Motorola spooked by Apple's iPhone

[AppleInsider]

Motorola has admitted that it's somewhat perturbed by the impending launch of Apple Inc.'s iPhone, but added that there could be "severe limitations" imposed by AT&T's slower 2.5G network.

The world's second-largest mobile handset maker is coming off a $118 million dollar first calendar quarter loss, notes the Financial Times, where its strategy to increase market share resulted in crisis.

Padmasree Warrior, chief technology officer for Motorola, told the financial paper that her firm is basing a comeback on a new generation of handsets, but admits that iPhone is of particular concern.

"I do worry about [the iPhone] because [Apple] is a great competitor; a very respectable, credible, tough competitor to have in the industry," she said.

At the same time, the exec believes the Apple device will appeal only to a "small part of the market" and hold its share of weaknesses. For instance, she said the phone's web browsing capability could have "severe limitations" because it will run on AT&T's slower 2.5G network, rather than the carrier's high-speed 3G network.

Motorola, which saw a resurgence after the launch of its RAZR handset in 2004, plans to unleash the second-generation of the super-slim handset sometime this summer. Like the firm's Q9 smartphone, the RAZR2 will reportedly run on the faster 3G networks.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[TBaggins]

Um... no, Motorola is not 'somewhat perturbed'. I know someone who works at Moto, and their initial reaction was "Huh!?", followed by sh****g their pants.

The main problem for them is that Apple's strength goes directly against Motorola's weakness, which is that Motorola just isn't a software company.

Never have been, actually. This has been proven by the many Moto phone releases that were spoiled out of the gate by various software glitches and numerous bugs. I know a lot of people who won't even consider a Moto until its been out for several months. Their rep has gotten that bad.

And even when Moto's software works correctly, it still amazingly, incredibly, sloooooow. Try doing much with your RAZR once you have over 100 contacts in there, it isn't fun at all. They are trying to address this, with their new JUIX OS (Java/Linux), and by putting a faster cpu into the RAZR 2, but still, they are just now starting to do things they should've done a long time ago.

The other major phone makers are also somewhat in the same boat, as they are not great at software either (especially compared to Apple), but Moto has the additional burden of its star product (the RAZR) no longer being hot, plus their (well-earned) reputation for bugs and horrible quality control in general.

So, its really no wonder they're looking for a change of pants right now.


.

[Rolo]

Loved your post, TBaggins.

[ajhill]

It's not too hard to scare Motorola. They are pretty clueless.

The got lucky with the Razr a few years ago, but the main appeal of the phone was it's looks, not any sort of functionality. I bought it because it was the only decent phone without an external antenna.

Motorola is toast.

[ecking]

Sorry Moto RAZR 2 will mean nothing, people don't want a new version, they want new hotness. You're going to need a new design, not a refined old one.

[Ireland]

I do worry about [the iPhone] because [Apple] is a great competitor; a very respectable, credible, tough competitor to have in the industry

At least they were honest.

[coolfactor]

The major difference between most cell phones and the iPhone is that the iPhone (like the Blackberry) defines a whole new genre of phones, establishing itself as a platform. Apple is going to do the same thing with the iPhone that they did with the iPod. It's already happening, as shown by the numerous 3rd-party accessories available on launch day.

Future versions:
- iPhone mini
- iPhone nano
- iPhone shuffle (okay, maybe not) :-)

Hmmm, the "iPhone metro"... that would be a cool name.

There will be different members of the iPhone family at difference price points and that is what existing members of the wireless industry should be afraid of. The onslaught, not just the introductory phone.

The iPhone is such a hot topic because of the iPod. Consumers know they are in for a well-designed, fun-to-use product, and that's the source of the excitement.

The iPhone is the first Apple product family where we'll know about new releases months before its introduction, simply because of the FCC process.

[coolfactor]

Apple is also not geeking out the image of the iPhone by calling it a "smart phone". That would attract a very specific target audience. They are going broader. For example, how any teenagers would buy a Blackberry? Not many. However, I run into lots of business people that buy them.

The iPhone is going to clean house. That should scare Motorola. It's about time, too.

[solipsism]

I take it that Motorola can no longer license iTunes for the ROKR and SLVR?

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by Ireland

At least they were honest.

I have more respect for Moto now.

Originally Posted by coolfactor

Future versions:
- iPhone mini
- iPhone nano
- iPhone shuffle (okay, maybe not) :-)

iPhone Shuffle would interesting. It could either dial contacts from AddressBook in order or randomly pick people to call.

[aria505]

The iPhone will not harm the other companies to badly.

What is going to be really scary for them all is when Apple releases their "iPhone nano" - a phone that goes up against all the other "normal" phones and just makes calls, sends text messages, and takes pictures.

It truly is going to be just like the iPod. There are many other mp3 players out there that have many more features than the iPod, but using their software is like slamming your face up against a brick wall repeatedly. People don't like that.

The big thing that is going to limit the iPhone is just that it is targeted at the high-end user just like the iPod. There are many people who don't need 30GBs of music storage so they buy the ipod nano. That is why the iPod nano is Apple's best selling mp3 players. Many people just want a phone that makes calls and can send text messages.

In the end it all comes down to the software and Apple already has every other company beat to death in that category. It just hasn't been realized yet in the physical phone by the appending DOOM of the "iPhone Nano".

SHHHH. Don't say its name to loudly. It gives the other companies nightmares.

[daijones]

Just wondering, from here in the UK, about the difference between EDGE and 3G. Of course 3G is faster, but how widespread is its availability in the US? A fast service that you can't get has got to be worse than a slow service that you can get, surely!

D

[Wally]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Padmasree Warrior

Not to be mean here... but what the hell kinda name is that?!

She sounds like a creepy character from Star Wars. Okay - I won't say anything else other than the fact that at least Moto didn't stoop to spreading FUD like Verizon & Sprint did.... I do respect them for that, but everyone is right, they can't make software for sh**.

[aria505]

Originally Posted by daijones

Just wondering, from here in the UK, about the difference between EDGE and 3G. Of course 3G is faster, but how widespread is its availability in the US? A fast service that you can't get has got to be worse than a slow service that you can get, surely!

D

3G is available in most of the major cities in the US. It definitely isn't as wide spread as EDGE. The thing is though that all of AT&T's devices that support 3G also support EDGE. So you wouldn't really have a problem of being without a data network, it would just be a matter of whether you were in an area with the fast data network or the slow data network.

http://www.wireless.att.com/coverage.../popUp_3g.html

[tomlawler]

too bad for motorola
goodbye, moto!

[Bageljoey]

Originally Posted by solipsism

iPhone Shuffle would interesting. It could either dial contacts from AddressBook in order or randomly pick people to call.

I can't believe that no one else mentioned busting out laughing with that one...

[davebarnes]

Originally Posted by Wally

Not to be mean here... but what the hell kinda name is that?!

She sounds like a creepy character from Star Wars. Okay - I won't say anything else other than the fact that at least Moto didn't stoop to spreading FUD like Verizon & Sprint did.... I do respect them for that, but everyone is right, they can't make software for sh**.

[Stngray]

Motorola lost me as a customer long before the iPhone. Motorola's biggest threat in not Apple, or Samsung, or Nokia, it is Motorola. Their phones are mediocre at best, and after going through two Razr's (back when they were 250 bucks) in less than six months, I swore them off forever. The Razr was a breakthrough hardware design, but the OS was the same poorly designed system they had on previous phones, and the luster wore off quick. I have used Samsungs since then, using a Blackjack now, and have been much happier. Can't wait for the iPhone though.

[rampancy]

Take THAT Motorola! That's what you get for screwing us over for five years with the G4.

Bet you thought we forgot all about the 500 Mhz Fiasco back in 2000, eh?

[mydo]

Why do people grossly ignore the fact that iPhone has WiFi and most people will be using an open network to access data. When I go to work my computer goes through dozens open networks. I'm really counting on the edge network for my data.

[mydo]

Originally Posted by rampancy

Take THAT Motorola! That's what you get for screwing us over for five years with the G4.

Bet you thought we forgot all about the 500 Mhz Fiasco back in 2000, eh?

The Great Speed Dump if I remember.

[gldfsh419]

Originally Posted by aria505

3G is available in most of the major cities in the US. It definitely isn't as wide spread as EDGE. The thing is though that all of AT&T's devices that support 3G also support EDGE. So you wouldn't really have a problem of being without a data network, it would just be a matter of whether you were in an area with the fast data network or the slow data network.

http://www.wireless.att.com/coverage.../popUp_3g.html

Yay, it's supported in my city!! Now all I need is an iPhone that will use the network... it's a quandry for me. I suppose that it will be awhile before there's an update to the iPhone, and my tired little Sprint phone is holding less and less charge and not getting any better on the crappy Sprint coverage in my neighborhood. Please, oh please Apple, send us a 3G iPhone soon!!!

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by Wally

"Padmasree Warrior." Not to be mean here... but what the hell kinda name is that?!

I know that foreign names can sound funny to Americans (and vice versa, e.g., 'Paris Hilton').

But it's not nice to make fun of it.

'Padmsasree Warrior' is an Indian woman's name. 'Padma' is another name for the Hindu Goddess Lakshmi, who symbolizes happiness, prosperity, good fortune and beauty; 'sree' is a respectful conjunctive; "Warrior" is probably anglicized "WarriEr" which is a classic Southern-Indian family name signifying someone whose ancestors were born into one of the 'nobility' class.

[aaarrrgggh]

Originally Posted by gldfsh419

Yay, it's supported in my city!!

I wouldn't be so sure... here's a map for LA... the splotchy blue is where they have coverage.


Having coverage in your home or office isn't much value... assuming you already have wifi there. It's when you are on the road in an unfamiliar place, or on the train catching the morning news that you really need the coverage. These are the big holes that cover most of the coverage areas.

It will take AT&T another year at least to build out a suitable 3G network, where it could offer value to consumers. Just in time for the US Rev B?

As much as I will hate losing my Blackberry Internet Service which strips down web pages at a server level to reduce bandwidth needs, I will love to gain the extra screen resolution, and bandwidth improvements where wifi is available (BIS kills some websites...).

46 hours and counting for the west coast...

[SunWuKong]

I remember about 9-10 years ago when Motorola SPS proclaimed that (because Apple was 'beleaguered') the Somerset PowerPC Moto-IBM-Apple alliance had 'clearly failed', and that it was time to focus PowerPC design efforts from desktop CPUs (ie Apple) to communications sector applications. They gave Apple up for dead. Now Apple's market cap is 2-3x Motorola, M otorola lopped off its SPS branch which subsequently was bought out and taken private, no more stock ticker for Freescale (Firesale??).
So Karmic indeed that now Apple is on Moto's turf. Not only are they having to worry about Nokia, who helped themselves to the #1 cellphone maker crown, but now Apple who they dumped.
Reflective I think of Motorola (mis)management overall.

[Billy Boo Bob]

Originally Posted by aria505

3G is available in most of the major cities in the US. It definitely isn't as wide spread as EDGE. The thing is though that all of AT&T's devices that support 3G also support EDGE. So you wouldn't really have a problem of being without a data network, it would just be a matter of whether you were in an area with the fast data network or the slow data network.

http://www.wireless.att.com/coverage.../popUp_3g.html

I live so far away from any 3G coverage that two things would have happen:

1. Very little (if any) added to the price of the phone for both 3G and EDGE.
2. The ability to turn off 3G. Well, people have talked about a hit to battery life with 3G, so if it's seeking 3G without really turning it on, that's fine. I guess any tower you're near would "inform" the phone of 3G availability and then turn on the battery draining service.

But, out here in BFK (Western Kentucky), I have at least 2 hours drive to get anywhere near 3G, so to me it doesn't matter. Guess I'll get used to EDGE, too, since on the road there will be few Wi-Fi hotspots for me to hook up with.

[Neil Anderson]

I wonder how Motorola feels to be the one who's beleaguered?

[Bergermeister]

I have an odd feeling that the iPhone actually is 3G compatible, but Apple wanted to get it into as many people's hands as possible as soon as possible. As soon as more 3G systems come on line (at the current pace sometime in the 23rd century), Apple will allow an unlock for $3.99.

Well, it's sometimes fun trying to be optimistic.

[caribbean_mac]

hay i m so happy that Moto is sh***ng them selves
i bought a motor SLVR from www.Tigerdirect.ca after 1 year the phone heated up and start loosing charge in less than an hour
so i decided to call motor. they told me to send the SLVR in after i send it in for repair they return it and said that the cant repair the phone because it was bought in europe

I'm so happy that apple have them running for cover
bring it on apple bring it on

hay expect mass suicides at motoRola lol

[murphyweb]

And in other news Mazda has made an astonishing attack on the new Apples new multi purpose vehicle iCar due to be released on friday week. In a statement to the press a spokesman for Mazda was quick to point out that a car with a .3 litre petrol engine with a top speed on 7mph was not going to be a big hit, other flaws say Mazda include no rear seats, a steering wheel that comes off when a corner is turned and no floor in the trunk.

AppleInsider Poster 1 - Well at least its safe, in this day and age people should not drive fast anyway.

AppleInsider Poster 2 - Exactly, if you really want to go anywhere fast you could always get a train.

AppleInsider Poster 3 - Who needs seats in the back anyway? Mazda seats are uncomfortable, what do they know? I will just tell passengers to sit on the floor.

AppleInsider Poster 4 - The iCar will be a hit anyway, look at it, its so cool, so what the steering wheel comes off, big deal, it still going to be the best car ever.

Etc.. Etc..

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by Bergermeister

I have an odd feeling that the iPhone actually is 3G compatible, but Apple wanted to get it into as many people's hands as possible as soon as possible. As soon as more 3G systems come on line (at the current pace sometime in the 23rd century), Apple will allow an unlock for $3.99.

No. Just... no. Early reviews confirm, no 3G. It's not like the 802.11n situation, where Apple included the hardware and did the software update later because the 802.11n standard wasn't far enough along. 3G/HSDPA, as a standard, has been settled for awhile now.

Well, it's sometimes fun trying to be optimistic.

Yeah, true.

.

[doh123]

Originally Posted by murphyweb

And in other news Mazda has made an astonishing attack on the new Apples new multi purpose vehicle iCar due to be released on friday week. In a statement to the press a spokesman for Mazda was quick to point out that a car with a .3 litre petrol engine with a top speed on 7mph was not going to be a big hit, other flaws say Mazda include no rear seats, a steering wheel that comes off when a corner is turned and no floor in the trunk.

AppleInsider Poster 1 - Well at least its safe, in this day and age people should not drive fast anyway.

AppleInsider Poster 2 - Exactly, if you really want to go anywhere fast you could always get a train.

AppleInsider Poster 3 - Who needs seats in the back anyway? Mazda seats are uncomfortable, what do they know? I will just tell passengers to sit on the floor.

AppleInsider Poster 4 - The iCar will be a hit anyway, look at it, its so cool, so what the steering wheel comes off, big deal, it still going to be the best car ever.

Etc.. Etc..

huh? share the weed man!

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by Rolo

Loved your post, TBaggins.

Thanks. But Motorola is an easy target.

The sad thing is, if they'd just PULL THEIR HEADS OUT OF THEIR ASSES and have better software and quality assurance, they'd be great... the 'Apple' of the cellphone maker world (well, until Apple entered, of course).

Moto is generally more committed to design that the other big phone makers (RAZR wasn't a fluke, in general, they do make good-looking phones), and their reception is usually quite good too.

But they just can't stop shooting themselves in the face with their quality control and software problems. Its just.... sad.




*(note: the above was a stunt, the guy didn't really do it)

.

[hdasmith]

I really don't see why everyone is so worried about the phone supporting 3G services. As I understand it, Britain is much more widespread, but we just don't use it in this country. I have a 3G phone, but don't use the extra speed at all! I don't know anyone that does. Phone makers realise that people don't use it, and thus most phones are still 2.5G to keep costs down (I know that doesn't work for the iPhone).

It really isn't going to be a problem for the iPhone. The big problem here is that everyone expects a free phone when they sign for a contract, I only know of one person that has paid for a phone with a contract to get a P800.

[aegisdesign]

Originally Posted by daijones

Just wondering, from here in the UK, about the difference between EDGE and 3G. Of course 3G is faster, but how widespread is its availability in the US? A fast service that you can't get has got to be worse than a slow service that you can get, surely!

D

Like the UK, coverage is focussed around the major towns and cities. Unlike the UK however, there's huge distances between two towns and so it's a lot patchier in between. It's also not helped by the USA having two completely incompatible versions of 3G.

They've 3G like we and most of the rest of the world have ie. based off of GSM and ITU world standards, and they've their own 3G based on Qualcomm's CDMA2000 hybrid mix of old 2G tech and their 3G EVDO for data.

Verizon and Sprint use the latter whereas T-Mobile and AT&T use the GSM based standard with SIM cards and everything like we're used to in Europe. Parts of the USA just don't get either one or the other companies service, never mind 3G. From what I gather Verizon/Sprint have better coverage and also a more fully deployed 3G network as it was easier for them to deploy using existing masts than adding 3G masts as would be required for GSM.

To us Europeans, it's not puzzling at all why Apple went with the prevalent world standard even if it's puzzling they didn't add 3G. Otherwise they'd have to make two different phones. In the USA however, AT&T are behind in deploying 3G so it's no surprise it didn't figure as highly for Apple there.

With most 3G phones here, you can switch 3G off so the arguments about battery life seem silly and at some point they've got to add it anyway for Europe. There's no front facing camera either which would be an obvious WTF? if it shipped here.

It's also partly why Nokia and Sony Ericsson don't figure as highly in the USA as traditionally they've not made phones that work on the CDMA2000/EVDO standard used by Verizon/Sprint and the phone companies have been slow to pick up phones with extra functions that we're used to in Europe. Nokia also refused to make flappy flippy phones for a long time. Here they may be popular with chavs and teenage girls but in the USA they're the prevalent design and the 'candybar' design that we love is not as popular. That's why Moto, Samsung and LG are more popular in the USA whereas most people wouldn't be seen dead with one in Europe.

[aegisdesign]

Originally Posted by hdasmith

I really don't see why everyone is so worried about the phone supporting 3G services. As I understand it, Britain is much more widespread, but we just don't use it in this country. I have a 3G phone, but don't use the extra speed at all! I don't know anyone that does. Phone makers realise that people don't use it, and thus most phones are still 2.5G to keep costs down (I know that doesn't work for the iPhone).

Depends. I use a lot of data on my phone for email but only occasional web browsing because the browser in every phone I've ever had has been terrible.

With the iPhone you've first class email and web browsing so I could see it being used an awful lot more.

I also use my phone for ssh and VNC but that's not typical for most people

Originally Posted by hdasmith

It really isn't going to be a problem for the iPhone. The big problem here is that everyone expects a free phone when they sign for a contract, I only know of one person that has paid for a phone with a contract to get a P800.

Back a few years I paid for my p910 but you're right, you can get a P990 or N95 pretty much free these days on any kind of contract where you'd use the features of those phones.

[murphyweb]

Originally Posted by hdasmith

I really don't see why everyone is so worried about the phone supporting 3G services. As I understand it, Britain is much more widespread, but we just don't use it in this country. I have a 3G phone, but don't use the extra speed at all! I don't know anyone that does. Phone makers realise that people don't use it, and thus most phones are still 2.5G to keep costs down (I know that doesn't work for the iPhone).

It really isn't going to be a problem for the iPhone. The big problem here is that everyone expects a free phone when they sign for a contract, I only know of one person that has paid for a phone with a contract to get a P800.

But you are missing the point, Apple are heavily selling the iPhone as a portable web browsing device not just a phone. They are marketing the fact that it is the first phone with a full web browser that displays full web sites unlike the cutdown and reformatted sites that normal phone browsers view. So the iPhone will be displaying web content that is designed for 19' monitors running on PC's connected to a broadband connection. But yet they chose not to go with the fastest mobile speeds available, i am totally amazed that no-one else on here will even admit this is flawed. The biggest mobile phone markets in the world run GSM networks and 3G for data, if Apple really want to get a slice of the market they need to appeal in Europe and Japan.

England has got nearly full 3G coverage now with Orange, T-Mobile, Vodafone and 3, all the major motorway routes are covered, most major towns with more than 10,000 population are covered, it must be close to 80% or higher. 3G is used heavily by business people with 3G cards in laptops precisely because of the higher data speeds required for emailing documents, web browsing etc... Exactly the kind of uses that the iPhone is pitching itself for.

I just cannot understand why most people on here just defend every single Apple product even though there are glaring flaws sometimes, it would be better if people were more honest and said "Yeh, it looks a cool phone with great features, but aint it weird selling it as a web browsing device but not supporting the fastest speeds available?"

If there is truth to the rumour that Apple are struggling to sign up carriers outside of the US then does this not say something about the potential flaw in this plan? A 2 year contract and still having to pay that much for a device that really needs a faster internet connection when the other networks will give you any other smartphone on the market for a 2 year contract and a decent monthly plan.

[DaveGee]

Originally Posted by murphyweb

But you are missing the point, Apple are heavily selling the iPhone as a portable web browsing device not just a phone. They are marketing the fact that it is the first phone with a full web browser that displays full web sites unlike the cutdown and reformatted sites that normal phone browsers view.

First.... FInd out just how wide spread 3G is here in the UIS
Second... Find out how well 3G operates in the places where it is deployed.

Dave

[JoeAlamaiz]

that's why it supports wi-fi...

BTW, nice concept, iPhone Shuffle, Random phonecalls!

[murphyweb]

First.... FInd out just how wide spread 3G is here in the UIS
Second... Find out how well 3G operates in the places where it is deployed.

Dave

Well, not sure about the UIS or the US for that matter, But as the worlds major mobile phone markets are Asia and Europe and the next major growth area Africa then for Apple to gain significant market share then just cracking the US is not going to be enough. The US has always been behind the curve when it comes to mobile phones, Europe and Japan being years ahead. Back in 1997 mobiles phones were starting to be owned by everyone in the UK, SMS was widely adopted from around 1999, we could always text between networks at a very low cost something which i understood that the US struggled with and is credited with being a major contributer to the US's slow uptake of mobile phones. MMS is very popular, especially among the target youth market and yet the iPhone does not support MMS.

And 3G operates very well in the places i have used it, i used it in the UK and found it to be very stable and fast, i use a 3G blackberry here is Australia and it operates equally as well. In fact over 90% of the population of Australia has access to a 3G network and it is used by many as an alternative to wired broadband it is that good.

Of course it has wifi, that great when you are in a free wifi zone, but then are you really saying that this is a phone that is only good if you happen to live in a city with free blanket wifi? Because it then ceases to be a phone and becomes just another small wifi enabled PDA. Like i said before this would not be an issue if Apple were marketing the iPhone as a phone but it is being marketed as a web device,