Apple seeds new Leopard build via Software Update

[AppleInsider]

Apple Inc., which last week asked that developers provide feedback on their experiences using pre-released builds of Mac OS Leopard, has followed up by seeding a significant stability update to the next-generation system software.

The latest seed, labeled Mac OS X Leopard 9A500n, arrived via Leopard's Software Update mechanism as a "recommended" update for all developers running Mac OS X Leopard build 9A499.

In a brief set of release notes, Apple said the 505MB update provides general bug fixes and stability improvements. Developers who've installed the software have responded favorably thus far, reporting that they immediately noticed speed optimizations and improvements to the overall stability of the system.

The release comes just one week after Apple issued a survey that asked developers to compare their experiences using Mac OS X Leopard Build 9A499 and a shipping version of Mac OS X Tiger (10.4.x) in the areas of Mail & Web, Graphics & Media, Setup & Mobility, Desktop & Interface, Productivity & Communication, and Sharing & Devices.

For each category, the company identified a half-dozen areas of user experience in Leopard -- such as "Composing styled HTML mail messages" and "General stability and performance of Mail" -- and asked that developers compare their experience in those areas to Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger via a rating system that spans "Much worse" to "Much better."

Apple has said it plans to launch Leopard sometime in October.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

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[backtomac]

Now we'll find out if Apple will make it by October.

[Mr. Dirk]

They'll make it, but it'll be Oct 29 for sure. "Real artists ship" and all that. Of course, from the time it goes GM to the launch date, 10.5.1 will fix the bugs that should have been fixed for 10.5.0.

[city]

private

[Shaun Wexler]

Tiger wasn't ready for real-world use until 10.4.3, and improved significantly thru 10.4.6, which is IMO the first release of "GM" quality.

[MacTel]

Originally Posted by Shaun Wexler

Tiger wasn't ready for real-world use until 10.4.3, and improved significantly thru 10.4.6, which is IMO the first release of "GM" quality.

They're all like that. Panther was the same but no one really complained too much since it was so much better than Jaguar. IMO, Panther was the first real GM of OSX. All the rest were beta to release candidates.

[MacSuperiority]

Wonder what they cut out. No way it goes from being as buggy as people were saying to very stable from what people are initially reporting this fast without cutting stuff out.

[BWhaler]

Originally Posted by Shaun Wexler

Tiger wasn't ready for real-world use until 10.4.3, and improved significantly thru 10.4.6, which is IMO the first release of "GM" quality.

Agreed. Tiger quality was insanely bad.

I, for one, am not optimistic about Leopard. I thought this was going to be the release to truly embarrass Microsoft and show how far ahead OSX was of Vista. Don't get me wrong, Vista is a train wreck, but the gap is not as revolutionary as I would expect. (Of course, I will take OSX over Vista every day of the week...I am talking about degree of innovation...)

[mrjoec123]

Originally Posted by MacSuperiority

Wonder what they cut out. No way it goes from being as buggy as people were saying to very stable from what people are initially reporting this fast without cutting stuff out.

There were lots of reports about it being buggy, but I found it much more stable than the version released at WWDC. I guess it depends on which apps you're testing on it.

[John French]

Originally Posted by MacTel

They're all like that. Panther was the same but no one really complained too much since it was so much better than Jaguar. IMO, Panther was the first real GM of OSX. All the rest were beta to release candidates.

true enough; Up until Panther OS X seemed no better than OS 9. Tiger wasn't even polished until v10.4.3, but it barely gained any improvement until v10.4.8; the 10.4.6 update was worthwhile, but most of what it had was broken by the evil 10.4.7. IMO, Panther was the first GM of OS X, but It has eventually been outshined by Tiger. OTOH, Leopard (after 4 updates or so) is going to be clearly superior to Tiger in usability. I expect that by 10.5.8 or so It will outshine Tiger completely. By that time...we will have...what? Lion? Lynx? around the corner...

[mrjoec123]

Originally Posted by BWhaler

Agreed. Tiger quality was insanely bad.

I, for one, am not optimistic about Leopard. I thought this was going to be the release to truly embarrass Microsoft and show how far ahead OSX was of Vista. Don't get me wrong, Vista is a train wreck, but the gap is not as revolutionary as I would expect. (Of course, I will take OSX over Vista every day of the week...I am talking about degree of innovation...)

Sometimes I think we all need to take a step back and ask ourselves what we really expect from an operating system upgrade. What exactly could Apple do that would actually make the masses of Mac enthusiasts happy for once? What more do we need beyond what Apple has already given us?

The next revolution in computers won't happen on the Mac Desktop. Everything up until that time is a gradual evolution.

Personally, I think the additions in Leopard are great. Spaces looks like it might be as useful as Expose, which totally changed my workflow when it came out. Time Machine is going to make nightly backups over my wireless home network completely automatic. Back to My Mac is going to be a godsend when I'm at work and wish that I could access my file server at home. The new iChat is going to make troubleshooting my Dad's computer across the country that much easier. And on and on. There's a lot of really good stuff in there. Not to mention that apps seem to launch faster and animations seem more optimized overall.

And don't kid yourself: EVERY OS X release is the release that truly embarrasses Microsoft. Windows got as close as it was ever going to get to the Mac's quality between Windows 95 and 2000. And that's because Apple had pretty much halted all advancement between system 7 and 9. Windows has been dropping back further and further ever since OS X was released, no matter how many issues the first couple of releases of OS X had.

[valanchan]

I'm hoping to get an interface my father would "like" to use. A cross between AppleTV and the iPhone.

We cannot have a static Desktop after we turn it on. To my father it's the same as havinga a CLI cursor blinking away.

[danielsmi]

Originally Posted by mrjoec123

Sometimes I think we all need to take a step back and ask ourselves what we really expect from an operating system upgrade. What exactly could Apple do that would actually make the masses of Mac enthusiasts happy for once? What more do we need beyond what Apple has already given us?

The next revolution in computers won't happen on the Mac Desktop. Everything up until that time is a gradual evolution.

Personally, I think the additions in Leopard are great. Spaces looks like it might be as useful as Expose, which totally changed my workflow when it came out. Time Machine is going to make nightly backups over my wireless home network completely automatic. Back to My Mac is going to be a godsend when I'm at work and wish that I could access my file server at home. The new iChat is going to make troubleshooting my Dad's computer across the country that much easier. And on and on. There's a lot of really good stuff in there. Not to mention that apps seem to launch faster and animations seem more optimized overall.

And don't kid yourself: EVERY OS X release is the release that truly embarrasses Microsoft. Windows got as close as it was ever going to get to the Mac's quality between Windows 95 and 2000. And that's because Apple had pretty much halted all advancement between system 7 and 9. Windows has been dropping back further and further ever since OS X was released, no matter how many issues the first couple of releases of OS X had.

Yeah but those advancements aren't new, well at least to the rest of the computing world. Spaces has been in linux for many years and has been available from MS as a free power toy for XP for years. The Mac finally gets a backup program included in the OS with leopard, it been available on windows since server 2000. the ichat thing is like remote assistance available since at least XP if not server 2000. Leopard is just playing catch up to the features available everywhere else for years. Personally I think it's embarassing for Apple to have waited this to include automatic backup in it OS, I think this is a very important feature. I don't care about stacks plus it kinda reminds me of the windows start button. The downloads folder oooh that's a biggie but vista has one of those too but I don't use it. Translucent menu bar, hmm... seems very similiar to the translucent taskbar in Vista but Apple never takes anything from MS do they, no never. Quick look isn't that the exact same thing as the preview pane in Vista, yeah it is.

[aegisdesign]

Originally Posted by Shaun Wexler

Tiger wasn't ready for real-world use until 10.4.3, and improved significantly thru 10.4.6, which is IMO the first release of "GM" quality.

I've never really had a problem with any version of OSX since 10.2.0 came out. I've read all the reports of things not working, like external firewire drives and stuff like that but it's never effected me. I don't tend to attach weird uncommon peripherals to my Mac though - HP printers, Lacie drives and an epson scanner is about as weird as I get.

Sure, their .0 releases are sometimes a bit ropey for some people but they're usually in a very small minority and it's usually fixed with a .1 update shortly after.

IME, their iLife .0 releases are always the worst, especially when upgrading libraries from the previous version. I won't even touch them until a couple of weeks after release.

Originally Posted by John French

Up until Panther OS X seemed no better than OS 9.

IME the old MacOS was ok back on 68k based Macs where you didn't do much multi tasking, so about MacOS 7.5 was it's zenith. Then it was downhill from there as it just wasn't an OS capable of modern computing, until 10.2, which was the first OSX that was actually fast enough to use and had enough stable apps so that you didn't have to dip in and out of classic.

[aegisdesign]

Originally Posted by danielsmi

Yeah but those advancements aren't new, well at least to the rest of the computing world. Spaces has been in linux for many years and has been available from MS as a free power toy for XP for years. The Mac finally gets a backup program included in the OS with leopard, it been available on windows since server 2000. the ichat thing is like remote assistance available since at least XP if not server 2000. Leopard is just playing catch up to the features available everywhere else for years. Personally I think it's embarassing for Apple to have waited this to include automatic backup in it OS, I think this is a very important feature. I don't care about stacks plus it kinda reminds me of the windows start button. The downloads folder oooh that's a biggie but vista has one of those too but I don't use it. Translucent menu bar, hmm... seems very similiar to the translucent taskbar in Vista but Apple never takes anything from MS do they, no never. Quick look isn't that the exact same thing as the preview pane in Vista, yeah it is.

Spaces - I first used something like that on an AT&T 3B2 in 1986. The remnants of that are in OSX in the UNIX 'screen' command already - try it. Then we got UNIX terminals with X Windows and a virtual screen manager.

Time Machine - Mac has rsync and tar already or even 'Make Archive' in the Finder, Windows has had a backup program since DOS's BACKUP program in DOS 1.0.

Screen Sharing - Apple Remote Desktop first released in the Mac OS 8 days. Or try VNC.

Stacks - a reimplementation of sprung tab windows in MacOS8

Downloads folder - it's just a folder!

Quick Look - Used to be called Quick View in Windows NT 3.1


The point I'm making is that each of these is nothing new if you just look at a feature comparison chart, it's how they are done that is important and that's usually where Apple totally wins - Implementation detail.

[rupert1020]

YOU ARE THE 100'000th VISITOR, BLA BLA

sorry. but please appleinsider remove those utterly stupid adverts !

i mean everybody knows that these ads are not serious ! Please do yourself and me a favour and get rid of them.

thank's

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by MacSuperiority

Wonder what they cut out. No way it goes from being as buggy as people were saying to very stable from what people are initially reporting this fast without cutting stuff out.

If one core feature was buggy, that could affect lots of other features. Say the hardware PDF rendering was buggy, that would affect Mail, Safari and the Finder at least.

I think the previous reports were overly pessimistic, Leopard beta only had minor stability problems IMO. I wouldn't use it day to day but I wouldn't have said the beta was having serious issues.

If this update is significant enough, I don't see why they couldn't ship sooner than the end of October. Software development is like that, if you get the problems solved there's no reason you can't ship early - plus it helps people ignore the fact that it's still 4 months late.

[pinolo]

I have read all replies to the original post. Many in the forum noted that some features (if not all of them) have been implemented on an OS or the other some years ago.

What I would like to know is the following:
What do you think Leopard SHOULD HAVE THAT IT DOESN'T?

I think this would turn out to be a much more interesting topic instead of people pointing out what is not new and where it can be found.

As a footnote I would like to add that Apple is not only known for adding new features, but also (and more importantly so, at least for me) to MAKE THEM ACTUALLY STABLE AND USABLE.

I am happy with the mentioned features in Leopard, not because they are some voodoo that no one ever thought about, but because I will actually be able to use them (opposed to other OSs in which, if you scratch the surface, you have to be an advanced user...)

I am knowledgeable in computers, but I am by no means a "ultra power user". I like features that can be used and that help my workflow. (this is the main reason why I bought a MacBook and not some available alternative).

Ok..
What do I think Leopard should have?
1) Better management of external HD (in order to allow me to use softwares (such as iLife) using data stored on an external HD).
2) Time Machine that doesn't need an external HD (if I want, why not partition the HD in my computer and use that?). Or at least an "on the road temporary time machine" which then stores the backup data in my external HD once I am home and everything is set up.


Other tools, as a touch screen computer (or a bigger "mousing surface with touch screen functions") need much more time to implement and a lot of user teaching. But I would defenitely like to see a computer equipped with a more "tactile" interface compared to the current ones (preferably not using the screen as a surface, but part of the keyboard space).

What do you think?

[steviet02]

Originally Posted by Marvin

I think the previous reports were overly pessimistic, Leopard beta only had minor stability problems IMO. I wouldn't use it day to day but I wouldn't have said the beta was having serious issues.

Kind of a contradictory statement isn't it? I mean, if you wouldn't use it in day to day use, doesn't that imply serious issues?

[Markus1982]

Originally Posted by pinolo

2) Time Machine that doesn't need an external HD (if I want, why not partition the HD in my computer and use that?).

This is already possible with Leopard since the first build including TM.

[Go Banana]

Listen folks, no operating system upgrade or otherwise is going to live up to the lofty expectations set forth by it's eager fans.

Whether you think the feature set in Leopard could've been better or not, it all boils down to this: is Leopard so bad that you've decided to switch to or continue using Windows, Linux, or any other OS out there?

For me, it's still OS X. And it's the latest and greatest version of OS X yet.

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by pinolo

I am knowledgeable in computers,…Time Machine that doesn't need an external HD (if I want, why not partition the HD in my computer and use that?).

So many reasons, e.g.,

• For all the reasons one backs up in the first place
• Required disk space more than doubles
• Like hiring a fox to guard a henhouse

Perhaps a better understanding of the subject is in order.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backup
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Ma...%28software%29
http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits...006/08/15/4995

And of course Apple's own sites

[13013]

I'm putting my big money on the fact that it will be released to the public on October 5th.

10.5 on 10.5.

I can already see all the marketing posters.

[JupiterOne]

Originally Posted by Markus1982

This is already possible with Leopard since the first build including TM.

That's good to hear. I've only heard one report that said you needed an external HD. (Which would have made it useless most of the time for about 1/3 of their hardware line...ie laptops)

[Amorya]

Originally Posted by Abster2core

Perhaps a better understanding of the subject is in order.

I think what many people want from Time Machine is version control, rather than backup. If you look at it in that way, it makes a lot of sense for it to work on a single disk. They want 'backup' in the sense of if they accidentally delete something, rather than to recover from hardware failure.

Amorya

[backtomac]

Originally Posted by Amorya

I think what many people want from Time Machine is version control, rather than backup. If you look at it in that way, it makes a lot of sense for it to work on a single disk. They want 'backup' in the sense of if they accidentally delete something, rather than to recover from hardware failure.

Amorya

That's kinda the way I see it too. I would like to use it that way and continue to clone my hard drive to an external HDD with super duper.

[tink]

While this release has some new "cool" apps, the real stuff is under the hood. 10.5 is a HUGE release and really sets the foundation. Most of the bugs are do to the many many new frame works, the "core' features.

They are squashing bugs left and right and fixing the new ones as they pop up. From what I know Apple hasn't cut out anything and there are only a couple of important apps still giving the engineers some grief (as of last week). Besides that there is lots of work but they are cruzzing. That being said 10.5 could be pretty buggy.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by rupert1020

YOU ARE THE 100'000th VISITOR, BLA BLA

sorry. but please appleinsider remove those utterly stupid adverts !

i mean everybody knows that these ads are not serious ! Please do yourself and me a favour and get rid of them.

thank's

And you're going to make up the lost income for this FREE site by doing what?

[melgross]

Originally Posted by pinolo

I have read all replies to the original post. Many in the forum noted that some features (if not all of them) have been implemented on an OS or the other some years ago.

What I would like to know is the following:
What do you think Leopard SHOULD HAVE THAT IT DOESN'T?

I think this would turn out to be a much more interesting topic instead of people pointing out what is not new and where it can be found.

As a footnote I would like to add that Apple is not only known for adding new features, but also (and more importantly so, at least for me) to MAKE THEM ACTUALLY STABLE AND USABLE.

I am happy with the mentioned features in Leopard, not because they are some voodoo that no one ever thought about, but because I will actually be able to use them (opposed to other OSs in which, if you scratch the surface, you have to be an advanced user...)

I am knowledgeable in computers, but I am by no means a "ultra power user". I like features that can be used and that help my workflow. (this is the main reason why I bought a MacBook and not some available alternative).

Ok..
What do I think Leopard should have?
1) Better management of external HD (in order to allow me to use softwares (such as iLife) using data stored on an external HD).
2) Time Machine that doesn't need an external HD (if I want, why not partition the HD in my computer and use that?). Or at least an "on the road temporary time machine" which then stores the backup data in my external HD once I am home and everything is set up.


Other tools, as a touch screen computer (or a bigger "mousing surface with touch screen functions") need much more time to implement and a lot of user teaching. But I would defenitely like to see a computer equipped with a more "tactile" interface compared to the current ones (preferably not using the screen as a surface, but part of the keyboard space).

What do you think?

A number of those features weren't actually on the older OS. Features that were somewhat similar, but implemented quite differently were there.

OS X has, at least from ver 10.1, been far stabler in the broadest sense than any of the older System versions earlier, such as 6, 7, 8, and 9.

Everything must be understood within this context.

While I've also complained that backups should be allowed on a separate partition of the startup drive, it's only because some people won't buy another drive for backup no matter what you tell them, or how many times they crash and lose setups and data.

However, from Apple's viewpoint, there is the not so little matter of liability. If the startup drive fails, and all backups are lost, then Apple will be subject to another lawsuit. they will say that Apple knew that it wasn't safe to backup on the same drive.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by Go Banana

Listen folks, no operating system upgrade or otherwise is going to live up to the lofty expectations set forth by it's eager fans.

Whether you think the feature set in Leopard could've been better or not, it all boils down to this: is Leopard so bad that you've decided to switch to or continue using Windows, Linux, or any other OS out there?

For me, it's still OS X. And it's the latest and greatest version of OS X yet.

Apple has a problem.

In order to take customers away from the PC industry, it must be like Caesar's wife, more virtuous than everyone else.

If Apple, and its products, software, or hardware, are seen as being no better than what people are using now, Apple's expansion will come to an end.

So will the renaissance in third party hardware and software development.

While the feature set is fine, it must be more stable than Windows for Apple and its supporters to point to it as a viable alternative.

Apple should resist the tug towards release if any outstanding problems aren't resolved.

This is the greatest time in Apple's lifetime as a company to make it back to 10% of the US market, and possibly even significantly greater share, as well as a decent share across the world.

Linux is in turmoil, with the developers of the major distros having no clear path ahead, with their teams in disarray, and the OSes being a couple of years behind schedule.

MS's release is, even in the PC industry, being declared as lame—at best.

But, if Apple rushes product out the door, the window will close, and this time, it will likely be forever.

[Louzer]

Originally Posted by MacSuperiority

Wonder what they cut out. No way it goes from being as buggy as people were saying to very stable from what people are initially reporting this fast without cutting stuff out.

Its just not a question of what they cut out, but also what gets only 'half-done'. Places where the 'feature' is there, but its not configurable (or has no UI at all). I recall the initial implementation of fax capability was laughable at best, an incredibly difficult thing to manage and debug. Or take spotlight. I think a lot of people will agree that there's a lot left to be done with it, and hoping apple makes major improvements to this feature (even if one of those improvements is a switch in the control panel to turn the blasted thing off if you don't want it).

[melgross]

Originally Posted by Louzer

Its just not a question of what they cut out, but also what gets only 'half-done'. Places where the 'feature' is there, but its not configurable (or has no UI at all). I recall the initial implementation of fax capability was laughable at best, an incredibly difficult thing to manage and debug. Or take spotlight. I think a lot of people will agree that there's a lot left to be done with it, and hoping apple makes major improvements to this feature (even if one of those improvements is a switch in the control panel to turn the blasted thing off if you don't want it).

Let us not forget Quartz 2D Extreme.

That was promised as a feature in 10.4, but even two and a half years later, it hasn't made it.

I'm hoping that doesn't happen again. Apple can't afford to duplicate MS's bailing out the ship.

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by steviet02

Kind of a contradictory statement isn't it? I mean, if you wouldn't use it in day to day use, doesn't that imply serious issues?

Nope, I don't think anyone would want to rely on beta software, especially an OS. It's like if you had a beta of say Indesign and it regularly crashed after 4 hours of use. Some people would say it has a serious problem but in the end, it's still usable and the bugs could easily be fairly minor but people wouldn't rely on it.

Contrast Leopard with Vista where even about 8 months after release, some people's peripherals don't work and that's a final release. I'd say that for Leopard being at a beta stage, it is looking pretty good.

If there is such a vast improvement after such a quick update then the bugs have to be minor.

Originally Posted by melgross

Let us not forget Quartz 2D Extreme.

That was promised as a feature in 10.4, but even two and a half years later, it hasn't made it.

Yeah but it looks like they are using EGL, which could be a replacement for that:

http://www.khronos.org/egl/

Suffice to say that PDF rendering is much faster than in Tiger and they are using PDF for the RI interface.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by Marvin

N
Yeah but it looks like they are using EGL, which could be a replacement for that:

http://www.khronos.org/egl/

Suffice to say that PDF rendering is much faster than in Tiger and they are using PDF for the RI interface.

Where have you seen EGL here?

According to their own site, it's not for OS X. At least not being stated as such.

[danielsmi]

Originally Posted by Amorya

I think what many people want from Time Machine is version control, rather than backup. If you look at it in that way, it makes a lot of sense for it to work on a single disk. They want 'backup' in the sense of if they accidentally delete something, rather than to recover from hardware failure.

Amorya

Kind like the previous versions option in Windows or the ability to easily rollback to an older driver if the new one sucks. Seems like all the features you guys want are and have been in Windows.

[bigmig]

Originally Posted by danielsmi

Kind like the previous versions option in Windows or the ability to easily rollback to an older driver if the new one sucks. Seems like all the features you guys want are and have been in Windows.

See aegisdesign's post. It's not a question of whether something vaguely related to the features exists or not (on OS 9, UNIX, Windows, Linux, Xerox ALTO, whatever). It's a question of implementation and usability. If you don't understand (or value) this, then you probably shouldn't bother using a Mac. (assuming you're not just a troll, which is probably a bad assumption to make)

[mrtotes]

Originally Posted by rupert1020

YOU ARE THE 100'000th VISITOR, BLA BLA

sorry. but please appleinsider remove those utterly stupid adverts !

i mean everybody knows that these ads are not serious ! Please do yourself and me a favour and get rid of them.

thank's

Unfortunately they pay for this site and I suspect AI don't have fine control over what is shown. (I often see Crucial advertising more RAM for Vista machines for example). Using only Safari's pop-up blocker is sufficent to get rid of the most annoying.

Originally Posted by city

Don't new products come out on Fridays? That would be October 26, if there were refering to 2007.

Tuesdays are traditional for Apple to release new products.

[yama]

Sigh. Let's make this simple:



Like what others have said above, it's the implementation that's the new feature in Leopard.

Now can we stop this "Windows has had backup software for years" nonsense? Please?

[backtomac]

^^^^

Best post in the whole thread!

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by melgross

Where have you seen EGL here?

According to their own site, it's not for OS X. At least not being stated as such.

There's an EGL framework in the Leopard system that wasn't in Tiger and it contains OpenGL code so it looks to be one and the same.

"EGL can be implemented on multiple operating systems (such as Symbian, embedded Linux, Unix, and Windows)"

OS X is a unix system so it can be easily ported to it.

"OpenVG™ is a royalty-free, cross-platform API that provides a low-level hardware acceleration interface for vector graphics libraries such as Flash and SVG. OpenVG is targeted primarily at handheld devices that require portable acceleration of high-quality vector graphics for compelling user interfaces and text on small screen devices - while enabling hardware acceleration to provide fluidly interactive performance at very low power levels."

Leopard definitely achieves fluidity with minimal resource usage. PDF scrolling is smooth as butter as is coverflow and Apple needed fast rendering of vector graphics for their resolution independent interface.

I noticed that there were lots of mentions about portable devices on the EGL site, which would suggest it was possibly used on the iphone but the OS X 86 project people don't mention EGL in the list of iphone frameworks.

Whatever they're using in Leopard, it's quite clear that 2D rendering is vastly improved so if they haven't implemented QD2D Extreme, it's not necessary.