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#1 |
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Kasper's Automated Slave
Join Date: Nov 1997
Posts: 6,151
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NBC may not renew iTunes contract with Apple - report
NBC Universal, unable to come to an agreement with Apple on pricing, has decided not to renew its contract to sell digital downloads of television shows on iTunes, according to the New York Times.
Citing "a person familiar with the matter," the paper said NBC — which is the No. 1 supplier of digital video to Apple’s digital download service, accounting for about 40 percent of downloads — notified Apple of its decision late yesterday. A spokesman for NBC Universal subsequently confirmed the conglomerate's decision but would not elaborate further. Since the NBC's existing two-year contract with Apple runs through December, its latest decision will not have an immediate impact on the iTunes service. It also leaves the door open for the two forms to reach a new agreement before the current contract expires. For its part, NBC is seeking more control over the pricing of songs and videos that are sold on iTunes. It also wants better piracy controls and for Apple to allow it to bundle videos to increase revenue. NBC Universal is the second major iTunes supplier recently to enter into a standoff with Apple over pricing and packaging matters. In July, the Universal Music Group -- the world’s largest music corporation -- said it would not renew its long-term contract with iTunes and would instead market its music at will (allowing it to remove songs from iTunes on short notice). In its report, the Times suggests that the defiant moves by NBC Universal and Universal Music could embolden other media companies that have been less than thrilled with Apple’s policies. NBC Universal was the second company to sign an agreement with Apple to sell content on iTunes and has since been talking to the company about offering Universal movies. No deal has been reached, however, because of piracy concerns on the part of NBC. The existing contract between Apple and NBC Universal stipulates that Apple receive notice of NBC's plans to cancel 90 days before the expiration date, otherwise the deal would automatically renew. |
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#2 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 502
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Thanks AI
This is one of the few headlines I've seen that doesn't declare NBC is already pulling content from iTunes. Hard to believe how half-baked cnn and the like are with their stories. To read the coverage on other sites you'd think NBC had already taken everything down from iTunes - or that they will definitely do so soon. Reckless reporting on their part.
File Encryption Tools Built Into Your Mac
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#3 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 196
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#4 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 293
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Quote:
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#5 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: london
Posts: 99
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Somehow, I can't see SJ demonstrating the new ipods' video abilities with clips of the Office next week! Maybe he'll announce that they have built-in bittorrent via wifi instead :-)
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#6 |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 293
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This should not come as a suprise to anyone, It is not just NBC, this is all down to the advertisers. The networks are fighting hard to keep a broadcast model that is funded both through advertising as well as purchased content, look at the announcement made by Comedy Central about South Park this week. No matter what revenue they get from sales they cannot afford to lose advertisers.
NBC would like to offer discounted seasons for purchase on iTunes, and i for one would agree with that. I think the prices iTunes charges for a season of a TV show is far too high, and i would imagine most people would agree. Why should a poorer quality downloaded season cost more than a DVD box-set??? Yet there are many examples of this on iTunes. * Apple, dont be so greedy, why not have a fair price for a season of a TV Show (especially one that is years old)? * NBC, dont be so feckin stupid, if we cant buy it from itunes there are plenty of places to download it for free! Is this really what you want? |
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#7 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4
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What "piracy controls"?
I thought Fairplay was pretty successful DRM. What are these enhanced piracy controls NBC wants?
Sounds to me like the headlines should be "NBC Endorses BitTorrent". |
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#8 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Lansing
Posts: 2,513
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Do you really think NBC wants LOWER prices and apple won't agree? I haven't read any of the news reports so maybe that's the case, but I have to say that seems far-fetched.........
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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#9 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: london
Posts: 99
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Quote:
It's not about Apple being greedy, it's about the networks being as blind as the music industry and not recognising that 20th century business models won't work anymore. Rather than coming up with an innovative way to make money, they are desperately clinging to their anachronistic practices. |
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#10 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 54
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#11 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,218
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All of this sounds like pre-negotiation noise......
NBC needs Apple as much, if not more, than the other way around. It is a close-to-last-place major network that is seeking traction. The parent company GE is watching closely for any missteps. If they dump a major distribution channel that offers it a future growth opportunity, I am sure that Mr. Immelt will have a word or two for NBC's leadership. That said, I don't see why NBC shouldn't have greater say over bundling or repricing its content. The iTunes store has become an incoherent clutter anyway (compared to its original simplicity and elegance), and it is not clear to me that adding things such as bundling (or even differential pricing) will add much to the mess that it has already become. Just add two extra icons/links to the millions already there: "Bundles" and "Not $1.99." No one will notice. |
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#12 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 136
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Send well thought out email to
NBCUniSupport@nbcuni.com If you want content to remain on-line include information on age, why you buy content from iTunes, circumstances that cause you to buy content from iTs, why you like the iTunes interface. I do want NBC Universal to figure out why iTs is the top dog in selling on-line tv content. |
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#13 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London
Posts: 192
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Quote:
Is that why they're starting their own service? http://www.hulu.com/ |
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#14 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,929
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I don't understand the NBCs position on this. It seems to me that they are negotiating from a position of weakness. I can hear SJ talking to the NBC guys now; "there's this thing called BitTorrent. Have you heard of it?'
iPods will sell. NBC and the other studios can get on iTunes and make some money off the iPod train or they can get steamrolled by it. I wonder if the NBC guys heard of the Sony Connect Store? |
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#15 |
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Banned
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London
Posts: 192
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#16 |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 293
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#17 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,395
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Quote:
NBC can't win, apple has all the leverage. Just look at it this way: 1 NBC goes on their own 2 NBC has to tell stockholders that profits are down 3 Stockholders: "Why?" 4 NBC: "iTunes revenues are gone and hulu revenues come nowhere close to replacing that lost revenue" 5 Stockholders tear NBC a new one 6 NBC goes groveling back to apple and signs with itunes again |
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#18 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 293
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Quote:
NBC are not talking from a point of weakness, they own the content that people want to buy. ITunes is the store, if the shelves are empty customers stop coming. I would say NBC are in a position of strengh and it does not take a genius to see how this will pan out. If (and it is looking like a big If) iTunes are to continue selling NBC Programming next year then it will be on NBC's terms. |
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#19 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,395
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Quote:
And NBC has had many of the lowest ranked shows for the last couple years, with a couple exceptions like Heroes, their ratings have been awful. With a lineup as bad as theirs, will people miss them much? |
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#20 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 293
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Quote:
iTunes was just a first step for NBC into the digital distribution market, they realise that illegal downloads are taking their global market away. They are trying other things to rectify this, some are working, for instance there is a big move to start showing US shows overseas almost exactly in line with the US to combat the need for illegal downloads. But iTunes was just a step, an experiment, NBC still need the advertisers, the move to show all programming free of charge on their own website with advertising is one that all broadcast companies are moving to to keep the advertisers happy. Like it or not the TV market is moving away from Steve Jobs's vision, for once Apple seem to have backed the wrong horse. Last edited by murphyweb; 08-31-2007 at 11:40 AM.. |
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#21 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 293
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Quote:
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#22 |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 98
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This further asserts Apple's standing in the market. Content holders and competitors are coming at them from all sides.
I think NBC should try to go it alone. If hulu succeeds, then Apple might have to adjust. If not, Apple will have some hand against NBC. I'm not really worried about Apple. If anything, they're forcing content holders to shift and twitch more than they had in their history. |
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#23 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London
Posts: 192
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Quote:
And "hulu.com" is a joint venture between NBC and News Corp. (Fox). So that's two major networks, dozens of cable networks, a film company, and a music company poised to jump ship. ![]() |
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#24 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,395
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Quote:
Let's see, apple loses the network that has been worst in the ratings for the last couple years, which pretty much boils down to Heroes, BSG, and the thursday night comedy shows, of which the office sells well, but ratings for all four have been awful. Just look at the NBC page in iTunes and see how many of the shows there have ben cancelled! Not to mention that NBC screws themselves by giving up the chance to have episodes of new shows (which need all the help they can get) on iTunes for free to gain awareness. And what does apple still have? The CSI shows, Lost, Grey's, Housewives, Betty, 24, Survivor, Southpark, plus plenty of other cable stuff. Those are virtually all of the highest rated shows of the last few years. Yet losing NBC means "empty shelves"? |
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#25 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,929
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Quote:
The reality is that there are ways to get content on your iPod without the studios making any money. |
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#26 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 241
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I believe we've been through this posturing before. Apple makes money selling hardware, specifically iPods in this case, and until this past year the iTunes distribution model was a loss leader for selling the iPods. I think I read earlier this year that Apple was finally breaking even on sales of iTunes music to cover the cost of maintaining the iTunes infrastructure.
If that's still the case, what possible leverage do these content providers have over Apple? Unless they all get together to remove the millions of available tracks in iTunes, I don't see a content availability vacuum developing. The cost of setting up and maintaining the distribution infrastructure has been the Achilles heal of all the other attempted online distribution models since iTunes started up. By Apple insisting on keeping the prices down, the other startups couldn't charge enough to break even and compete with the iTunes store, and eventually dropped out of the game, while Apple continued to chug away making enough of a profit on the sale of iPods tied to the iTunes store to cover the losses it incurred. So, the open question is whether customers are willing to pay a sufficiently higher rate for content from the upcoming Hulu site, or others, to make them viable. That's an open question. With DVDs available for purchase and ripping to digital content for home online access, why would anyone pay extra to download the content online from a proprietary online store? What DRM model are they doing to use and what compatibility issues will that cause? With 100 million iPods in distribution, critical mass has been achieved, so any offering that's not 100% compatible with those iPods is certain death. It should be interesting watching this develop over the coming year. Apple is currently firing on all cylinders (which is quite refreshing after years in the doldrums), so I wouldn't discount them in this skirmish.
- Dave Marsh
iMac Intel 24" 2.8GHz x 2, MacBook Air 1.8GHz |
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#27 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London
Posts: 192
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Quote:
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#28 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,218
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Quote:
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#29 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,929
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Quote:
People choose to use iPods. That's a difference that escapes a lot of people. I expect users will continue to buy iPods. How they get content may change. Apple gives artists and the studios a chance to make money off of their content. BitTorrent does not. And no I don't think Hulu is going to attract a lot of users. |
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#30 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 89
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Quote:
Also, while everyone touts how much content they have as being better is kind of a lost leading statement. Having quantity is not always better, it is just is more crap to wade through before you pick out the quality product. it's kind of like going to a big shopping mall and only finding a couple of items worth purchasing. What's really sad is that is little emphasis on quality and substance and more emphasis on the "show" or the controversy of a song/movie/TV show. Personally, they could have Seinfeld, Cosby Show, Mash, Taxi, and a few others and I would be happy. Most of the TV shows out there are worth watching twice, let alone once. But that's just me. |
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#31 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,395
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Glad to see I'm making some progress.
![]() Quote:
And iTunes accounts for 76% of digital video content sold online. Do the math, both companies will take a hit from this, but NBC will take a bigger one. And people will still keep buying iPods, they'll just pirate their TV shows instead of paying NBC for them. Do you honestly see NBC making as much money with an in-house video download scheme, whether it's sales or free with ads as they make now from iTunes? And do you honestly think piracy of NBC/UNI content won't go up after pulling from iTunes? Those are the questions that really matter in this case. |
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#32 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 89
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Oops, I mean most TV shows AREN"T worth watching twice, let alone once. :-)
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#33 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,700
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Well, whatever happens, the simple fact of the matter is that the harder and less available whatever the legally distributed content is, all that potential revenue, no matter how "low it is because Apple is screwing us" -- all that significant revenue just goes down the toilet due to BitTorrent. One day the content owners will "get it".
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#34 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,700
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That is not to say new initiatives like Hulu.Com won't be useful, or that piracy enforcement won't succeed. But iTunes Store is clearly by far the most successful legal digital distribution system out there. Studios breaking off from something sensible and centralised will hurt them in the long run. Look at BluRay and HD-DVD.
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#35 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 196
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Quote:
iTunes is by far the best online media content distrubtor on the web. Still, you can be assured that iTunes will be tested like this in the future. |
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#36 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,395
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Apple has now released a press release in which they claim that NBC wanted a price hike that would have put episodes at $4.99 each.
If hulu goes with that sort of pricing, they're dead from day one. Game over. Might as well just send their content straight to the pirates and get it over with. And they're on crack if they think they can get advertising revenues at that level. Have they announced whether hulu will be free with ads or paid? Streaming only, or downloads? I wouldn't be surprised if it's paid AND ads. |
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#37 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 8,453
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Quote:
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield, and government to gain ground."
—Thomas Jefferson Proud AAPL stock owner. |
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#38 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 8,453
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Quote:
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield, and government to gain ground."
—Thomas Jefferson Proud AAPL stock owner. |
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#39 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,395
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Quote:
NBC can certainly sell ads for "hulu" but their actual revenue will depend on viewership. I doubt their viewership will be as high with hulu as it is with iTunes, and I doubt they can get per-viewer rates as high as the cut they were getting from iTunes. We'll see. As for selling content, they could sell downloadable shows, but I doubt they'd sell ones with a copy protection system compatible with iTunes. And if they charge $4.99 per TV episode, their sales will plummet. |
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#40 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 395
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Quote:
Maybe we'll see another short-term "at-will" agreement instead. [edit] Nope, Apple confirmed that they are totally parting ways. Oh well. As a Canadian, I'd never had access to any of NBC Universal's content through iTunes to begin with, since the only video content the iTunes Canada Store serves up is music videos and movie trailers. [/edit] Last edited by lfmorrison; 08-31-2007 at 03:20 PM.. |
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