Apple TV gains YouTube support, 160GB option

[AppleInsider]

Apple CEO Steve Jobs took to the D: All Things Digital conference stage with surprise news that his company's media hub would soon grab YouTube clips -- and unveiled a hard drive upgrade behind the scenes.

During his interview with the Wall Street Journal's Walt Mossberg at the fifth annual D event, Jobs revealed that a software upgrade to the Apple TV would give access to YouTube videos through its Internet connection, demonstrating the function through a segment of "America's Got Talent."

Unlike the computer experience, however, owners wouldn't access the clips directly; instead, clips would be added manually by a team that hosts the videos in an Apple TV-ready form. YouTube account holders could then login to their accounts from the hub and either browse individual categories or search for themselves using only the Apple Remote.

Image quality, however, wasn't set to be one of the changes. Jobs noted that the conversion would be an as-is method rather than employ upscaling or other enhancements. "You get what you get," he said.

"Thousands" of videos will go live when the update appears in mid-June, but continuing work will see the entire YouTube catalog in Apple TV form sometime during the fall.

And addressing concerns that the stock Apple TV's 40GB hard drive was inadequate for avid media collectors, the California firm also announced a 160GB hard disk option for the device, which raises the overall price to $400.

The revision is expected to appear tomorrow through the company's online store.

[Matthew Yohe]

Eeek. $399 for this box. This really does make me wonder what they are planning on doing with the Mac Mini.

[Robin Hood]

They should be selling it for $349. Would make an attractive "up-sell". But hey, what do I know. I already think $299 is too expensive, considering the Nintendo Wii only costs $249.

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by Matthew Yohe

Eeek. $399 for this box. This really does make me wonder what they are planning on doing with the Mac Mini.

Anyone else wish the Mac Mini and Apple TV would converge?

That would seem to be a pretty nice product.

.

[emig647]

If the 399 version allowed 1080 then I think that would be cool. That is the one thing holding me back from buying one.

[Ireland]

Originally Posted by TBaggins

Anyone else wish the Mac Mini and Apple TV would converge?
That would seem to be a pretty nice product.
.

I don't know about combining them, but a standard DVD slot in the Apple TV would be sweet. Maybe in the next iteration we'll see that. So then people could get rid of the their old DVD players and clear up some space under their TV's. Maybe that would be worth the $399 price tag. Then as I and Rolo predicted, they'll announce the real Apple Television, and keep the little Apple TV as a side product. If you already have a new TV you can buy the little box, if you don't, you can buy the big box

[Clive At Five]

Originally Posted by TBaggins

Anyone else wish the Mac Mini and Apple TV would converge?

That would seem to be a pretty nice product.

If it had DVR capabilities, then yes... but it won't because that would compete with the iTS.

So I'd rather have a Mini.

-Clive

[Feynman]

Originally Posted by emig647

If the 399 version allowed 1080 then I think that would be cool. That is the one thing holding me back from buying one.

I thought it does? Isn't it just a limitation of iTunes content? If I encode my own DVDs, couldn't it reach that resolution?

As soon as the 1 TB drives come out, I found a nice inexpensive 12 bay FireWire RAID for under 600 bucks. Plan on getting one of thise, a mini and the low end AppleTV and creating a beautiful media server for all my music, movies and TV on DVD

[Chucker]

Originally Posted by Feynman

I thought it does?

It does up to 1080i or 720p. No 1080p.

[Slewis]

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

They should be selling it for $349. Would make an attractive "up-sell". But hey, what do I know. I already think $299 is too expensive, considering the Nintendo Wii only costs $249.

The Nintendo Wii is a video game console, Apple TV is a media hub.. how do they compete? How are they even related in the same sentence?

Originally Posted by TBaggins

Anyone else wish the Mac Mini and Apple TV would converge?

That would seem to be a pretty nice product.

.

No. It would just be an Apple TV and there would be no Mini.

Originally Posted by Ireland

I don't know about combining them, but a standard DVD slot in the Apple TV would be sweet. Maybe in the next iteration we'll see that. So then people could get rid of the their old DVD players and clear up some space under their TV's. Maybe that would be worth the $399 price tag. Then as I and Rolo predicted, they'll announce the real Apple Television, and keep the little Apple TV as a side product. If you already have a new TV you can buy the little box, if you don't, you can buy the big box

If Steve is pushing this as the DVD of the 21st century, then it would make much sense to add the DVD of the 20th century.

Sebastian

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by Slewis

No. It would just be an Apple TV and there would be no Mini.

Must it be so?

.

[EagerDragon]

This announcement next to the Microsoft announcement?

While welcome it is not as flashy.

[Slewis]

Originally Posted by TBaggins

Must it be so?

.

Yeah. They are completely different and barely resemble each other in their feature sets. The Mac Mini is a desktop computer that people liked to play around with. The Apple TV is a media hub for content on your computer that people like to hack.

The Apple TV is what people said what the Mac Mini should have been. It would make very little sense to actually fuse the two.

Sebastian

[camroidv27]

This is the second time in the past year and a half that Apple seems to have come out with features for its hardware AFTER hackers and users made the functionality possible. We have BootCamp after hackers successfully got WindowsXP on a MacBook Pro, and we now have YouTube after hackers got AkwardTV working on the aTV. I'm just noticing a trend, and wondering if Apple is using its users to do some of its RnD for them.

And I keep hearing people and news about Steve Jobs saying "Its what I want, not the customers, and the customers will see that I'm right."

Yay for YouTube on aTV (hopefully FrontRow soon? Possibly any Flash player online through FrontRow?) but not so yay for having the paying customers do the work for them.

Feel free to argue, as I'd like to hear other opinions.

[filburt]

Free YouTube support and $399 for 160 GB Apple TV are nice but Joost and 1080p & multi-channel audio over HDMI would be even better.

[SuperMog2002]

Originally Posted by camroidv27

This is the second time in the past year and a half that Apple seems to have come out with features for its hardware AFTER hackers and users made the functionality possible. We have BootCamp after hackers successfully got WindowsXP on a MacBook Pro, and we now have YouTube after hackers got AkwardTV working on the aTV. I'm just noticing a trend, and wondering if Apple is using its users to do some of its RnD for them.

And I keep hearing people and news about Steve Jobs saying "Its what I want, not the customers, and the customers will see that I'm right."

Yay for YouTube on aTV (hopefully FrontRow soon? Possibly any Flash player online through FrontRow?) but not so yay for having the paying customers do the work for them.

Feel free to argue, as I'd like to hear other opinions.

I don't think that's really the case. I haven't kept up much with the ATV YouTube scene, but Boot Camp came out within a week of the hackers getting Windows XP booted and stable. Boot Camp also included all the drivers, whereas the hackers never got working video card drivers. In addition, Boot Camp has a far cleaner and safer installation process than the hacker version did. Apple clearly could not have done all that the week after the the hacker version went live. It seems to me that getting a Mac to boot Windows was both a good and fairly obvious idea once Macs had switched to Intel, so both Apple and some hackers decided to pursue it independently. The hackers finished their solution first, but Apple took the extra time to get a superior solution in place.

[Spiffy1]

AppleTV still pretty weak! No way to record off the air/cable, 720p (but no iTunes content at that res), price going up... etc. All in all an overpriced, dull piece of equipment, that tethers you to Apple's teat.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

They should be selling it for $349. Would make an attractive "up-sell". But hey, what do I know. I already think $299 is too expensive, considering the Nintendo Wii only costs $249.

I forget, what size HDD and type of WiFi does the Wii have? Also, how do I get it to stream my HD media from my PC to my TV?

[meelash]

Originally Posted by camroidv27

This is the second time in the past year and a half that Apple seems to have come out with features for its hardware AFTER hackers and users made the functionality possible. We have BootCamp after hackers successfully got WindowsXP on a MacBook Pro, and we now have YouTube after hackers got AkwardTV working on the aTV. I'm just noticing a trend, and wondering if Apple is using its users to do some of its RnD for them.

And I keep hearing people and news about Steve Jobs saying "Its what I want, not the customers, and the customers will see that I'm right."

Yay for YouTube on aTV (hopefully FrontRow soon? Possibly any Flash player online through FrontRow?) but not so yay for having the paying customers do the work for them.

Feel free to argue, as I'd like to hear other opinions.

And (to add to the comment above me) the YouTube on AppleTV that Apple is touting is (except for the actual content) not much like the hacked YouTube. It seems the videos will be manually selected and uploaded in categories and such by YouTube employees, presumably to make it easy to navigate the videos using the simple AppleTV interface.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by SuperMog2002

I don't think that's really the case. I haven't kept up much with the ATV YouTube scene, but Boot Camp came out within a week of the hackers getting Windows XP booted and stable. Boot Camp also included all the drivers, whereas the hackers never got working video card drivers. In addition, Boot Camp has a far cleaner and safer installation process than the hacker version did. Apple clearly could not have done all that the week after the the hacker version went live. It seems to me that getting a Mac to boot Windows was both a good and fairly obvious idea once Macs had switched to Intel, so both Apple and some hackers decided to pursue it independently. The hackers finished their solution first, but Apple took the extra time to get a superior solution in place.

It's clear that Apple is following the old mantra "When in Rome..." The larger HDD and YouTube support are two things people have been complaining about since day one. I'm glad they are watching and listening to what their community—albeit the hackor community—wants.

I'm under the impression that BootCamp support was going to be a feature of Leopard until the onmac.net trumped Apple. I wonder if they saw it coming?

[Slewis]

Originally Posted by solipsism

I forget, what size HDD and type of WiFi does the Wii have? Also, how do I get it to stream my HD media from my PC to my TV?

512 MB Flash memory, SD Cards are supported, and while they don't outright say it on their site I think it uses either b or g, but definitely not n.

Sebastian

[demenas]

Originally Posted by SuperMog2002

I don't think that's really the case. I haven't kept up much with the ATV YouTube scene, but Boot Camp came out within a week of the hackers getting Windows XP booted and stable. Boot Camp also included all the drivers, whereas the hackers never got working video card drivers. In addition, Boot Camp has a far cleaner and safer installation process than the hacker version did. Apple clearly could not have done all that the week after the the hacker version went live. It seems to me that getting a Mac to boot Windows was both a good and fairly obvious idea once Macs had switched to Intel, so both Apple and some hackers decided to pursue it independently. The hackers finished their solution first, but Apple took the extra time to get a superior solution in place.

Adding a BIOS to EFI compatability layer to Macs allowed Windows to boot. That was done in an April 2006 EFI update (and is now part of all new Macs) and had nothing to do with Boot Camp.

Steve

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

They should be selling it for $349. Would make an attractive "up-sell". But hey, what do I know. I already think $299 is too expensive, considering the Nintendo Wii only costs $249.

You really don't know how to distinguish between different market segments do you? Different device type, different uses.

[camroidv27]

Originally Posted by SuperMog2002

I don't think that's really the case. I haven't kept up much with the ATV YouTube scene, but Boot Camp came out within a week of the hackers getting Windows XP booted and stable. Boot Camp also included all the drivers, whereas the hackers never got working video card drivers. In addition, Boot Camp has a far cleaner and safer installation process than the hacker version did. Apple clearly could not have done all that the week after the the hacker version went live. It seems to me that getting a Mac to boot Windows was both a good and fairly obvious idea once Macs had switched to Intel, so both Apple and some hackers decided to pursue it independently. The hackers finished their solution first, but Apple took the extra time to get a superior solution in place.

You have a fair point, and in your line of thinking I would then argue this: Apple was working on it independently, but I am sure that they used some of the infromation gained from the hackers who did it, just like they could have with AkwardTV this time around. Again, I think the timing is interesting and I don't think Apple could have done it alone with out its user base in order to speed up the process.

[nvidia2008]

Originally Posted by solipsism

It's clear that Apple is following the old mantra "When in Rome..." The larger HDD and YouTube support are two things people have been complaining about since day one. I'm glad they are watching and listening to what their community—albeit the hackor community—wants....

Totally. In Asia anyways, where there is no iTunes Movies/TVShows, people want to use the AppleTV as an NAS(networkstorage) backup for their movie and video libraries. Particularly DVD-Rips into 4GB-per-movie 480p stuff.

Like their *entire* movie/video library. With the iPod at 30GB and 80GB, a 160GB hard disk sounds just nice. Also since iMacs are pushing 200+GB now, and more with the new models within the next few months (I predict new MacBookPros at WWDC, maybe new iMacs, but certainly both launched within the next 3 months to focus on iPhone 2nd half of 2007).

YouTube is great. In Asia, of course there is a lot more pirated and shall we say "miscellaneous" sources of videos. Convert to AppleTV/iPod format, and people "collect" a hell of a lot of video material. Plus don't forget songs too.

I of course do not condone piracy, but in Asia anyways, I think 160GB will stand out very strongly from a marketing perspective. The upsell is fine, in that it caters to a more luxury-level audience, those for example with nice 30+ inch HDTVs. Blockiness, etc. not a major issue since in most of Asia they have standard def signals. Not to mention the travesty that is VideoCDs (MPEG-1).

This would all be Asia excluding Japan, Japan is its own unique case, I suppose someone like Bergermeister may shed some light on that market.

Peace out.

[nvidia2008]

802.11N family media hub NAS. Awesome.

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by Slewis

Yeah. They are completely different and barely resemble each other in their feature sets. The Mac Mini is a desktop computer that people liked to play around with. The Apple TV is a media hub for content on your computer that people like to hack.

The Apple TV is what people said what the Mac Mini should have been. It would make very little sense to actually fuse the two.

I find myself going with Clive's take on this:

"That would seem to be a pretty nice product."

If it had DVR capabilities, then yes... but it won't because that would compete with the iTS.

So I'd rather have a Mini.

.

[G_Warren]

The Apple TV is still no use to me until it has a DVD player and DVR support. Until then (or never), I'll need to keep a Mac mini under my TV, but it means the main computer will have to be on to stream music since you can't sync a Mac mini.

[G_Warren]

Just having a think here - it doesn't seem so unlikely that someone could hack the Apple TV to run EyeTV? Sure, you would need to utilise the USB port, but I'm sure someone can work it out since it runs OSX. If someone could figure this out it becomes a much more viable device for people like me.

[murphyweb]

Originally Posted by G_Warren

The Apple TV is still no use to me until it has a DVD player and DVR support. Until then (or never), I'll need to keep a Mac mini under my TV, but it means the main computer will have to be on to stream music since you can't sync a Mac mini.

I think you will be waiting a long time for that, From what i have read the last few weeks i am confident that what we will see from Apple will be something that could be far better, something that i am suprised that no-one else has made a serious stab at before.

The Apple TV will become the user interface of a distributed media centre and new devices will all come with 802.11n and just 'noplug and play' out of the box. So your "appleDVD" will just be a DVD drive with a wireless card, Then you will go out and buy an "Apple Blueray" that an AppleNAS with 500GB and built in wireless card etc... etc.. all these devices will sit anywhere in the house, wireless speakers in everyroom and all that jazz. Actually could turn into a very cute system, and i am 99% sure this is the future of AppleTV.

I myself have had a Mac Mini under my TV since the Intel ones were launched and it has been brilliant, this weeks news has left me wondering what to do now, i was waiting for the upgraded Mac Mini but now of course i am left in the dark. I am starting to wonder what the future of my set-up is going to be. I am even thinking of resigning the Mac Mini to become a desktop 'Play' PC and getting a PS3 to be my media centre, i just am not sure i am prepared to keep buying into the Apple dream and cut my losses now.

[caliminius]

Originally Posted by murphyweb

The Apple TV will become the user interface of a distributed media centre and new devices will all come with 802.11n and just 'noplug and play' out of the box. So your "appleDVD" will just be a DVD drive with a wireless card, Then you will go out and buy an "Apple Blueray" that an AppleNAS with 500GB and built in wireless card etc... etc.. all these devices will sit anywhere in the house, wireless speakers in everyroom and all that jazz. Actually could turn into a very cute system, and i am 99% sure this is the future of AppleTV.

If I felt confident that was the future of AppleTV, I would happily go out and buy one today (well, tomorrow since that's payday). That's really what I want from the AppleTV, for it to act as a front-end for all the various devices. Just toss a networked 300-disc DVD player in a closet and use the AppleTV to control it. Or maybe not even have the storage device have a drive, just be a storage unit/retrieval system with modules that get attached to the side. Want it to play DVDs? Just attach a DVD module to the front. HD-DVD or Blu-Ray? Another module for each (backward compatible with standard DVD).

Since Jobs called the AppleTV "the DVD of the future," any sort of networked DVD/HD-DVD/Blu-Ray device seems highly doubtful to me. As someone else already pointed out, adding any of today's current DVD formats wouldn't be very "future"-like.

Not that a device that can only output 720p seems like the future to me either with 1080p already available. To me, the AppleTV is a step back. No discrete surround sound output (without way too much work for the end results). Video quality capped at 720p. iTunes only offering bare-bones movies with no extras whatsoever (not even subtitles). Apparently, much of the future looks like the early 90's from Apple's perspective.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Spiffy1

AppleTV still pretty weak! No way to record off the air/cable, 720p (but no iTunes content at that res), price going up... etc. All in all an overpriced, dull piece of equipment, that tethers you to Apple's teat.

Only in the same way that a car makes for a poor boat. Apple TV isn't intended to record off the air content. There is 720p content (Podcast) and it's probably more likely that we see short form programming in HD first due to bandwidth. I find the features of Apple TV are far more targetted and sensical that the post you've given which hasn't even ascended to the lofty position of "dull".

[filburt]

Originally Posted by Spiffy1

AppleTV still pretty weak! No way to record off the air/cable, 720p (but no iTunes content at that res), price going up... etc. All in all an overpriced, dull piece of equipment, that tethers you to Apple's teat.

You need to give up on Apple TV as DVR and DVD/HD DVD/Blu Ray replacement. It is meant to be Internet video device. But yeah, Apple should've launched at least few 720p contents (maybe Pixar shorts) along with Apple TV. And there's my never ending beef against it not having multi-channel audio out-of-the-box, but I digress.

[pmjoe]

Originally Posted by Chucker

It does up to 1080i or 720p. No 1080p.

Apple TV plays back 720p 24 fps (not 25, 30, 50 or 60). It does not do 1080i or 1080p. It'll upscale to a 1080i TV, but you pretty much have to do that to be HDTV compatible anyhow (otherwise some with 1080i TVs would be wondering why it doesn't work).

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

I find the features of Apple TV are far more targetted and sensical that the post you've given which hasn't even ascended to the lofty position of "dull".

I can't parse this line. If it's supposed to be a jab, it's far too long to be a witty jab.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

I can't parse this line. If it's supposed to be a jab, it's far too long to be a witty jab.

I guess that's what 4hrs of sleep gets me. I shouldn't really be trying to down Spiffy1 for his opinion. We all have our needs and wants and rarely does the perfect product satiate us completely.

Apple TV is such a difficult product to review because people consume video and audio in differing ways. I tend to really like DVR but I realize that Apple isn't going down this path yet and thus my ideal setup would be a DVR complemented by downloads.

I don't really buy the whole "The Apple TV is expensive" line. When compared to other devices in its class like the Netgear, Roku Labs and Slim Devices product the Apple TV is right in line. The truth is it's going to take some infrastructure changes to really make broadcast TV shine. Cable Card has all but failed to democratize things

[BRussell]

This YouTube deal seems odd. When I first heard about this, I assumed they'd just upgrade the AppleTV's video capabilities so that it would play standard YouTube videos. But it turns out that they're re-encoding the entire YouTube video library into H.264? That's simply bizarre. What am I missing here? Is YouTube going to change over from whatever it is now (flv h.263?) to H.264?

[edit] BTW, whoever started this thread put it in the wrong forum.

[benny-boy]

I also envision the AppleTV as the center of a new kind of stereo system, one not connected with RCA jacks or optical, but a digital version using USB. The "component" play seems obvious, as it does to other writers in this thread:

1) Reminiscent of the iPod accessory industry, get 3rd parties building components that all "speak Apple TV" through USB or draft-N Wi-Fi. Apple doesn't have to BACK any of these formats, just PATENT the INTERFACE with them. Add Blu-Ray, HDDVD, Tivo, eyeTV, the cable-company DVR, whatever. Just make it so you buy this thing and every addition after that is thinner, dumber, and cheaper. The piece that ATV brings to the table is downloads, and perhaps an experience described under (4).

2) Much in the same way iPod adoption was pushed ahead by piracy and illegal file-sharing (while Apple marches behind the Banner for record labels), AppleTV adoption can be driven by associations with devices that Apple Corporate can disavow. Picture a media server device that not only holds all your legal media, but also rips and stores (illegally) DVDs. Every NetFlix customer would do major damage with this thing.

3) Having said this, Apple TV should be able to accommodate higher end components that put out more than stereo sound! Oh, and where is Airtunes? My 12" PB is the best music remote ever!

(4) TV networks go interactive. That's right, under the ATV menu there are all the networks, ABC, ESPN, HGTV, BBC, NBC, you name it. Now imagine you click on them and each one is something resembling a free iTunes store. If you want to BUY an episode of LOST, go the the iTS. But if you want to watch Lost with commercials for free, or vote for your American Idol, or see supplementary footage from PBS's Frontline, or hear about Oprah's latest orphanage, you get there through a series of clickable menus resembling a webpage or DVD menu. What network wouldn't want to capture viewers this way? And then who the HELL would subscribe to cable television?

(5) Sports addicts and people who need to see live events. There exists technology to use scattered harddrives on a network as massive multipliers of broadcast in near realtime.

(6) Or New-release junkies... In the first day of release, I'm told that apparently the number of copies of Cars that walked out the front door of Walmart represented way more bandwidth than the largest server farms can presently deliver in 24hrs. Way more. Apple should commandeer corners of the ATV hard drive as disseminated servers.


BB

[jasondwelsh]

Originally Posted by Robin Hood

They should be selling it for $349. Would make an attractive "up-sell". But hey, what do I know. I already think $299 is too expensive, considering the Nintendo Wii only costs $249.

Apple should have dropped the price of the 40GB version to at least $279 (if not $249) and given previous buyers $20 in iTunes credit and then priced the 160GB version at no more than $349.

[jenniferjj007]

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