Intel details upcoming processor generations

[hmurchison]

How would you like a .45nm chip with SMT and ondie memory controllers and integrated GPU?

Nehalem has its roots in the four-issue Core 2 Duo architecture, but the direction that it will take Intel is apparent in Gelsinger's insistence that, "we view Nehalem as the first true dynamically scalable microarchitecture." What Gelsinger means by this is that Nehalem is not only designed to take Intel up to eight cores on a single die, but those cores are meant to be mixed and matched with varied amounts of cache and different features in order to produce processors that are tailored to specific market segments.

The blockbuster revelation is that some Nehalem designs will sport an on-die memory controller and integrated graphics processor. Let me talk about the latter before I touch on the former.

A few questioners tried to get clarification from Gelsinger as to whether he meant that there would be a GPU integrated onto the actual die along with the general-purpose CPU cores. (Recall that AMD claims this CPU/GPU die-level integration for their Fusion project.) Gelsinger clarified that the GPU would be "in the socket" with the CPU, but wouldn't say more.

Welcome to Torrenza lite. This is fabulous news for those who love mobile computing and great news potentially for ?tv2

[Frank777]

I just read a press release on Macsurfer. When are these things supposed to be out?

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Frank777

I just read a press release on Macsurfer. When are these things supposed to be out?

Should be next year. Intel is rockin', they say they want to unveil a new core change every two years. That doesn't necessarily mean they are shrinking the die but the core will improve.

Next they're opening up a new foundry in China. I'm happy with this forward progress but quite honestly I am hoping that AMD does very well. Since AMD has become a force in microprocesor Intel has had to fight harder and drop prices faster. This is good for us all.

Imagine a 13.3 Macbook Pro with integrated GPU and ondie memory controller running Penryn. We'll likely see laptops with support for 8GB of RAM or more.

Looks like we had a lull in microprocessor design over the last few years but it's rebounding with alacrity.

[SpamSandwich]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Should be next year. Intel is rockin', they say they want to unveil a new core change every two years. That doesn't necessarily mean they are shrinking the die but the core will improve.

Next they're opening up a new foundry in China. I'm happy with this forward progress but quite honestly I am hoping that AMD does very well. Since AMD has become a force in microprocesor Intel has had to fight harder and drop prices faster. This is good for us all.

Imagine a 13.3 Macbook Pro with integrated GPU and ondie memory controller running Penryn. We'll likely see laptops with support for 8GB of RAM or more.

Looks like we had a lull in microprocessor design over the last few years but it's rebounding with alacrity.

Your wishes for AMD don't seem to be coming true...

Over the past year, Intel share’s have held steady, dipping to $18.94 from $19.34. Meanwhile AMD’s shares have fallen more than 60% to $13.47 from $35.33.

Just as well for me... I've owned INTC for some time. Hopefully it roars back with a vengeance.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

Your wishes for AMD don't seem to be coming true...

Ouch. AMD better get the K8L out fast. Intel is trying to sprint away.

http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archi...070328fact.htm

NEHALEM MICROARCHITECTURE

After Penryn and the 45nm Hi-k silicon technology introduction comes Intel's next-generation microarchitecture (Nehalem) slated for initial production in 2008. By continuing to innovate at this rapid cadence, Intel will deliver enormous performance and energy efficiency gains in years to come, adding more performance features and capabilities for new and improved applications. Here are some new initial disclosures around our Nehalem microarchitecture:

Dynamically scalable for leadership performance on demand with energy efficiency
Dynamically managed cores, threads, cache, interfaces and power
Leverages leading 4 instruction issue Intel® Core microarchitecture technology
Simultaneous multi-threading (similar to Intel® Hyper-threading technology) returns to enhance performance and energy efficiency
Innovative new Intel® SSE4 and ATA instruction set architecture additions
Superior multi-level shared cache leverages Intel® Smart Cache technology
Leadership system and memory bandwidth
Performance enhanced dynamic power management
Design scalable for optimal price/performance/energy efficiency in each market segment
New system architecture for next-generation Intel processors and platforms
Scalable performance: 1 to 16+ threads, 1 to 8+ cores, scalable cache sizes
Scalable and configurable system interconnects and integrated memory controllers
High performance integrated graphics engine for client

Oops I had that backwards. Penryn start manufacturing this year 2H and then Nehalem takes over next year. That does give AMD a bit of time to get out their Fusion product (CPU/GPU) and Torrenza.

[Joe_the_dragon]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

How would you like a .45nm chip with SMT and ondie memory controllers and integrated GPU?




Welcome to Torrenza lite. This is fabulous news for those who love mobile computing and great news potentially for ?tv2

It better have something better then FSB if intel when to put all of that in a cpu.

[Rolo]

I'm sure that MBPs over a year from now will be fabulous with Nehalem inside but I'll be really happy to get a Santa Rosa C2D MBP this spring.

[backtomac]

Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon

It better have something better then FSB if intel when to put all of that in a cpu.

You'll be happy to know that at least some Nehalem chips will have an on die memory controller. Some chips will support hyperthreading and 8 cores! Intel is going for AMDs throat.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon

It better have something better then FSB if intel when to put all of that in a cpu.

Have you heard of that new forensic show. CSI Israel?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_System_Interface

on System Interface (or “CSI“) is a processor interconnect standard being developed by Intel, as a competitor to HyperTransport. It will replace the front-side bus for Xeon and Itanium 2 platforms. It is expected to released in 2008 and will first be used by Intel's Nehalem and Tukwila.[citation needed]
Performance numbers for CSI are reported to be 6.4 GigaTransactions per second (GT/s) per direction

Intel aren't fools. They've got the FSB thing covered as does AMD with Hypertransport.

[MacSuperiority]

This Intel shit is crazy.

First I was gonna wait for the Santa Rosa platform to be intoduced into iMacs before I upgraded. Now I think I will wait for these new CPUs to be released. By that time Intel is going to have something else slick coming out in the near future that will make me second guess myself again. WHEN WILL IT END!!!!! AHHHHHAHAHAA.

[hmurchison]

As always Anandtech has one of the best previews in the biz.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...oc.aspx?i=2955

Man nehalem is looking good.

Virtualization improvements.

Originally Posted by Anandtech

0, the VMM must intercept that "SYSENTER" and emulate the normal execution. This is quite costly in performance terms.

Hardware assisted virtualization does not have that problem: both the OS and the VMM have their own ring 0. Despite this, Intel's HW assisted solutions didn't give any speed boost. It has not been discussed in detail, but Penryn speeds up virtual machine transition (entry/exit) times by 25% to 75%, and this requires no virtual machine software changes. This might be similar to AMD's nested page technology, although we don't have any clear details at present.

More L2 cache

Originally Posted by Anandtech

Last but not least, the dual core Penryn processors get a 6 MB shared cache and the quad versions get 12 MB cache. Both new designs will also come with a "higher degree of associativity". Considering the current designs are 16-way set associative, most likely the newer chips will feature a 24-way set associative L2 cache.

Performance compared to Conroe.

Originally Posted by Anandtech

Comparing a 3.2GHz Penryn (1.6GHz FSB) to a 3.0GHz Conroe (1.33GHz FSB), Intel has measured more than 20% increase in gaming performance (with no code changes). For video encoding applications, if SSE4 is utilized, the same Penryn vs. Conroe comparison can offer more than a 40% increase in performance.

Finally, Intel mentioned that in the server space, the fastest quad core Penryn available (>3GHz) vs. a 2.67GHz quad core Xeon resulted in a greater than 45% increase in performance in "bandwidth and FP intensive applications". It's incredibly vague (and oddly similar to AMD's claims of Barcelona vs. Xeon performance), but Pat mentioned that STREAM and certain benchmarks in SpecFP could be considered to be "bandwidth and FP intensive".

Threading in the cores

Originally Posted by Anandtech

Surprisingly, Intel gave away quite a few details about Nehalem. Although Nehalem is still based on the 4-issue Core architecture, it takes "multithreading" to a whole new level. First of all, Nehalem can contain up to eight cores per die. Combined with 2-way Simultaneous Multi-Threading (SMT or Hyper-Threading), you'll have the ability to execute up to 16 threads on one chip!

For Joe the Dragon

Originally Posted by Anandtech

Nehalem will no longer use a FSB but a serial point to point interconnect. Even more revolutionary is the fact that Nehalem will have an integrated memory controller (IMC) and that the number of serial interconnects is variable (Intel's version of "HyperTransport"). Another potentially groundbreaking move is that some Nehalem CPUs will have a GPU integrated (Intel's version of "Fusion"). With an integrated memory controller, new interconnect, and potentially integrated graphics, Nehalem will obviously require a new socket.

Man is OS X 10.6 Lion going to ROCK on this platform. Wow. Intel is impressing me.

[Sybaritic]

Originally Posted by MacSuperiority

This Intel shit is crazy.

First I was gonna wait for the Santa Rosa platform to be intoduced into iMacs before I upgraded. Now I think I will wait for these new CPUs to be released. By that time Intel is going to have something else slick coming out in the near future that will make me second guess myself again. WHEN WILL IT END!!!!! AHHHHHAHAHAA.

How true. Not to bring up old history, but I'm one of those who continues to eat crow over initially resisting the switch to Intel. It's too easy to have narrow vision.

[AppleInsider]

Intel Corp. said this week that it remains on track to begin producing its next-generation Penryn family of processors in the second half of this year, marking the next step in its "tick-tock" product rhythm of delivering a new process technology or entirely new microarchitecture every year.

The world's largest chipmaker said the new processors benefit from enhancements to the Intel Core microarchitecture and also Intel's industry-leading 45nm Hi-k process technology with its hafnium-based high-K + metal gate transistor design, which results in higher performance and more energy-efficient processors.

The Santa Clara-based firm said it holds more than 15 45nm Hi-k product designs in various stages of development, and will have two 45nm manufacturing fabs in production by the end of the year, with a total of four in production by the second half of 2008 that will deliver tens of millions of these processors.

Below are many of the details of the Penryn processor family and a glimpse into some of the key features of Intel's future generation of processors, codenamed Nehalem.

Penryn Family Microarchitecture Innovations
A Range of Products -- Six Penryn family processors, including dual and quad-core desktop processors and a dual core mobile processor are all under the Intel Core processor brand name as well as new dual and quad-core server processors under the Intel® Xeon® processor brand name. A processor for higher-end server multiprocessing systems is also under development. As previously noted, Intel already has a total of 15 45nm products scheduled.
Technical Marvel -- 45nm next-generation Intel® Core™2 quad-core processors will have 820 million transistors. Thanks to our high-k metal transistor invention, think of 820 million more power efficient light bulbs going on and off at light-speeds. The dual-core version has a die size of 107mm2, which is 25 percent smaller than Intel's current 65nm products - and quarter of the size of the average U.S. postage stamp - and operate at the same or lower power than Intel's current dual core processors.
Deep Power Down for Energy Savings, Improved Battery Life -- The mobile Penryn processor has a new advanced power management state called Deep Power Down Technology that significantly reduces the power of the processor during idle periods such that internal transistor power leakage is no longer a factor. This helps extend battery life in laptops. This is a major advancement over previous generation industry leading Intel mobile processors.
Intel Dynamic Acceleration Technology Enhanced Performance for Single Threaded Apps -- For the mobile Penryn processor, Intel has enhanced the Intel® Dynamic Acceleration Technology available in current Intel Core 2 processors. This feature uses the power headroom freed up when a core is made inactive to boost the performance of another still active core. Imagine a shower with two powerful water shower heads, when one shower head is turned off, the other has increased water pressure (performance).
Speeding Up Video, Photo Imaging, and High Performance Software -- Penryn includes Intel® Streaming SIMD Extensions 4 (SSE4) instructions, the largest unique instruction set addition since the original SSE Instruction Set Architecture (ISA). This extends the Intel® 64 instruction set architecture to expand the performance and capabilities of the Intel® Architecture.
Other Technical Features to Improve Performance
Microarchitecture Optimizations -- Increases the overall performance and energy efficiency of the already leading Intel Core microarchitecture to deliver more instruction executions per clock cycle, which results in more performance and quicker PC responsiveness.
Enhanced Intel® Virtualization Technology -- Penryn speeds up virtual machine transition (entry/exit) times by an average of 25 to 75 percent. This is all done through microarchitecture improvements and requires no virtual machine software changes. Virtualization partitions or compartmentalizes a single computer so that it can run separate operating systems and software, which can better leverage multicore processing power, increase efficiency and cut costs by letting a single machine act as many virtual "mini" computers.
Higher Frequencies -- Penryn family of products will deliver higher overall clock frequencies within existing power and thermal envelopes to further increase performance. Desktop and server products will introduce speeds at greater than 3GHz.
Fast Division of Numbers ? Penryn-based processors provide fast divider performance, roughly doubling the divider speed over previous generations for computations used in nearly all applications through the inclusion of a new, faster divide technique called Radix 16. The ability to divide instructions and commands faster increases a computer's performance.
Larger Caches -- Penryn processors include up to a 50 percent larger L2 cache with a higher degree of associativity to further improve the hit rate and maximize its utilization. Dual-core Penryn processors will feature up to a 6MB L2 cache and quad-core processors up to a 12MB L2 cache. Cache is a memory reservoir where frequently accessed data can be stored for more rapid access. Larger and faster cache sizes speed a computer's performance and response time.
Unique Super Shuffle Engine -- By implementing a full-width, single-pass shuffle unit that is 128-bits wide, Penryn processors can perform full-width shuffles in a single cycle. This significantly improves performance for SSE2, SSE3 and SSE4 instructions that have shuffle-like operations such as pack, unpack and wider packed shifts. This feature will increase performance for content creation, imaging, video and high-performance computing.
Photo of the Intel Penryn Die
Nehalem Microarchitecture
After Penryn and the 45nm Hi-k silicon technology introduction comes Intel's next-generation microarchitecture (Nehalem) slated for initial production in 2008. By continuing to innovate at this rapid cadence, Intel will deliver enormous performance and energy efficiency gains in years to come, adding more performance features and capabilities for new and improved applications. Here are some new initial disclosures around our Nehalem microarchitecture:
Dynamically scalable for leadership performance on demand with energy efficiency
Dynamically managed cores, threads, cache, interfaces and powerLeverages leading 4 instruction issue Intel® Core microarchitecture technologySimultaneous multi-threading (similar to Intel® Hyper-threading technology) returns to enhance performance and energy efficiencyInnovative new Intel® SSE4 and ATA instruction set architecture additionsSuperior multi-level shared cache leverages Intel® Smart Cache technologyLeadership system and memory bandwidthPerformance enhanced dynamic power management
Design scalable for optimal price/performance/energy efficiency in each market segment
New system architecture for next-generation Intel processors and platformsScalable performance: 1 to 16+ threads, 1 to 8+ cores, scalable cache sizesScalable and configurable system interconnects and integrated memory controllersHigh performance integrated graphics engine for client

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[Joe_the_dragon]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

As always Anandtech has one of the best

Man is OS X 10.6 Lion going to ROCK on this platform. Wow. Intel is impressing me.

by then Mac OS X better be out for all systems and by then we may see HTX video cards on amd systems.

[Bacillus]

Why do they have to do this. Every time I buy a computer, I seem to fixate on the next gen chips.

[mdriftmeyer]

Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

Your wishes for AMD don't seem to be coming true...



Just as well for me... I've owned INTC for some time. Hopefully it roars back with a vengeance.

Intel stock won't roar back. The sheer volume of outstanding shares and dilution won't produce a rise as you wish.

Intel is mature in main markets, especially chip productions.

Microsoft is in a similar position.

[Booga]

Unique Super Shuffle Engine

Weird name, but this sounds like they one-upped the PowerPC's "Permute" vector operation, meaning that the Penryn chips should dramatically pull away from the old PowerPC chips in multimedia operations. (While they're currently a little faster, the PowerPC's hold up surprisingly well in some areas compared to Core 2. Not anymore, I suspect.)

[domerdel]

Originally Posted by Sybaritic

How true. Not to bring up old history, but I'm one of those who continues to eat crow over initially resisting the switch to Intel. It's too easy to have narrow vision.

Narrow vision would be sticking with pre-Intel Mac Chips... doesn't get any more narrow than that well... it's more like a dead-end

[melgross]

Originally Posted by Sybaritic

How true. Not to bring up old history, but I'm one of those who continues to eat crow over initially resisting the switch to Intel. It's too easy to have narrow vision.

Don't say that!

You should see the new PPC's that IBM is planning. Oh wait, there aren't any new PPC's that IBM is planning.

[EagerDragon]

Expect new Apple systems using them sometime before October 2008.

[EagerDragon]

Originally Posted by melgross

Don't say that!

You should see the new PPC's that IBM is planning. Oh wait, there aren't any new PPC's that IBM is planning.

My PowerBook G7 was preordered along with the detachable liquid hidrogen cooling system.

[melgross]

While Hmurch is right about Nehalem coming out next year, likely starting in the first half, Penyrn will be out the second half of this year.

Therefore, I'm wondering if we will not see any really new machines this April at the NAB, but rather a refreshed Mac Pro, and possibly MBP instead.

Depending on the plans of Intel, we could see really new machines in June, during the Dev conference, just in time for the Leopard intro. That would be a gas.

It's possible, as Intel has already shown working 3.33 GHz Penyrn's.

[shanmugam]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Man is OS X 10.6 Lion going to ROCK on this platform. Wow. Intel is impressing me.

hmurchison, are you sure 10.6 gonna be called LION?

[ecking]

Wow intel is really killing it each year now. I have an original core duo mbp and I already feel behind now, let along when santa rosa drops, let alone next year. I feel like I hate my mbp already.

[AquaMac]

And is IBM still working on a 3Ghz G5 PowerPC? ai ai ai. Thank goodness Apple got out of that singing ship.

[AquaMac]

OS X 6 Lion or Tom cat.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by AquaMac

OS X 6 Lion or Tom cat.

This is the first time that I remember seeing Tom Cat. Good one!

[Sjbucaro]

What are the major benefits of Penryn above the current core design?

[Sjbucaro]

So, I have been wanting to jump into the Intel boat for a while now, since I have a 1 Ghz. Powerbook G4. However I have been hoping for a UPMC or similar small form portable Mac or a 12"/13" MacBook (Pro). Besides the form factor, I have been waiting for a processor upgrade (and perhaps better batteries, I value my lap!). I am currently favoring then penyrn but now with that newer architecture, I am not sure which to go with. Do you think that waiting the few extra months for the Nehalem is worth the X % boost in processing power, or is the boost only marginal? Please give me feedback, as I am desperately in need of a newer computer because the current is slowly passing to where all the good Macs go...
-S. J. Bucaro

[tsvisser]

Originally Posted by Booga

Weird name, but this sounds like they one-upped the PowerPC's "Permute" vector operation, meaning that the Penryn chips should dramatically pull away from the old PowerPC chips in multimedia operations. (While they're currently a little faster, the PowerPC's hold up surprisingly well in some areas compared to Core 2. Not anymore, I suspect.)

Everything that I have seen shows that PowerPC chips actually perform very poorly against simliarly priced / clocked Intel Core2 platforms. Their only real value is in running applications that are not yet universal binaries.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by MacSuperiority

This Intel shit is crazy.

First I was gonna wait for the Santa Rosa platform to be intoduced into iMacs before I upgraded. Now I think I will wait for these new CPUs to be released. By that time Intel is going to have something else slick coming out in the near future that will make me second guess myself again. WHEN WILL IT END!!!!! AHHHHHAHAHAA.

Is anyone going to wait a year and a half for a Penryn-based system?

Originally Posted by Sybaritic

How true. Not to bring up old history, but I'm one of those who continues to eat crow over initially resisting the switch to Intel. It's too easy to have narrow vision.

I wouldn't blame you for being skeptical at the time. The switch was announced before the Core architecture was announced, and this was when Intel has been rehashing Netburst for several years. Those in control at Apple had probably seen the long-term roadmaps (and probably got lots of contractual assurances) before making the plunge. I had a impressions that there were big changes in store at Intel, but no evidence to point to.

[imiloa]

If 10.6 is Tom, does that make Vista 2.0 Jerry?

[shanmugam]

one thing i wish to see, how much performance gap between desktop and laptop CPUs (these new generation CPUs), the closer the better!

as of now apple does not have anything to do with Desktop CPUs, we may need to look at the performance gains of laptop CPUs offer (which will go into all the Mac line except Mac Pro).

my Oct 2006 macbook core duo look old

hopefully i will get my 30" iMac come Jan 2007! that will be one hell of a machine

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by shanmugam

hmurchison, are you sure 10.6 gonna be called LION?

It's just a guess but come on Apple. Give us the LION!!!! 10.6 needs to ROAR onto the scene.

Originally Posted by AquaMac

And is IBM still working on a 3Ghz G5 PowerPC? ai ai ai. Thank goodness Apple got out of that singing ship.

I wouldn't have said this a yearh and a half ago but it's clear as day that IBM wasn't falling behind when looking at 20/20 hindsight vision

Originally Posted by Sjbucaro

What are the major benefits of Penryn above the current core design?

Penryn is mainly a Conroe shink to 45nm. The core won't change significantly until Nahelem next year.

Intel is going to alternate between shrink and then new core. Thus the Nehalem successor

Westmere will be a 32nm shrink of Nahelem follwed by Gesher which will be the new core. I think this makes sense, stabilize the new process first and then deliver a new core.

[backtomac]

I'm holding out for a 3 ghz quad core MBP....

Oh, and it better have a crossfire sli gpu damnit....

[toneloco28]

Originally Posted by Sjbucaro

So, I have been wanting to jump into the Intel boat for a while now, since I have a 1 Ghz. Powerbook G4. However I have been hoping for a UPMC or similar small form portable Mac or a 12"/13" MacBook (Pro). Besides the form factor, I have been waiting for a processor upgrade (and perhaps better batteries, I value my lap!). I am currently favoring then penyrn but now with that newer architecture, I am not sure which to go with. Do you think that waiting the few extra months for the Nehalem is worth the X % boost in processing power, or is the boost only marginal? Please give me feedback, as I am desperately in need of a newer computer because the current is slowly passing to where all the good Macs go...
-S. J. Bucaro

If your desperately in need of a new computer why would you even consider waiting for the next best thing? As for Nehalem it's being touted as the most significant shift in architecture for intel since 1996, and the intro of their FSB. With things like an on-die memory controller, increased cache, integrated graphics on the chip, etc. it sounds pretty significant. I think it's naive to think that it will come out a few months after Penryn however. I wouldn't count on seeing Nehalem shipping until 3Q08 at the earliest.

[toneloco28]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

Is anyone going to wait a year and a half for a Penryn-based system?



I wouldn't blame you for being skeptical at the time. The switch was announced before the Core architecture was announced, and this was when Intel has been rehashing Netburst for several years. Those in control at Apple had probably seen the long-term roadmaps (and probably got lots of contractual assurances) before making the plunge. I had a impressions that there were big changes in store at Intel, but no evidence to point to.

Intel's announcement of the core duo (Yonah) was made months before Apple had announced they were going to intel. I remember reading about it at the time, and thinking to myself that Apple was in serious trouble if IBM or Motorola didn't have something up their sleeves. The day they switched to intel was a glorious one!

[Joe_the_dragon]

Originally Posted by toneloco28

If your desperately in need of a new computer why would you even consider waiting for the next best thing? As for Nehalem it's being touted as the most significant shift in architecture for intel since 1996, and the intro of their FSB. With things like an on-die memory controller, increased cache, integrated graphics on the chip, etc. it sounds pretty significant. I think it's naive to think that it will come out a few months after Penryn however. I wouldn't count on seeing Nehalem shipping until 3Q08 at the earliest.

It may get pushed back even more with htx cards come out for desktops then intel may be forced to use the HT bus.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by shanmugam

one thing i wish to see, how much performance gap between desktop and laptop CPUs (these new generation CPUs), the closer the better!

That's not really possible because it always involves a trade-off. They are basically different tunings of the same design. One tuning trades power for battery life and portability, and the other allows higher power consumption because portability isn't needed, and it's cheaper to make.

It may very well get to the point where the notebooks are just considered good enough for pretty much everything, a lot of people have already decided that for their own uses.

[sc_markt]

It won't be long before Intel has had more differnent chips in Apple computers than Motorola and IBM combined. Maybe two more years...

- Mark