International iPhone rumors: Germany, France and the UK

[AppleInsider]

Over the last 48 hours, several overseas publications have weighed in with claims regarding when and with which carrier Apple Inc. plans to launch its well-received iPhone device in European markets.

iPhone in Germany

The rumors began with a report in the Rheinische Post, which stated that Deutsche Telekom's mobile phone unit T-Mobile had clinched a deal to bring the Apple handset to Germany.

Without citing sources, the German daily said in a preview of a story to be published on Wednesday that T-Mobile is expected to sell the iPhone exclusively with a T-Mobile contract for around 450 euros ($612) starting Nov 1.

iPhone in the UK

Hours later, UK-based Times Online ran a story regarding its own region, in which it said O2 has beaten out rivals to win the exclusive UK rights to offer iPhone.

"The tie-up, the mobile phone industry’s most sought-after deal in years, marks a major coup for the 18 million-customer group," the paper said. "The final contract is expected to be signed imminently."

The UK's version of iPhone will reportedly arrive by Christmas, and is expected to prove a key weapon in enabling O2 to win and retain customers in one of Europe’s fiercest mobile markets.

The deal with O2, however, is said to come as a bitter disappointment to Vodafone, which had been tipped as the front-runner for the deal.

"Arun Sarin, Vodafone’s chief executive, had been pushing hard to secure a deal for the iPhone, which has been at the centre of one of the most fiercely contested mobile battles since the £22.5 billion auction of 3G rights," the Times said. "However, as negotiations reached a climax, he is thought to have decided that the commercial terms on offer were not viable."

iPhone in France

A third and final report published by Financial Times Deutschland appears to corroborate reports of a fall iPhone launch in Germany and the UK, adding that the device will also launch in France around the same time.

However, iPhone's European availability will be limited to just these three continues in 2007 and will not include a 3G version, the report adds.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[solsun]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

However, iPhone's European availability will be limited to just these three continues in 2007 and will not include a 3G version, the report adds.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

After reading Steve Jobs interviews on the eve of iPhone day in the us.. He cited 3 major reasons that iPhone does not have 3G.

1. Sporadic coverage outside of major metropolitan areas.
2. Current gen 3G chips are too large for iPhones current form factor.
3. Current gen 3G chips are a major battery drain..

It was almost as if he was hinting that iPhone would not have 3G for a while yet.. If what he says are actually the "real reasons," I don't see how European iPhones could have 3G unless it was designed in a larger form factor, which I doubt will happen...

[SpinDrift]

Balls! I was still gunning for Orange in the UK. Vodafone would have been ok, they have the best network in the UK. But O2? They suck! They must have sold their souls to get that deal.

[gigi]

What about CANADA!!!!! CANADA!!!! CANADA!!!!

[Moukkis]

Yeah,

well, O2, at any rate better than Three.
Vodafone would have been the best, but this just means that maybe the iPhone will come at a more favourable rate. And it also means you will see Arsene Wenger speaking to an iPhone from the pitch-sides... :P

[digitalclips]

Originally Posted by gigi

What about CANADA!!!!! CANADA!!!! CANADA!!!!

I am amazed Canada wasn't 2nd in line for iPhones.

[solipsism]

If the reports about iPhone sales are even remotely true then all these European carriers that have been sitting on the fence to see how well it sells in the US have just lost a good deal of their bargaining power.

[Carniphage]

Originally Posted by solsun

After reading Steve Jobs interviews on the eve of iPhone day in the us.. He cited 3 major reasons that iPhone does not have 3G.

1. Sporadic coverage outside of major metropolitan areas.
2. Current gen 3G chips are too large for iPhones current form factor.
3. Current gen 3G chips are a major battery drain..

It was almost as if he was hinting that iPhone would not have 3G for a while yet..

But in a live interview with Goatberg - Jobs also said...

Jobs: ...The second reason is more profound: they have spent and are spending a fortune to build these 3G networks, and so far there ain't a lot to do with them. People haven't voted with their pocketbooks to sign up for video on their phones. These phones aren't capable of taking advantage of it. Youv'e used the internet on your phone, it's terrible! You get the baby internet, or the mobile internet -- people want the REAL internet on their phone. We are going to deliver that. We're going to take advantage of some of these investments in bandwidth.

I don't think you can read that without concluding that the iPhone was designed to deliver on the promise of 3G.

[solsun]

Originally Posted by solipsism

If the reports about iPhone sales are even remotely true then all these European carriers that have been sitting on the fence to see how well it sells in the US have just lost a good deal of their bargaining power.

yeah, now that they are sold out everywhere, they may have hit the one million sales mark in less than a week..

[solsun]

Originally Posted by Carniphage

But in a live interview with Goatberg - Jobs also said...

Jobs: ...The second reason is more profound: they have spent and are spending a fortune to build these 3G networks, and so far there ain't a lot to do with them. People haven't voted with their pocketbooks to sign up for video on their phones. These phones aren't capable of taking advantage of it. Youv'e used the internet on your phone, it's terrible! You get the baby internet, or the mobile internet -- people want the REAL internet on their phone. We are going to deliver that. We're going to take advantage of some of these investments in bandwidth.

I don't think you can read that without concluding that the iPhone was designed to deliver on the promise of 3G.

Oh I have no doubt that a 3G iPhone is in the works... I just don't think it will be in the first generation version for any country..

[Joe_the_dragon]

How does apple get pass EU laws that say phones MUST BE UNLOCKED?

[gigi]

Originally Posted by digitalclips

I am amazed Canada wasn't 2nd in line for iPhones.

I'm amazed that they never talk about Canada. In January Jobs talk about Europe and China for end 2007 or 2008 but never say a small word about Canada

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by gigi

I'm amazed that they never talk about Canada. In January Jobs talk about Europe and China for end 2007 or 2008 but never say a small word about Canada

The touch screen requires un-gloved hands. That leaves out 90% of the Canadian popular for 10 months out of the year.

[abrooks]

O2 are back tracking on this rumour.

http://news.worldofapple.com/archive...with-apple-uk/

[abrooks]

Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon

How does apple get pass EU laws that say phones MUST BE UNLOCKED?

Find me proof of that, I came across a friends phone that was on Three that was locked.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon

How does apple get pass EU laws that say phones MUST BE UNLOCKED?

My first guess is that they only sell the iPhone in the countries that don't have the law.

[John_Drake]

Originally Posted by digitalclips

I am amazed Canada wasn't 2nd in line for iPhones.

It's sad to say [I'm a Canadian] but Apple simply doesn't care about Canada right now. We're an after thought, an extremely after, after thought. With a population of 33 million, slightly less than half of which even own a cell phone, we're viewed as a market that's too small.

[CosmoNut]

Someone needs to tell Kasper that there's a separate iPhone forum now.

[wessan]

I would prefer WiMAX instead of 3G. But that is absolutely out of charts. Close cooperation between Apple and Intel could lead to WiMAX, however the power consumtion is probably even higher than consumtion of 3G modules and coverage is almost 0. But building long range WiMAX network is probably much cheaper than building 3G, so it could be a way for many operators to go.

[audiopollution]

Originally Posted by CosmoNut

Someone needs to tell Kasper that there's a separate iPhone forum now.

Heh. Erm ... I should do that.

[mayosolo]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

However, iPhone's European availability will be limited to just these three continues in 2007 and will not include a 3G version, the report adds.

Three continues? Has iPhone been playing too many video games?

[backtomac]

Originally Posted by wessan

I would prefer WiMAX instead of 3G. But that is absolutely out of charts. Close cooperation between Apple and Intel could lead to WiMAX, however the power consumtion is probably even higher than consumtion of 3G modules and coverage is almost 0. But building long range WiMAX network is probably much cheaper than building 3G, so it could be a way for many operators to go.

Yes. If you want a really enjoyable internet experience and want it everywhere, WiMAX would seem to be the solution.

[backtomac]

Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon

How does apple get pass EU laws that say phones MUST BE UNLOCKED?

Turn up the RDF.

Need more POWER, Scotty!

[meelash]

Originally Posted by John_Drake

It's sad to say [I'm a Canadian] but Apple simply doesn't care about Canada right now. We're an after thought, an extremely after, after thought. With a population of 33 million, slightly less than half of which even own a cell phone, we're viewed as a market that's too small.

Don't worry, the iPhone is almost unlocked. You can already download all its ringtones and use them on your own phone.

[noirdesir]

Originally Posted by gigi

What about CANADA!!!!! CANADA!!!! CANADA!!!!

Sorry, but Canada is not even the fourth, fifth or sixth largest country in Europe.

[dog2_99]

i see that amazon.co.uk are listing it as out Dec 1st at £329 8gig and £279 4gig

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by solipsism

The touch screen requires un-gloved hands. That leaves out 90% of the Canadian popular for 10 months out of the year.

(Guffaw-ing)

[aegisdesign]

Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon

How does apple get pass EU laws that say phones MUST BE UNLOCKED?

There is no such EU law, that's how.

I think only Belgium has that law. In the rest of the EU it's not illegal to unlock a phone but usually they're still sold locked.


There's a few small problems with O2 as a carrier. Firstly they don't do EDGE, secondly they've the worst 3G coverage by far and thirdly they've extremely expensive data charges.

My bet is still on Vodafone and T-Mobile. Vodafone has the best coverage and ok charges. T-Mobile the best data charges and ok coverage. And the graphics for those carriers are already in the iPhone.

[aegisdesign]

Originally Posted by dog2_99

i see that amazon.co.uk are listing it as out Dec 1st at £329 8gig and £279 4gig

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-iPhone...3656576&sr=8-1

And already the Windows fan boys have stuck their reviews in.

edit: I just noticed one of the whingers seems to spend most of his time reviewing self help books and games where you shoot people. What a loser!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/cdp/membe...stRecentReview

[dog2_99]

cheers for posting the link i forgot

interesting i wonder if the hand set will be sold both without a sim ie on amazon and then through the network (maybe O2) at a reduced rate?

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by dog2_99

cheers for posting the link i forgot

interesting i wonder if the hand set will be sold both without a sim ie on amazon and then through the network (maybe O2) at a reduced rate?

Do neither caps, nor punctuation, work on your iPhone?



(PS: From my iPhone)

[knappster]

I think Canada should be considered sooner. I mean, look at all the Canadian interest on just this message-board, doesn't that say something? I think the importance of geography is being overlooked by Apple.

But it's probably not a HUGE deal for them.

[wessan]

It will be interesting here in Czech Republic. We have all of the three operators (T-Mobile, Vodafone and O2) here, so it will be quite a lottery. Unfortunatelly we will have to wait for iPhone for a while as I guess it won't be possible to buy phone in other country and use it here for reasonable price.

However O2 would be an interesting choice as when you have ADSL at home you also get access to all O2's WiFi hotspots and some areas such as Prague are pretty good covered with them. You can also get a combination of ADSL+WiFi+3G/EDGE plan for very reasonable price. So, it would be a great way to fully use iPhone potential.

[jabohn]

Originally Posted by solipsism

The touch screen requires un-gloved hands. That leaves out 90% of the Canadian popular for 10 months out of the year.

Yes, you are correct. As a Canadian I totally understand, the climate in Canada is much too cold for normal use of the iPhone!

I'll just go back to reading the news. Hmmm, weather report says highs of 100 degrees F!! And I was looking forward to snowshoe-ing to Bill's igloo for bacon and beer and maybe a hockey game later, eh?!

[marbiol]

Originally Posted by abrooks

Find me proof of that, I came across a friends phone that was on Three that was locked.

It's perfectly legal for them to sell it locked, but they are obliged to offer unlocking if the customer specifically requests it... They may make the process a hassle, but they can't avoid it.

[frenchseb]

Hi,

Contrary to what a lot of people think on this forum, european law does not require phones to be unlocked when you buy them, but the phone company must give you an unlock code after 6 months of paid subscription. Whatever the subscription. So Apple could very well sell locked phones, but after 6 months would have to provide a way to unlock them.

Hope that clears a little misunderstanding.

Sebastien

Originally Posted by abrooks

Find me proof of that, I came across a friends phone that was on Three that was locked.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by frenchseb

Hi,

Contrary to what a lot of people think on this forum, european law does not require phones to be unlocked when you buy them, but the phone company must give you an unlock code after 6 months of paid subscription. Whatever the subscription. So Apple could very well sell locked phones, but after 6 months would have to provide a way to unlock them.

Hope that clears a little misunderstanding.

Sebastien

Welcome to the AI forums, Sebastien.

That doesn't clear up anything. Most comments I've read report that different countries have different regulations on locking phones. For instance, Germany has no problem with it and does not require you offer an unlock code after a predetermined time while in Belgium it's illegal to lock at a phone at all.

I'm tired of all this speculation. I'll try to find some documentation on all this.

[frenchseb]

Whether countries applies correctly or not the European laws is a whole different issue, which goes beyond this forum.

European law always takes over country laws, so if a German provider does not want to give you the code to unlock your phone in accordance with a local law, you could theoretically sue him or your country at the European court. Of course you are not going to do it by yourself and would probably need the help of a consumer organization.

But again it's not because some countries dont apply a european law that it does not exist. France does not follow the legal european level of pesticides in drinking water in Britanny and got condemned by the European courts. (a different issue I agree, but the same idea).

Sim locking is clearly viewed as anti competitive by the DG IV of the European Commission. Already back in 1996.

Sebastien.




Case Study: DG IV Intervention in “SIM Locking”
The following approach was taken by the Director – General for competition (DG IV) of the European Commission in the case of the “SIM Lock” feature on mobile phone handsets. This feature was, at one time, common on European handsets.

The SIM Lock feature had at least two characteristics:
It could be used as a theft deterrent (since the “Subscriber identification module” – or “SIM – integrated circuit card was uniquely associated with a particular handset); and
It effectively locked a particular handset and subscriber to a single mobile telephone service operator. The SIM card authorised a particular handset and subscriber to use a particular service provider’s network. Locking the SIM card and preventing its replacement in the handset prevented subscribers from changing their service provider. The SIM Lock feature could be “unlocked”. However, service providers tended to impose significant charges for overriding the SIM Lock feature.

On 30 May 1996, DG IV wrote a letter to the manufacturers of the handsets and to network operators notifying then that it considered the SIM Lock feature as having anti-competitive effects. Further consultations and correspondence ensued. As a result, manufacturers agreed to modify their handsets and include the ability for subscribers to unlock the SIM Lock feature. DG IV also set out a number of additional restrictions on the use of the SIM Lock feature. These included full disclosure to consumers that they could unlock the handsets. Where service providers had subsidised handsets prices, the amount of the subsidy and specific commercial terms for recovering the subsidy had to be disclosed. Providers also had to disclose any effect that this subsidy might have on the subscriber’s ability to unlock the feature. DG IV permitted service providers to keep the handsets until such time as the subsidy had been recovered.

Originally Posted by solipsism

Welcome to the AI forums, Sebastien.

That doesn't clear up anything. Most comments I've read report that different countries have different regulations on locking phones. For instance, Germany has no problem with it and does not require you offer an unlock code after a predetermined time while in Belgium it's illegal to lock at a phone at all.

I'm tired of all this speculation. I'll try to find some documentation on all this.

[murphyweb]

After reading Steve Jobs interviews on the eve of iPhone day in the us.. He cited 3 major reasons that iPhone does not have 3G.

1. Sporadic coverage outside of major metropolitan areas.
2. Current gen 3G chips are too large for iPhones current form factor.
3. Current gen 3G chips are a major battery drain..

Okay, so these are 3 reasons why the iPhone does not haave 3G in the US, but this article is about Europe and things are very different there. There is very wide 3G coverage in England with most areas of the country having coverage, Germany has good coverage and so does Italy (not sure about France).

There are some 3G phones available in small form factor and while yes 3G can be a bigger drain on batterys it is nowhere near as bigger drain as Wifi is!

There's a few small problems with O2 as a carrier. Firstly they don't do EDGE, secondly they've the worst 3G coverage by far and thirdly they've extremely expensive data charges.

O2's 3G coverage is not nearly as good as 3, Vodafone or Orange you are right, but am confused by the "lack of Edge" comment. No-one has Edge in the UK or Europe for that matter. GPRS is the 2.5G data standard in Europe and is far too slow for browsing of web pages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post
If the reports about iPhone sales are even remotely true then all these European carriers that have been sitting on the fence to see how well it sells in the US have just lost a good deal of their bargaining power.

yeah, now that they are sold out everywhere, they may have hit the one million sales mark in less than a week..

Yeah, i know you would love to believe this but i would not put too much faith in that idea! There have been reports of Apple struggling to sign up European carriers for the iPhone, i think precisley down to the lack of 3G. The 3G licences in the UK were sold for stupid money (around £18 Billion i think one company paid) and the carriers need to start making money back from their 3G networks, at the moment business use them a lot, and some consumers but they need more.

I know the Americans on here love the iPhone, but you guys probably need to understand that Europe has a much more mature and advanced mobile phone market than in the States. The iPone is not really such a big technological improvement over other phones available in Europe at the moment, if anyone has seen any of the smart phones by SonyErricson or Nokia lately for instance with large screens, web rbowsing, email and 3G all in one small form factor.

People in Europe are just not going to go as potty over the iPhone as the Americans (i mean come on! Queuing all day to buy a phone!!) People are less likely to change networks just to get an iphone, Most Orange customers will not want to move to O2 just for the iPhone, so things are going to be very different from the US. The carriers know this and really the ball is in their court here, not Apples. This is the issue with Apple entering a market it has no experience in. This aint like selling iPods and iMacs, you cannot just sell the same product worldwide in the mobile market.

[britwithgoodteeth]

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

Do neither caps, nor punctuation, work on your iPhone?



(PS: From my iPhone)

It's clear that your iPhone's "be a dick" setting is working fine!