Briefly: iPod estimates top 10m, iBook payout, Korean iPhone talks

***AppleInsider*** · 09-21-2007, 05:57 PM

Apple is on target to crack the eight-digit mark on iPod sales before the new iPods have their full effect, according to a new report from PiperJaffray. Also, the Mac maker will be responsible for compensating Danes affected by dying iBook logicboards, and the first rumblings have emerged that negotiations for a Korean iPhone are underway.

Analyst: summer iPod shipments to surpass 10 million

While official figures will have to wait until Apple's quarterly report next month, an extrapolation of sales data for the first two months of the September quarter has reinforced early beliefs that Apple will have sold more than 10 million iPods over the period, said PiperJaffray senior analyst Gene Munster.

Approximately 10.2 million of the media players should sell given Apple's seasonal trends, he said. Furthermore, the tendency for sales tracking group NPD to underestimate the actual sales by about 13 percent in the last year suggests that its estimated 8.7 million iPods would be overly conservative.

Munster also updated his earlier projections to warn that while new iPods on September 5th had now been cautiously factored into the report, their presence in the channel was likely to boost sales significantly and could prove an upside to the final results.

Apple accepts fault for defective iBooks in Denmark

Apple has accepted a ruling from the Danish Consumer Complaints Board that it must refund customers in the region whose iBook G4 logicboards have failed from what appeared to be a consistent defect.

After an investigation that questioned both Danes and international customers, the Board discovered that a solder joint eventually wore loose after roughly one year, preventing the power button from making the link that would turn the system on. Some users had resorted to clamps and other makeshift solutions to restore contact.

In spite of agreeing to compensate Danish customers, Apple maintained that the system failures were not symptomatic of a repeatable flaw and took issue with the Board's refusal to reexamine the case. Board lawyer Frederik Navne Boesgaard was happy, however, to have reached a successful end to his organization's case.

"We in the Complaints Board are glad that Apple has accepted the decision, and we look forward to improved dialog [with the company]," he said. "It's in both the consumers' and Apple's interest."

KTF pushes for Korean iPhone deal

The ink has just dried on the signatures for European iPhone contracts, but talks are already underway to bring the Apple handset to South Korea, according to comments made by the head of one of Korea's main cellular service providers, KTF.

Company chief Cho Young-chu noted that his firm was eager to bring the iPhone to the country, but that Apple held most of the cards in the negotiations and would only launch the phone once it was satisfied with its success.

"The deal is up to the supplier, not us," Cho said. "Because the [South Korean] market is so small, they will not release it until they have confidence in its marketability here."

A deal would also depend on Apple producing a new version of the phone to support either CDMA networks or WCDMA. The latter is the same technology used for most 3G Internet access in Europe and with AT&T's own network in the US.

Apple chief executive Steve Jobs recently estimated that an acceptable 3G chipset for the iPhone was "hopefully" slated for late 2008.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

josa92 · 09-21-2007, 06:55 PM

iBook. Haven't seen that in a while.

Constable Odo · 09-21-2007, 07:58 PM

Why would Koreans want the iPhone? People in other forums say that the average Korean handset is much better than the iPhone. With such things as twin cameras, video recording, faster speeds, IMS, GPS, built-in TV, why the heck would the Koreans want a feature-crippled iPhone. I'm talking about this point in time. I'm sure the Leopard-equipped iPhone will have more software-driven features, but at this point in time the iPhone hardware is weak. Do you think that KTF is just trying to show up Apple if the people don't buy iPhones? The US buyer is used to settling for low-feature handsets, but the Koreans really like those fancy full-featured handsets. I doubt they'd give up their normal keyboards for some screen keyboard as much as they like texting.

I watch lots of Korean TV programming so I see what they're using in the way of handsets. I don't use a cellphone at all so I'm not judging from my own experience.

anantksundaram · 09-21-2007, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Constable Odo

I watch lots of Korean TV programming so I see what they're using in the way of handsets.

Sounds very scientific. Just the right kind of research on which to base sweeping statements.

SpamSandwich · 09-21-2007, 09:13 PM

Same goes in China. I saw a GPS-enabled cell phone that the driver just hooked up to a holder and it gave voice commands and had live updates that rivaled the best GPS units here in the US.

iPhone would make most Koreans laugh.

physguy · 09-21-2007, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Constable Odo

Why would Koreans want the iPhone? People in other forums say that the average Korean handset is much better than the iPhone. With such things as twin cameras, video recording, faster speeds, IMS, GPS, built-in TV, why the heck would the Koreans want a feature-crippled iPhone. I'm talking about this point in time. I'm sure the Leopard-equipped iPhone will have more software-driven features, but at this point in time the iPhone hardware is weak. Do you think that KTF is just trying to show up Apple if the people don't buy iPhones? The US buyer is used to settling for low-feature handsets, but the Koreans really like those fancy full-featured handsets. I doubt they'd give up their normal keyboards for some screen keyboard as much as they like texting.

I watch lots of Korean TV programming so I see what they're using in the way of handsets. I don't use a cellphone at all so I'm not judging from my own experience.

Features vs usability??? Same trap as always.

Also, the current phone IS Leopard driven. Just log into the phone and see for yourself.

anantksundaram · 09-21-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

iPhone would make most Koreans laugh.

But, if the market is "small" as Mr. Cho says it is (and I assume KTF's chief knows what he is talking about), why should Apple really care if it makes the "Koreans laugh" or not?

Constable Odo · 09-22-2007, 02:09 AM

But I thought even US users were complaining about so-called missing features of the iPhone. I never claimed that all Koreans don't want iPhones. It was a question I was asking. I said I saw the type of handsets Koreans were used to using. I never claimed I used scientific research. I would have had to take an iPhone to the streets of Korea and have everyone with a cellphone compare the two. Major city Koreans seem very comfortable using complicated feature-rich handsets, that's all I'm saying.

Look, there is still doubt of whether the iPhone will be a run-away success in Europe and Britain. It's not that easy to know in advance. I'm just trying to get an idea if the iPhone has a chance be a success overseas. Since I don't use cellphones and haven't ever held an iPhone, I just don't know. I also did not know that the iPhone was currently running Leopard. I don't have an iPhone to log into. I did just see an article on Apple Insider that it does run Leopard indeed, so that's my stupidity.

Yes, "features vs usability". There are always those willing to trade off one for the other but most new users will go with usability. I would think it would be difficult for an experienced user to drop features for usability. It's just my opinion because I don't believe i would do it.

I'm trying to get an idea how well the iPhone will do overseas for investment purposes. I don't know what to expect so I'm trying to get feedback from informed iPhone/handset users.

retroneo · 09-22-2007, 03:27 AM

Korea is phasing out CDMA and transitioning over to WCDMA/HSDPA. So this means that the 3G iPhone can't be too far off. HSDPA is the same system that Europe, AT&T 3G, Australia and Japan also use.

SpyHeroe · 09-22-2007, 11:19 AM

My logic borad filed as well, why don't they refund me for feeling like a dumbass buying a mac and advocating that it's so much more robust?!

JustDoIt · 09-22-2007, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpyHeroe

My logic borad filed as well, why don't they refund me for feeling like a dumbass buying a mac and advocating that it's so much more robust?!

My son's logic board failed too! I ended up giving him my wifes and buying a new one for her. The iBook is in the garage collecting dust! Lame! I want a refund too! or atleast a new logic board

RRR89 · 09-23-2007, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Constable Odo

Why would Koreans want the iPhone? People in other forums say that the average Korean handset is much better than the iPhone. With such things as twin cameras, video recording, faster speeds, IMS, GPS, built-in TV, why the heck would the Koreans want a feature-crippled iPhone. I'm talking about this point in time. I'm sure the Leopard-equipped iPhone will have more software-driven features, but at this point in time the iPhone hardware is weak. Do you think that KTF is just trying to show up Apple if the people don't buy iPhones? The US buyer is used to settling for low-feature handsets, but the Koreans really like those fancy full-featured handsets. I doubt they'd give up their normal keyboards for some screen keyboard as much as they like texting.

I watch lots of Korean TV programming so I see what they're using in the way of handsets. I don't use a cellphone at all so I'm not judging from my own experience.

Korean phones are waaaay over-rated and mostly a bunch of hype and cutesy ringtones that I'd never use. Mostly they were clunky and had crap interfaces. I lived there for two years (up until August) and my honest assessment is that Samsung and LG are passable, but basically they're industry followers, not leaders or innovators like Nokia and Apple. The only really good thing Korea has going for it are the affordable 3G and HSDPA networks set up by Nortel. This will be good news for Korea - if I go back I'd love to be able to use something as cutting edge as iPhone there. But comparing Samdung (sorry, but true) to Apple is like comparing Kia to Ferrari. And that's from experience.

RRR89 · 09-23-2007, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

iPhone would make most Koreans laugh.

Koreans often laugh or smile when they're nervous.

That said, most Korean phone codecs, chip architectures and so on are licensed from western companies anyways. I don't want to sound mean here but when I was living there I saw that the level of intellectual property and tech patent infringement of foreign stuff there was just incredible. Which makes me laugh when I hear the phrase "Korean" phone, etc. Yeah, :rolleyes :right.

Constable Odo · 09-23-2007, 03:16 AM

So you're saying that the iPhone WILL sell well in Korea? Then it has enough features to attract the Korean handset user? It's main drawback would be that it's lacking 3G? If that's the case then the iPhone has a shot at success.

Electric Monk · 09-23-2007, 02:37 PM

The iPhone will sell well in Korea (& Japan) if it has 3G and the software details the market requires. Stuff like e-cash would be cheap/simple/smart to put in (GPS & Mobile TV would also be simple/smart, but rather more expensive and bulky) as well.

The thing for all the advanced features Korea/Japan boost both in hardware and software, the user interface is (if anything) worse than the regular phone interfaces over here.

Like America/Europe the iPhone will sell based on it's UI and ease of use, the only difference is that the hardware (& software, for stuff like QR codes) requirement is higher.

A typical day in Japan (more at the link, I've just posted part of it):

I spoke to my Japanese friend and asked him what he thought about the iPhone. Most people in America love it. Most of the press are enamored. To preface, Claude is a 27 y.o. Japanese male I met in my college days. He lives right outside Tokyo working as a textile designer. He thinks the iPhone is super sexy. To him, it doesn't look like any other phone out there. He loves how slim it is and is completely smitten with the multi-touch interface, but when asked if he'd give up his Sharp branded phone; he says no.

Claude's typical day starts with him checking his email on his phone. He gets all his daily tasks and calendaring events this way. He then syncs it with his computer. He pays for the subway by placing the phone on a kiosk granting him access past the gates. The commute is spent watching TV on his phone by rotating the screen. A small antenna extends up and catches the wireless digital TV signals (something we will never have here in America). About 45 minutes later, he's in Tokyo and heads to a vending machine to buy fresh fruit and water. He places the phone up against a pad. The vending machine reads his bank information which is tied into his phone. He then places his thumb on the phone's tiny thumbprint reader to verify his identity. As he makes his way to the office, he waves the phone near the door handle to unlock it. During a 10 minute break, he's flips thru a magazine and sees something he wants to buy. The item has a tiny stamp size barcode pictogram next to it. He scans the pictogram with his phone. A receipt and shipping confirmation hits his email minutes later. As the day ends, he syncs with his work computer and goes grocery shopping paying for items with his phone. Before heading home, he heads to a bar his friend has invited him too. He uses the phone to give him step-by-step directions. The day is finally over and his phone's battery is nearing the end of its life. He plugs it in and goes about the rest of the evening relaxing before bed.

Okay, I think the iPhone can do 1-1/2 of the things he's mention; checking email and watching TV (by first purchasing shows on iTunes and syncing them). Everything else is alien to the iPhone and alien to US customers.

09-21-2007, 05:57 PM	#1
*AppleInsider* Kasper's Automated Slave Join Date: Nov 1997 Posts: 6,171	Briefly: iPod estimates top 10m, iBook payout, Korean iPhone talks Apple is on target to crack the eight-digit mark on iPod sales before the new iPods have their full effect, according to a new report from PiperJaffray. Also, the Mac maker will be responsible for compensating Danes affected by dying iBook logicboards, and the first rumblings have emerged that negotiations for a Korean iPhone are underway. Analyst: summer iPod shipments to surpass 10 million While official figures will have to wait until Apple's quarterly report next month, an extrapolation of sales data for the first two months of the September quarter has reinforced early beliefs that Apple will have sold more than 10 million iPods over the period, said PiperJaffray senior analyst Gene Munster. Approximately 10.2 million of the media players should sell given Apple's seasonal trends, he said. Furthermore, the tendency for sales tracking group NPD to underestimate the actual sales by about 13 percent in the last year suggests that its estimated 8.7 million iPods would be overly conservative. Munster also updated his earlier projections to warn that while new iPods on September 5th had now been cautiously factored into the report, their presence in the channel was likely to boost sales significantly and could prove an upside to the final results. Apple accepts fault for defective iBooks in Denmark Apple has accepted a ruling from the Danish Consumer Complaints Board that it must refund customers in the region whose iBook G4 logicboards have failed from what appeared to be a consistent defect. After an investigation that questioned both Danes and international customers, the Board discovered that a solder joint eventually wore loose after roughly one year, preventing the power button from making the link that would turn the system on. Some users had resorted to clamps and other makeshift solutions to restore contact. In spite of agreeing to compensate Danish customers, Apple maintained that the system failures were not symptomatic of a repeatable flaw and took issue with the Board's refusal to reexamine the case. Board lawyer Frederik Navne Boesgaard was happy, however, to have reached a successful end to his organization's case. "We in the Complaints Board are glad that Apple has accepted the decision, and we look forward to improved dialog [with the company]," he said. "It's in both the consumers' and Apple's interest." KTF pushes for Korean iPhone deal The ink has just dried on the signatures for European iPhone contracts, but talks are already underway to bring the Apple handset to South Korea, according to comments made by the head of one of Korea's main cellular service providers, KTF. Company chief Cho Young-chu noted that his firm was eager to bring the iPhone to the country, but that Apple held most of the cards in the negotiations and would only launch the phone once it was satisfied with its success. "The deal is up to the supplier, not us," Cho said. "Because the [South Korean] market is so small, they will not release it until they have confidence in its marketability here." A deal would also depend on Apple producing a new version of the phone to support either CDMA networks or WCDMA. The latter is the same technology used for most 3G Internet access in Europe and with AT&T's own network in the US. Apple chief executive Steve Jobs recently estimated that an acceptable 3G chipset for the iPhone was "hopefully" slated for late 2008. [ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

09-21-2007, 09:13 PM	#5
SpamSandwich Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 8,461	Same goes in China. I saw a GPS-enabled cell phone that the driver just hooked up to a holder and it gave voice commands and had live updates that rivaled the best GPS units here in the US. iPhone would make most Koreans laugh. "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield, and government to gain ground." —Thomas Jefferson Proud AAPL stock owner.

09-22-2007, 02:09 AM	#8
Constable Odo Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 160	But I thought even US users were complaining about so-called missing features of the iPhone. I never claimed that all Koreans don't want iPhones. It was a question I was asking. I said I saw the type of handsets Koreans were used to using. I never claimed I used scientific research. I would have had to take an iPhone to the streets of Korea and have everyone with a cellphone compare the two. Major city Koreans seem very comfortable using complicated feature-rich handsets, that's all I'm saying. Look, there is still doubt of whether the iPhone will be a run-away success in Europe and Britain. It's not that easy to know in advance. I'm just trying to get an idea if the iPhone has a chance be a success overseas. Since I don't use cellphones and haven't ever held an iPhone, I just don't know. I also did not know that the iPhone was currently running Leopard. I don't have an iPhone to log into. I did just see an article on Apple Insider that it does run Leopard indeed, so that's my stupidity. Yes, "features vs usability". There are always those willing to trade off one for the other but most new users will go with usability. I would think it would be difficult for an experienced user to drop features for usability. It's just my opinion because I don't believe i would do it. I'm trying to get an idea how well the iPhone will do overseas for investment purposes. I don't know what to expect so I'm trying to get feedback from informed iPhone/handset users. Last edited by Constable Odo; 09-22-2007 at 11:09 AM..

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09-21-2007, 06:55 PM	#2
josa92 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Far, Far Away Posts: 191	iBook. Haven't seen that in a while.

09-21-2007, 07:58 PM	#3
Constable Odo Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 160	Why would Koreans want the iPhone? People in other forums say that the average Korean handset is much better than the iPhone. With such things as twin cameras, video recording, faster speeds, IMS, GPS, built-in TV, why the heck would the Koreans want a feature-crippled iPhone. I'm talking about this point in time. I'm sure the Leopard-equipped iPhone will have more software-driven features, but at this point in time the iPhone hardware is weak. Do you think that KTF is just trying to show up Apple if the people don't buy iPhones? The US buyer is used to settling for low-feature handsets, but the Koreans really like those fancy full-featured handsets. I doubt they'd give up their normal keyboards for some screen keyboard as much as they like texting. I watch lots of Korean TV programming so I see what they're using in the way of handsets. I don't use a cellphone at all so I'm not judging from my own experience.

09-22-2007, 03:27 AM	#9
retroneo Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 205	Korea is phasing out CDMA and transitioning over to WCDMA/HSDPA. So this means that the 3G iPhone can't be too far off. HSDPA is the same system that Europe, AT&T 3G, Australia and Japan also use.

09-22-2007, 11:19 AM	#10
SpyHeroe Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2	My logic borad filed as well, why don't they refund me for feeling like a dumbass buying a mac and advocating that it's so much more robust?!

09-23-2007, 03:16 AM	#14
Constable Odo Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 160	So you're saying that the iPhone WILL sell well in Korea? Then it has enough features to attract the Korean handset user? It's main drawback would be that it's lacking 3G? If that's the case then the iPhone has a shot at success.

09-23-2007, 02:37 PM	#15
Electric Monk Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 486	The iPhone will sell well in Korea (& Japan) if it has 3G and the software details the market requires. Stuff like e-cash would be cheap/simple/smart to put in (GPS & Mobile TV would also be simple/smart, but rather more expensive and bulky) as well. The thing for all the advanced features Korea/Japan boost both in hardware and software, the user interface is (if anything) worse than the regular phone interfaces over here. Like America/Europe the iPhone will sell based on it's UI and ease of use, the only difference is that the hardware (& software, for stuff like QR codes) requirement is higher. A typical day in Japan (more at the link, I've just posted part of it): I spoke to my Japanese friend and asked him what he thought about the iPhone. Most people in America love it. Most of the press are enamored. To preface, Claude is a 27 y.o. Japanese male I met in my college days. He lives right outside Tokyo working as a textile designer. He thinks the iPhone is super sexy. To him, it doesn't look like any other phone out there. He loves how slim it is and is completely smitten with the multi-touch interface, but when asked if he'd give up his Sharp branded phone; he says no. Claude's typical day starts with him checking his email on his phone. He gets all his daily tasks and calendaring events this way. He then syncs it with his computer. He pays for the subway by placing the phone on a kiosk granting him access past the gates. The commute is spent watching TV on his phone by rotating the screen. A small antenna extends up and catches the wireless digital TV signals (something we will never have here in America). About 45 minutes later, he's in Tokyo and heads to a vending machine to buy fresh fruit and water. He places the phone up against a pad. The vending machine reads his bank information which is tied into his phone. He then places his thumb on the phone's tiny thumbprint reader to verify his identity. As he makes his way to the office, he waves the phone near the door handle to unlock it. During a 10 minute break, he's flips thru a magazine and sees something he wants to buy. The item has a tiny stamp size barcode pictogram next to it. He scans the pictogram with his phone. A receipt and shipping confirmation hits his email minutes later. As the day ends, he syncs with his work computer and goes grocery shopping paying for items with his phone. Before heading home, he heads to a bar his friend has invited him too. He uses the phone to give him step-by-step directions. The day is finally over and his phone's battery is nearing the end of its life. He plugs it in and goes about the rest of the evening relaxing before bed. Okay, I think the iPhone can do 1-1/2 of the things he's mention; checking email and watching TV (by first purchasing shows on iTunes and syncing them). Everything else is alien to the iPhone and alien to US customers.

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