Report claims iPhone will go 3G, gain GPS in early 2008

[AppleInsider]

A new report claims that Apple is already aligning component suppliers for a major iPhone overhaul due early next year that will package, among other things, support for faster 3G networks.

The rumor, which was accompanied by claims that the handset would also include features like global positioning for navigation services (GPS), was reported Monday by The Street.com, which has little to no track record in predicting Apple's future business moves.

The claims also arrive in stark contrast to comments made by Apple chief executive Steve Jobs early Tuesday morning regarding a timeframe for an Apple-branded 3G handset.

While introducing the iPhone for UK customers, Jobs was asked by reporters about his firm's decision to forgo 3G access in the version of the iPhone that will be made available in the region later this November.

"[3G] chipsets work well apart from power. They're real power hogs. Most phones now have battery lives of 2 to 3 hours and that's due to these very power-hungry 3G chipsets," he explained. "[iPhone] has 8 hours of talktime life. That's really important when you start to use the Internet and want to use the phone to listen to music. We've got to see the battery lives for 3G get back up into the 5+ hour range. Hopefully we'll see that late next year."

Nevertheless, The Street believes the 3G iPhone will arrive "sometime in the first quarter" of 2008 and include assisted GPS chips from Broadcom's Global Locate unit and power amplifiers from TriQuint.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[acslater017]

if 3G is currently unfeasible power-wise, i'd be impressed if they could pull off 3G and GPS by early '08. 2-hour battery life?

[withtouch]

A rumour based on what Jobs said a few hours ago? I don't think so.
So another rumour would be that Jobs won't do anything against unlocked iphones based on what he said, but that's not certain, you actually don't know what's gonna happen.

[syklee26]

nobody surfs on the net using phones for 2-3 straight hours. I think Jobs misses that point. it's usually a quick search and done.

to me what he said at London is just to sell some more iPhones.

[Footloose301]

Sweet! Jobs at it again. As much as he talks about the 8hr talktime as being so important, I don't believe I've gone thru my entire battery or even 50%. I think he should release the 3G version for those of us who aren't constantly listening to music or using the web. Dont get me wrong though. I use it but usually only to check emails, myspace, a couple forums and thats it. Maybe 30min. I know some of you complain the battery life is not enough but its much better than most others out there.

[KennyWRX]

That's what I expected... there is no way he is going to say that its coming soon cause... it'll just kill present sales.

[Squirrel_Monkey]

If I had to choose between 3G and GPS, I'd pick the latter. As cool as the Google Maps app is, it's ho-hum without GPS. It's like, here's this integrated tool that shows you where things are in a highly discernible format, but without a frame of reference as to where you are even though you're using a next-generation phone.

EDGE is not as great as 3G. It's certainly not as cutting-edge, but this is Apple's choice. We have to live with it until Apple is comfortable. This is why I have no desire to jump on the iPhone bandwagon until at least the 2Gen model.

I agree with the opinions that Jobs isn't going to say ANYTHING about 3G because it would cripple EDGE iPhone sales. Perhaps the $200 price cut was a big signal that they're getting ready for a 1Q 2008 launch of the 2Gen model. SOMETHING has to be announced at MWSF.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by Squirrel_Monkey

If I had to choose between 3G and GPS, I'd pick the latter. As cool as the Google Maps app is, it's ho-hum without GPS. It's like, here's this integrated tool that shows you where things are in a highly discernible format, but without a frame of reference as to where you are even though you're using a next-generation phone.

EDGE is not as great as 3G. It's certainly not as cutting-edge, but this is Apple's choice. We have to live with it until Apple is comfortable. This is why I have no desire to jump on the iPhone bandwagon until at least the 2Gen model.

I agree with the opinions that Jobs isn't going to say ANYTHING about 3G because it would cripple EDGE iPhone sales. Perhaps the $200 price cut was a big signal that they're getting ready for a 1Q 2008 launch of the 2Gen model. SOMETHING has to be announced at MWSF.

I'd like a better option than true GPS. I'd like the iPhone and Google Maps to use cell tower (and even Wi-Fi) location to determine your route in an urban setting. True GPS is really only a benefit when you are in a very rural area. GPS chips are just large and use a lot of power while cell towers already state their location. Perhaps Google and Apple can make something work.

As much as I defend Apple still focusing on being a proper computer company I do see Jobs as having something to prove with selling a vast amount of iPhones. What other way than to keep updating your product line, dropping prices or adding new features constantly.Using the current price drop and rebate as an example, Apple could very well do the same thing at MWSF 08 with a 3G 16GB version.

[Squirrel_Monkey]

Originally Posted by solipsism

I'd like a better option than true GPS. I'd like the iPhone and Google Maps to use cell tower (and even Wi-Fi) location to determine your route in an urban setting. True GPS is really only a benefit when you are in a very rural area. GPS chips are just large and use a lot of power while cell towers already state their location. Perhaps Google and Apple can make something work.

This would work. I've seen others write about this before, so I don't know why I have my head stuck on GPS. Perhaps like EDGE and Wi-Fi, the iPhone could switch between GPS and "cell location" as appropriate, thereby negating much of the power draw on the GPS.

The problem with the 1Gen iPhone is that the expectations for size are set along with expectation for battery life. The next one can't be any bigger than the current one. Bumping the memory to 16GB shouldn't be a problem, but the 3G and GPS chipsets can't occupy too much room, or the footprint should be shot.

[shamino]

For now, this is interesting, but doesn't mean much. As with all things technological, I'll get excited when it actually ships.

I'm just hoping that sometime in the future there will be a CDMA/EVDO iPhone compatible with Verizon. But it will require a miracle of biblical proportions for Verizon to swallow enough ego to allow this, so I'm not expecting it in my lifetime.

Originally Posted by syklee26

nobody surfs on the net using phones for 2-3 straight hours. I think Jobs misses that point. it's usually a quick search and done.

Maybe right now, but only because phone-based web browsers suck.

With a good browser, like the one in an iPhone, I could easily see people web surfing while commuting on trains/buses. With an hour each way (not unusual for people who live in suburbs), there's over 2 hours a day right there.

And don't forget the fact that an iPhone pings e-mail and voice-mail servers every couple of minutes - that's also going to draw power.

Originally Posted by solipsism

I'd like a better option than true GPS. I'd like the iPhone and Google Maps to use cell tower (and even Wi-Fi) location to determine your route...

Maybe I'm missing something, but how can you get your location from Wi-Fi? I know I never configured my home base station with any location coordinates, and it gives out private IP addresses (192.168.1.*). Even my public-facing IP address (assigned by my DSL provider) would only identify my ISP and maybe my city - hardly useful for navigation.

Do public-access Wi-Fi hotspots have a location feature my base station doesn't?

[aegisdesign]

Originally Posted by Squirrel_Monkey

If I had to choose between 3G and GPS, I'd pick the latter. As cool as the Google Maps app is, it's ho-hum without GPS. It's like, here's this integrated tool that shows you where things are in a highly discernible format, but without a frame of reference as to where you are even though you're using a next-generation phone.

I'm hoping someone at some point hooks up a bluetooth GPS module. Apple's bluetooth profiles on the iPhone are pitifully barren of anything useful just now but there's no reason they couldn't add bluetooth GPS support to their Google Maps app.

That's what I use with TomTom mobile and my SE P910i currently. It works great.

[Denton]

Originally Posted by syklee26

nobody surfs on the net using phones for 2-3 straight hours. I think Jobs misses that point. it's usually a quick search and done.

to me what he said at London is just to sell some more iPhones.

I might be wrong, but wouldn't the 3G transmitter always be on? There are probably power-savings modes, but I wonder whether they would double battery life if you weren't "surfing." Anyone know anything about this?

[Gizmo-xl]

Originally Posted by aegisdesign

I'm hoping someone at some point hooks up a bluetooth GPS module. Apple's bluetooth profiles on the iPhone are pitifully barren of anything useful just now but there's no reason they couldn't add bluetooth GPS support to their Google Maps app.

That's what I use with TomTom mobile and my SE P910i currently. It works great.

This is one of the best ways to provide the GPS feature that will not eat up battery power from the phone. But I also like the cell tower method because it does not require a clear view of the sky in order to work. The question is does the current version of the phone support the ability to use the cell tower method of location?

[mrjoec123]

It's not only about battery life, although that is extremely important. It's also about physical size. Sure, there are a few phones out there with 3G, GPS, Wi-Fi, a touch screen, and full PDA capabilities, but I don't think any of them is nearly as thin as the iPhone. Most of them are bricks. And in case you haven't noticed yet, Jobs is on a thin kick lately.

And rightfully so. No matter how many times I showed people my Treo years ago, which was lightyears ahead of their phones in terms of capabilities, all I would get in response is, "Man, that thing is huge. I'd never want to carry around that brick."

And don't forget, Apple is going to want to increase the capacity as soon as possible on the iPhone, to at least the 16 GB that he Touch has. So until they make a 3G chipset that's as small (or very close to as small) as the current EDGE one Apple is using now, all while being far less power-hungry, don't expect to see a 3G iPhone.

[psychodoughboy]

As soon as there's a 3G, GPS, video-recording, 32GB iPhone, I'm buying one. That's looking like late 2008 right now, so I'll have to wait, but when it does come I'll be able to use it for almost everything I do.

[zunx]

We want a full computer in our hands. Now possible with Intel Silverthorne chip:

Intel banks on new Austin-designed chip
http://www.statesman.com/business/co...verthorne.html

Talks under way to put Intel inside OLPC's $100 notebook
http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/09/07/olpc/index.php

Think of it as the ultimate Keynote and PowerPoint presentation remore. Available January 2008?

[ecking]

If this is true please do not waste another MWSF on this Jobs.

[MacTel]

Originally Posted by psychodoughboy

As soon as there's a 3G, GPS, video-recording, 32GB iPhone, I'm buying one. That's looking like late 2008 right now, so I'll have to wait, but when it does come I'll be able to use it for almost everything I do.

You forgot salad-shooting.

[SpinDrift]

Originally Posted by syklee26

nobody surfs on the net using phones for 2-3 straight hours. I think Jobs misses that point. it's usually a quick search and done.

to me what he said at London is just to sell some more iPhones.

3G is always on and therefore always using power whether you're browsing the internet or not. Some people do actually use mobile devices to brows the web for several hours at a time.

[SWR]

There's this thing called swappable battery. Easily solves the battery issue of the iPhone whether it's 1G, 2G, 3G or 4G. Why on earth Mr. Jobs doesn't want to provide this most basic option that's available to most of the mobile phones out in the market? Really beats me.

Apple can still design a tight design with swappable battery. If it's about making $, Apple is know to charge premium for their stuff. I'm sure Mr. Jobs can still make $$$$$$$$$$ by selling swappable batteries.

[palegolas]

Originally Posted by SpinDrift

3G is always on and therefore always using power whether you're browsing the internet or not. Some people do actually use mobile devices to brows the web for several hours at a time.

Yeah, it's not like 3G is only for web surfing. 3G is the whole thing, all connection types, from data to regular calls or video calls. And plus it typically must be backwards compatible with 2G networks so it must have a combo chip of some sort that can make connections on all bands.

[Amorya]

Originally Posted by Denton

I might be wrong, but wouldn't the 3G transmitter always be on? There are probably power-savings modes, but I wonder whether they would double battery life if you weren't "surfing." Anyone know anything about this?

My phone has options for when to use 3G: for calls, for MMS, or just for internet. I've got it set on just internet, and so it only starts the 3G transmitter when I start the web browser. Calls are still made using normal GSM.

The battery in my phone is a bit knackered, having had it a few years. It lasts 2 or 3 days on standby now, and about 2 hours of calling. It used to last over a week on standby.

Amorya

[freelander51]

Originally Posted by shamino

With a good browser, like the one in an iPhone, I could easily see people web surfing while commuting on trains/buses. With an hour each way (not unusual for people who live in suburbs), there's over 2 hours a day right there.

If you surf the net every day for two straight hours to and fro you will get seriously bored. At the end of the day "one" settles for one or two news sites and maybe a sports site.

Oh and how about that old analogue and reliable friend when commuting called "a good book" or a magazine ?

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by syklee26

nobody surfs on the net using phones for 2-3 straight hours. I think Jobs misses that point. it's usually a quick search and done.

to me what he said at London is just to sell some more iPhones.

There's many a a time that I've spent between 1 and 2 hours on the internet with my iPhone. Wait till you get stuck in an airport......

[PBG4 Dude]

Originally Posted by syklee26

nobody surfs on the net using phones for 2-3 straight hours. I think Jobs misses that point. it's usually a quick search and done.

to me what he said at London is just to sell some more iPhones.

I have, while my 2 year napped in the back seat of my car. I can get 4 hours of surfing in before the 20% warning pops up.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by Squirrel_Monkey

This would work. I've seen others write about this before, so I don't know why I have my head stuck on GPS. Perhaps like EDGE and Wi-Fi, the iPhone could switch between GPS and "cell location" as appropriate, thereby negating much of the power draw on the GPS.

The problem with the 1Gen iPhone is that the expectations for size are set along with expectation for battery life. The next one can't be any bigger than the current one. Bumping the memory to 16GB shouldn't be a problem, but the 3G and GPS chipsets can't occupy too much room, or the footprint should be shot.

Cell location isn't accurate enough for live use. Present GPS locators can get to about a meter, or better, in a few cases. WiFi is not nearly ubiquitous enough to be of any use. I'm not sure how accurate it would be.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by Denton

I might be wrong, but wouldn't the 3G transmitter always be on? There are probably power-savings modes, but I wonder whether they would double battery life if you weren't "surfing." Anyone know anything about this?

It would be nice if it turned on when you tapped on Safari, and went off when you closed it. but, I don't know how it would work.

As far as I can tell, the 3G on my Treo 700p is always on, but I'm not sure. There is nothing in the prefs for networks about it. When I go to the web, the phone goes through the signing on procedure, handshake, password, etc. I don't know what else the phone is doing. You would think that if it is always on that it might not have to do that. But, you are only on the network when you sign in.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by SWR

There's this thing called swappable battery. Easily solves the battery issue of the iPhone whether it's 1G, 2G, 3G or 4G. Why on earth Mr. Jobs doesn't want to provide this most basic option that's available to most of the mobile phones out in the market? Really beats me.

Apple can still design a tight design with swappable battery. If it's about making $, Apple is know to charge premium for their stuff. I'm sure Mr. Jobs can still make $$$$$$$$$$ by selling swappable batteries.

He doesn't do it because it would make the phone thicker, heavier, and slightly more expensive.

It would also have the tendency of having the battery pop out the way I see it happen with many other phones that people drop. The phone hits the ground, and the battery, and door, if there is a separate one, go flying.

I'd love to see some stats on just how many people actually do buy extra batteries. I'll bet the number is pretty low.

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by melgross

When I go to the web, the phone goes through the signing on procedure, handshake, password, etc.

Hmmm... the iPhone must do that sort of stuff in the background, since we see none of it.

Also, why do you need a password to get to the internet?!

[melgross]

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

Hmmm... the iPhone must do that sort of stuff in the background, since we see none of it.

Also, why do you need a password to get to the internet?!

I would suppose that Sprint requires it for me to get on their data network, as a paid user. I don't have to fill it in though, it's done automatically.

Since the iPhone seems to do this in the background, where you don't see it happening, ATT likely requires it as well, but you don't know.

[MacTel]

In talking about battery life on 3G, I realized I don't see a car adaptor for the iPhone to charge with. They have a USB charger, but what's the deal with that? Every phone I've had has come with a car adaptor.

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by MacTel

In talking about battery life on 3G, I realized I don't see a car adaptor for the iPhone to charge with. They have a USB charger, but what's the deal with that? Every phone I've had has come with a car adaptor.

Does Apple make car adapters for iPods (let alone iPhones)? Or do third party providers?

[JrDave2304]

I really can't see Apple coming out with a 2nd gen 1Q 2008. There were people upset about a price cut 3 months after it's realease and I could only imagine how upset people would be after this, especially so close after the holiday season. I would guess no earlier than 3Q 2008, but I really am just basing this off of a hunch.

Nevertheless, this "news", whether accurate or not, comes at a pretty bad time for me. My contract with AT&T is up for renewal in about a month and a half and I'm torn on whether or not to get an iPhone. My gut tells me to wait for a 2nd gen like this to come out, with 3G, GPS, larger capacity, etc.. But with the horrible lack of an upgrade policy with the iphone and it's potentially higher price I don't know if I would even be able to get a 2nd gen iphone. My hope is that if they do release a 2nd gen sometime early next year, that they have some sort of upgrade policy for those who recently purchased 1st gen models.

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by JrDave2304

My hope is that if they do release a 2nd gen sometime early next year, that they have some sort of upgrade policy for those who recently purchased 1st gen models.

I doubt it very much.

[JrDave2304]

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

I doubt it very much.

Oh I know, I very much doubt it too. Just wishful thinking.

[cbowers]

Originally Posted by aegisdesign

I'm hoping someone at some point hooks up a bluetooth GPS module. Apple's bluetooth profiles on the iPhone are pitifully barren of anything useful just now but there's no reason they couldn't add bluetooth GPS support to their Google Maps app.

That's what I use with TomTom mobile and my SE P910i currently. It works great.

Exactly. Google Maps on my Blackberry gives me location and directions with the tiny Bluetooth GPS I already have.

Apple has the bluetooth stack and profiles in OSX, just put them in the iPhone already.
Then the iPhone would also send callerID popups to my Mac's as my other Bluetooth phones do. And SMS conversations can be done via addressbook on my Powerbook or iMac keyboards.

The last thing I expected from Apple was the bluetooth crippling that CDMA providers tend to foist onto the phones they carry.

[cbowers]

Originally Posted by melgross

He doesn't do it because it would make the phone thicker, heavier, and slightly more expensive.

Nah, he does it to shunt more work and revenue to his repair centers.
A user replaceable hard drive in my iMac (drives also tend to fail in the 3-4 year time frame), doesn't make it thicker. The G5 iMac model before mine had an access port to accomplish that. So there was precedent. Then the following rev had no such access. Hard drive replacement is a royal PITA on my iMac G5. Means though it would be trivial to replace a failing drive, or upgrade to a larger one, it's more than likely that it will be passed off to a service center.

[Constable Odo]

Originally Posted by JrDave2304

I really can't see Apple coming out with a 2nd gen 1Q 2008. There were people upset about a price cut 3 months after it's realease and I could only imagine how upset people would be after this, especially so close after the holiday season. I would guess no earlier than 3Q 2008, but I really am just basing this off of a hunch.

Nevertheless, this "news", whether accurate or not, comes at a pretty bad time for me. My contract with AT&T is up for renewal in about a month and a half and I'm torn on whether or not to get an iPhone. My gut tells me to wait for a 2nd gen like this to come out, with 3G, GPS, larger capacity, etc.. But with the horrible lack of an upgrade policy with the iphone and it's potentially higher price I don't know if I would even be able to get a 2nd gen iphone. My hope is that if they do release a 2nd gen sometime early next year, that they have some sort of upgrade policy for those who recently purchased 1st gen models.

Well, these aren't full size computers, you know. Who's to say if Apple might decide to change it's product cycle if the technology is available. I'm not saying you're wrong, of course. How often do handset companies change models. Usually they produce multiple models. Apple might start producing multiple handset models just as they do with computers and iPods. Not one size fits all policy.

You are really facing a self-made dilemma. You can buy a current iPhone and sell it when a new version comes out if that's feasible. Even if a 3G, GPS-enabled iPhone is introduced, there's no guarantee that the US will get it first (I don't know if you're in the US or not). Or you can buy some other inexpensive handset with a short-term contract and wait it out for the next iPhone model. I'd make the latter choice, but my opinion is worthless since I don't even own a cellphone.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by cbowers

Nah, he does it to shunt more work and revenue to his repair centers.
A user replaceable hard drive in my iMac (drives also tend to fail in the 3-4 year time frame), doesn't make it thicker. The G5 iMac model before mine had an access port to accomplish that. So there was precedent. Then the following rev had no such access. Hard drive replacement is a royal PITA on my iMac G5. Means though it would be trivial to replace a failing drive, or upgrade to a larger one, it's more than likely that it will be passed off to a service center.

First of all, you don't know that.. How do you know it doesn't make it thicker? You don't. The design has changed so much over the years.

But, HDD's in iMacs are besides the point. Look in any battery powered device you have. you will see all of the space needed because of the replaceable batteries. There is, usually, a cover. That takes up space. It is usually at least a millimeter thick. Then there is some space between that and the battery itself. Another millimeter or two. Then there is the case below the battery, and around it., to protect the insides when it is opened. That takes several more millimeters. Then there are the spring contacts. That takes several millimeters.

The battery itself must be sealed against damage from handling. That adds two or three millimeters of thickness, and length.

This could add another half ounce, or more.

If you don't see this, then it's hard to explain.

On a large device, that's not tightly packed, the extra space, and weight, doesn't matter much. But, for a small tightly packed device such as Apple's iPhone, or their iPods, it does. All you have to do is to look at the several take-apart sites that have shown it.

[TBaggins]

Oops, dbl post.

.