No CDMA-compatible iPhone for at least 5 years - report

[AppleInsider]

Being the exclusive U.S. provider for Apple's iPhone means that wireless carrier AT&T won't have to worry about a competing version of the device for rival cellular networks for at least half a decade.

That's the word from USA Today's Leslie Cauley, who appears to have confirmed that AT&T has exclusive U.S. distribution rights on the Apple handset for five years

As part of the deal, Apple is reportedly barred for that time from developing a version of the iPhone for CDMA wireless networks, such those operated by Verizon Wireless and Sprint.

Of course, the five-year embargo has been somewhat expected ever since Verizon vice president Jim Gerace began boasting over his company's decision not to bite at a similar five-year exclusive that would have made Verizon Wireless the iPhone's exclusive U.S. provider.

"We said no. We have nothing bad to say about the Apple iPhone," Gerace told USA Today back in January "We just couldn't reach a deal that was mutually beneficial."

The Verizon exec said his firm just could not come to terms on a variety of issues with the iPhone maker. Among them, Apple reportedly wanted a percentage of the monthly cellphone fees, a say over how and where iPhones could be sold, and control of the relationship with iPhone customers.

In speaking to the paper this week, AT&T Wireless chief executive Stan Sigman showed his own signs of swagger as he acknowledged the primary advantage in landing the iPhone exclusive -- which is that customers who crave the device will be forced to take their business to his front door.

"I'm glad we have (the iPhone) in our bag," he said. "Others will try to match it, but for a period of time, they're going to be playing catch-up."

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

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[MacTel]

As part of the deal, Apple is reportedly barred for that time from developing a version of the iPhone for CDMA wireless networks, such those operated by Verizon Wireless and Sprint.


That's hard to believe. I'd more likely believe that the 1G iPhone is exclusive for 5 years but a 2G iPhone or iPhone Nano could go anywhere.

[Louzer]

I'm shocked! Shocked!

Although, to me, this is more proof there won't be a 'pay as you go' vehicle (without competition, why bother?).

And it also shows how desperate Cingular must've been to make the deal they did. They're laying a lot of eggs in this one basket.

[Louzer]

Originally Posted by MacTel

As part of the deal, Apple is reportedly barred for that time from developing a version of the iPhone for CDMA wireless networks, such those operated by Verizon Wireless and Sprint.


That's hard to believe. I'd more likely believe that the 1G iPhone is exclusive for 5 years but a 2G iPhone or iPhone Nano could go anywhere.

Nope. Its been said before that the agreement is exclusive for all iPhone devices. Cingular would be stupid to have signed such a sweetheart deal for apple as described, and then allow Apple to release another phone (and better, since its newer) for use with other's networks.

[mugwump]

Um, how will it work in Asia if there is no CDMA version? So, there will be a CDMA version.

I think the headline here is ATT gets 5 year exclusive deal in the US, which was already suspected.

[trevorlsciact]

Originally Posted by Louzer

Nope. Its been said before that the agreement is exclusive for all iPhone devices. Cingular would be stupid to have signed such a sweetheart deal for apple as described, and then allow Apple to release another phone (and better, since its newer) for use with other's networks.

Maybe apple could develop an "apple phone" for other networks instead!

[ajmas]

Asia, like most of the world, is predominently GSM ( see here http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/index.shtml and here http://www.coveragemaps.com/gsmposter.htm ). GSM includes a CDMA (Code Division Multiple Access) and TDMA (Time Division Multiple Access) methods of encoding data, but this should not be confused with the Qualcomm CDMA specification, the latter being what non-GSM providers in North America are using. When Apple says they won't support CDMA, it is Qualcomm's CDMA specification they are talking about.

The coverage maps referenced at the start of this post show how much coverage GSM has. Generally, most new cell phones first come out as GSM and then are adapted to CDMA. Its all a question of choosing the market and deciding where to put the effort. In many way this is not much different than games companies with MS-Windows PCs and Macs.

[mmmdoughnuts]

Originally Posted by mugwump

Um, how will it work in Asia if there is no CDMA version? So, there will be a CDMA version.

I think the headline here is ATT gets 5 year exclusive deal in the US, which was already suspected.

To further your thought:

There very well might be a reason why Apple isn't showing the antenna design inside and component layout the of iPhone shell in the FCC report. It may already be ready for CDMA with slight modifications. It may be that they are still waiting on a patent to be granted. What ever the reason. I am sure that if Apple wanted a CDMA phone, it could be done, just as easily, with a license fee to Qualcomm of course.

[Isomorphic]

AT&Tingular may think they have an exclusive on the iPhone, but I'm betting that people will be using it unlocked on T-Mobile in under one month--especially if the iPhone is not subsidized.

[Louzer]

Originally Posted by mmmdoughnuts

To further your thought:

There very well might be a reason why Apple isn't showing the antenna design inside and component layout the of iPhone shell in the FCC report. It may already be ready for CDMA with slight modifications. It may be that they are still waiting on a patent to be granted. What ever the reason. I am sure that if Apple wanted a CDMA phone, it could be done, just as easily, with a license fee to Qualcomm of course.

Again, not with that nice 5-year exclusive license to Cingular, there's no reason to even care. And, perhaps by then, there won't be a need for it in North America.

And hiding stuff from the FCC report means nothing, because people will be ripping these things open immediately (wish I had that kind of money to be able to buy stuff in order to destroy it) and show you all the excitement of the antenna assembly or whatever.

[abrooks]

<Spelling Police>

Comptable, should be compatible.

</Spelling Police>

[Electric Monk]

Japan uses the same 3G standards as Europe on two of the networks (Softbank Mobile and NTT DoCoMo) but has zero GSM coverage. Likewise Korea has no GSM and uses CDMA, but has the same 3G standards as Japan and Europe

Any iPhone in Japan or Korea will hence require 3G on the same frequencies as European 3G. Draw your own conclusions.

[Morris]

It does make sense. Apart from some networks in the U.S. (and Iraq and possibly in the future Afghanistan ) hardly anyone uses CDMA.

Apple is just targeting the largest worldwide market.

[-cj-]

Verizon and Apple trying to negotiate control must've been funny to watch. I hope passing on the iPhone is an expensive mistake for Verizon and they stop monkeying with phone design.

[desarc]

I ALREADY know four people who are absolutely positively switching from verizon to att as soon as they can get their hands on an iPhone. in central/southern connecticut, ATTingular has perfect coverage.

verizon, can you hear me now?

[rpm16601]

Yet one more reason the iphone is of no interest.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by Isomorphic

AT&Tingular may think they have an exclusive on the iPhone, but I'm betting that people will be using it unlocked on T-Mobile in under one month--especially if the iPhone is not subsidized.

That depends on whether you can buy the phone without the service.

[shamino]

Originally Posted by mugwump

Um, how will it work in Asia if there is no CDMA version? So, there will be a CDMA version.

The article didn't say "no CDMA version". It said AT&T has a 5-year exclusive deal in the US.

If there is market demand for a CDMA version in other countries, Apple is not barred from releasing such a product. But I can't imagine there being that much demand outside of the US.

Originally Posted by JeffDM

That depends on whether you can buy the phone without the service.

Every report I've read says "no".

[bigmig]

Originally Posted by rpm16601

Yet one more reason VZW is of no interest.

TFTFY.

AT&T/Cingular is not great, but VZW's continued insistence on crippling all the phones it sells just sends a big FU message to its customers. Perhaps they will rethink this strategy if and when they start losing customers to the iPhone (but they'll still be waiting a long few years).

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by Morris

It does make sense. Apart from some networks in the U.S. (and Iraq and possibly in the future Afghanistan ) hardly anyone uses CDMA.

Apple is just targeting the largest worldwide market.

Actually, its not just 'some networks', CDMA is #1 in the USA... yep, more popular than GSM. CDMA is also very popular in S. Korea, and has over 300 million users worldwide.

Yes, GSM is more popular overall worldwide (over 80% marketshare), but even so, CDMA is far from being a small market and a tech that 'hardly anyone uses'... unless you consider those 300 million users (equal to the current population of the US) as being 'hardly anyone'.


.

[domerdel]

I'm shocked
US - Verizon Customer

My contract isn't up for another year. If iPhone lives up to the hype, I'll have it this time, next year. Until then...

[TBaggins]

If the USA Today report is true (and I still have my doubts), Apple was foolish to give ATT/Cingular that long of an exclusive. To be limited in the US for five years to a single carrier that has less than 30% of the market is silly. It's a bit like selling Macs only to folks whose last names end in S through Z.

Sure, a few people may port on over to ATT/Cing just to get the iPhone... the latest & greatest, 'early adopt at all costs' crowd certainly will. But so very many won't, for many reasons, such as ATT/Cing not having good and/or reliable coverage in their area, or ATT/Cingular's legendarily bad customer service. Or perhaps they're just satisfied with their current network, and do not want to switch. Apple will find, belatedly, that it lost a lot of potential customers by going with such a long exclusionary period in the US.

The bright spot, of course, is that the iPhone's success is not wholly dependent on the US market. In fact, European and Asian sales both may exceed US sales. Still, five years, if true... dumb move. Two years would've made loads more sense.

.

[Rot'nApple]

Originally Posted by TBaggins

Yes, GSM is more popular overall worldwide (over 80% marketshare), but even so, CDMA is far from being a small market and a tech that 'hardly anyone uses'... unless you consider those 300 million users (equal to the current population of the US) as being 'hardly anyone'. .

So if we were talking computers instead of cell phone technology, GSM is the "PC" of the world while CDMA is the "Mac"? Makes one wonder why Apple betrayed itself??

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by Rot'nApple

So if we were talking computers instead of cell phone technology, GSM is the "PC" of the world while CDMA is the "Mac"? Makes one wonder why Apple betrayed itself??

Heh... Apple actually kinda wishes that the Mac was 'the CDMA of the world', because CDMA has something like 15% worldwide marketshare, while Mac WW share is more like 3%.

And yeah, like the Mac, a lot of people argue that CDMA is better, even if it less popular. Oh well, don't want to start a flame war over it... (go over to any wireless forum, and you can start a knife fight in ten seconds flat by putting up a 'GSM vs CDMA' thread).

.

[VicG]

No CDMA for the iPhone in the USA. A tad disappointing. I do a bit of world traveling and was considering the iPhone as a replacement for my current phone. I was hoping that it would be friendly to both GSM and CDMA. I am looking for a mobile phone in the "world phone" form ideally with the capability of using both GSM and CDMA networks so that I would just need to have one phone "in the pocket" capable of being used any where on this planet. So, at least until the iPhone is released in Europe and/or the the Orient, the iPhone may not fit my needs. I noted that a few manufacturers have smart phone "world phones" that are capable of handling both GSM and CDMA. I suppose for now, pending travel plans, I'll most likely need to stick to those. We'll see.

[mmmdoughnuts]

Originally Posted by Louzer

Again, not with that nice 5-year exclusive license to Cingular, there's no reason to even care. And, perhaps by then, there won't be a need for it in North America.

And hiding stuff from the FCC report means nothing, because people will be ripping these things open immediately (wish I had that kind of money to be able to buy stuff in order to destroy it) and show you all the excitement of the antenna assembly or whatever.

I think they will use the same phone for other continents in the near term. Thus, my posturing that it is immediately relevant as to when they will be entering other markets and how and with whom.

[JustBrady]

It really is too bad that Apple chose Cingular. That GSM network is really going to cripple the internet features. (Which is most of the phone) That EDGE network sucks so bad. I thought the keynote was funny. The mighty Steve Jobs actually had to stall for time as it loaded a web page. Had he a CDMA version in his hand it would have been lighting fast. Like stated above, I am not starting a CDMA vs. GSM knife fight. I am simply noting network speeds.

[jasondwelsh]

Originally Posted by JustBrady

It really is too bad that Apple chose Cingular. That GSM network is really going to cripple the internet features. (Which is most of the phone) That EDGE network sucks so bad. I thought the keynote was funny. The mighty Steve Jobs actually had to stall for time as it loaded a web page. Had he a CDMA version in his hand it would have been lighting fast. Like stated above, I am not starting a CDMA vs. GSM knife fight. I am simply noting network speeds.

Will the iPhone be software upgradable to UMTS or HSDPA, or is this a hardware issue? HSDPA has been shown to be faster than CDMA's 3G EVDO.

"But while UMTS enables streaming video and broadband Internet access with transfer speeds around 2Mbps, HSDPA improves upon that performance with the potential to hit up to 14.4Mbps (in reality, you'll average more in the 400Kbps to 700Kbps range)."

This quote is in regards to AT&Tingular's (love that name) offering a UMTS to HSDPA upgrade to their Palm Treo 750 later this year.

"Clearly, it'd be great if the Treo 750 could support the faster HSPDA speeds, but that said, Cingular and Palm said they will offer a free HSPDA upgrade sometime in the first half of 2007. Better late than never, right?"

Both quotes are from same review of Palm Treo 750 (link below).

http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/...tag=prod.txt.1

[SpamSandwich]

Originally Posted by TBaggins

If the USA Today report is true (and I still have my doubts), Apple was foolish to give ATT/Cingular that long of an exclusive. To be limited in the US for five years to a single carrier that has less than 30% of the market is silly. It's a bit like selling Macs only to folks whose last names end in S through Z.

Sure, a few people may port on over to ATT/Cing just to get the iPhone... the latest & greatest, 'early adopt at all costs' crowd certainly will. But so very many won't, for many reasons, such as ATT/Cing not having good and/or reliable coverage in their area, or ATT/Cingular's legendarily bad customer service. Or perhaps they're just satisfied with their current network, and do not want to switch. Apple will find, belatedly, that it lost a lot of potential customers by going with such a long exclusionary period in the US.

The bright spot, of course, is that the iPhone's success is not wholly dependent on the US market. In fact, European and Asian sales both may exceed US sales. Still, five years, if true... dumb move. Two years would've made loads more sense.

.

Keep in mind, this could be another fake story to help Apple catch their leaker.

[mmmdoughnuts]

Originally Posted by jasondwelsh

Will the iPhone be software upgradable to UMTS or HSDPA, or is this a hardware issue? HSDPA has been shown to be faster than CDMA's 3G EVDO.

My bet is yes. Remember the MBP wireless n fee. We know that the phone revenew will be spread out over the year. This is most likely because they are getting a % of the monthly fees from ATT, but it does open the possibility for those users in 3G cities to 'unlock' the high bandwidth services.

[jasondwelsh]

Originally Posted by mmmdoughnuts

My bet is yes...but it does open the possibility for those users in 3G cities to 'unlock' the high bandwidth services.

I hope this is the case. AppleT&T would sell A LOT more of these phones initially if it were true. I wonder though... I would think that if the iPhone were upgradable at a future date to a higher bandwidth service, that both Apple and AT&T would be shouting that fact at the top of their lungs every chance they could get. Especially considering the almost universal disappointment that the first iPhone would only employ EDGE technology. Maybe they're just not done working out the kinks on "upgradability" yet. Wouldn't want to promise such an important feature in the 1G iPhone and then not be able to deliver with all the class-action lawsuits flying around...

[mmmdoughnuts]

Originally Posted by jasondwelsh

I would think that if the iPhone were upgradable at a future date to a higher bandwidth service, that both Apple and AT&T would be shouting that fact at the top of their lungs every chance they could get.

I think that there is not enough market size for 3G to be a real draw. It is to exclusive. I think that the marketing is going after the common denominiator with a phone that works on all markets. If the general consumer hears that 'the fast networking is only available in a few select market that isn't yours,' then there is a reason for the customer to be put off. Critics would say that its network savy features 'require' the high bandwidth and the downward spiral begins.

If, rather, Apple releases the product for everyone that works all over the 'ATT' network, Apple still gets all the fan fair of raising the bar of useable phones, and when Apple gives away 3G bandwidth 9 months later, they get a second surge of sales with even more publicity, just by flipping a switch through a OS update.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Electric Monk

Japan uses the same 3G standards as Europe on two of the networks (Softbank Mobile and NTT DoCoMo) but has zero GSM coverage. Likewise Korea has no GSM and uses CDMA, but has the same 3G standards as Japan and Europe

Any iPhone in Japan or Korea will hence require 3G on the same frequencies as European 3G. Draw your own conclusions.

So which 2G network does Japan have? I doubt that they didn't use cell phones until 3G came out.

[jasondwelsh]

Originally Posted by mmmdoughnuts

If, rather, Apple releases the product for everyone that works all over the 'ATT' network, Apple still gets all the fan fair of raising the bar of useable phones, and when Apple gives away 3G bandwidth 9 months later, they get a second surge of sales with even more publicity, just by flipping a switch through a OS update.

Good point. But I hope they can flip that switch at some point in order to overcome what most (reviewers at least) view as its biggest drawback.

My current Verizon contract isn't up until October and may not be able to put out the kind of money to purchase iPhone for some time after that. Not sure how I will be able to go on with such an unbelievably boring, feature-starved phone... Might I have to wait another full year???

And I bet that's also partially why Apple and AT&T agreed on a 5-year exclusive deal. You have to allow two years (and sometimes longer if you've changed your plan in-contract like I did) for customers' current contracts with non-AT&T carriers to expire. I doubt that Not many people will be willing to pay a $175 cancellation fee AND $599 for 8GB iPhone. Example: Two years into the 5-year exclusive deal, customer buys iPhone and signs 2-year contract. Once that contract is up, Apple and AT&T still have three years to go on their deal and customer wants to upgrade to latest and greatest so they are locked in for another two years. Nowhere else to go but AT&T. Main beneficiary appears to be AT&T in that respect though. Perhaps that was Apple's concession to AT&T for AT&T giving up part of the monthly fees to Apple (Not sure if this is actually the case. Just repaeating what I have read in previous stories).

My fingertips are getting bruised. Gotta go.

[umijin]

Ehh?!

Five years? Do you really think that this archaic GSM standard will be around in 5 years? I hope not for the sake of US customers. It's been obsolete for nearly 5 years already.

I assume this won't extend to other countries, as it means the one of the biggest cellphone markets (Japan) gets ignored. Then again, it may take 5 years for Apple to wrangle out an agreement in Japan.

Oh well, by that time, the iPhone clones will have been on the market and taken some of Apple's shine.

[retroneo]

Remember, Apple officially announced that a HSDPA iPhone will follow "shortly". This certainly isn't the last iPhone!

Korea and Australia have begun closing their CDMA networks and have put HDSPA networks in their place.

[sennen]

Originally Posted by retroneo

Remember, Apple officially announced that a HSDPA iPhone will follow "shortly". This certainly isn't the last iPhone!

Korea and Australia have begun closing their CDMA networks and have put HDSPA networks in their place.

hmmm, will this be compatible with Japan's 3G networks? going by Electric Monk's post, maybe...? Electric Monk?

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by mmmdoughnuts

I think that there is not enough market size for 3G to be a real draw. It is too exclusive.

If by 'too exclusive' you mean that ATT/Cing's 3G coverage area still kinda sucks currently, you'd be right. Maybe in a year it'll be much better, but right now, their EDGE data coverage area blows their 3G coverage away. Of course, EDGE is way slower.

The sad thing is, if Verizon hadn't been so stubborn, the iPhone could've been released with 3G right off the bat, as their 3G coverage is pretty decent, yep, even right now.

ATT/Cing has been playing catch up in this regard, though the funny thing is that the old ATT Wireless was one of the first US carriers to have 3G out there, albeit in a very tiny 'trial area' of only six cities.

I'm sure that many Euro and Asian wireless users are laughing at us, marvelling that 3G coverage is still an issue for some major carriers in the 'States.

.

[retroneo]

Originally Posted by sennen

hmmm, will this be compatible with Japan's 3G networks? going by Electric Monk's post, maybe...? Electric Monk?

Yes, Japan has two HDSPA networks!

There are over 100 HSDPA networks in 54 countries. All of the countries that Apple operates in.

Most operate at 3.6Mbit/s, but some already run at 14.4Mbit/sec.

[sennen]

Originally Posted by retroneo

Yes, Japan has two HDSPA networks!

There are over 100 HSDPA networks in 54 countries. All of the countries that Apple operates in.

Most operate at 3.6Mbit/s, but some already run at 14.4Mbit/sec.

ah, cool. so is it Softbank and NTT Docomo that are HDSPA? looking forward to my iPhone working here (Aust) and Japan!