Apple introduces Power Mac G5 Quad & Power Mac G5 Dual

[AppleInsider]

Apple on Wednesday unveiled its new Power Mac G5 desktop line featuring the Power Mac G5 Quad, providing quad-core processing with two 2.5 GHz dual-core PowerPC G5 processors.

All Power Mac G5 models now feature dual-core processors, a new PCI Express architecture and higher performance graphics options including NVIDIA's Quadro FX 4500, bringing the industry standard for workstation graphics to the Mac.

"The Power Mac G5 Quad delivers the workstation performance our creative and scientific customers demand," said Philip Schiller, Apple's senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing. "With quad-core processing, a new PCI Express architecture, and the fastest workstation card from NVIDIA, the new Power Mac G5 Quad is the most powerful system we've ever made."

With two 2.5 GHz dual-core processors, each with 1MB of L2 cache, the Power Mac G5 Quad delivers breakthrough performance on applications used extensively by creative professionals and scientists. For example:

Final Cut Pro 5 encodes SD video content up to 60 percent faster on the new Power Mac G5 Quad when compared with the Dual Processor 2.7 GHz Power Mac G5;
Adobe Photoshop runs a series of 45 commonly used filters and actions 43 percent faster on the new Power Mac G5 Quad when compared with the Dual Processor 2.7 GHz Power Mac G5;
Adobe After Effects renders video effects up to 69 percent faster on the new Power Mac G5 Quad when compared with the Dual Processor 2.7 GHz Power Mac G5;
LightWave 3D renders animation up to 59 percent faster on the Power Mac G5 Quad when compared with the Dual Processor 2.7 GHz Power Mac G5; and
The scientific benchmark Bioinformatics Benchmark System (BBS version 3) completes a comparison of genomic sequences up to 39 percent faster on the Power Mac G5 Quad when compared with the Dual Processor 2.7 GHz Power Mac G5.

The Power Mac G5 line offers expansion with industry standard PCI Express architecture, providing four expansion slots to support high-performance video and audio devices and multiple standard graphics cards to drive an array of up to eight displays.

The Power Mac G5 delivers up to 16GB of 533 MHz DDR2 SDRAM and now features two Gigabit Ethernet ports -- ideal for customers working in an Xsan environment.

Providing industry-leading connectivity and high-performance I/O, every Power Mac G5 also includes one FireWire 800 port, two FireWire 400 ports, four USB 2.0 ports, two USB 1.1 ports, optical and digital audio input and output, and built-in support for AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0+EDR. The new Power Mac G5 line also includes Apple's next generation mouse, Mighty Mouse, featuring up to four programmable buttons and an ingenious Scroll Ball that lets users scroll in any direction -- vertically, horizontally and even diagonally.

The new Power Mac G5 comes standard with either the NVIDIA GeForce 6600 LE with 128MB of video memory or the NVIDIA GeForce 6660 with 256MB of video memory, both provide support for dual-displays and Apple's breakthrough 30-inch Cinema HD Display, now priced at $2,499. The NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT with 256MB of video memory and the NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 with 512MB of video memory are both available as build-to-order options. The Quadro FX 4500 is ideal for demanding animation, special effects and scientific visualization applications such as Alias' Maya and DeLano Research's PyMol. The Quadro FX 4500 can drive up to two 30-inch Apple Cinema HD Displays and includes a stereo 3D port to connect goggles for stereo-in-a-window applications.

Pricing & Availability

The 2.0 GHz and 2.3 GHz Power Mac G5 Dual are available now and the 2.5 GHz Power Mac G5 Quad will be available in early November through the Apple Store, Apple's retail stores and Apple Authorized Resellers.

The Power Mac G5 Dual, with a suggested retail price of $1,999 (US), includes:

dual-core 2.0GHz PowerPC G5 processor;
512MB of 533 MHz DDR2 SDRAM expandable up to 16GB;
160GB Serial ATA hard drive running at 7200 rpm;
NVIDIA GeForce 6600 LE with 128MB of GDDR SDRAM
three open PCI Express expansion slots: two 4-lane slots and one 8-lane slot;
dual Gigabit Ethernet ports;
16x SuperDrive(TM) with double-layer support (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW); and
ships with Mighty Mouse and Apple Keyboard.

The Power Mac G5 Dual, with a suggested retail price of $2,499 (US), includes:

dual-core 2.3 GHz PowerPC G5 processor;
512MB of 533 MHz DDR2 SDRAM expandable up to 16GB;
250GB Serial ATA hard drive running at 7200 rpm;
NVIDIA GeForce 6600 with 256MB of GDDR SDRAM
three open PCI Express expansion slots: two 4-lane slots and one 8-lane slot;
dual Gigabit Ethernet ports;
16x SuperDrive with double-layer support (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW); and
ships with Mighty Mouse and Apple Keyboard.

The Power Mac G5 Quad, with a suggested retail price of $3,299 (US), includes:

two dual-core 2.5GHz PowerPC G5 processors;
512MB of 533 MHz DDR2 SDRAM expandable up to 16GB;
250GB Serial ATA hard drive running at 7200 rpm;
NVIDIA GeForce 6600 with 256MB of GDDR SDRAM
three open PCI Express expansion slots: two 4-lane slots and one 8-lane slot;
dual Gigabit Ethernet ports;
16x SuperDrive with double-layer support (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW); and
ships with Mighty Mouse and Apple Keyboard.

Build-to-order options include up to 16GB of NECC or ECC DDR2 SDRAM, up to two 500 GB Serial ATA hard drives running at 7200 rpm, NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT with 256MB of GDDR3 SDRAM, NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500 graphics card with 512MB of GDDR3 SDRAM, AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth module, Apple Wireless Keyboard and Apple Wireless Mouse, Xserve RAID and Apple Fibre Channel PCI Express Card.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[melgross]

This is pretty much what we expected.

The only surprise is the Quattro 4500. The odd thing is that the site says that the 7800 is available, but when you go to graphics support, it isn't there.

I'm happy that the 30" is $500 lower.

The pricing is good for the quad, but I would have hoped the others would have been $100 or so lower.

After Apple has had the quad out for a month or so, say January, I'll order it. Possibly ATI will have cards as well.

[KidRed]

I won't not assume that the current releases would be slower then the ones they replace, but what does a single 2.3 dual-core compare to? A dual 2.3? A dual 2.5?

[yasashiku]

Remember..

DDR2 and 1MB L2 cache are big improvements, but two core's now have to share a single frontside bus. This will probably only degrade performance with large amounts of RAM.

The Quad uses a radiator with liquid cooling. Anyone know if the 2.3's are air-cooled?

The heatsinks of these high-end cards takes up at least one extra PCI-E slot.

Goodbye PCI, hello Might Mouse!

[krisneph]

Do you guys have an Idea of how much the 7800 gt will be?

I tried to configure a G% with but it's not available yet. How do you guys think the 6600 will perform with Motion. Now I just need to decide on a monitor even with the educational discount the 20 in Cinemema Display is 699.


I'm excited I least I didn't get one of the old AGP G5's, or I can now get them cheapper.

[nagromme]

PowerPC's final months are looking pretty nice!

Don't forget that the OS itself has ways to make use of multiple CPUs even with apps that don't have built-in support. Like devoting one CPU entirely to the app, while the OS and all other processes run on the other cores.

I like that the wireless antenna is now a permanent strip down the back--no more little attachments.

Now pony up the cash and you can connect EIGHT 23" Cinema Displays to one Mac! Or, if I'm not mistaken, four 23" AND four 30!"

Put the four 30" in Portrait mode side-by-side. On each end of the row, put a stack of two 23" in Landscape mode.... Bingo! 10,240 by 2,560 9-foot-wide display! 25.6 megapixels of workspace!

[imiloa]

Originally posted by KidRed
I won't not assume that the current releases would be slower then the ones they replace, but what does a single 2.3 dual-core compare to? A dual 2.3? A dual 2.5?

Given that the 2.5 Quad is only 40-70% faster than the old 2.7 Dual, and assuming apple pushed the test limits for their marketing performance numbers, it seems likely a 970MP is max 75% faster than a single 970 at same clock speed.

Plus, I assume one 970MP costs a fair bit less than a single 970. So it seems Apple's margins on the $2500 model just went up, while raw power decreased?

Note that the 1MB L2 boost is inherently included in the 40-70% quad/dual Apple marketing numbers. Am I missing something?

[melgross]

Originally posted by yasashiku
Remember..

DDR2 and 1MB L2 cache are big improvements, but two core's now have to share a single frontside bus. This will probably only degrade performance with large amounts of RAM.

The Quad uses a radiator with liquid cooling. Anyone know if the 2.3's are air-cooled?

The heatsinks of these high-end cards takes up at least one extra PCI-E slot.

Goodbye PCI, hello Might Mouse!

I'm pretty sure it's the same dual bus that Apple has has before. They are being coy however. They say four cores, and then say that each processor has its own memory bus.

As each core is a processor, that would one to think that there actually four memory bus's.

IBM took the easy way out her as each core is completely independent except for the I/O where they combine, or so it seems, I haven't checked. Maybe someone else has.

[Algol]

I am disappointed that the 6600 is worse than the 9800XT. I mean what is the point of PCIe when the cards don't even need it? Where is the 7800 and how much will it cost? Hopefully a reasonable upgrade from the standard card for a few hundred and not thousands like the quatro. I was going to upgrade but it seems I wont be able to use my AGP 9800XT in the PCIe slot and the 6600 isn't as good... and I'm not paying 1500 for the quatro. Oh well...

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/gra...s-pcie-07.html

I heard that dual cores are not as fast as individual duals. Is this true? How much difference will DDR2 really make? These PowerMacs seem like more show than actual performance in my opinion.

[bjewett]

Originally posted by Algol
Where is the 7800 and how much will it cost?

I called Apple. They said they originally had info on the 7800 (listed on their Powermac/graphics page, and as BTO in press releases) on the Apple store but then pulled it, apparently to rework the page. It should be out there soon.

I am a little concerned the speed comparisons are being made between a single dual-core 2.3 and a dual single-core 2.0 (not 2.3). I'm wondering what the real speed difference is for the midrange machine. Not that it matters - I'll be buying the 2.3 anyway, with PCI-e.

The dual frontside buses are only for the quad machines, unfortunately.

The high end quad is, sadly, too much for me. I have other things to do with that difference in cost ... particularly if I can get the 7800. Those other graphics options definitely need to make it onto the apple store pages.

Of course Apple has been a bit busy of late with new offerings, so some delay is understandable.

[KidRed]

Originally posted by bjewett
I called Apple. They said they originally had info on the 7800 (listed on their Powermac/graphics page, and as BTO in press releases) on the Apple store but then pulled it, apparently to rework the page. It should be out there soon.

I am a little concerned the speed comparisons are being made between a single dual-core 2.3 and a dual single-core 2.0 (not 2.3). I'm wondering what the real speed difference is for the midrange machine. Not that it matters - I'll be buying the 2.3 anyway, with PCI-e.

The dual frontside buses are only for the quad machines, unfortunately.

The high end quad is, sadly, too much for me. I have other things to do with that difference in cost ... particularly if I can get the 7800. Those other graphics options definitely need to make it onto the apple store pages.

Of course Apple has been a bit busy of late with new offerings, so some delay is understandable.

What's the 7800? Damn it I just order the 2.3 with the 6600!! How much better is the 7800 and how much more does it cost? Wondering if I should try and get my order changed?

[AquaMac]

Originally posted by KidRed
Wondering if I should try and get my order changed?

Go for it. Better to wait a little and be happy.

Thank god, no more whining about, "Steve said there were still cool G5's to come. But I don't see them." We got em' now so smoke them if you can.
PCI-e! Oh so happy. I was hopeing for quad 2.3 too but its ok. The G5 ends on a bang.

[KidRed]

How much more is the 7800? It seems it's just a tad down from the quad which is $1500. So, I would guess the 7800 could be $750 or more when added to your order? Anyone know?

[melgross]

Originally posted by Algol
I am disappointed that the 6600 is worse than the 9800XT. I mean what is the point of PCIe when the cards don't even need it? Where is the 7800 and how much will it cost? Hopefully a reasonable upgrade from the standard card for a few hundred and not thousands like the quatro. I was going to upgrade but it seems I wont be able to use my AGP 9800XT in the PCIe slot and the 6600 isn't as good... and I'm not paying 1500 for the quatro. Oh well...

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/gra...s-pcie-07.html

I heard that dual cores are not as fast as individual duals. Is this true? How much difference will DDR2 really make? These PowerMacs seem like more show than actual performance in my opinion.

Let me explain a little about what Apple is thinking when they decide which boards to supply.

First of all Apple's machines are expensive comapred to PC cost/performance. Adding a more expensive to the base would raise the price wven further,

Second, you have to know the mix of customers for these pro machines.

The users doing 2D such as photo, graphics, audio, and publishing are perfectly served by the boards supplied. None need a fast 3D board. Most Powermacs are sold to this customer base. Putting a more expensive board in would just cause them to feel as though they were paying for something they don't need.

The second and third groups are the gamers, for which a fast 3D board is something they will pay for, and have the option to, and the 3D pro's who, untli now, had only game boards to select from. A poor chioce for them.

Should they have supplied the 6600GT instead? Maybe, but it could have been out of their price target.

[Powerdoc]

Just ordered the dual 2,3 (with 2 GB of ram).
Just discovered the 7800 option (not on the Apple store). Well I will wait for the 8800 ...

[melgross]

Originally posted by KidRed
How much more is the 7800? It seems it's just a tad down from the quad which is $1500. So, I would guess the 7800 could be $750 or more when added to your order? Anyone know?

Aren't you aware of the pricing of these boards?

The 7800 should be between $300 and $450 more than the standard offering, depending on what they have the 6600LE and standard 6600 down for.

[melgross]

Originally posted by Powerdoc
Just ordered the dual 2,3 (with 2 GB of ram).
Just discovered the 7800 option (not on the Apple store). Well I will wait for the 8800 ...

Probably only until June. Both ATI and NVidia are slated to deliver the new generation then.

[philby]

Originally posted by AquaMac
I was hopeing for quad 2.3 too but its ok. The G5 ends on a bang.

What you said: it's OK. But it's not a bang by far.
Imagine how nice it would have been had Apple introduced an all-quad lineup, 1.5, 2 and 2.5GHz. These machines would actually have been noticeably faster than the previous generation, and might have been tempting for folks on the dark side.

But of course Apple greediness prevailed and their holy margin left untouched.

Bah. I'm getting tired of this super-clever marketing whizbangery.

[bjewett]

1 - I wonder if someone can't call and change their order to use a 7800 GT graphics card instead of the 6600. It is more $$ in Apple's pockets. I'd think they would go for that.

2 - from reviews I saw, the 7800 GT *could* be significantly faster - or not much faster - than the 6600. In some cases it is a huge difference. The prices I saw were around $450, and since you get that INSTEAD of the 6600, I don't see how this board should cost you an arm and a leg. Perhaps a hand...

3 - Are we splitting hairs? Tech page at apple says 1.15 GHz frontside bus, period, for the 2.3: http://www.apple.com/powermac/specs.html
Apple store page says 1.15 per processor. I assume they mean per chip ...

4 - Anyone know if most users need ECC memory? I have heard gripes about large Apple cluster systems because they did Not have ECC, so I think it is good to have as an option. For our typical single-desktop user ... is this a good idea?

Waiting for those independent tests (Macworld?) to roll in.

[melgross]

Originally posted by philby
What you said: it's OK. But it's not a bang by far.
Imagine how nice it would have been had Apple introduced an all-quad lineup, 1.5, 2 and 2.5GHz. These machines would actually have been noticeably faster than the previous generation, and might have been tempting for folks on the dark side.

But of course Apple greediness prevailed and their holy margin left untouched.

Bah. I'm getting tired of this super-clever marketing whizbangery.

We wouldn't have gotten anything out of quad 1.5's. They would have been far too slow on most work.

But quad 2's and a single dual dual 2. The qual would have no advantage over the single for most things, but for some programs it would be better.

People should go to Apple's site to see the speed comparison between various Apple machines.

The low end machines are not that much faster, in some cases that a dual 1.43 G4 machine. They don't even begin to compare them to the dual G5's except in a couple of cases.

[melgross]

Originally posted by bjewett
1 - I wonder if someone can't call and change their order to use a 7800 GT graphics card instead of the 6600. It is more $$ in Apple's pockets. I'd think they would go for that.

2 - from reviews I saw, the 7800 GT *could* be significantly faster - or not much faster - than the 6600. In some cases it is a huge difference. The prices I saw were around $450, and since you get that INSTEAD of the 6600, I don't see how this board should cost you an arm and a leg. Perhaps a hand...

3 - Are we splitting hairs? Tech page at apple says 1.15 GHz frontside bus, period, for the 2.3: http://www.apple.com/powermac/specs.html
Apple store page says 1.15 per processor. I assume they mean per chip ...

4 - Anyone know if most users need ECC memory? I have heard gripes about large Apple cluster systems because they did Not have ECC, so I think it is good to have as an option. For our typical single-desktop user ... is this a good idea?

Waiting for those independent tests (Macworld?) to roll in.

1. Apple will let you change your order unless it's already being readied for shipment. But your order then gets put at the end of the line.

2. The 7800 GT *is* much faster. There is no contest. The 660 series is a middling series of boards made to optimize cost/performance. The 7800 series is made to optimize performance.

3. Yes, I brought that up before. I'm sure they mean chip.

4. No, you don't. It's only for work where any memory error could cause a serious error in calculation. Nothing any of us do will be adversely affected by "soft" errors. in a significant way.

[PB]

Originally posted by Algol
I mean what is the point of PCIe when the cards don't even need it?

I don't know exactly how Quartz2D Extreme works. If it needs data from the GPU back to the CPU, then the bidirectional PCIe bus would make a big difference in graphics performance.

[melgross]

Originally posted by PB
I don't know exactly how Quartz2D Extreme works. If it needs data from the GPU back to the CPU, then the bidirectional PCIe bus would make a big difference in graphics performance.

The other thing, of course, is that PCI X is obsolete. Apple is just about the only one left using it. And even they aren't using it anymore.

There may be low end cards supplied with the machine, but this isn't an iMac, you don't have to buy those cards. Get the 7800 when they list it instead. You can wait the short time.

More powerful cards will never work on the AGP bus of the old PM. It only supplies 2Gbs to the card. Express supplies 4Gbs.

Look at the old G4's the 4x AGP bus had only 1Gbs, and the 2x had 500Mbs.

Newer gens of cards can't work on a bus that doesn't have the bandwidth, or they will be starved. Same thing happens if the cpu can't fill the video bus. So a balance is needed.

There won't be other cards available either, such as SATA cards.

[Lemon Bon Bon]

Should they have supplied the 6600GT instead? Maybe, but it could have been out of their price target.

Agreed.

And nope.

The 6600 GT is about £100. For Apple? Cheaper. And it about twice as fast as the suck egg 6600 vanilla.

Same with x600 on iMac. The x600 is an improvement. But they could have reached for the x800.

Apple seem to want to suck hard on GPUs. On the PowerMacs why do they suck hard with lame gpus on flagship machines? It's pathetic.

Really, for the price?

Still, as Melgross says, it's common knowledge that the 7800 GT kicks the snot out of a 6600. For 3d and games? 7800GT.

It gives nigh on the performance of the Quadro listed on Apple's sights. Seems to push out more vertices...too...

The Quad PowerMac gives 60% mark up in Lightwave benches.

That's the biggest leap since Apple went from G4 to G5.

It's time for Lemon Bon Bon to buy. I'll be getting one of these and sticking 4 to 8 gigs of ram in there.

I won't order until the 7800Gt is listed. Hopefully, I'll have mine by X-mas!

Ah, what the heck, I'll get a 30 inch LCD as well....at that price...too tempting...

In the light of the original Dual G5 2 gig surprise a few years back? Is this Quad awesome? It should have been dual dual 3 gig. But who cares. It's about as good as we're going to get. We got 4 cpus. A quadro. PCI Express. 16 gig ram support. a terrabyte HD capac. I mean...what more can you ask for really? It's a hundred or so more. Big deal.

The wait is over.

Lemon Bon Bon

PS. Onlooker can stop whining now. He has his pro-card. Congrats Apple...wut took yer so long?

[Elderloc]

I'm thinking of upgrading my Dual 2.5, 2x250,6 gig, airport,bluetooth, 6800 Ultra machine. The quad looks to be awesome however I believe the 7800 to be better for Motion then the Quad card. What does everyone else think?

[JeffDM]

Originally posted by bjewett

4 - Anyone know if most users need ECC memory? I have heard gripes about large Apple cluster systems because they did Not have ECC, so I think it is good to have as an option. For our typical single-desktop user ... is this a good idea?

It's not really necessary, but I think it helps. With the computers I've owned, the ones with ECC RAM have *never* had stability problems when running Windows 2000 or NT.

[melgross]

Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
Agreed.

And nope.

The 6600 GT is about £100. For Apple? Cheaper. And it about twice as fast as the suck egg 6600 vanilla.

Same with x600 on iMac. The x600 is an improvement. But they could have reached for the x800.

Apple seem to want to suck hard on GPUs. On the PowerMacs why do they suck hard with lame gpus on flagship machines? It's pathetic.

Really, for the price?

Still, as Melgross says, it's common knowledge that the 7800 GT kicks the snot out of a 6600. For 3d and games? 7800GT.

It gives nigh on the performance of the Quadro listed on Apple's sights. Seems to push out more vertices...too...

The Quad PowerMac gives 60% mark up in Lightwave benches.

That's the biggest leap since Apple went from G4 to G5.

It's time for Lemon Bon Bon to buy. I'll be getting one of these and sticking 4 to 8 gigs of ram in there.

I won't order until the 7800Gt is listed. Hopefully, I'll have mine by X-mas!

Ah, what the heck, I'll get a 30 inch LCD as well....at that price...too tempting...

In the light of the original Dual G5 2 gig surprise a few years back? Is this Quad awesome? It should have been dual dual 3 gig. But who cares. It's about as good as we're going to get. We got 4 cpus. A quadro. PCI Express. 16 gig ram support. a terrabyte HD capac. I mean...what more can you ask for really? It's a hundred or so more. Big deal.

The wait is over.

Lemon Bon Bon

PS. Onlooker can stop whining now. He has his pro-card. Congrats Apple...wut took yer so long?

Vertices and triangles are very different beasts. A vertice is a much more easily calculated element. A triangle which a pro graphics cards are rated on take much more computing power.

Also game cards such as the 7800 don't do well at all in a pro app. A $600 game card will always lose to a $600 pro card in a pro 3D app.

[noirdesir]

Originally posted by imiloa
Given that the 2.5 Quad is only 40-70% faster than the old 2.7 Dual, and assuming apple pushed the test limits for their marketing performance numbers, it seems likely a 970MP is max 75% faster than a single 970 at same clock speed.

No, I think it means that the four processor (core) machine with 1MB of L2 cache under (probably) ideal conditions is about twice as fast a similiarly clocked dual processor machine (4*2.5 = 1.88*2*2.7, LinPack).

(Insert the performance claims by Apple for the other apps in this formula to see how effective they run on quad machines.)

[Lemon Bon Bon]

Vertices and triangles are very different beasts. A vertice is a much more easily calculated element. A triangle which a pro graphics cards are rated on take much more computing power.

I thought as much.

But they didn't show the 'triangle' count for the 7800GT.

There isn't a a pro card for the same price as a 7800GT on the Mac.

The Quadro costs £1100. Ouch.

Vs...I'm guessing, £300 for the 7800.

In the gaming bench? Not much in it. There wasn't a lightwave bench for the two cards. But I question if the Quadro is £800 faster/better. But it's nice to have a Pro card for 'triangle/Anti-aliasing' grunt/finesse.

Lemon Bon Bon

[neilw]

My beef is that they should have 2.3, 2.5, and dual 2.5 as the three models. I don't understand putting the large gap between 2.3 and dual 2.5...

[Algol]

Originally posted by melgross
Let me explain a little about what Apple is thinking when they decide which boards to supply.

First of all Apple's machines are expensive comapred to PC cost/performance. Adding a more expensive to the base would raise the price wven further,

Second, you have to know the mix of customers for these pro machines.

The users doing 2D such as photo, graphics, audio, and publishing are perfectly served by the boards supplied. None need a fast 3D board. Most Powermacs are sold to this customer base. Putting a more expensive board in would just cause them to feel as though they were paying for something they don't need.

The second and third groups are the gamers, for which a fast 3D board is something they will pay for, and have the option to, and the 3D pro's who, untli now, had only game boards to select from. A poor chioce for them.

Should they have supplied the 6600GT instead? Maybe, but it could have been out of their price target.

Dude you don't get my point. My point is that they don't supply anything instead. The 15000000 billion dollar card doesn't count. Why can't apple supply a descent card for 200 more or so? I don't need a 500 or 1000 or 1500 dollar GPU. However, there is notpoint in upgrading if I am going to get stuck with a card that is worse than the one I have, and a processor that may or may not be much faster. DDR2 really isn't a selling point for me.

[melgross]

Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
I thought as much.

But they didn't show the 'triangle' count for the 7800GT.

There isn't a a pro card for the same price as a 7800GT on the Mac.

The Quadro costs £1100. Ouch.

Vs...I'm guessing, £300 for the 7800.

In the gaming bench? Not much in it. There wasn't a lightwave bench for the two cards. But I question if the Quadro is £800 faster/better. But it's nice to have a Pro card for 'triangle/Anti-aliasing' grunt/finesse.

Lemon Bon Bon

For games, it's good, simply because it a top workstation card. But a $1,000 card would be bested by the 7800 or the ATI 1800.

[melgross]

Originally posted by Algol
Dude you don't get my point. My point is that they don't supply anything instead. The 15000000 billion dollar card doesn't count. Why can't apple supply a descent card for 200 more or so? I don't need a 500 or 1000 or 1500 dollar GPU. However, there is notpoint in upgrading if I am going to get stuck with a card that is worse than the one I have, and a processor that may or may not be much faster. DDR2 really isn't a selling point for me.

I get your point. Apple is supplying the 7800, which will go for a few hundred more. for some reason it isn't being shown in the store as yet, but they mention it several times on the site. You don't even need the 9800 if all you do is 2D. Those are the ones who will be happy with the 6600 series. I won't go from a 9800 to a card slightly better, I will go to the 7800 or equiv. Apple knows that.

Look, let's face it, Apple just doesn't sell enough PM's for board makers to rush in supporting it.

These machines won't be available for 3 or 4 weeks according to the store. Possibly by that time ATI will announce cards.

I don't see the point in worrying now. We've waited so long that we can wait a bit longer. I'm not buying the quad until January. Let Apple get the kinks out. This is a totally new design for them. By January we may very well see more cards from Apple as well as third parties. I can't imagine that ATI will stand aside.

[Jeff Leigh]

Love the markup on RAM. 16GB for $9500....that's funny. Quick price search found it for $3200. Do they really expect people to not check and just overpay by 200%?

[Algol]

Originally posted by melgross
I get your point. Apple is supplying the 7800, which will go for a few hundred more. for some reason it isn't being shown in the store as yet, but they mention it several times on the site. You don't even need the 9800 if all you do is 2D. Those are the ones who will be happy with the 6600 series. I won't go from a 9800 to a card slightly better, I will go to the 7800 or equiv. Apple knows that.

Look, let's face it, Apple just doesn't sell enough PM's for board makers to rush in supporting it.

These machines won't be available for 3 or 4 weeks according to the store. Possibly by that time ATI will announce cards.

I don't see the point in worrying now. We've waited so long that we can wait a bit longer. I'm not buying the quad until January. Let Apple get the kinks out. This is a totally new design for them. By January we may very well see more cards from Apple as well as third parties. I can't imagine that ATI will stand aside.

Well we'll see if it is just a few hundred more. I'm thinking it'll be 400 at least.

[geobe]

If the overall CPU capabilities have now been bumped up 60-90%, does it mean that iChat could possibly support more video chat windows? Would it be possible that Apple gave it enough juice to support at least 5 video windows now?

That would be true board room style conferencing.


Lets all vote for SJ to be the next person on the apprentice after Martha Stewart.

He would be awesome. If the rumors are true, he wouldn't have to change 1 single mgmt style.

[sunilraman]

Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
I thought as much.

But they didn't show the 'triangle' count for the 7800GT.
....

Lemon Bon Bon

nvidia 6600, 6800, 7800 series is predominantly for games not pro 3D creation. so no triangle count there. just vertices

[Booga]

Originally posted by geobe
If the overall CPU capabilities have now been bumped up 60-90%, does it mean that iChat could possibly support more video chat windows? Would it be possible that Apple gave it enough juice to support at least 5 video windows now?

On a dual-2.0GHz G5 on a cable modem, a 3 person conference (me and two other people) gets significantly "fuzzier". I don't think they really have the technology to do the existing 4 person that they offer today, let alone more.

[sunilraman]

Originally posted by KidRed
What's the 7800? Damn it I just order the 2.3 with the 6600!! How much better is the 7800 and how much more does it cost? Wondering if I should try and get my order changed?

DUDE, DO NOT GET THE 6600. i have a 6600GT, which is better than the 6600, which i bought a few months ago for us $170.

you want the 7800GT. note: which is not the same as 7800GTX but 7800GT i hear gives a nice balance of heat/power/performance/etc. and the 7800GT is an amazing fucking beast of a graphics card. if your after games and opengl performance, 7800GT. if you are actually doing a lot of pro 3d creation, then yeah get the quadro.

wait a bit, i'm sure apple will have the 7800gt available soonish. or just call them up and see what they can do with your order.

DO NOT GET THE 6600.

[Algol]

Originally posted by sunilraman
DUDE, DO NOT GET THE 6600. i have a 6600GT, which is better than the 6600, which i bought a few months ago for us $170.

you want the 7800GT. note: which is not the same as 7800GTX but 7800GT i hear gives a nice balance of heat/power/performance/etc. and the 7800GT is an amazing fucking beast of a graphics card. if your after games and opengl performance, 7800GT. if you are actually doing a lot of pro 3d creation, then yeah get the quadro.

wait a bit, i'm sure apple will have the 7800gt available soonish. or just call them up and see what they can do with your order.

DO NOT GET THE 6600.

/signed