Apple unleashes new "Seed Update" for Leopard testers

[AppleInsider]

Apple Inc. on Monday provided its developer community with yet another small update to its upcoming Leopard operating system, this time adding a couple of bug fixes and proceeding with tests on the system's software update mechanism.

The 1.5MB update, labeled "Mac OS X Leopard 9A557 and 9A559 Seed Update 1.0," was recommended for all users testing Mac OS X Leopard build 9A557 or 9A559, but did not represent a new build in itself, according to people familiar with the matter.

Instead, Apple reportedly initiated the release to test "new features" of Leopard's embedded Software Update mechanism. It also repaired issues with wireless networking and RAW image viewing under the next-gen OS, expected to be released sometime later this month.

Apple issued two similar automatic software updates for Leopard testers about 10 days ago, with which it also claimed to be evaluating the system's software updater. The company then quickly followed up with a full-blown Leopard build release in which it instructed testers with HP printers to deselect any and all HP printer drivers from the Leopard installer. Apple said those drivers could be obtained via Leopard's Software Update mechanism once the new build had been installed.

It was later disclosed to MacNN that HP and Apple are working together to allow users of the finalized version of Mac OS X Leopard to instantly receive the the latest versions of HP's printer drivers over a new version of Software Update that will ship with the operating system later this month.

"HP has a large market share with Apple customers and is very pleased that Apple has chosen HP drivers and software to test with the latest Leopard developer seed and software update process," a representative for HP said.

Apple has said it plans to release Leopard in October and recent pre-release builds of the software are believed to be approaching release candidate status, if they are not already considered as such.



AppleInsider also recently cited sources who note that Apple in recent weeks determined that it would need to increased the requirements for Leopard to exclude 800MHz PowerPC G4-based system. Instead, it's now believed the software will now require Macs with "an Intel processor or a PowerPC G4 (867 MHz or faster) or G5 processor." Other system requirements will include a DVD drive, built-in FireWire, at least 512MB of RAM (additional recommended), and at least 9GB of hard disk space.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[MacTel]

It'll go GM tomorrow or the next day or the next or the next day or...

[solipsism]

I have had nothing but problems with the Software Updater--only Leopard issue I have--since the last update to it just prior to the 9A559 release. It will download some data and then stalls. It will sit there indefinitely doing that. I have to Quit (not Force Quit) Software Updater and restart it. The silver lining is that it keeps a record of the data from the previous download so it can start where it left off. This 1.5MB download took three attempts to get the whole thing. I hope this one fixes it.

[Ireland]

F**k, I thought it was a bomb to blow up Aqua, darn.

[Bregalad]

This can't be the GM just yet. One of the known issues with 9A559 was a risk of data corruption when upgrading a PowerPC machine. You can't fix corrupt data with Software Update.

[eAi]

Does the Automatic Updates window still say there are new updates after you've installed all the available updates? I can see why it does, but it's always bothered me just a bit...

[rob05au]

Me sits quietly awaiting leopard and not to concerned about the update bug from Tiger to Leopard on PPC macs as I will do a clean install to be sure of any current problems get tossed out first.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by rob05au

Me sits quietly awaiting leopard and not to concerned about the update bug from Tiger to Leopard on PPC macs as I will do a clean install to be sure of any current problems get tossed out first.

Personally, I wouldn't do that. Updating a Unix based system is much more straightforward than it is in Windows. Plus you get all your setting and data coming with you as well. I've never had an issue with an OS X version update.

But if you really want to do this you should signup for a free 60-day .Mac trial which will flawlessly sync all your settings and some data.

These include:
• Bookmarks
• Calenders
• Contacts
• Dashboard Widgets
• Dock Items
• Keychains
• Mail Accounts
• Mail Rules, Signatures, and Smart Mailboxes
• Notes
• Preferences

[farlander]

Originally Posted by solipsism

I have had nothing but problems with the Software Updater--only Leopard issue I have--since the last update to it just prior to the 9A559 release. It will download some data and then stalls. It will sit there indefinitely doing that. I have to Quit (not Force Quit) Software Updater and restart it. The silver lining is that it keeps a record of the data from the previous download so it can start where it left off. This 1.5MB download took three attempts to get the whole thing. I hope this one fixes it.

Same problem here Worked fine on an old PPC Mac Mini, but on Intel - the same behavior as yours.

[farlander]

First and the foremost, Leopard's Address Book and iCal are apparently incompatible with Tiger's, at least on .Mac level: they won't sync between the two.

Another issue is Finder crashes, when you copy files using Apple Remote Desktop v3.1.

And one more issue is Back To My Mac is not working properly.

And there's still no resolution independence.

Front Row freezes up when you try to view certain VIDEO_TS folders from ripped DVDs, after which it stays in memory, consuming 100% of CPU

Time Machine backs up files, owned by other users (root in my example), but can't restore them - it lets you choose them, lets you click RESTORE button, but does nothing. The only way to restore such files is to go directly to the snapshot and copy the files from there manually.

And one more thing: while Steve Jobs promised a consistent look across the system, there still are two kinds of scroll bars (Aqua and the new plastic look), and a bunch of different kinds of buttons, even within a single application. For example, Apple Mail 3.0 has its own buttons in the tool bar, but has standard Aqua buttons in all dialog windows, and uses Aqua scroll bars. The same goes for Finder. iTunes, on the other hand, has plastic scroll bars and its window doesn't become lighter in color, when in background, while Finder and Mail do.

And can anybody please explain to me why in the world anybody would care about the new 3D dock? Especially when shadows behind the dock totally mismatch the dock's appearance and depth.

In short, the current release seems to be a long shot from being a release candidate.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by farlander

Same problem here Worked fine on an old PPC Mac Mini, but on Intel - the same behavior as yours.

After that it wouldn't install It just sat there in limbo.

I then logged into my Admin account, deleted the download from /Library/Packages and then I downloaded it again and it installed fine.

[rob05au]

These are the issues that I rather do a clean install. But first and for most backup my personal data which is rather easy enough and replace it and applications after the install.

I have seen to many issues after doing archive and installs. This is pretty much the samething when I would be going from Tiger to leopard.

There is no guarantee that all apps are going to work straight away in leopard.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by farlander

And one more issue is Back To My Mac is not working properly.

Neither is mine. It asks me for the SCHelper password which I don't know. I've posted the question on Apple's developer site but have yet to get an answer.

Also, my Address Book has not synced with .Mac for a couple months. Still can't figure that one out but I'm sure it's Leopard related.

BTW, welcome to AI and good post for being a newbie here. Quality posts from new posters doesn't happen often.

[mdriftmeyer]

Originally Posted by farlander

First and the foremost, Leopard's Address Book and iCal are apparently incompatible with Tiger's, at least on .Mac level: they won't sync between the two.

Another issue is Finder crashes, when you copy files using Apple Remote Desktop v3.1.

And one more issue is Back To My Mac is not working properly.

And there's still no resolution independence.

Front Row freezes up when you try to view certain VIDEO_TS folders from ripped DVDs, after which it stays in memory, consuming 100% of CPU

Time Machine backs up files, owned by other users (root in my example), but can't restore them - it lets you choose them, lets you click RESTORE button, but does nothing. The only way to restore such files is to go directly to the snapshot and copy the files from there manually.

And one more thing: while Steve Jobs promised a consistent look across the system, there still are two kinds of scroll bars (Aqua and the new plastic look), and a bunch of different kinds of buttons, even within a single application. For example, Apple Mail 3.0 has its own buttons in the tool bar, but has standard Aqua buttons in all dialog windows, and uses Aqua scroll bars. The same goes for Finder. iTunes, on the other hand, has plastic scroll bars and its window doesn't become lighter in color, when in background, while Finder and Mail do.

And can anybody please explain to me why in the world anybody would care about the new 3D dock? Especially when shadows behind the dock totally mismatch the dock's appearance and depth.

In short, the current release seems to be a long shot from being a release candidate.

Regarding RI, when you release some RI Displays [basically LCDs that are several hundred pixels per inch] then presto chango! RI is on.

[JustBrady]

I should be a developer so I can be the first to use stuff like Leopard. Dang I want to see what you guys are seeing. I literally can't wait for Leopard!

[swilcox]

Originally Posted by JustBrady

I should be a developer so I can be the first to use stuff like Leopard. Dang I want to see what you guys are seeing. I literally can't wait for Leopard!

Well, LITERALLY you will wait.

[NarutoSasuke]

Originally Posted by farlander

First and the foremost, Leopard's Address Book and iCal are apparently incompatible with Tiger's, at least on .Mac level: they won't sync between the two.

Another issue is Finder crashes, when you copy files using Apple Remote Desktop v3.1.

And one more issue is Back To My Mac is not working properly.

And there's still no resolution independence.

Front Row freezes up when you try to view certain VIDEO_TS folders from ripped DVDs, after which it stays in memory, consuming 100% of CPU

Time Machine backs up files, owned by other users (root in my example), but can't restore them - it lets you choose them, lets you click RESTORE button, but does nothing. The only way to restore such files is to go directly to the snapshot and copy the files from there manually.

And one more thing: while Steve Jobs promised a consistent look across the system, there still are two kinds of scroll bars (Aqua and the new plastic look), and a bunch of different kinds of buttons, even within a single application. For example, Apple Mail 3.0 has its own buttons in the tool bar, but has standard Aqua buttons in all dialog windows, and uses Aqua scroll bars. The same goes for Finder. iTunes, on the other hand, has plastic scroll bars and its window doesn't become lighter in color, when in background, while Finder and Mail do.

And can anybody please explain to me why in the world anybody would care about the new 3D dock? Especially when shadows behind the dock totally mismatch the dock's appearance and depth.

In short, the current release seems to be a long shot from being a release candidate.

Things like this really start to worry me. Can all these issues be taken care of this month? Even then, I mean, it's not necessarily by the end this month.

It still has to go Gold Master then be put on discs and shipped to the Apple store... I just don't see it coming out this month... but at the same time I don't think they want to disappoint shareholders, but why wait this long to tell everyone about a delay?

I don't know what Apple is doing with Leopard right now, but hopefully we will find out soon.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by NarutoSasuke

Things like this really start to worry me. Can all these issues be taken care of this month? Even then, I mean, it's not necessarily by the end this month.

It still has to go Gold Master then be put on discs and shipped to the Apple store... I just don't see it coming out this month... but at the same time I don't think they want to disappoint shareholders, but why wait this long to tell everyone about a delay?

I don't know what Apple is doing with Leopard right now, but hopefully we will find out soon.

I don't think it will be delayed again. I think it will go Gold soon for a Tuesday, October 30th release. I know some of the issues farlander mentions* are real (haven't checked everything) but I think that the overall stability & speed for items that most people will be using are 'good enough' for x.0 release, especially when compared to Vista's release. Plus, in the weeks that Apple needs it printed Apple will still be working on the x.1, which we may see in Software Update the day if the release or very soon after.


* Here are his issues with the latest build:

• Two are related to .Mac syncing & Contacts/iCal & Back to Mac. I'm having this too but .Mac really needs some improvement. I put the blame there.

• Issues with Remote Desktop 3.1 on Leopard. This can be solved with a Remote Desktop update via Software Update. Leopard has it's own remote desktop built into Finder which may be causing some issues with use of frameworks. I find it much simpler to use, though it has less features. It doesn't work when connecting to Tiger.

• Front Row freezing on some Video_TS files. Again, I don't think this is a deal breaker for going Gold. An update to Front Row down the line should do the trick.

• Time Machine** won't let you restore files that aren't owned by the user. This is also a seemingly simple fix that can be pushed out with an update to Time Machine. Time Machine shouldn't even be listing these files owned by Root as it's not even enabled by default.

• No Resolution Independence as far as i can tell looks like a no but I can't be sure, but I really don't need it on my notebook displays so I haven't given it much thought. Apple won't hold off going Gold to wait for RI to be ready.

• There are some cosmetics that need to be worked out. Save for iTunes, Aqua scroll bars are still in most apos. Again, this won't keep Apple from going Gold. I think it says that Apple has focused on stability and speed of Leopard instead of the little things that can be fixed later screams to me that an October release is going to happen.


** We've all seen the latest default background and startup background of build 9A559. To me it's directly relating to Time Machine. I wonder if Apple will also be selling an Apple-branded external HDD enclosure and drive when Leopard is released. The requirements for Leopard I read this week state it requires FireWire. Why? That makes no sense to me unless Apple--for marketing reason-- is really trying to showcase Time Machine. If so, then I'd also expect to see FW800 on the next iteration of Macbook.

[NarutoSasuke]

Originally Posted by solipsism

I don't think it will be delayed again. I think it will go Gold soon for a Tuesday, October 30th release. I know some of the issues farlander mentions* are real (haven't checked everything) but I think that the overall stability & speed for items that most people will be using are 'good enough' for x.0 release, especially when compared to Vista's release. Plus, in the weeks that Apple needs it printed Apple will still be working on the x.1, which we may see in Software Update the day if the release or very soon after.

I see what you are saying and I'm just wanting it to be stable. I'm super excited about performance gains though, this will technically be my first Mac OS Upgrade. I bought my iMac G5 (20") in Oct '05 and Tiger had been released a couple of months before... I jumped on the bandwagon late.

Having a Core2Duo MacBook Pro, I think 64-bit and better use of dual-core processors will really benefit and I'm just looking forward to any type of performance gains. I'm sure the 3rd party software will follow suit very soon after Leopard is released.

[Frank777]

Originally Posted by farlander

First and the foremost, Leopard's Address Book and iCal are apparently incompatible with Tiger's, at least on .Mac level: they won't sync between the two.

Another issue is Finder crashes, when you copy files using Apple Remote Desktop v3.1.

And one more issue is Back To My Mac is not working properly.

And there's still no resolution independence.

Front Row freezes up when you try to view certain VIDEO_TS folders from ripped DVDs, after which it stays in memory, consuming 100% of CPU

Time Machine backs up files, owned by other users (root in my example), but can't restore them - it lets you choose them, lets you click RESTORE button, but does nothing. The only way to restore such files is to go directly to the snapshot and copy the files from there manually.

And one more thing: while Steve Jobs promised a consistent look across the system, there still are two kinds of scroll bars (Aqua and the new plastic look), and a bunch of different kinds of buttons, even within a single application. For example, Apple Mail 3.0 has its own buttons in the tool bar, but has standard Aqua buttons in all dialog windows, and uses Aqua scroll bars. The same goes for Finder. iTunes, on the other hand, has plastic scroll bars and its window doesn't become lighter in color, when in background, while Finder and Mail do.

And can anybody please explain to me why in the world anybody would care about the new 3D dock? Especially when shadows behind the dock totally mismatch the dock's appearance and depth.

In short, the current release seems to be a long shot from being a release candidate.

Yikes.

[SpinDrift]

Originally Posted by swilcox

Well, LITERALLY you will wait.

Insightful first post! Welcome to AI!

[gjw]

Originally Posted by solipsism

The requirements for Leopard I read this week state it requires FireWire. Why?

FireWire was also a requirement for Tiger.
And on-board USB was a requirement for Panther.
Sometimes Apple throws something into the system requirements that on the surface don't seem particularly relevant. The reason for this is because the introduction of that feature coincides with some other change that is relevant but is much more difficult for the typical user to identify. 10.3 didn't need USB, for example. It needed the New World ROM; but try explaining what that means to Grandpa Chester.

[farlander]

Originally Posted by solipsism

• Two are related to .Mac syncing & Contacts/iCal & Back to Mac. I'm having this too but .Mac really needs some improvement. I put the blame there.

I suspect the new Contacts/iCal data format might be incompatible between the Leopard and Tiger versions. The way they sync, as far as I understand, is just copying their data files to and from iDisk.

Originally Posted by solipsism

• Issues with Remote Desktop 3.1 on Leopard. This can be solved with a Remote Desktop update via Software Update. Leopard has it's own remote desktop built into Finder which may be causing some issues with use of frameworks. I find it much simpler to use, though it has less features. It doesn't work when connecting to Tiger.

I was able to connect to Tiger from Leopard using its native "Screen sharing" option, when browsing available shares. The problem with Leopard's native remote access tools is that there's no way to install packages remotely, no way to collect information about remote systems, no way to observe users' screen (you're given full control instead), and no way to chat with the remote user, all of which are quite important features for remote administration.

Originally Posted by solipsism

• Time Machine** won't let you restore files that aren't owned by the user. This is also a seemingly simple fix that can be pushed out with an update to Time Machine. Time Machine shouldn't even be listing these files owned by Root as it's not even enabled by default.

Since there's technically no "root" user in Mac OS X (it exists, but you can't log into GUI as root - it's all purely sudo based), you _should_ be able to restore files, owned by root, the same way you'd do in Finder: with a prompt for your password. But in Time Machine currently nothing happens - no error messages, no prompts for password, no job is done. It quietly ignores your instructions. It is a bug, in my opinion, and I'm sure quote a lot of people would stumble upon it almost the first time they'd have to use it to restore a file.

Another thing, I was surprised that Apple Mail doesn't have support for Time Machine, the way Address Book does, for example.

Originally Posted by solipsism

• No Resolution Independence as far as i can tell looks like a no but I can't be sure, but I really don't need it on my notebook displays so I haven't given it much thought. Apple won't hold off going Gold to wait for RI to be ready.

• There are some cosmetics that need to be worked out. Save for iTunes, Aqua scroll bars are still in most apos. Again, this won't keep Apple from going Gold. I think it says that Apple has focused on stability and speed of Leopard instead of the little things that can be fixed later screams to me that an October release is going to happen.

All this, while not such a big deal, is just another reason for Windows people to make fun of Apple. Apple was making fun of Vista, because it was delayed by so much - and yet, Leopard got delayed. They were making fun of Vista because a lot of major features didn't make it to release, and yet again: looks like some of the features, promised in Leopard, are not going to make it. It just looks very immature of Steve Jobs and his colleagues to make fun of Vista, and yet suffer from all the same problems at the same time.

I'm really saddened by what's going on with Apple lately. It's slowly, but surely, becomes a laughingstock of computer industry. Childish attitude and jabs towards its competitors, strange attitude towards developers of iPhone applications, totally sucky support for .Mac and iTunes... I'm not sure what exactly they're trying to achieve, but I'm sure as hell: they're risking to anger their most valuable asset - their user base.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by farlander

All this, while not such a big deal, is just another reason for Windows people to make fun of Apple. Apple was making fun of Vista, because it was delayed by so much - and yet, Leopard got delayed. They were making fun of Vista because a lot of major features didn't make it to release, and yet again: looks like some of the features, promised in Leopard, are not going to make it. It just looks very immature of Steve Jobs and his colleagues to make fun of Vista, and yet suffer from all the same problems at the same time.

I'm really saddened by what's going on with Apple lately. It's slowly, but surely, becomes a laughingstock of computer industry. Childish attitude and jabs towards its competitors, strange attitude towards developers of iPhone applications, totally sucky support for .Mac and iTunes... I'm not sure what exactly they're trying to achieve, but I'm sure as hell: they're risking to anger their most valuable asset - their user base.

I agree with everything you are saying and Apple surely seems to be spreading itself a little thin these days. Finding new OS X programmers can't be easy when you consider Apple's growth.

Leopard will surely be compared to Vista when it officially arrives but as a user of both Leopard much more stable and faster, especially with older machines. The ease of use of network shares and screen shring in Leopard over Tiger and the loss of a freezing Finder when a shrae goes away are a major plus. In comparison, I have had nothing but trouble getting Vista to network with even WinXP, though hopefully SP1 will resolve this. And the delays with Vista are nothing compared to the 4(?) month delay of Leopard.

I do think Apple made the right choice with focusing on the iPhone first as it will surely help to sell more Macs.


I predict Gold on Thursday, October 4th at 2:30pm.

[Lemon Bon Bon.]

Let's hope so.

Lemon Bon Bon.

[crentist]

Originally Posted by solipsism

And the delays with Vista are nothing compared to the 4(?) month delay of Leopard.

I do think Apple made the right choice with focusing on the iPhone first as it will surely help to sell more Macs.

Seeing as how Vista/Longhorn was originally slated for release in 2005 (or earlier?) and didn't make it until 2007, I think you meant that a 4 month Leopard delay is nothing compared to the 2 year delay of Vista.

[kcmac]

Good enough.....never is.

I can certainly wait. Even though it is killing me.

[idoaudio]

Originally Posted by crentist

Seeing as how Vista/Longhorn was originally slated for release in 2005 (or earlier?) and didn't make it until 2007, I think you meant that a 4 month Leopard delay is nothing compared to the 2 year delay of Vista.

Ouch.

...well said!

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by crentist

Seeing as how Vista/Longhorn was originally slated for release in 2005 (or earlier?) and didn't make it until 2007, I think you meant that a 4 month Leopard delay is nothing compared to the 2 year delay of Vista.

Yes, that is what I meant. Thank you for clarifying.

BTW, Leopard is so ready to go Gold.

[rmeyer52]

Originally Posted by solipsism

I don't think it will be delayed again. I think it will go Gold soon for a Tuesday, October 30th release. I know some of the issues farlander mentions* are real (haven't checked everything) but I think that the overall stability & speed for items that most people will be using are 'good enough' for x.0 release, especially when compared to Vista's release. Plus, in the weeks that Apple needs it printed Apple will still be working on the x.1, which we may see in Software Update the day if the release or very soon after.


* Here are his issues with the latest build:

• Two are related to .Mac syncing & Contacts/iCal & Back to Mac. I'm having this too but .Mac really needs some improvement. I put the blame there.

• Issues with Remote Desktop 3.1 on Leopard. This can be solved with a Remote Desktop update via Software Update. Leopard has it's own remote desktop built into Finder which may be causing some issues with use of frameworks. I find it much simpler to use, though it has less features. It doesn't work when connecting to Tiger.

• Front Row freezing on some Video_TS files. Again, I don't think this is a deal breaker for going Gold. An update to Front Row down the line should do the trick.

• Time Machine** won't let you restore files that aren't owned by the user. This is also a seemingly simple fix that can be pushed out with an update to Time Machine. Time Machine shouldn't even be listing these files owned by Root as it's not even enabled by default.

• No Resolution Independence as far as i can tell looks like a no but I can't be sure, but I really don't need it on my notebook displays so I haven't given it much thought. Apple won't hold off going Gold to wait for RI to be ready.

• There are some cosmetics that need to be worked out. Save for iTunes, Aqua scroll bars are still in most apos. Again, this won't keep Apple from going Gold. I think it says that Apple has focused on stability and speed of Leopard instead of the little things that can be fixed later screams to me that an October release is going to happen.


** We've all seen the latest default background and startup background of build 9A559. To me it's directly relating to Time Machine. I wonder if Apple will also be selling an Apple-branded external HDD enclosure and drive when Leopard is released. The requirements for Leopard I read this week state it requires FireWire. Why? That makes no sense to me unless Apple--for marketing reason-- is really trying to showcase Time Machine. If so, then I'd also expect to see FW800 on the next iteration of Macbook.

Also do not forget Mail crashes when using stationary and having "spell before sending" in preferences

[farlander]

Originally Posted by solipsism

Yes, that is what I meant. Thank you for clarifying.

BTW, Leopard is so ready to go Gold.

I've found a couple more bugs in the current beta... One of which is quite a big show stopper: Front Row is not working with shared content (from other macs on the network). Another - Time Machine hangs occasionally during an incremental backup (had it happened on three occasions, all at night, so can't really tell exactly why it froze, but the only way to fix that was to completely reboot the system).

So to me it still looks like beta. If it is released as it is right now - it will make Apple look even worse than it already does, with iPhone locking and everything. I seriously doubt Apple needs more bad publicity right now. Although, if they are not ready for release this month - whatever they do, it's not going to be pretty: either release buggy product, or delay the release until it's more stable...

[theGAR]

I think,
end of october: announcement of release to avoid loss of face
somewhere in november: actual release

[json]

This seed update slows down my WLAN in two ways:

* When waking my MacBook from sleep it takes about twice as long to reconnect to the WLAN as it did before the update. It's a question of seconds of course, but it is really noticable anyway. I can easily open a new Safari window and start to load a web page before the reconnect is finished (the web page load of course fails since there is no connection). Really annoying.
By the way, I have the same problem with 10.4 after the latest airport security update was installed.

* Some web pages take longer to load. This is not as noticable as the above problem, but still quite easy to see.

The update also moves the airport object (in network settings) to the bottom of the list. Moving it back to the top changes nothing though.
I also tried to delete airport settings and plist:s, network connection and network object (i.e. delete the airport object from the network settings list and re-creating it). Didn't change anything.

I reinstalled the 9A559 version and problems disappeared.