Apple shooting for autumn launch of film rental service - report

[Ireland]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Individual films would fetch $2.99 for a 30-day rental, the financial paper said.

I don't normally agree with cursing to get your point across, but that would be fucking amazing! I would imagine at €2.99 here in Europe, there would be alot more people wanting an AppleTV. That and geting TV shows here too. There'll come a day when iPTV will be a reality, Apple could very well be the victors in this area.

[AppleInsider]

Apple is in advanced talks with Hollywood’s largest movie studios about launching an online film rental service to challenge cable and satellite TV operators, according to a published report.

The Financial Times on Sunday said that the service, due to launch sometime this fall, could be significant for the Cupertino-based electronics maker if it manages to sign up enough studios. The more studios, the more premium film content the company could offer shoppers at its ubiquitous iTunes Store.

Individual films on the iTunes service would fetch $2.99 for a 30-day rental, the financial paper said. Each film download would be governed by digital rights-management software that would allow users to transfer the movie "from a computer to at least one other device such as the video iPod or iPhone."

The software also would prevent movies being copied, the Times said.

One studio executive was quoted as saying the Apple download service would "compete against cable companies and anyone else offering VOD into the home."

For its part, Apple and its chief executive Steve Jobs have long maintained that consumers would rather own than rent their digital content. However, a recent AppleInsider survey suggests that notion may apply more strongly to digital music files (which most users will listen to repeatedly) rather than films (which they may watch only a few times).

Of the approximately 1500 respondents to the survey, only 16.5 percent said they were interested in purchasing digital film copies from iTunes outright. Another 35 percent said they'd prefer to rent their flicks, while the remaining 48 percent said they wouldn't entertain either option until Apple improved the resolution of its iTunes movie downloads.

Experts and analysts believe it's only a matter of time before Apple begins offering its film catalog in high-definition format. The company recently launched Apple TV, which acts as a wireless gateway to deliver a user's iTunes content to their widescreen high-definition television sets.

If recent hints dropped by the company's leadership are of any indication, a film rental model could hit iTunes around the same time. During a recent meeting with analysts from PiperJaffray, members of Apple's management team implied that a film download service was in the works.

"Timing of this is difficult to determine, but we would expect [iTunes video rentals] sometime in 2008," analyst Gene Munster told his clients following get-together.

While speaking this year's Apple shareholder meeting, Jobs also appeared to have been swayed on the matter. When asked about the potential for movie rentals from the iTunes Store, he responded by saying, "one never knows."*

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[josa92]

i do believe my "first post" ever.
but this sounds reasonable. 3 dollars for 30 days? sounds good to me.

[ascii]

Someone will crack the DRM and take the time limit out. It's only a question of whether it will be weeks or months.

[GuyInFlorida]

Originally Posted by ascii

Someone will crack the DRM and take the time limit out. It's only a question of whether it will be weeks or months.

I have been thanking about this would be a great move by Apple for some time now...

Sure people might crack the DRM but that is true for other digital rental services as well.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by ascii

Someone will crack the DRM and take the time limit out. It's only a question of whether it will be weeks or months.

Is there a crack for current FairPlay video?

One thing I've read is that iPods supposedly don't have a tamper-resistant clock. I have no idea how to verify that, but that might be a problem.

[Ireland]

Originally Posted by ascii

Someone will crack the DRM and take the time limit out. It's only a question of whether it will be weeks or months.

People can already rent a DVD from a store and burn (illegally) a copy, this is no different than that. The studios shouldn't kid themselves of that.

[Bageljoey]

I have to say, this looks good to me!
I figured that $3 was about my sweet spot, but I didn't expect 30 days. I am assuming that is unlimited viewing within 30 days. That would be fantastic for me. I reckon I would drop Netflicks ASAP if the selection was comparable.

Not that I am unhappy with Netflicks, but the delay kills me. I am in the mood for Babel when I set the top of my queue but it doesn't arrive until after a few tough days at work and now all I want to see is Borat...

Yeah, If Apple can get video quality up and handle bandwidth issues this could be tremendous for me, and I would hope for Apple too!

[Bageljoey]

Originally Posted by josa92

i do believe my "first post" ever.

I dont know why but AI is showing Ireland at the top even though the post was two hours after...

We might need a ruling from the arbiters to see if yours still qualifies as a "first post."


( )

[Bageljoey]

Originally Posted by Bageljoey

I dont know why but AI is showing Ireland at the top even though the post was two hours after...

Actually, upon further inspection, it appears that Ireland started this thread before AI wrote the article. On May 10!! Now that is a scoop.

[11thIndian]

I hear this argument all the time, about people breaking the DRM. That will ALWAYS happen. My retort has always been that the people who are going to pay to download music, movies, and TV Shows generally aren't the ones who know how to do this kind of stuff. I think if you looked at the total download market, it would probably be less than 5% of people who knows (or know someone who knows) how to do that kind of thing. If you're going to pay, chances are you can't get it for free.

[Ireland]

Originally Posted by Bageljoey

I dont know why but AI is showing Ireland at the top even though the post was two hours after...

We might need a ruling from the arbiters to see if yours still qualifies as a "first post."


( )

I thought I could only see that, LOL.

[Ireland]

Originally Posted by Bageljoey

Actually, upon further inspection, it appears that Ireland started this thread before AI wrote the article. On May 10!! Now that is a scoop.

Exactly.. who am I really?

[retiarius]

> If Apple can get video quality up and handle bandwidth issues [....]

Problem is, Apple doesn't do "bandwidth", only the DSL/cable ISP does.

So, at existing state-of-the-art 640x480 H.264 this is 1.6 Mbps or so, with "widescreen"
being a pitiful 640x360 vs. 720x480 anamorphic for DVD quality.

If Apple goes to "near HD", this would be 1280x720 at 24 fps or 960x540 at 30 fps,
which takes 3-5 Mbps using H.264.

Instant gratification of movie rentals, but over 768-1.5Mbps DSL? Oops.

Perhaps one would "rent" the movie by filling up an iPod at the Apple
retail store at a much higher data rate, or otherwise pick from a selection
invisibly downloaded to Apple TV in the dead of night.

[scotty321]

This would be amazing, and might be enough reason for me to purchase an AppleTV!

[waytogobuddy]

RDF: after 30 days We return your movies for you, so you don't have to pay late fees.....

Windoze: after 30 days Our DRM destroys your downloaded content.



At anyrate, unless iPhone decrypts and decodes the .mov somehow, rent-to-own will have new meaning soon enough.

[AISI]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

For its part, Apple and its chief executive Steve Jobs have long maintained that consumers would rather own than rent their digital content. However, a recent AppleInsider survey suggests that notion may apply more strongly to digital music files (which most users will listen to repeatedly) rather than films (which they may watch only a few times).

Steve Jobs always said that consumers would rather own than rent their music. Jobs interviewed by Walt Mossberg, three years ago: "The interesting thing about movies though is that movies are in a very different place than music was. […] And I don't want to watch my favorite movie a thousand times in my life; I want to watch it five times in my life. But I do want to listen to my favorite song a thousand times in my life."

[joeYYY]

Originally Posted by scotty321

This would be amazing, and might be enough reason for me to purchase an AppleTV!

Yes, with a 2.99$ rental option (lower than Netflix/Blockbuster) and HD content I would expect many to buy AppleTV not only to replace any subscription to Netflix/Blockbuster but also to premium/movie cannels on their cable/satellite plan.

IMHO, this would move AppleTV from being just a "hobby"

[Bageljoey]

Originally Posted by retiarius

> If Apple can get video quality up and handle bandwidth issues [....]

Problem is, Apple doesn't do "bandwidth", only the DSL/cable ISP does.

Well, it would suck if on Tuesdays it works fine but on Friday nights movies took twice as long to download.

There were widespread postings that downloading songs from iTunes slowed to a crawl when they introduced the upgrading option because of the traffic. I imagine people downloading entire movies on the weekends would stress their capacities in much the same ways.

(*Yes, I know Apple doesn't intend to string cable/fiber to my house *)

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by AISI

Steve Jobs always said that consumers would rather own than rent their music. Jobs interviewed by Walt Mossberg, three years ago: "The interesting thing about movies though is that movies are in a very different place than music was. […] And I don't want to watch my favorite movie a thousand times in my life; I want to watch it five times in my life. But I do want to listen to my favorite song a thousand times in my life."

I agree, it's clear that a strong precedent for movie renting exists there and there is a well-established cultural acceptance of movie rentals.

[SpamSandwich]

Originally Posted by Ireland

Exactly.. who am I really?

Ireland is Steve Jobs... Steve Jobs is Ireland...... Ireland is a MAN!

[SpamSandwich]

Originally Posted by waytogobuddy

RDF: after 30 days We return your movies for you, so you don't have to pay late fees.....

Windoze: after 30 days Our DRM destroys your downloaded content.

...or for those of you with slower connections... 28 days to download and 2 days to watch your favorite HD movies!

[Johnny Mozzarella]

I doubt Apple would be able to offer up quick downloads any time soon.
But ordering a movie at 2PM while at work and having it downloaded to my AppleTV by 8PM would be better than NetFlix. They could also download overnight and you would still be getting "next day delivery"...still not to shabby.

What I would really prefer is a flat fee rental service like Netflix...$20, $30, $40 or $50 a month depending on how many movies you have checked out at a time. Let me queue them up in iTunes and have them download in the background at night. As soon as I return a movie, the next one in my queue starts downloading.

[DaveGee]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

I agree, it's clear that a strong precedent for movie renting exists there and there is a well-established cultural acceptance of movie rentals.

While I might agree with this... how do you explain the enormous sell-thru of movies especially and specifically when 19.99 DVDs hit the store shelves (and places like amazon.com) there's no denying legal home movie ownership is WAY UP over what it was when VHS was sitting under the TV and people buying entire TV series is totally off the chart when compared to VHS.

Dave

[mdriftmeyer]

Originally Posted by retiarius

> If Apple can get video quality up and handle bandwidth issues [....]

Problem is, Apple doesn't do "bandwidth", only the DSL/cable ISP does.

So, at existing state-of-the-art 640x480 H.264 this is 1.6 Mbps or so, with "widescreen"
being a pitiful 640x360 vs. 720x480 anamorphic for DVD quality.

If Apple goes to "near HD", this would be 1280x720 at 24 fps or 960x540 at 30 fps,
which takes 3-5 Mbps using H.264.

Instant gratification of movie rentals, but over 768-1.5Mbps DSL? Oops.

Perhaps one would "rent" the movie by filling up an iPod at the Apple
retail store at a much higher data rate, or otherwise pick from a selection
invisibly downloaded to Apple TV in the dead of night.

Even Qwest ADSL at 7Mbps down /896Kbps up runs for only $36.95/month for life.

This 768-1.5 is old.

[lenoleno]

I love the rental idea. Every time I buy as movie I only watch it once.

[Seeker1]

Movie rentals would be most excellent, but if they could make tv show rentals at half price I would really be happy.

I have purchased seasons of shows before, which are great, but they take up a heck of a lot of space. I know I can just delete them to free up the space, but since I bought them, it feels strange to just wipe them off my disks. I have burned backups on dvd roms, but I doubt I will ever watch them again, and that gets old fast.

If I could, I would watch the shows for free on the network sites, but I am in Japan and my only choice to keep up with shows, is to buy from the US iTunes store. Another thing I would like to see more of at the iTunes store are made for tv movies and specials, both present and past.

[Wiggin]

Sure, $2.99 for the current quality would be good enough to make me an occasional user, mostly as a curiosity. $2.99 for true DVD quality would make me a regular. Of course, they'll need to figure out how the iPod fits into that equation. Right now the iPod's max size is 640 x 480 (more or less). If I want my purchased DVD-quality (720 x XXX) to also play on my iPod, they'll need to improve the iPod's capability.

Hmmm, are the rumors for the next iPod upgrade saying it's also coming this Fall?

[melgross]

Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

Ireland is Steve Jobs... Steve Jobs is Ireland...... Ireland is a MAN!

What?

[melgross]

Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella

I doubt Apple would be able to offer up quick downloads any time soon.
But ordering a movie at 2PM while at work and having it downloaded to my AppleTV by 8PM would be better than NetFlix. They could also download overnight and you would still be getting "next day delivery"...still not to shabby.

What I would really prefer is a flat fee rental service like Netflix...$20, $30, $40 or $50 a month depending on how many movies you have checked out at a time. Let me queue them up in iTunes and have them download in the background at night. As soon as I return a movie, the next one in my queue starts downloading.

No, I would much rather pay for what I'm getting.

There are times I have no interest at all in getting a movie. Why should I have to pay the fee then?

[SpamSandwich]

Originally Posted by melgross

What?

Semi-obscure movie reference (Ace Ventura)...

[melgross]

Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

Semi-obscure movie reference (Ace Ventura)...

Thank God I've never seen them.

[addabox]

A rental service sure would make more sense of Job's declared intent of positioning Apple TV as a "DVD player for the internet age".

Bite the bullet once for the Apple TV box, thereafter enjoy on-line rentals and big screen viewing with the convenience of the Apple TV interface.

That's assuming, of course, that by the time they get rentals up and running they've managed to get things encoded at a decent res and bit rate. From what I've seen of current iTunes movie files and big screen TVs, I wouldn't pay a nickel.

[DJ Rizzo]

Originally Posted by DaveGee

While I might agree with this... how do you explain the enormous sell-thru of movies especially and specifically when 19.99 DVDs hit the store shelves (and places like amazon.com) there's no denying legal home movie ownership is WAY UP over what it was when VHS was sitting under the TV and people buying entire TV series is totally off the chart when compared to VHS.

Dave

FYI: Amazon.com is already renting movies for download to Tivo customers with broadband. I'm one of them and I hope to take advantage of it soon.

[aegisdesign]

If Apple can add timed self destructing downloads for renting movies, that bodes well for them also doing TV shows like that too. That would solve the technology issues the BBC, ITV, Channel4 have at the moment here in the UK where they offer free downloads of TV shows that self destruct after 7/30 days.

ps. Apple, when are we going to get something other than Pixar shorts in Europe? And no, we don't want just Hollywood crap either.

Do all the above and then there's actually a point to AppleTV in Europe.

[petermac]

I do like the idea. At $US 3.00 ($AUD 5), it sounds OK. However, here in Australia, I pay $AUD70 ($US 58) per month for a 1.5Mbps which caps out at 12Gb (both download & upload is counted). That works out to $5.83 per Gigabyte after which the service is "shaped" (don't you just love the spin in that term) to 64kbps. THe whole idea of downloading movies is economically, out of the question here.

So, how does your ISP service differ where you are? It seems to me that if your data is counted, your out of the loop.

Urbanized areas of Australia's capitol cities can now connect to ADSL2. Upto 24Mbps (usually around 8 though) and 20 - 30 Gb / month for about the same money as I mentioned earlier. That still makes it $2.33 / Gb. Still too much!

I'd be happy with a "play count" lapse system. Say, 5 plays for $5, then gone.

I'd be interested to hear of your ISP plans from various countries though. I have a friend in Brasil, and they don't count their data, and thinks Australia is backward in this regard.

Cheers

[waytogobuddy]

Semi-obscure movie reference (Ace Ventura)...

Ace was 'referencing' The Crying Game, another semi-obscure movie of yore (early 90s).

[zorinlynx]

Originally Posted by ascii

Someone will crack the DRM and take the time limit out. It's only a question of whether it will be weeks or months.

Does it really matter in the end if the time limit is removed? Afterall, they already have your $3. It's not like if you keep a physical video rental, where the store no longer has the disc and can't rent it out to others.

Trust me, this is probably the least of their worries.

[Pascal007]

Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

Ireland is Steve Jobs... Steve Jobs is Ireland...... Ireland is a MAN!

Considering that Ireland is a MAN,
since we know that Ireland is an island,
does this mean that man is an island ?

[salmonstk]

Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella

I doubt Apple would be able to offer up quick downloads any time soon.
But ordering a movie at 2PM while at work and having it downloaded to my AppleTV by 8PM would be better than NetFlix. They could also download overnight and you would still be getting "next day delivery"...still not to shabby.

What I would really prefer is a flat fee rental service like Netflix...$20, $30, $40 or $50 a month depending on how many movies you have checked out at a time. Let me queue them up in iTunes and have them download in the background at night. As soon as I return a movie, the next one in my queue starts downloading.

This is exactly what I think they should do. But iTunes would download your entire que (obviously with a hard drive capacity constraint that you would designate) So for th emost part your movies would eb ready to watch. Then when you are done with that movie you tell iTunes and it would free the next one for watching and release the one you watched.

People really like the netflix model its only the waiting. iTunes could eliminate that waiting for the most part. Oh and no post man.