Jobs says Apple won't offer refunds to early iPhone adopters

[AppleInsider]

Many of Apple's most loyal customers are feeling taken by the company after it announced an unprecedented 33 percent price cut on its iPhone handset after just two months on the market, but chief executive Steve Jobs in an interview Wednesday said that's just the tough luck of technology.

Asked what he would say to customers who just bought a new iPhone for $599, Jobs told USA Today that his company's move is just an unfortunately reality of the cut-throat technology world in which we all entangle ourselves.

"If they bought it this morning, they should go back to where they bought it and talk to them," he said. "If they bought it a month ago, well, that's what happens in technology."

Jobs went on to say that Apple's high-volume manufacturing will prevent it from taking a considerable hit on costs following the $200 price reduction.

"We're also willing to be more aggressive. We think we have a real winner, and customers love the iPhone," he explained. "The product's been extremely well accepted; we want to put the pedal to the metal. A holiday season is approaching; we'd have to wait another year for another one."

In the meantime, however, Apple's dramatic iPhone price cut has drawn the ire of thousands of its most faithful customers, many of which waited hours on long lines in late June to fork over what now seems to be an unreasonable fee for being amongst the iPhone elite.

In fact, the move has sparked an outright rebellion in the Apple support forums, where discussion threads filled with hate mail are piling up faster than Apple can delete them. One customer created a thread to note that Apple in a matter of hours had managed to delete over 2,200 customer complaints only to watch that very thread become victim to censorship itself.

"The more the day goes by, the more furious I become," wrote VSiskos in "1 Million People Slapped In The Face Today," one of the forum threads still standing as of Wednesday evening.

Under's Apple's standard return policy, customers who bought a product within 14 days of a price reduction can ask to be reimbursed the difference, and some Apple stores have reportedly done the same for iPhones purchased earlier than that.

But as Philip Elmer-DeWitt blogs for Business 2.0, those random acts of flexibility seem only to have further inflamed the wounded feelings of those who weren't extended the same courtesy.

"They told me to shove it," wrote tulanejosjh. "14 days or nothing."

"Same here," added jmolina1313. "The guy treated me like I was on drugs!"

Many customers seeking refunds on Wednesday reported being treated rudely, which is not something you often hear about Apple employees and quite a contrast to the scene in the same stores two months ago.

"The last time I walked into an Apple Store there were lines of employees clapping and giving high fives to congradulate us on the wise decision to buy an iPhone," wrote ck2875. "I wonder if going back for this would be similar?"

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[CREB]

Where Jobs went wrong with this launch, and the lowering of the iPhone price, is that he had nothing to trump the existing iPhone as its replacement or a newer model. Other than that why are people so pissed? Get over it already.

[bdkennedy1]

I think almost 1 million people learned a valuable lesson about impulse buying.

[syklee26]

if you bought iPhone on Tuesday, then I feel your pain (you can probably get $200 back though).

but if you bought iPhone like 2 months ago, then what da hell is there to complain about? it is so obvious that Apple shouldn't be giving refunds. maybe I should ask for refunds on some of the macs I bought which went down in price after 2-3 years.

I don't see anything wrong with what Jobs is doing here.

[Joseph_xxl]

All of the “Wahhhhh I bought my iphone first so I’m out 200 bucks” post are great comic relief. -- By the by people threatening to leave Apple as customers will quickly replaced by new Mac fans as soon as these great new devices are released. We’ll let you know how Leopard is in Oct

[halhiker]

Note to self: Tech prices now are dropping faster than ever. Wait two months and save 33% on hot selling products.

I've really been waiting for a MacBook Pro and now that prices are falling fast I think I'll just wait for it to go from $2495.00 to $1750.00. And you know, since it's actually been out for a while they might even drop the price all the way to $1495.00. I know the price drop is coming so I'll just wait until it does to buy ANY more Apple products.

If Apple sees a big drop in sales in the coming months it's because customers are waiting for the big drop in price.

That's technology!

Hal

[Eduardo]

"Many customers seeking refunds on Wednesday reported being treated rudely, which is not something you often hear about Apple employees and quite a contrast to the scene in the same stores two months ago."

That is an opinion-not a factual statement.

The times I've gone to the Apple Store I've had my fair share of problems with indifferent, sometimes clue less people who carry a streak of arrogance. So much so that I try to actually deal with Apple Store people as little as possible (which is hard).

[mrjoec123]

Originally Posted by syklee26

if you bought iPhone on Tuesday, then I feel your pain (you can probably get $200 back though).

but if you bought iPhone like 2 months ago, then what da hell is there to complain about? it is so obvious that Apple shouldn't be giving refunds. maybe I should ask for refunds on some of the macs I bought which went down in price after 2-3 years.

I don't see anything wrong with what Jobs is doing here.

I think the press, eager as it always has been to write anything negative about the iPhone, is making a big deal out of nothing. Even if there really are "thousands" of upset loyal Apple fans, that means there are hundreds of thousands of loyal Apple fans like myself who aren't upset at all. Once again, the vocal minority gives the impression that the sky is falling.

The only mistake Apple made is announcing the price drop on the day of the event, instead of waiting a day or two to allow some positive press for all the cool new iPod releases. This morning I'm reading a lot more about blogs and user forums full of typical Apple fanboy babies upset about a price drop (since when is a price drop a bad thing in any industry?) than I am about the all-new nano (which is cheaper than its predecessor, by the way) or the touch, or the Wi-Fi iTunes announcement, etc.

Knowing what I now know about the price drop, if I could go back in time I still wouldn't wait ten weeks to buy an iPhone. I'm guessing most other iPhone users would say the same thing.

$200 is a night or two out at a nice restaurant. I'll take ten weeks of iPhone ownership over that any day of the week.

I honestly think that Apple's "loyal customers" are its worst enemies. Always crying over spilled milk and giving the rest of the world the false impression of poor customer satisfaction. And the press just eats that up.

[Moukkis]

2 weeks of grace time to get a refund is a token of respect towards customers. Not all companies would have done even that. You shouldn't treat a privilege as a right.

Had I just bought the iPhone three weeks ago, I would probably feel disappointed and slightly angry, but up until last night I would have been thinking I made the best deal ever happily iPhoning away.

And love the new iPods. Apart from iChub I must see in real life first.

[onceuponamac]

So – if the group that paid $499 or $599 is really upset – why not act together to show apple our frustration. Assuming we had the discipline – we could not purchase any new apple products for 12 – 18 months. Presumably, the 300,000 or so of us that acquired iPhones and aren’t within the window to obtain a refund are mostly early adopters – I’m the owner of a variety of mac products including a g5 iMac, intel core duo imac, core2duo 17” macbook pro, many airport expresses, several airport extremes, a mac mini, each generation of ipod (including a nano and a shuffle), several apple TV’s and, of course, an iphone. If we exercise our power as a group – we might get more respect from Apple. Think about it this way – there must be a lawyer among us – shouldn’t there be a legal argument under a construct of bad faith that apple and ATT violated their commitments and promises to us by not introducing promised upgrades (based on public statements by Apple and ATT to be distributed shortly after the introduction of the iPhone) – hence, allowing us to void our contracts with ATT with no further obligation for a contract breakage fee? Apple has demonstrated by it’s price decrease today that the period to meet commitments is something less than 3 months – it hasn’t provided any meaningful upgrades that don’t require a separate purchase (new iLife). Probably a smart lawyer among us could develop a legal basis for canceling our contracts with ATT even without Apple and ATT’s failure to meet their promises of service and device upgrades, given we paid in full for our devices and received no other meaningful consideration from ATT in exchange for entering into our contracts. If 300,000 (or even 170,000 of us) cancel our ATT contracts and acquire the hack to use the devices on other networks – we would demonstrate the organized power of the consumer and gain some attention given the lost revenue to ATT and Apple would be a multiple of the contract commitments that they failed to meet their commitments on. Of course, our nature as early adopters, suggests the discipline to punish Apple for a year or more is difficult – but as a group we have substantial purchasing power – simply aggregate our ATT contract commitments for two years times some number between 170k and 300k. My own view (which is that of a layman, but close follower of Apple’s product developments) is that Apple has over diversified it’s line up of ipods – I doubt the hard disk ipod will garner much in new sales – the iTouch may sell – but not if they introduce a 3G iPhone in the next 60 days. My own experience is that I use the extended features of the iPhone when I’m within distance of a wifi connection but don’t use them on the GSM network because it’s painfully slow – I’ll be much more upfront about this with other potential consumers given Apple’s act of bad faith yesterday.

[ZagMac]

Originally Posted by syklee26

I don't see anything wrong with what Jobs is doing here.

Totally agree. When are people going to start realizing that they need to match the price they pay for something to value they will get out of it? Period. What something costs in a day, a week or a year has zero relevance. Yes, there is an emotional pull when the change happens. But what doesn't change is the assesment the person should have made at the time: Cost Vs. Perceived Value

Does that mean you have to smile and be happy about it? Of course not. Especially when the drop is bigger and faster than anything else from Apple (or most other tech companies) has been. But the core principals we must all use when buying anything did not change with yesterday's news. So vent that and move on. When I read words like "cheated" or "stolen from" or "insulted", I am reminded that even Apple's wonderfully 10X smarter than the PC-drones customers still have a large number of small-minded children among them.

Although I do like the precedent here...going to leave work early to call my high school girlfriend and explain why she owes me more sex since I've heard she puts out like crazy now and never gave it up for me (no, I'm not 100% certain the analogy is the same, but I'm willing to give it a shot).

<Sorry for calling anyone a child. I'm not a fan of the shotgun insult, but this groundswell has me annoyed. I'm not an Apple-defender; I just don't react well to situations where critical thinking is missing>

[padrongus]

I didn't have any problems or was I treated rudely - actually they were quite nice about it.

I called Apple yesterday requested an RMA for my refurbished 4GB model I bought last week and was emailed the Fedex return label. I then went to my local store and bought a new 8GB at the new price. Don't wait and don't feel bad - business is business and money is money. I love the iPhone but if I can get a better one at the same or better price - then why not.

[tripo]

Originally Posted by halhiker

Note to self: Tech prices now are dropping faster than ever. Wait two months and save 33% on hot selling products.

I've really been waiting for a MacBook Pro and now that prices are falling fast I think I'll just wait for it to go from $2495.00 to $1750.00. And you know, since it's actually been out for a while they might even drop the price all the way to $1495.00. I know the price drop is coming so I'll just wait until it does to buy ANY more Apple products.

That's technology!

Hal

true!
I feel like stucked .. because i've been waiting for the right release like .. for ages.
I just can't understand why is it that the MacBook Pros have the monster- DVI interface ,and the iMacs the mini DVIs .. ,
Just think about this ... magnet - safe power plug .. ok ! and that .. a f$*(ed up DVI with srews .. WTF mate !
and no NAND flash buffer!?
and HELL THERE IS NO more a powerful mobile machine .. since PB 12 !? can't wait any longer ,cupertino !

[gilles_deleuze]

Strictly speaking, there's not much merit to argue one feels price-gouged when one's agreed to pay that price in the first place.

That said, if you bought it within the past two weeks, just call Apple. You should be able to get a refund. Otherwise, just return and get a new one.

Also, if you used an Amex to purchase, they have a price-match policy for 60 days. Other credit cards may have similar policies.

I bought on June 29th so am kinda out of luck.

[Moukkis]

Originally Posted by ZagMac

T...going to leave work early to call my high school girlfriend and explain why she owes me more sex since I've heard she puts out like crazy now and never gave it up for me

Actually... considering an earlier post, bring a lawyer and all other "users" who might feel the same

[CREB]

Originally Posted by onceuponamac

So – if the group that paid $499 or $599 is really upset – why not act together to show apple our frustration.

I have a better idea...why don't you sell your iPhone and recoup some of your supposed losses?

[britwithgoodteeth]

Originally Posted by mrjoec123

I think the press, eager as it always has been to write anything negative about the iPhone..

Yeah, the press has been real tough on Apple the past few years.

[SpamSandwich]

Originally Posted by bdkennedy1

I think almost 1 million people learned a valuable lesson about impulse buying.

It's a shame we live in a nation of crybabies.

[S10]

Originally Posted by halhiker

Note to self: Tech prices now are dropping faster than ever. Wait two months and save 33% on hot selling products.

I've really been waiting for a MacBook Pro and now that prices are falling fast I think I'll just wait for it to go from $2495.00 to $1750.00. And you know, since it's actually been out for a while they might even drop the price all the way to $1495.00. I know the price drop is coming so I'll just wait until it does to buy ANY more Apple products.

If Apple sees a big drop in sales in the coming months it's because customers are waiting for the big drop in price.

That's technology!

Hal

Hello? we're talking iPhone here.. it's a phone... not a computer... not an mps player.. not a game console...phone prices drop much fatser than anything else in the electronic industry.. why? because they produce so many of them, production costs go down much faster.

[freeny]

The ironic thing for me is that Im not all that upset about the price cut after buying an iPhone the first day (I knew the risks) but am instead still shocked at the microscopic video storage space on the new "touch" after waiting so long for it to be released.

Go figure

[steviet02]

Originally Posted by Eduardo

"Many customers seeking refunds on Wednesday reported being treated rudely, which is not something you often hear about Apple employees and quite a contrast to the scene in the same stores two months ago."

That is an opinion-not a factual statement.

The times I've gone to the Apple Store I've had my fair share of problems with indifferent, sometimes clue less people who carry a streak of arrogance. Somuch so that I try to actually deal with Apple Store people as little as possible (which is hard).

Although I wonder what kind of attitude some of these people tying to get a refund showed up with.

[dontlookleft]

Originally Posted by onceuponamac

I’m the owner of a variety of mac products including a g5 iMac, intel core duo imac, core2duo 17” macbook pro, many airport expresses, several airport extremes, a mac mini, each generation of ipod (including a nano and a shuffle), several apple TV’s and, of course, an iphone.

You lost everyone after that. I'm glad you're out 200 bucks. Literally joyous.

I wish i had enough money to own that crap...and if I did, I wouldn't care about my 200 bucks. Sounds like pocket change for you.

Although price drops aren't usually that close around the corner, you know they're in sight somewhere down the line. Wait it out, I'm sure one of your macs can hold you over.

[Thataboy]

I bought my iPhone on July 9.

In what alternate reality do I deserve a price refund for a 2-month old purchase?? Anyone who is whining about the price cut should be dragged to the public square and stoned to death with Zunes.

I'm sorry, but most people who spent $600 on a phone the minute it came out -- well, $200 is probably not the end of the world to them. You didn't LOSE $200... Apple didn't steal money from you -- you made a decision that the iPhone was worth $600 to you. Honestly, some people have the most obscene sense of entitlement!

My only personal sadness about it is that this will severely lower whatever I'd get on eBay for my 1G iPhone when the 2G comes out... doh! But I don't regret having paid the "early adopter tax" -- I knew what I was getting into, and I have loved every last second of my iPhone ownership

[lkrupp]

"This morning I'm reading a lot more about blogs and user forums full of typical Apple fanboy babies upset about a price drop (since when is a price drop a bad thing in any industry?) "

It has been clear for some time that Apple no longer needs the "fanboy babies" to be successful. They just haven't caught on yet. Hell hath no fury like a fanboy (or fangirl) scorned but they are now irrelevant. And to ad insult to injury the "faithful" have tied themselves financially and emotionally to Apple for decades, so much so that they really have no choice but to stay the course. I mean what are they going to do, start buying Dells with Vista and live with inferior hardware and software? Would they cut off their noses in order to spite their faces? May be few, really zealous, self-mutilating die-hards will (and be forever depressed). Most will get over it.

[GQB]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Many customers seeking refunds on Wednesday reported being treated rudely, which is not something you often hear about Apple employees and quite a contrast to the scene in the same stores two months ago.

Hmmmm... If the folks storming the Apple stores for refunds on their 1 mo + old units are displaying the same degree of civility they're showing on this forum, then I'm guessing that the store employees are exhibiting abnormal restraint in not suggesting a novel storage location for their iPhones.

I will admit tho', that Jobs miscalculated in understanding the anger potential for a quasi-religious user base who thinks Apple is in the shareware business.

You paid for the thrill of being first. $200 well spent. We all saw the ear to ear grins on your faces as you raced out of Apple Stores in June. It was a religious event, and you tithed appropriately.

Recognize that the price drop will benefit you by expanding the user base and therefore response to demand for features.

[freeny]

Originally Posted by onceuponamac

So – if the group that paid $499 or $599 is really upset – why not act together to show apple our frustration. Assuming we had the discipline – we could not purchase any new apple products for 12 – 18 months. Presumably, the 300,000 or so of us that acquired iPhones and aren’t within the window to obtain a refund are mostly early adopters – I’m the owner of a variety of mac products including a g5 iMac, intel core duo imac, core2duo 17” macbook pro, many airport expresses, several airport extremes, a mac mini, each generation of ipod (including a nano and a shuffle), several apple TV’s and, of course, an iphone. If we exercise our power as a group – we might get more respect from Apple. Think about it this way – there must be a lawyer among us – shouldn’t there be a legal argument under a construct of bad faith that apple and ATT violated their commitments and promises to us by not introducing promised upgrades (based on public statements by Apple and ATT to be distributed shortly after the introduction of the iPhone) – hence, allowing us to void our contracts with ATT with no further obligation for a contract breakage fee? Apple has demonstrated by it’s price decrease today that the period to meet commitments is something less than 3 months – it hasn’t provided any meaningful upgrades that don’t require a separate purchase (new iLife). Probably a smart lawyer among us could develop a legal basis for canceling our contracts with ATT even without Apple and ATT’s failure to meet their promises of service and device upgrades, given we paid in full for our devices and received no other meaningful consideration from ATT in exchange for entering into our contracts. If 300,000 (or even 170,000 of us) cancel our ATT contracts and acquire the hack to use the devices on other networks – we would demonstrate the organized power of the consumer and gain some attention given the lost revenue to ATT and Apple would be a multiple of the contract commitments that they failed to meet their commitments on. Of course, our nature as early adopters, suggests the discipline to punish Apple for a year or more is difficult – but as a group we have substantial purchasing power – simply aggregate our ATT contract commitments for two years times some number between 170k and 300k. My own view (which is that of a layman, but close follower of Apple’s product developments) is that Apple has over diversified it’s line up of ipods – I doubt the hard disk ipod will garner much in new sales – the iTouch may sell – but not if they introduce a 3G iPhone in the next 60 days. My own experience is that I use the extended features of the iPhone when I’m within distance of a wifi connection but don’t use them on the GSM network because it’s painfully slow – I’ll be much more upfront about this with other potential consumers given Apple’s act of bad faith yesterday.

The return button is your friend

[jawporta]

Come on people, those who bought it when it first came out did it to be "The first" Everyone knew the price would drop sooner or later. I have friends that never owned a Mac in their life and said "I'll wait to the price drops" Even the iPod dropped in price, the 5GB iPod was $500, then $400. I'm guessing they just feel like fools for not having patients.

Look at it this way, the first two months paid for the development and the marketing. Now that thats all paid up, here's the price break.

Here's another tip, a 16GB model is around the corner so don't be shocked. How do I know? There's a 16GB iPod Touch.

[timaging]

this is NOTHING compared to when I bought my apple cinema display for something like 3k and it went down to 1899 2 weeks later.

200 seems like chump change.

[zoskia]

I really just don't get all these people. Like many people said before me: price didn't drop from 600 to 400, it dropped from about 2000 to 1800. Look at it this way. What most people forget is that this is a phone selling in a mobile phone market where things work different. Don't be surprised to see more price drops in the future. Phones go from several hundred dollars to zero in a matter of months all the time. Didn't see anyone ever complain about that.
In my opinion the real reason why people are angry now is because they bought it to be cool. It was probably the most desired device on the planet at the time. And now after a couple of weeks the cool factor wears off suddenly. I am pretty sure that more than half of the first adopters don't need a smart phone or don't use any other feature apart from text, calls and music.
Guys, you paid 600$ for a phone!

[SpamSandwich]

Originally Posted by GQB

Hmmmm... If the folks storming the Apple stores for refunds on their 1 mo + old units are displaying the same degree of civility they're showing on this forum, then I'm guessing that the store employees are exhibiting abnormal restraint in not suggesting a novel storage location for their iPhones.

I will admit tho', that Jobs miscalculated in understanding the anger potential for a quasi-religious user base who thinks Apple is in the shareware business.

You paid for the thrill of being first. $200 well spent. We all saw the ear to ear grins on your faces as you raced out of Apple Stores in June. It was a religious event, and you tithed appropriately.

Recognize that the price drop will benefit you by expanding the user base and therefore response to demand for features.

Best summary of the situation yet. Tick off the religious zealots (George Lucas should have served as a warning, Steve) and you'll get burned at the stake.

[GQB]

Originally Posted by S10

Hello? we're talking iPhone here.. it's a phone... not a computer..

Umm, no, it is a computer.

[Wally]

As someone stated (perhaps Daniel Eran)... the iPhone was announced at $599 in January... right? So people saw the value that the iPhone had at that price point. Now just because the price drops $200 doesn't mean that it's actually worth less, unless people are having a bad experience with the product and it didn't live up to the hype - which from what I've read is not the case.

Just watch - there will be a class action lawsuit... i just friggin' know it.

[ascii]

Cellphones are for people who are so dependent on others, so ill-at-ease with themselves, they can't even go for a quiet 5-minute walk without someone to talk to.

Therefore all those who bought the expensive iPhone must be mentally weak or guilty people and won't ulitmately make much of a fuss for fear of their guilt being exposed.

[freeny]

Originally Posted by Wally

Just watch - there will be a class action lawsuit... i just friggin' know it.

True, but on what grounds?

[onceuponamac]

Originally Posted by CREB

I have a better idea...why don't you sell your iPhone and recoup some of your supposed losses?

doing that wouldn't exact any pain on apple or ATT. fanboys and fangirls shouldn't act like sheep - i wonder if apple will miss it's earnings - it must be close to doing so to require such a dramatic price drop. i hope they make a lot of the hard drvie version ipods and get stuck with them in inventory.

[NVRsayNVR]

If you were a TRUE technology buff, you would have known this was coming. How else does Apple or any other company reach that second and third tier of consumers who just will not bite at the "early adopter" pricing.

The price change just happens to have timed out the way it did with sales of the iPhone reaching the incredible figure beyond 1Mil and an aggressive move by Apple to increase these numbers further during this holiday season.

You can bet that Apple will introduce another "Higher End" unit with more memory after the holiday season to keep the sales pipe flowing. It's just the way things are when a company wants (and deserves) to own a particular market segment.

We ALL pay the price for early adoption until mass production kicks in and prices fall.

[emig647]

I don't see how "this was an act of bad faith"...

There are many factors involved with this... mainly that apple has sold almost 1 million phones the the places they get their parts for the phones may have cut them a deal, since they are selling quicker than anticipated. This is the definition of technology. Everyone here should understand it better than most. Why is it so hard to understand that demand / sales drives prices down. Driving prices down increases sales. It's been like this since the start of Industry / technology. Go take an economics class and get over it. Apple could sell the iPhone for 199 if they wanted to, just to increase sales. $599 was a lot of money for a "phone". If you were one to buy the first day you were more than happy to spend your $599 because you felt the phone was worth it. Prices drop all the time. Try and keep up with it. I remember dvd burners dropping from 250 -> 75 within 4 months. That's a HUGE price drop. What about when dvd burners were 750!!! How do you think those guys felt.

The point is here, that companies can choose to do what they want to do. Perhaps it wasn't feasible at the time to cut down to 399 on the iPhone. Now after selling ~900k of them they can afford it since their prices on parts have gone down.

After introducing the iPod touch, if they kept the prices on the iPhone at $599, the iPod touch sales would have REALLY cut into it. And there is no way they could have sold the iPod touch for $499. Why is this so hard to see? I've never seen such whinning over a price cut. Usually people rejoice when apple price cuts. This is all insanity.

[onceuponamac]

Originally Posted by freeny

True, but on what grounds?

fraudulent inducement and contract breach - ATT's the only one that really seems at risk - but that would require people to seek to void their contracts - if apple has some sort of make whole to ATT in the event of a migration away from iphone accounts for iphones sold at $499 and $599 then apple would suffer as well... of course, any pain would require people to do something!

[Bacillus]

We are the few, the proud, the iFools. Its not the money, its the idea that we iPhone early adopters were played like a fiddle; like lemmings we were.

[CREB]

Originally Posted by onceuponamac

doing that wouldn't exact any pain on apple or ATT. fanboys and fangirls shouldn't act like sheep - i wonder if apple will miss it's earnings - it must be close to doing so to require such a dramatic price drop. i hope they make a lot of the hard drvie version ipods and get stuck with them in inventory.

Two words: Cottage Cheese