgross
Very good sarcasm

But Hp makes the best Pocket Pc's, by far the most popular.

Before you say how much you hate them, I'm telling you not to bother because it doesn't matter. Hp is good at that kind of thing. I've already made my feelings known about what Hp has thought about marketsharewise, and why they didn't do it. That still stands. They didn't want to compete either. They've stated that publicly so let's get off it.

pocket pc? thats *so* 2004.

[melgross]

Originally posted by mike12309
pocket pc? thats *so* 2004.

Yeah, but most people still think of them that way.

[BenRoethig]

Originally posted by mike12309
uhhh... compete with HP... HP hardly makes anything worth buying...

Yet a lot of people do.

[mike12309]

Originally posted by BenRoethig
Yet a lot of people do.

thats not my fault that people do dumb things. if people want to buy an HP ipod from walmart rather than an apple store or target so be it -- it means that they are giving up the ability to bring it for immediate service from the growing apple retail stores in favor of phone support from HP located right around the corner in New Delhi. (i refer to the fact that apple stores wont service HP ipods)

Seems silly to me. but considering the first question i get when selling ipods is: "will this work on a regular computer" or "will this work on my blazing fast new dell?" (i figure out a minute later this dell is 3 years old and suffering from a number of problems) im not surprised. People do stuff, most of it is irrational, the rest of the stuff is a fluke.

[melgross]

Originally posted by mike12309
thats not my fault that people do dumb things. if people want to buy an HP ipod from walmart rather than an apple store or target so be it -- it means that they are giving up the ability to bring it for immediate service from the growing apple retail stores in favor of phone support from HP located right around the corner in New Delhi. (i refer to the fact that apple stores wont service HP ipods)

Seems silly to me. but considering the first question i get when selling ipods is: "will this work on a regular computer" or "will this work on my blazing fast new dell?" (i figure out a minute later this dell is 3 years old and suffering from a number of problems) im not surprised. People do stuff, most of it is irrational, the rest of the stuff is a fluke.

Except that there are very few Apple stores around. Most of the country, not to mention outside of the country don't have the benefit of going to Apple to buy these. Buy from Apple's web site and you still can't take it in. so what can most people do?

Are you saying that Apple should forgo a large percentage of sales and limit them to the Apple stores because they give "immediate service"? So Apple then has, what, one third of the possible sales that they have now?

How does this help anyone? I don't even understand what your last paragraph has to do with anything. So now Apple should only sell them to people with "blazing fast machines"?

What are you trying to say?

[macFanDave]

Originally posted by mike12309
uhhh... compete with HP... HP hardly makes anything worth buying...

They used to make the world's best calculators. RPN rules! I still use my HP-41CX that I bought in 1984. The company seems to have gone in many different directions, but when it catered to its nerdy niche of scientists and engineers, it had a devoted, loyal customer base.

I've heard some RPN vs. algebraic debates that were nearly as vitriolic about the Mac vs. Windows debates.

[melgross]

Originally posted by macFanDave
They used to make the world's best calculators. RPN rules! I still use my HP-41CX that I bought in 1984. The company seems to have gone in many different directions, but when it catered to its nerdy niche of scientists and engineers, it had a devoted, loyal customer base.

I've heard some RPN vs. algebraic debates that were nearly as vitriolic about the Mac vs. Windows debates.

Yes, I used to do speaker filters and crossovers with their programmable models. Remember them? They had those short cards that were pulled through the top of the machine? What were the model numbers? HP-45?

[mike12309]

Originally posted by melgross
Except that there are very few Apple stores around. Most of the country, not to mention outside of the country don't have the benefit of going to Apple to buy these. Buy from Apple's web site and you still can't take it in. so what can most people do?

Are you saying that Apple should forgo a large percentage of sales and limit them to the Apple stores because they give "immediate service"? So Apple then has, what, one third of the possible sales that they have now?

How does this help anyone? I don't even understand what your last paragraph has to do with anything. So now Apple should only sell them to people with "blazing fast machines"?

What are you trying to say?

wow... that made my head hurt...

1. over 100 applestores, 80% of the country is within an hour drive from an apple store... i dont know of any HP stores i could go to.

2. outside the country there arnt any HP stores either, and there arnt nearly as many HP ipods outside the US because most HP branded dealers are based and centered in the US. There arnt many apple retail stores, but there are plenty of apple resellers... how many HP resellers are there (who will honor the HP warranty) -- heres a solid educated guess, 0.

3. Im not saying apple shouldnt use Hp to sell ipods, works for them, im saying educated consumers would be wise to get an Apple one unless inconvient (with Apple ipods in BB and Target this seems unlikely). However anything to sell more ipods is a plus.

4. 1/3 of the possible sales... uhhh. WRONG. i wont even bother to explain why. I guess yeah 1/3 "possible sales" is 'possible', its a shame that "actual sales" which put HP brand at less than a tenth of total sales and shrinking.

5. my last paragraph had to do with customers being unedcated, thinking USB is UPS, thinking a $600, 5 year old dell is "blazing fast" because some guy at dell told them so. It is backing up why people dont make rational buying decisions, since most people dont understand technology.

[melgross]

Originally posted by mike12309
wow... that made my head hurt...

1. over 100 applestores, 80% of the country is within an hour drive from an apple store... i dont know of any HP stores i could go to.

2. outside the country there arnt any HP stores either, and there arnt nearly as many HP ipods outside the US because most HP branded dealers are based and centered in the US. There arnt many apple retail stores, but there are plenty of apple resellers... how many HP resellers are there (who will honor the HP warranty) -- heres a solid educated guess, 0.

3. Im not saying apple shouldnt use Hp to sell ipods, works for them, im saying educated consumers would be wise to get an Apple one unless inconvient (with Apple ipods in BB and Target this seems unlikely). However anything to sell more ipods is a plus.

4. 1/3 of the possible sales... uhhh. WRONG. i wont even bother to explain why. I guess yeah 1/3 "possible sales" is 'possible', its a shame that "actual sales" which put HP brand at less than a tenth of total sales and shrinking.

5. my last paragraph had to do with customers being unedcated, thinking USB is UPS, thinking a $600, 5 year old dell is "blazing fast" because some guy at dell told them so. It is backing up why people dont make rational buying decisions, since most people dont understand technology.

Let's take your points one at a time.

1. Most people won't drive an hour to buy most items, they want something closer. I also doubt the number. Even if Apple themselves supplied it. Perhaps in another year it may be true. Hp stores? Hp is sold in independent stores, just as many Apple products are. There are thousands of them here in the US, including chains.

2. There are almost no Apple stores outside of the US either. There are also thousands of Hp resellers though, despite the belief that you have that there aren't. Hp is a widely known and distributed brand internationally. Your "solid educated guess" is wrong here. And now you seem to think that Apple resellers are ok. Be consistant. If you don't like them in the US, then you shouldn't like them abroad.

3. I have no argument that buying one that is just Apple branded isn't a bad idea. But does it really matter? Apple is happy selling through Hp or they wouldn't be doing it. Jobs himself said that he was very happy to get Hp's vastly larger distribution system working for Apple.

4. By one third of the sales I didn't mean Hp's contribution alone, if that's what you thought. I meant that if Apple cut off those resellers that you were complaining about then they would be down to the web store and their brick and mortar stores. That plus the loss of Hp would result in much lower sales, possibly by as much as two thirds. Figures have shown that many of the sales are through resellers. Those sales, plus the word of mouth resulting from them, could easily result in those numbers. I had the numbers, but not right now.

5. Who makes rational decisions when buying luxury items? Something an iPod surely is? Most people don't know how a car, or a Tv works either, so what? Many of us would think that using Linux isn't rational either. But those who use it would beg to differ. Most Mac users haven't the faintest idea as to how their machine works, or whether it is fast or slow. As long as it does what it's supposed to do, it's fine. The same thing with that Dell.

[Gene Clean]

But those who use it would beg to differ.

I beg to differ.

[mike12309]

ok...

1. WITHIN an hour. in capital cities, an apple store is present. i guess you also ignored that i said they are in all BB and Targets where you can get APPLE IPODS. Yea HP is sold in indepedent stores, duh, the point was where can you go for HP support. As HP says call their new delhi support line. My point was there are no HP stores to go for on the spot tech support. Also Apple resellers act as apple tech centers... whens the last time a walmart was one of them?

2. firstly, i never said i dont like apple resellers. Secondly, i would bet that a smart reseller abroad would prefer to sell an ipod than HP printer model ____. So there are lots of resellers for apple, as well as Hp. However my point was again, that you can bring an ipod TO an apple reseller for support -- once again you cannot with a department store that sells HP's or Apple's for that matter.

3. are you disagreeing? is there a point here at all? it maybe larger (hps distrib.) but if it takes you an extra 10 minutes to get to an apple store or a BB if it means better non-indian tech line support, why not?

4. uhhh. sorry 1/3rd of ipod sales are not by Hp, not even close, even if you say it twice. ONCE AGAIN you are ignoring that without HP, they have a website, retail stores, Best Buy (largest electronics chain in the US if you havent heard), Target, Comp USA ETC!!!! They gain walmart and radioshack in the deal with HP, i defy you to find where there is a Radio Shack/Walmart and you dont have a BB, Target etc within 10 miles in the USA. Adding HP doesnt make the ipod more obtainable, if someone wants one, they dont have to look far. More present and possibly soothing macintosh related fears, but not increasing sales, or potential for sales or ANYTHING. Demand is the same, whether the ipod is in 8/10 stores or 10/10 and if someone wants one, they will have no trouble finding one. Most people find out about the ipod from friends sucess with them, they can ask them where they got it if they really have no idea. drop the 1/3rd thing, i dont like random arbitrary numbers.

5. Person X buys a dell, X's computer has countless problems, hard drive failure, viruses etc. X calls tech support and is put on hold for an hour, has to talk to someone they can hardly understand and after 2+ hours on the phone, the issue remains unresolved for weeks or is misdiagnosed. Person X gives up and decides to buy a new Dell to replace the bad one. This is a common scenario from my experience... i know with cars, when someone has a problem with... lets say a ford, they vow to never go back to ford again. People just dont seem to have that sense with technology. Prehaps this is something else, but regardless of the subject/topic people have no clue and are typically very incompetent with technology. Heres another example, i tell someone to install firefox to get around all the spyware they get, i explain its vital for security. I come back a week later, they have spyware again, and no firefox in sight. I ask why they didnt install it "oh i didnt feel like it" "i wasnt sure it was what i needed" "i was scared" ETC. Now if that same person went to ACE Autoparts and a mechanic told them "you need to put more antifreeze in or you need to watch this or that" you better be dam sure that person is going to do it! Maybe they feel the car is more important idk, but its like this with everything. alright im off on a tangent so its time to end this horrible horrible message.

[afalkner]

i defy you to find where there is a Radio Shack/Walmart and you dont have a BB, Target etc within 10 miles in the USA.

West Bend, WI (my hometown) has a Radio Shack and a Walmart....but no Best Buy or Target. The closest BB or Target is about 30 miles away in Milwaukee.

I agree with what you were saying, but you did defy me!

[FireEmblemPride]

I own an iPod hp 20GB 4th gen, because I went to Fry's and didn't realize HP even made iPods. That said, getting new earbuds is almost impossible because they don't give the same coverage as Apple does. Likewise, I had a dock break out on me, but thankfully I came to the Apple Store and they replaced it.

The benefits of the iPod hp far outweigh its flaws. WalMart is the biggest store (or corporation, I forget which) in the entire world. People like to shop there for their low prices, even though there might be shady business ethic going on. There are iPods to be sold under HP just through WalMart alone.

Costco also carries iPod hps. Another good source of sales.

HP Total Care isn't bad, but the Indian customer service reps tend to get this wrong quite a bit. Still...

I think it would be best if Apple handled telephone calls for iPod hps as well as their own. It IS still an Apple product, and I believe Apple still does the actual manufacturing of the unit. Warranty on the other hand should be handed to hp itself.

[melgross]

Originally posted by mike12309
ok...

1. WITHIN an hour. in capital cities, an apple store is present. i guess you also ignored that i said they are in all BB and Targets where you can get APPLE IPODS. Yea HP is sold in indepedent stores, duh, the point was where can you go for HP support. As HP says call their new delhi support line. My point was there are no HP stores to go for on the spot tech support. Also Apple resellers act as apple tech centers... whens the last time a walmart was one of them?

2. firstly, i never said i dont like apple resellers. Secondly, i would bet that a smart reseller abroad would prefer to sell an ipod than HP printer model ____. So there are lots of resellers for apple, as well as Hp. However my point was again, that you can bring an ipod TO an apple reseller for support -- once again you cannot with a department store that sells HP's or Apple's for that matter.

3. are you disagreeing? is there a point here at all? it maybe larger (hps distrib.) but if it takes you an extra 10 minutes to get to an apple store or a BB if it means better non-indian tech line support, why not?

4. uhhh. sorry 1/3rd of ipod sales are not by Hp, not even close, even if you say it twice. ONCE AGAIN you are ignoring that without HP, they have a website, retail stores, Best Buy (largest electronics chain in the US if you havent heard), Target, Comp USA ETC!!!! They gain walmart and radioshack in the deal with HP, i defy you to find where there is a Radio Shack/Walmart and you dont have a BB, Target etc within 10 miles in the USA. Adding HP doesnt make the ipod more obtainable, if someone wants one, they dont have to look far. More present and possibly soothing macintosh related fears, but not increasing sales, or potential for sales or ANYTHING. Demand is the same, whether the ipod is in 8/10 stores or 10/10 and if someone wants one, they will have no trouble finding one. Most people find out about the ipod from friends sucess with them, they can ask them where they got it if they really have no idea. drop the 1/3rd thing, i dont like random arbitrary numbers.

5. Person X buys a dell, X's computer has countless problems, hard drive failure, viruses etc. X calls tech support and is put on hold for an hour, has to talk to someone they can hardly understand and after 2+ hours on the phone, the issue remains unresolved for weeks or is misdiagnosed. Person X gives up and decides to buy a new Dell to replace the bad one. This is a common scenario from my experience... i know with cars, when someone has a problem with... lets say a ford, they vow to never go back to ford again. People just dont seem to have that sense with technology. Prehaps this is something else, but regardless of the subject/topic people have no clue and are typically very incompetent with technology. Heres another example, i tell someone to install firefox to get around all the spyware they get, i explain its vital for security. I come back a week later, they have spyware again, and no firefox in sight. I ask why they didnt install it "oh i didnt feel like it" "i wasnt sure it was what i needed" "i was scared" ETC. Now if that same person went to ACE Autoparts and a mechanic told them "you need to put more antifreeze in or you need to watch this or that" you better be dam sure that person is going to do it! Maybe they feel the car is more important idk, but its like this with everything. alright im off on a tangent so its time to end this horrible horrible message.

You're not paying attention to what I'm saying.

You said Apple stores. Stores that sell Apple products are not Apple stores. Where do you go for Apple support if you buy from a reseller?. It's the same. Best Buy and Target, for example do not act as tech centers for iPod sales. You may not have noticed but Apple and Walmart just signed a deal to sell iPods in all of their stores. So much for that.

The only resellers who have support are Apple COMPUTER resellers. If they don't offer Apple computers, they don't offer support. Apple has also moved some phone support to India.

It's hard to tell if there's much disagreement here because you are changing your argument slightly each time. I'm saying that Apple thinks it's wise to have Hp sell iPods, and so do I. That's it! Not everyone wants to look for an Apple store. Apples GOAL is to have a store within one hour of at least 80% of the population. But they aren't close to that now. Even here in NYC where we have a great store in SoHo (where we hold our MetroMac user group meetings), most iPod sales are from resellers who don't sell Mac's.

Again, I NEVER said that Hp sells 1/3 of the iPod volume. If you looked at my early post I said that Hp once sold 16% of all iPods, but that number is now down to possibly 3% (in a much expanded market.) Both Apple and Hp still think that it's worthwhile. That's what I said. When you said that people should buy iPods directly from Apple's stores, I demurred and said that 2/3rd's of iPod sales were not from direct Apple store (or site) sales, and that if Apple closed down that distributorship, they would lose 2/3rd's of their sales. I then included Hp's sales in that as you were saying that one should buy only an Apple iPod and not an "Apple iPod by Hp" as Hp brands them.

As you don't work for Dell (or you would not be selling iPods, you can't speak for what happens there. While Apple has garnered the best service awards and highest reliability awards as well, Dell always comes a close second. Virus protection is the responsibility of the owner of the computer, not the manufacturer. You should be blaming MS for that as it's the OS not the hardware that's at fault. I run Norton's on my Mac's to be polite to my PC using friends and colleagues, not because I need it (so far). Even sales people at the Apple stores give out bad advice at times.

Nothing is perfect.

[melgross]

Originally posted by FireEmblemPride
I own an iPod hp 20GB 4th gen, because I went to Fry's and didn't realize HP even made iPods. That said, getting new earbuds is almost impossible because they don't give the same coverage as Apple does. Likewise, I had a dock break out on me, but thankfully I came to the Apple Store and they replaced it.

The benefits of the iPod hp far outweigh its flaws. WalMart is the biggest store (or corporation, I forget which) in the entire world. People like to shop there for their low prices, even though there might be shady business ethic going on. There are iPods to be sold under HP just through WalMart alone.

Costco also carries iPod hps. Another good source of sales.

HP Total Care isn't bad, but the Indian customer service reps tend to get this wrong quite a bit. Still...

I think it would be best if Apple handled telephone calls for iPod hps as well as their own. It IS still an Apple product, and I believe Apple still does the actual manufacturing of the unit. Warranty on the other hand should be handed to hp itself.

It is TOTALLY an Apple product. Anything that works on one will work on the other.

[Nautical]

Originally posted by Kasper
Nothing cept the engraving on the metal plate in the back of the players.

It gives HP a music player (the best and most popular) to sell and make $ of off without having to invest R&D.

For Apple, they have to share the profit margin but they gain a huge new market and outlet for the players and effectively assure themselves they won't have to compete with HP all at the same time... among other things.

It's a win-win for both sides.

Not to mention the fact that Apple gets iTunes and QuickTime pre-installed on every shipping HP-box.

[melgross]

Originally posted by Nautical
Not to mention the fact that Apple gets iTunes and QuickTime pre-installed on every shipping HP-box.

Yes, and if they could convince Dell to discontinue their player and do the same thing (assuming that the deal with Hp would permit it) it would be even better. Dell can't be selling very many of those. When they had iPods in their catalog, they sold very well. It was what convinced Dell to put their own player out.

If both Dell and Hp offered them, and had iTunes installed, then the other manufacturers would feel as though they had to follow suit. Lenovo, Gateway, Toshiba, etc.

Then it WOULD be a monopoly. If Apple gets into the phone area with Moto and Cingular with a heavily successful product line, then the other carriers would be forced to follow. That's the way it works. Many of us with cells are in one carriers grip because we like the phone they offer. If people migrated to Cingular because of an iTunes phone, that would make Verison, T-Mobile, and Sprint nervous.

Of course the music companies would be the most nervous of all.

It would become very interesting indeed.

[MacCrazy]

Originally posted by Kasper
Nothing cept the engraving on the metal plate in the back of the players.

It gives HP a music player (the best and most popular) to sell and make $ of off without having to invest R&D.

For Apple, they have to share the profit margin but they gain a huge new market and outlet for the players and effectively assure themselves they won't have to compete with HP all at the same time... among other things.

It's a win-win for both sides.

Best,

-K

Also iTunes is put on every HP computer - now that's an incentive!

[Project2501]

Originally posted by melgross
If Apple gets into the phone area with Moto and Cingular with a heavily successful product line, then the other carriers would be forced to follow. That's the way it works. Many of us with cells are in one carriers grip because we like the phone they offer. If people migrated to Cingular because of an iTunes phone, that would make Verison, T-Mobile, and Sprint nervous.

Of course the music companies would be the most nervous of all.

It would become very interesting indeed.

Totally out of subject, just wondering why do you people really do that? I mean restrict yourselves to the phonemodels served by operator? Wouldn't it be easier to buy just the model you wanted? No extra "rent" pays to the company, and no shitty phones. Ok I'm from Finland(Nokia) so so it's hard to understand because we don't have such system.

[melgross]

Originally posted by Project2501
Totally out of subject, just wondering why do you people really do that? I mean restrict yourselves to the phonemodels served by operator? Wouldn't it be easier to buy just the model you wanted? No extra "rent" pays to the company, and no shitty phones. Ok I'm from Finland(Nokia) so so it's hard to understand because we don't have such system.

I don't know how you do it there so I can't comment on which way is better. Over here, each company offers it's own phone selection, which might be extensive-possibly 20 or more phones. Most carriers will offer some of the same phones. A number of phones are exclusive to one or more carriers. You can also buy a phone from a phone store or a store (or chain) that also offers phones. Some of those phones can be programmed for more than one carrier.

But we have CDMA and GSM and Nextel's service, the name of which escapes me, but will be merged with Sprints CDMA at some point, as they recently bought them.

So most phones come as GSM, or as CDMA, etc. Some models are available in either one. It's a bit complex. The governments over in Europe have much more control over what standards companies use. The FCC over here is mandated only to ensure that the airwaves remain open. They are not allowed to mandate which system companies use in their phones, unless that would make the systems unoperable between them.

The other situation is that cell was big time here before it was by you. Because of that, competing standards arose as companies were experimenting over which system might be better. The EU, coming a bit later, decided to use only one system. They didn't want to use what had become more popular over here-CDMA, and they chose GSM. Also GSM has a few advantages.

However, if 3G ever does get off the ground in a big way, it will change back as it is again base upon CDMA.

Does that make it better or worse for you?

[Project2501]

Yes, thanks! Here in Finland telecompanies have been allowed to do bundle sale for only like a year now, and still allmost no one buys their telephones that way, so that is why I asked. I know bundled sales are common in other european countries also... In Finland there is nowadys only GSM cellphones, but we started in 1971's with ARP (totally finnish standard) then we went to NMT(Sweden, Norway and Finland) around 1982, so cell phones have been quite a while in Finland. In year 1996 GSM network reached around 80% from potential customers and today network reaches around 99% from whole country, Yes I know very small country, but I find it quite amusing that in these forums someone complains that they cant get carrier in 5 boroughs... Last word, this conversation really doesn't belong to this forum so lets end it here.

[AquaMac]

Originally posted by syno
why does HP sell apple iPods, and whats the diffrence?

I read somewhere that the HP warranty was better. Apple 90 days vs. HP 1 year.

[MacCrazy]

Originally posted by AquaMac
I read somewhere that the HP warranty was better. Apple 90 days vs. HP 1 year.

All Apple warranties are 1 year - it was Apple who switched the industry trend from 90 days.

[melgross]

Originally posted by Project2501
Last word, this conversation really doesn't belong to this forum so lets end it here.

Depends on the moderator.

[CosmoNut]

Originally posted by AquaMac
I read somewhere that the HP warranty was better. Apple 90 days vs. HP 1 year.

HP's phone support is 1 year where Apple's is only 90 days.

[Alexander the Great]

iPod HP is not supported on Mac and requires it to be reformatted to work for Mac. Some Wal-Marts carry both. I pushed iPods at Wal-Mart and we were one of the first Wal-Marts to get them. Right before I transferred to another store, we got in lots of iPods. The store I'm at now has pink and silver iPod minis and we've had the iPod shuffle. We carry both HP and Apple iPod minis in silver.

Alexander the Great

P.S. Yes, yes, I know... I work at Wal-Mart, there's no need to poke fun. Sometimes we need to do what's not enjoyable for a time because life's just that way.