Analyst sees next-gen touchscreen iPods by Macworld

[AppleInsider]

Speaking to clients in a research note Monday, investment research firm Piper Jaffray said it believes Apple will soon introduce a new breed of video iPods based around the same technologies used in the iPhone handset.

"We believe the iPhone reveals much of what the iPod will soon be," wrote analyst Gene Munster. "Specifically, we expect Apple to release high capacity iPods based on OS X sometime during or before Macworld '08 in January."

Munster said the new digital media players will likely have touch-screen media features akin to the iPhone, but will not include wireless phone capabilities or Internet features.

The analyst's comments appear to draw from those of Apple chief executive Steve Jobs, who during an internal Apple meeting last month hinted that the company was working on next-generation iPods that, like iPhone, would run an embedded version of the Mac OS X operating system.

In his note to clients, Munster went on to say new touch-screen video iPods could both curb cannibalization of the players by iPhone and boost the company's margins at the same time.

The analyst estimates yearly iPod growth to fall from 35 percent in fiscal 2007 to just 13 percent by fiscal 2009. However, he notes that OS X-based iPods with some of iPhone's features could help lessen the impact of the cannibalization.

"We believe iPhone buyers are looking for a better mobile phone, and the iPod features are an added bonus," the analyst wrote. "Based on recent survey work, we believe most the current iPod base is simply looking for a better iPod.

Munster speculated that new video iPods in the $299 price range, which include some of the iPhone's new iPod features but not its telephony and Internet capabilities, would likely address such demand.

Should those new OS X-based iPod models share iPhone components and software, it will add economies of scale to the iPhone business, he said.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[Kolchak]

But it's got to have the WiFi! I wouldn't even care if it was just 802.11b rather than g or n, and I could live without Bluetooth. Take the damn phone portion, but give me wireless. (Skype wouldn't hurt, either.) They can take the cheap, zoomless camera, too.

Papa needs a new iPod!

[marchhare]

Macworld is making the next-gen iPod? And he actually saw them?

Ohhhhh, I get it. You mean that he predicts it will be available before the next Macworld Conference. Riiiight.

[TBaggins]

January 2008??? Meh.

It would be a real mistake for Apple to miss the '07 holiday season on this one. The longer Apple waits, the more likely some tard competitor like MS or Samsung or Sony releases a crude touchscreen player before them, with all the attendant marketing claims that they're the innovator, they got there first, etc. etc.

And while $299 is the 'nice' pricepoint for a high-end, touchscreen iPod, I'll bet Apple finds a way to miss it. Prolly they release two touchscreen iPods at $349 and $449 (!), especially if they go with flash memory... which admittedly is still quite pricey (but whose lower power requirements are a nice offset to the greater power drain of a huge 'iPhonelike' screen).

.

[biggsjm]

January just won't do. I am nursing along my 3G 15GB iPod. I've used it everyday for 3 1/2 years and its starting to show wear.

I've found myself staring at the 30GB ipods at best buy (now only 249!!!). I am like, I SOOOO Could just pick one up. . . but I know that I should wait for this one.

I agree with the above posters . . . just give me the WIFI option. I would love a portable mini-browser for when I am on the go.

You can even charge me $399 for it.

My Guess:

30GB (flash) iPod (touchscreen like iPhone).

with WIFI $399
without WIFI $299

60GB version

with WIFI $499
without $399

[mrjoec123]

Originally Posted by Kolchak

But it's got to have the WiFi! I wouldn't even care if it was just 802.11b rather than g or n, and I could live without Bluetooth. Take the damn phone portion, but give me wireless. (Skype wouldn't hurt, either.) They can take the cheap, zoomless camera, too.

Papa needs a new iPod!

For once, I agree with an analyst. The world must be coming to an end.

I think it's far more likely that the new video iPod will have just the iPod features of iPhone, and not the WiFi/Safari capabilities. It's the best way to ensure that you don't cannibalize iPhone or iPod sales. And it's the only way to keep the price in line.

I'm more interested in seeing how they solve the storage issue myself. For me to get a new iPod, I'd need more than the 80 GB of storage I already have. That means sticking with hard drives for now, which might be bulky on a new iPod with a touch screen.

If they went all Flash RAM, the biggest iPod I could envision would be 32 GB. Otherwise, it'll end up costing more than $299 for sure.

And meanwhile the nano would probably have to remain non-touch screen. I can't see a screen that small being easy to tap with your thumbs.

[mazzy]

I need a 100GB or more iPod. I don't care about a phone but my 80GB is full and I want to take all my digital music with me everywhere. I hope they just don't do these flash based with small storage.

[pmjoe]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Munster speculated that new video iPods in the $299 price range, which include some of the iPhone's new iPod features but not its telephony and Internet capabilities, would likely address such demand.

Should those new OS X-based iPod models share iPhone components and software, it will add economies of scale to the iPhone business, he said.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

Uh ... not likely. Drop the Internet capabilities and there's no point in using the same components and software. Keep them, and the iPod would actually be more expensive than the iPhone since you won't be getting a discount for the two year contract ... especially after you add storage space to get it up to the specs of current iPods.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see this, but I don't see this happening soon without a huge drop in the price of the iPhone.

[jtismee]

100GB?? how many songs do you possibly have? You must think i'm crazy to own as my primary computer a 12" Powerbook with a total hard drive capacity of 80GB. I can understand if its video taking up that space but 100GB of songs?? i dont see a need for that..

But i do want the WiFi internet browser, or at least a finder that lets you view and edit documents. However i do agree with the analyst with the idea that it would canibalize the iPhone if you just took out the phone capabilities and kept everything else in the iPod.

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by pmjoe

Uh ... not likely. Drop the Internet capabilities and there's no point in using the same components and software. Keep them, and the iPod would actually be more expensive than the iPhone since you won't be getting a discount for the two year contract ...

I don't think the iPhone was subsidized by ATT, though most phones are. You paid full price AND still were bound to a two-year contract.

It was a source of some complaint, both on AI forums and elsewhere. But, hasn't seemed to hurt sales, not yet anyway.

.

[ApplePi]

I have to agree. Having a 60 and 100gig model with a touch screen and OSX would be great. I'd love to have the wifi+safari but then, like so many people, I wouldn't have a need to buy an iphone. At the very least it should have bluetooth for wireless headphones. That at least makes sense for a portable media player. Wifi is just a bonus if it's included.

However if it was priced the same as an iPhone but the only difference was the trade-in of the phone/flash storage ability for a hard drive, I'd do it. I don't really need the phone but I could certainly use the large storage space and would love to have everything else the iphone has, including the wifi.

[Kolchak]

Originally Posted by jtismee

100GB?? how many songs do you possibly have? You must think i'm crazy to own as my primary computer a 12" Powerbook with a total hard drive capacity of 80GB. I can understand if its video taking up that space but 100GB of songs?? i dont see a need for that..

But i do want the WiFi internet browser, or at least a finder that lets you view and edit documents. However i do agree with the analyst with the idea that it would canibalize the iPhone if you just took out the phone capabilities and kept everything else in the iPod.

I'd be quite happy with 4GB at $399. I still haven't filled up my old 4GB mini, although I suppose it'd be nice to have some extra room for movies. Heck, Apple, give us some kind of media card slot so we could add our own memory. 4GB SD cards are downright cheap nowadays.

As for cannibalization, many if not most people would still rather have the iPhone. The combined phone/ipod means one less gadget to carry and you don't need to search for a WiFi hotspot to get online. I don't go online enough on the go to need always connected Internet, but there are a lot of net junkies out there who do.

[pt123]

Originally Posted by TBaggins

I don't think the iPhone was subsidized by ATT, though most phones are. You paid full price AND still were bound to a two-year contract.

It was a source of some complaint, both on AI forums and elsewhere. But, hasn't seemed to hurt sales, not yet anyway.

.

If you believe some of the reports of AT&T paying Apple for each subscriber, then the phones were subsidized, just not to the customer. From AT&T perspective, they paid to Apple instead of the you and I.

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by pt123

If you believe some of the reports of AT&T paying Apple for each subscriber, then the phones were subsidized, just not to the customer. From AT&T perspective, they paid to Apple instead of the you and I.

Forgive me, but as a consumer, I'm going to care only if I see a price break.

Apple getting paid is nice but doesn't really help me, if some of said payment isn't trickling down to the consumer.

.

[Johnny Mozzarella]

iPhone 8GB = $599
iPhone 4GB = $499
iPod 16GB = $399 (Multitouch iPod + WiFi + Safari + Mail + Camera)
iPod 80GB = $299 (Multitouch iPod)
iPod nano = $199-$249 (Multitouch iPod)
iPod shuffle = $79

I believe we will see an iPod with WiFi.
If not before the holidays, then definitely at MacWorld.

Microsoft won the OS war and the browser war in the 90s.
Every time Apple sells an iPhone or iPod with Mac OSX and Safari they will be chipping away at MS marketshare.
If you thought the original iPod's halo effect was impressive, the iPhone and new iPods are going to be kicking butt and taking names.

[Blah64]

Originally Posted by Kolchak

But it's got to have the WiFi! I wouldn't even care if it was just 802.11b rather than g or n, and I could live without Bluetooth. Take the damn phone portion, but give me wireless. (Skype wouldn't hurt, either.) They can take the cheap, zoomless camera, too.

Papa needs a new iPod!

Wow. I couldn't have written this better myself. These are my feelings exactly, word-for-word!

Don't just give me an iPod with a better screen and some fancy UI. With WiFi/browsing that becomes a truly new type of device - one I have craved for a long time. As long as there's a phone in it and contract requirements, count me out.

[SpamSandwich]

Originally Posted by Blah64

Wow. I couldn't have written this better myself. These are my feelings exactly, word-for-word!

Don't just give me an iPod with a better screen and some fancy UI. With WiFi/browsing that becomes a truly new type of device - one I have craved for a long time. As long as there's a phone in it and contract requirements, count me out.

These are the kinds of demands that Apple likes to hear, so they can properly exploit their next product introduction.

[Blah64]

Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

These are the kinds of demands that Apple likes to hear, so they can properly exploit their next product introduction.

Yeah, and you know that at least -some- people within Apple read the forums, so might as well spell it out here....

[Clive At Five]

I realize this may be unlikely, but I agree that the iPod would be an iPhone minus the Phone. It'd be a blast browsing the net while listening to tunes, while sipping a latte at my local Caribou Coffee (mmm.......... Caribou......).

We've all heard that the iPod is "all about the music" but more recently, the iPod has taken on more of a PMP (portable meadia player) stance rather than just an MP3 player. That being said, a device that played music, videos, browsed mobile YouTube, and surfed the web would be one KILLER PMP.

Besides. If they're stuffing OS X into the thing, they better be using it for more than just CoverFlow and a few licks of Quartz rendering... What a waste that would be...

-Clive

[biggulpmark]

I don't have any need for many of the iPhone features in an iPod. I don't want to surf the web via an iPod. I have a laptop for that.

What I would love is this: (posted in order of importance)
• Front Row-ish interface for when docked to a TV (i want the ability to navigate the iPod via the remote)
• Widescreen Multi-Touch (a must post-iPhone era)
• The iPhone iPod interface (cover flow)
• The iPhone Photo interface (zoom and rotate)
• 100GB (not that I've ever filled my 60GB with music, but I carry a lot of files with me and often run out of space)

Could do without(but would be nice)
• Wifi for file access (not web, widgets might be cool though)
• Bluetooth (for headphones, remote, other accessories)

LIKE THIS:


That's pretty much it... Not to much to ask is it? All I really want is the Front Row-ish feature. This seems like a pretty big oversight to have not added this to the Video iPod in the first place. I think that could have been done with the current iPod Video hardware.

[techfreak85]

Originally Posted by Kolchak

But it's got to have the WiFi! I wouldn't even care if it was just 802.11b rather than g or n, and I could live without Bluetooth. Take the damn phone portion, but give me wireless. (Skype wouldn't hurt, either.) They can take the cheap, zoomless camera, too.

Papa needs a new iPod!

I agree. I could see the wi fi coming from a mile away. maby access the itunes store directly from the phone i mean iPod.

[ecking]

Why would it run OSX if all it did was play music, that'd be a major waste of strength. It would have to at least have Wifi.

[cameronj]

Originally Posted by Blah64

Yeah, and you know that at least -some- people within Apple read the forums, so might as well spell it out here....

I for one hope they don't - or at least that they don't take what they read seriously. These boards represent such a tiny, and non-average, part of Apple's user base that using our collective opinion/desires would result in some products that missed the marketable window quite badly.

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by Clive At Five

I realize this may be unlikely, but I agree that the iPod would be an iPhone minus the Phone. It'd be a blast browsing the net while listening to tunes, while sipping a latte at my local Caribou Coffee (mmm.......... Caribou......).

We've all heard that the iPod is "all about the music" but more recently, the iPod has taken on more of a PMP (portable meadia player) stance rather than just an MP3 player. That being said, a device that played music, videos, browsed mobile YouTube, and surfed the web would be one KILLER PMP.

Besides. If they're stuffing OS X into the thing, they better be using it for more than just CoverFlow and a few licks of Quartz rendering... What a waste that would be...

Yeah, I'd agree that the PMP (Portable Media Player) route is the way to go... iPod + WiFi web surfing. Plus MultiTouch and an iPhonelike big screen... as a total 'iPhone without the phone' package, it'd be very nice to have.

But also, if Apple DIDN'T do this, I'd be afraid of a competitor (Zune, SanDisk, etc.) going that route while Apple offers something that's 'just' an iPod. That would be giving the competition a major and positive point of differentiation from the iPod... something the Zune tried and failed to do ('the social', lol).

Apple hopefully is not foolish enough to let that happen.

Of course, some people may want 'just an iPod', and wouldn't want the web-surfing WiFi stuff adding cost and reducing battery life. So perhaps Apple may release two lines of touchscreen iPods, one that are PMPs (I so want to say 'P.I.M.P.S', lol), and one that are 'just' iPods, at a lower price point.

Then everyone's happy. Except, of course, for the obstinate few who are never happy.

.

[bsenka]

Originally Posted by jtismee

100GB?? how many songs do you possibly have? You must think i'm crazy to own as my primary computer a 12" Powerbook with a total hard drive capacity of 80GB. I can understand if its video taking up that space but 100GB of songs?? i dont see a need for that..

But i do want the WiFi internet browser, or at least a finder that lets you view and edit documents. However i do agree with the analyst with the idea that it would canibalize the iPhone if you just took out the phone capabilities and kept everything else in the iPod.

My iTunes library has more than 80GB of music already. It's not possible to put everything on an existing iPod, so I don't even try. I just reload my 2GB Nano every so often, and gave the 30GB video iPod to my son. A 100GB iPod would serve me well now, but I'd still be in the same situation in a year or so as my collection continues to grow. Ideally, I'd like to see these miniature hard drives have capacities in the 200-250GB range. Then, taking an actual collection of videos/movies with you would actually be feasible.

Some day. I still remember the days when a ONE GB hard drive was a distant pipe dream.

[reallynotnick]

Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella

iPod 16GB = $399 (Multitouch iPod + WiFi + Safari + Mail + Camera)
iPod 80GB = $299 (Multitouch iPod)

I know I would camp out for that 16GB iPod, pretty much my dream iPod right now.

[pmjoe]

Originally Posted by TBaggins

I don't think the iPhone was subsidized by ATT, though most phones are. You paid full price AND still were bound to a two-year contract.

It was a source of some complaint, both on AI forums and elsewhere. But, hasn't seemed to hurt sales, not yet anyway.

Yeah right, because Apple said to AT&T, go ahead and take this exclusive deal to offer the iPhone, all the new subscribers you'll get, and oh, while you're at it, you can keep the money you'd normally pay the phone manufacturer too.

Originally Posted by pt123

If you believe some of the reports of AT&T paying Apple for each subscriber, then the phones were subsidized, just not to the customer. From AT&T perspective, they paid to Apple instead of the you and I.

Which means the cost of the phone is subsidized by your contract.

[tetzel1517]

Originally Posted by reallynotnick

I know I would camp out for that 16GB iPod, pretty much my dream iPod right now.

I don't know... 16 gb seems like an odd amount. Someone who's going to buy that kind of device will probably want/need more than 16 gb capacity.

My ideal iPod is 80 gb, widescreen, touchscreen, and has WiFi, but only for the purpose of getting music from the iTunes Store. I think the iPod should remain a media player at its core. Let the iPhone be the 3-in-1 device.

[reallynotnick]

Originally Posted by tetzel1517

I don't know... 16 gb seems like an odd amount. Someone who's going to buy that kind of device will probably want/need more than 16 gb capacity.

My ideal iPod is 80 gb, widescreen, touchscreen, and has WiFi, but only for the purpose of getting music from the iTunes Store. I think the iPod should remain a media player at its core. Let the iPhone be the 3-in-1 device.

See I want an iPhone, but I simply can't have one because we don't have AT&T here so I have no choice. I want a convergence device. Too me 16GB is exactly what I want right now, I have just a little over a 1GB of music but then I would love to have a large collection of videos on it too. I think I rather have a slimmer device with longer battery and no moving parts over a huge HDD.

I understand that some people want a large HDD though, not sure how to balance that in.

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by pmjoe

Yeah right, because Apple said to AT&T, go ahead and take this exclusive deal to offer the iPhone, all the new subscribers you'll get, and oh, while you're at it, you can keep the money you'd normally pay the phone manufacturer too.

Sure, why not? Considering

1) That Apple is still getting the money that they'd normally be getting from the carrier subsidy. Its just coming from the customer now, at the time of the iPhone's sale.

2) ATT is paying Apple a portion of the monthly service fees. Which, over the long haul, adds up to a lot, and is not a deal that handset makers usually (if ever) get.

It's smart, actually. If ATT was subsidizing the iPhone at all, ATT could use that as an argument to NOT pay Apple a cut of the monthly service fees, or at least to reduce the cut. It'd be like, "Hey, we ALREADY paid you, Apple! WTH do you want, the world?!?"

But with the customer paying full price up front for the phone AND Apple getting a cut of the service plan fees, Apple's making out great on both ends of the deal.

Jobs is masterful, to the point of being almost scary.

.

[capiendo]

Originally Posted by Kolchak

But it's got to have the WiFi! I wouldn't even care if it was just 802.11b rather than g or n, and I could live without Bluetooth. Take the damn phone portion, but give me wireless. (Skype wouldn't hurt, either.) They can take the cheap, zoomless camera, too.

Papa needs a new iPod!

want a iPod with wifi? get a PSP! and it plays games! and it's way cheaper!!

but seriously, i agree. i'd much rather have a wiPod; web surfing on the PSP doesn't compare to Safari on the iPhone. gaming on the PSP is pretty sweet tho. maybe i'll get both.

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by capiendo

want a iPod with wifi? get a PSP! and it plays games! and it's way cheaper!!

but seriously, i agree. i'd much rather have a wiPod; web surfing on the PSP doesn't compare to Safari on the iPhone. gaming on the PSP is pretty sweet tho. maybe i'll get both.

In theory gaming on the PSP is good but the game selection is so small. Also, wifi really sucks on the PSP. It's very slow in my experience and it screws up a lot of web page rendering almost to the point of being unusable.

The odd few games it has are quite good but overall, I don't think it's worth it, especially taking into consideration the price of the games. The thumb stick is also not very nice. What I'd probably do is get a PS2 + an ipod with wifi if it was available. Large selection of cheap games, great ipod and great wifi.

[thehellgate911]

My hand has been on my wallet ever since the iPhone was announced.

I CANNOT WAIT for an iPod that I can load ALL my DVD's onto, and watch them in crisp resolution on a 3.5" or 4" screen.

I'm buying one the day they come out.

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by Marvin

In theory gaming on the PSP is good but the game selection is so small. Also, wifi really sucks on the PSP. It's very slow in my experience and it screws up a lot of web page rendering almost to the point of being unusable.

The odd few games it has are quite good but overall, I don't think it's worth it, especially taking into consideration the price of the games. The thumb stick is also not very nice. What I'd probably do is get a PS2 + an ipod with wifi if it was available. Large selection of cheap games, great ipod and great wifi.

If you care about portable gaming, you should also consider the Nintendo DS.

The DS-specfic games are innovative and fun, and the device is also backwards-compatible with GameBoy Advance games, so you end up with a HUGE library of games to choose from.

Also, its quite cheap, at $129.

The PSP has its winning points too, such as the huge screen and better graphics, but as you say, its still a bit lacking in the games department, even after all this time. And why they didn't go with dual thumbsticks on that thing is beyond me... would've made portable SOCOM and like MUCH better.

Guess it really comes down to what you prefer... graphics or gameplay.


Btw, I'd love it if Apple did a deal with Nintendo to have Game Boy Advance games on the iPhone and touchscreen iPods... you could have touchscreen virtual GBA controls, would be neat.

.

[thehellgate911]

Damn it I can't wait till these things are released!!!

[Alan King]

If the thing runs OSX, it'd be killing me if Apple didnt' allow it to run Safari on wifi at home or on free wifi cyber places so common in big cities nowadays. Probably not Skype cause then it would definitely make no sense to own an IPhone, but wifi, yeah yeah yeah ! So that we could download songs on the road and have a true "IPod on the go".

[Project2501]

Originally Posted by biggulpmark

I don't have any need for many of the iPhone features in an iPod. I don't want to surf the web via an iPod. I have a laptop for that.

What I would love is this: (posted in order of importance)
• Front Row-ish interface for when docked to a TV (i want the ability to navigate the iPod via the remote)
• Widescreen Multi-Touch (a must post-iPhone era)
• The iPhone iPod interface (cover flow)
• The iPhone Photo interface (zoom and rotate)
• 100GB (not that I've ever filled my 60GB with music, but I carry a lot of files with me and often run out of space)

Could do without(but would be nice)
• Wifi for file access (not web, widgets might be cool though)
• Bluetooth (for headphones, remote, other accessories)

LIKE THIS:


That's pretty much it... Not to much to ask is it? All I really want is the Front Row-ish feature. This seems like a pretty big oversight to have not added this to the Video iPod in the first place. I think that could have been done with the current iPod Video hardware.

That is nice consept, but I think that this should be more of the function of universal dock than the iPod feature.

[SactoMan01]

...The following models:

1) iPod shuffle--new 1 GB and 2GB models with a minimal LCD display. It will "dock" in the same fashion as the current shuffle model.

2) iPod nano--no hardware changes, but 2 GB model dropped, 4 GB low end model in silver only, 8 GB "mainstream" model in up to 10 different color cases, and new 16 GB model in black and red case only.

3) iPod video--new model with full touchscreen display that can switch between iPhone-style navigation or Click Wheel navigation. Hard drive choices are 60 and 100 GB hard drives. The device will have physical length, width and depth of current 80 GB 5.5G iPod video to maintain compatibility with current iPod docks.

Sorry, no WiFi or any web-surfing capabilities, since the players are designed specifically for media playback only.

[Vox Barbara]

Originally Posted by Kolchak

But it's got to have the WiFi! I wouldn't even care if it was just 802.11b rather than g or n, and I could live without Bluetooth. Take the damn phone portion, but give me wireless. (Skype wouldn't hurt, either.) They can take the cheap, zoomless camera, too.

Papa needs a new iPod!

You nailed it entirely, the Papa line notwithstanding.

iPod with current iPhone form factor, same user interface (without the phone part),
WiFi, mountable on Macs, can serve as an Apple TV mobile, deal in an eye glimpse.
Make me.

[Alonso Perez]

There is really no point to this thing without WiFi. It should have a microphone as well, for recording. What should (and probably has to) be taken out are what I would call "personal communications" features, such as phone, voicemail, e-mail, and so forth. Obviously Skype could not be supported.

You could do e-mail via Web mail, but this would be uncomfortable for frequent use, with all the zooming and so forth; if anything it would push some people towards the iPhone if they became iPod e-mail dependent.

So, basically an iPhone with no phone or e-mail. The camera can go too, but that's really not important from a cost standpoint.

This device would allow you to browse the Web, watch a movie, or hear music without worrying about being left without communications if your battery goes dead, since you would have a separate phone.

Meanwhile, the iPhone should get a replaceable battery (and this would help differentiate from the iPod X). A real phone needs this.