Leopard launch info imminent; Nokia downgraded on iPhone worries

[AppleInsider]

Apple is just about ready to spread the buzz about Leopard. Meanwhile, Nokia has been dealt a serious blow at the hands of Apple and others, according to a new wealth management report out of UBS.

Leopard Roars

Apple as early as Tuesday is expected to make a Leopard-related announcement to both customers and members of the media, AppleInsider has learned.

After cutting it close near the tail-end of the software's development cycle, the stars appear to have finally fallen into alignment after a Gold Master candidate build surfaced internally this past weekend.

Obviously, an impending announcement would concern availability, as much else about Leopard has been out in the open for quite some time. AppleInsider had previously pinned Leopard's launch for 6:00 p.m. on Friday Oct. 26 -- a date and time which several publications, including our friends at ifoAppleStore, now appear to be confirming.

Nokia stock downgraded thanks to iPhone

Nokia's position in the market is overrated due in part to the iPhone, according to a new research note from UBS wealth management analyst Cesare Valeggia that recommended investors sell shares in the Finnish handset maker.

While the investment firm has previously advised buying Nokia stock, the climate of the market has changed, Valeggia said. With Apple entering the business and HP also making its return, the cellphone veteran would have to invest more money in research to keep up with or outperform its rivals.

Nokia would also have to reduce profit margins to make its 3G phones and smartphones more competitive and increase its marketshare in step with expectations, according to the report. Previous claims would have had the company's phone shipments climb by double-digit figures, which was "unrealistic" given the maturity of the cellphone market.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[ecking]

I want Leopard really badly but I haven't upgraded to FCP6 yet, I'm still using 5.1 and I don't know if that will cause any problems. Is there anywhere to find that stuff out?

[buddha]

Originally Posted by ecking

I want Leopard really badly but I haven't upgraded to FCP6 yet, I'm still using 5.1 and I don't know if that will cause any problems. Is there anywhere to find that stuff out?

I really don't see how that could cause any problems at all, I'm sure there are thousands of people in your position.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

After cutting it close near the tail-end of the software's development cycle...

Very clever.

[Ireland]

Ok, so Leopard's coming out and I don't want to use Leopard until 2008, yet I want a new Mac. Looks like I may have to use it regardless. If I buy a new 24" iMac now, I just know it wont arrive without Leopard pre-installed, they'll delay it for a week or two, they are just that predictable.

[lkrupp]

According to all the Mac forums, blogs, web sites, et al, the iPhone is an unmitigated disaster that works for no one, satisfies no one, can't do anything right, turns into a brick. Apple is being sued on a daily basis for billions of dollars. If that's correct then nobody is buying them so how does that hurt Nokia? Please, somebody, explain this to me. I must be misinterpreting all the negative comments, sites, blogs, rants, lawsuits or something. Help!

[filburt]

Build 9A581 (or whatever ends up being the GM) had better be some major update. 9A559, the last known update, still had major stability issue when running Aperture, iMovie '07 (7.1), Photoshop CS3, etc.

[jamilio]

A question for you apple veterans:

I'm new to mac, I have delayed getting a macbook pro until Leopard's release because I don't want to fork over the $130 for the upgrade. There is an apple store just a couple miles from me, and I'd like to buy my mbp there (as opposed to store.apple.com). According to history, when will Leopard be *installed* and ready to be bought on new macs in stores?

[crees!]

I can say I knew (that is, had that feeling) that as soon as they took that Al Gore crap down today that something was going to hit tomorrow. We'll just have to wait and see.

[crentist]

Originally Posted by Ireland

Ok, so Leopard's coming out and I don't want to use Leopard until 2008, yet I want a new Mac. Looks like I may have to use it regardless. If I buy a new 24" iMac now, I just know it wont arrive without Leopard pre-installed, they'll delay it for a week or two, they are just that predictable.

Do you have an Apple Store nearby? You could call and reserve your new iMac the day before Leopard is launched, mosey on into the Apple Store to pick up your iMac the next day, and you will most likely find a Leopard Install disk inside that you can wait until 2008 to install once all the updates are out for which you are presumably waiting.

Apple Store employees use the day before a new OS is to launch to slip upgrade disks into the boxes of all current inventory. This way you could have your cake AND eat it in 2008 like you want (although I don't think I could wait that long for a juicy dessert like Leopard.

Eh?

[crentist]

Originally Posted by jamilio

A question for you apple veterans:

I'm new to mac, I have delayed getting a macbook pro until Leopard's release because I don't want to fork over the $130 for the upgrade. There is an apple store just a couple miles from me, and I'd like to buy my mbp there (as opposed to store.apple.com). According to history, when will Leopard be *installed* and ready to be bought on new macs in stores?

See my reply to Ireland (Post #10). Happy Shopping!

[crees!]

Originally Posted by Ireland

Ok, so Leopard's coming out and I don't want to use Leopard until 2008, yet I want a new Mac. Looks like I may have to use it regardless. If I buy a new 24" iMac now, I just know it wont arrive without Leopard pre-installed, they'll delay it for a week or two, they are just that predictable.

Stop pussy-footing around and just use Leopard if it comes installed when you buy, and if not, purchase the update when you feel the need to.

Originally Posted by lkrupp

According to all the Mac forums, blogs, web sites, et al, the iPhone is an unmitigated disaster that works for no one, satisfies no one, can't do anything right, turns into a brick. Apple is being sued on a daily basis for billions of dollars. If that's correct then nobody is buying them so how does that hurt Nokia? Please, somebody, explain this to me. I must be misinterpreting all the negative comments, sites, blogs, rants, lawsuits or something. Help!

Speaking of a rant..., ahem. Even if hundreds of people are complaining, so what. If people can't understand how to use a device as it's intended then they should have been swallowed at conception. BTW, out of all the people I know with an iPhone, all are throughly impressed; plus when my contract is up I will be switching providers solely to own an iPhone.

[S10]

Originally Posted by lkrupp

According to all the Mac forums, blogs, web sites, et al, the iPhone is an unmitigated disaster that works for no one, satisfies no one, can't do anything right, turns into a brick. Apple is being sued on a daily basis for billions of dollars. If that's correct then nobody is buying them so how does that hurt Nokia? Please, somebody, explain this to me. I must be misinterpreting all the negative comments, sites, blogs, rants, lawsuits or something. Help!

Just ignore these messages, like 95% of iPhone buyers do.
Only a small % of actual users have problems, but they are also the loudest ones.
I have 2 iPhones, know roughly 10 other people with iPhones, none of them have any problems whatsoever.

If you would base the quality of a product based on forums/blogs, you wouldn't buy any product. Ever checked car forums?

And the Lawsuites? ... laughable.

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by crees!

I can say I knew (that is, had that feeling) that as soon as they took that Al Gore crap down today that something was going to hit tomorrow. We'll just have to wait and see.

I liked the 'Al Gore crap' personally... the guy won the Nobel Peace Prize and is on the Apple board of directors, for frigg's sake.

Yeah, the Rush and O'Reilly crowd probably didn't like it, but so what? Jobs' political leanings are pretty well-known. If it hasn't bothered them to this point, it shouldn't be bunching up their panties now.

In any case, on to Leopard (which I can't run on my iBook G4 800MHz)...

.

[GQB]

Originally Posted by crees!

I can say I knew (that is, had that feeling) that as soon as they took that Al Gore crap down today that something was going to hit tomorrow. We'll just have to wait and see.

"Al Gore crap"?
Man you guys are petty.

[VinitaBoy]

Hey, don't denegrate AlGore! After all he and Yasser Arafat are both recipients of the vaunt NPP! (As were the Pugwash Conferences on Science and World Affairs and the President of South Africa, Fredrik Willem De Klerk.) Fine folks and causes all!

[jbaugh]

Originally Posted by crees!

I can say I knew (that is, had that feeling) that as soon as they took that Al Gore crap down today that something was going to hit tomorrow. We'll just have to wait and see.

Yeah. That page made me sick. Apple promoting that pompous ass. Even if he is on the Apple board. ( Anti- liberal rant deleted)
John

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by jbaugh

Yeah. That page made me sick. Apple promoting that pompous ass. Even if he is on the Apple board. ( Anti- liberal rant deleted)
John

Get used to it, 'cuz Gore isn't going away anytime soon. And if you hate Gore, then you hate Jobs too, 'cuz he believes pretty much the same things.

In fact, you might as well hate Apple too... I live only two towns over from Cupertino, and employees there that I've known confirm that it's a pretty liberal-leaning place, as corporations go.

Face it.... we... are... everywhereeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....

.

[crentist]

[TBaggins]

And yes, I'll stop helping the right-wing crybabies be off-topic... I mean, they're gonna be despondent soon anyway, what with Hillary becoming President...


.

[idoaudio]

Originally Posted by Ireland

Ok, so Leopard's coming out and I don't want to use Leopard until 2008, yet I want a new Mac. Looks like I may have to use it regardless. If I buy a new 24" iMac now, I just know it wont arrive without Leopard pre-installed, they'll delay it for a week or two, they are just that predictable.

Buy it at an Apple Store after Leopard is officially announced but before Leopard is shipping. You'll get Tiger installed on your Mac, and you'll get to purchase Leopard for around ten bucks. Then it's up to you when you want to actually install it.

[icfireball]

Originally Posted by Ireland

Ok, so Leopard's coming out and I don't want to use Leopard until 2008, yet I want a new Mac. Looks like I may have to use it regardless. If I buy a new 24" iMac now, I just know it wont arrive without Leopard pre-installed, they'll delay it for a week or two, they are just that predictable.

Bugs are overrated. Apple crushes most of the serious one in literally a week, and all the rest are at worse *slightly* annoying. And 10.5.0 should be FAR more stable than the 10.4.0

Although I CAN see why you're ticked off.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by jbaugh

Yeah. That page made me sick. Apple promoting that pompous ass. Even if he is on the Apple board. ( Anti- liberal rant deleted)
John

Keep your politics away, save it for your vote.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by icfireball

Bugs are overrated. Apple crushes most of the serious one in literally a week, and all the rest are at worse *slightly* annoying. And 10.5.0 should be FAR more stable than the 10.4.0

Although I CAN see why you're ticked off.

well, I pre-ordered the Family edition from Amazon a month age.

I usually just put it on one machine for a month to play with, and test it, but I took advantage of the discount (whatever it is).

The only thing I don't like about getting the .0 version is when I need to re-install, and have to go through updating everything from scratch, even with combined updates. Or have to check the system from the install disk. Disk Utility may not be the latest.

[aegisdesign]

Originally Posted by lkrupp

According to all the Mac forums, blogs, web sites, et al, the iPhone is an unmitigated disaster that works for no one, satisfies no one, can't do anything right, turns into a brick. Apple is being sued on a daily basis for billions of dollars. If that's correct then nobody is buying them so how does that hurt Nokia? Please, somebody, explain this to me. I must be misinterpreting all the negative comments, sites, blogs, rants, lawsuits or something. Help!

It's nuts isn't it. Nokia sells more phones in a day than Apple sold in 90. Analysts seem to get distracted by the shiny objects sometimes.

Nokia has to raise it's game on the "high-end consumer phone that isn't really a smartphone" market before Apple adds all the features that Nokia's N and E Series customers expect but Apple aren't competing in the normal bread and butter phone market at all, where Nokia and most everyone else makes 99% of their money.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by aegisdesign

It's nuts isn't it. Nokia sells more phones in a day than Apple sold in 90. Analysts seem to get distracted by the shiny objects sometimes.

Nokia has to raise it's game on the "high-end consumer phone that isn't really a smartphone" market before Apple adds all the features that Nokia's N and E Series customers expect but Apple aren't competing in the normal bread and butter phone market at all, where Nokia and most everyone else makes 99% of their money.

But, no one is talking about that 99%, not very profitable segment. Well, except you.

I don't think that anyone is concerned that Apple will sell a great number of cheap phones anytime soon, if ever.

But, if they can skim off a fair percentage of the top, most profitable segment, that would be a concern to the other phone manufacturers.

Even if the iPhone remains very popular, it won't happen at once. But it could happen after a few years.

The assumption is that Apple won't remain with this model forever. No doubt they will release models with the features that would even have you buy one.

Maybe even me!

[deestar]

All apple stores are down, looks like an announcement today...

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...cts/AppleStore

[DaveGee]

Originally Posted by S10

JAnd the Lawsuites? ... laughable.

I'll say one thing..... I just hope all those lawsuits will keep Apples legal staff busy enough that they don't feel the urge to bully their fans again...

Dave

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by melgross

The assumption is that Apple won't remain with this model forever. No doubt they will release models with the features that would even have you buy one.

Would "not having ATT as the carrier" count as a feature?

'Cuz out here in California, where ATT is very hit or miss, it kinda would be.

This is the big downside of the 'single carrier' strategy... no carrier is good everywhere, or even close to everywhere.



.

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by deestar

All apple stores are down, looks like an announcement today...

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...cts/AppleStore

Hmm...

.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by deestar

All apple stores are down, looks like an announcement today...

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL...cts/AppleStore

It's up now. The only change I see is the Leopard preorder.

[GQB]

Originally Posted by VinitaBoy

Hey, don't denegrate AlGore! After all he and Yasser Arafat are both recipients of the vaunt NPP! (As were the Pugwash Conferences on Science and World Affairs and the President of South Africa, Fredrik Willem De Klerk.) Fine folks and causes all!

Yup... throw in those commies Martin Luther King and Mother Theresa as well.
Are you actually retarded, or do you just play the part on-line?

[GQB]

Originally Posted by aegisdesign

It's nuts isn't it. Nokia sells more phones in a day than Apple sold in 90. Analysts seem to get distracted by the shiny objects sometimes.

Nokia has to raise it's game on the "high-end consumer phone that isn't really a smartphone" market before Apple adds all the features that Nokia's N and E Series customers expect but Apple aren't competing in the normal bread and butter phone market at all, where Nokia and most everyone else makes 99% of their money.

But 1 million 'free phones' per day means they're not making any money, right?
You do get what you pay for.
Apple already owns the 'must have' market (for the consumer market, not geeks.)
Soon it will own the features market as well.

There'll be plenty of crumbs in the '50 technologies wrapped up in a cell phone package' market for the Nokias of the world.

[ecking]

Originally Posted by Ireland

Ok, so Leopard's coming out and I don't want to use Leopard until 2008, yet I want a new Mac. Looks like I may have to use it regardless. If I buy a new 24" iMac now, I just know it wont arrive without Leopard pre-installed, they'll delay it for a week or two, they are just that predictable.

Buy now from the store, pay the $10 to have them send you leopard and just don't install for a while.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by TBaggins

Would "not having ATT as the carrier" count as a feature?

'Cuz out here in California, where ATT is very hit or miss, it kinda would be.

This is the big downside of the 'single carrier' strategy... no carrier is good everywhere, or even close to everywhere.



.

I think that the Razzing of ATT is overdone. There isn't one carrier that's better than any other. It just varies as to where they are bad. I've got plenty of people who just hate Verison because of the customer service, and have switched to Sprint, or ATT, where they're happier, even though the networks aren't quite as good. I like Sprint's network here, but I also have had customer support issues. T-Mobile may be better in that regard, but their coverage over most of the country is REALLY bad.

So, take your pick.

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by melgross

No doubt they will release models with the features that would even have you [aegisdesign] buy one.

Maybe even me!

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by GQB

There'll be plenty of crumbs in the '50 technologies wrapped up in a cell phone package' market for the Nokias of the world.

You put it very well.

I see people making sweeping claims about how "advanced" the mobile phone usage behaviors are in places such as Europe and Asia. Indeed, after having been an ardent iPhone user, I must admit to being a bit surprised by how little such "advanced" users have demanded of the Nokias of the world.

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by melgross

I think that the Razzing of ATT is overdone. There isn't one carrier that's better than any other. It just varies as to where they are bad.

Trust me Mel (and you know how much I know about cellular stuff), all carriers are decidedly NOT the same, and some are better than others. And ATT is still nowhere near the best.

While its true that no carrier has great service everywhere, its also very much mistaken to think its a toss-up overall. Say there's 100 Top markets in the US. Say Verizon is bad in 9 of them, Sprint is bad in 21 of them, T-Mobile is bad in 26, and ATT is bad in 18 of them. Okay, so all the national carriers are bad somewhere. Does that mean that they're all equal? Nope. And its pretty easy to look at things like churn rates and figure out that they're not all equally good either.

And again, the fact that no carrier is good everywhere is a big argument AGAINST Apple's single-carrier strategy. How many ppl live in ATT poor coverage areas, but would like to get an iPhone? A significant amount, without question.

While ATT is (slowly) improving, they are not the best by any important metric anyone cares to mention (churn rates, customer care, national call quality surveys, 3G coverage, etc). They are 'average', and might not even rank that high but for the continued amazing implosion occurring at Sprint right now (whose CEO recently was forced to resign for poor company performance, amid expected heavy postpaid subscriber losses).

I don't know if laying out the 411 on this truly constitutes razzing, but that's where we are with ATT right now. To me, and not a few others, that two-year carrier exclusivity period can't run out too soon (yeah yeah, we know "It's five years!"... no, it's not... it's two, with an option to go five, as some news coverage has said, though ATT and Apple have remained intentionally coy).

...

[eldernorm]

Originally Posted by jamilio

A question for you apple veterans:

I'm new to mac, I have delayed getting a macbook pro until Leopard's release because I don't want to fork over the $130 for the upgrade. There is an apple store just a couple miles from me, and I'd like to buy my mbp there (as opposed to store.apple.com). According to history, when will Leopard be *installed* and ready to be bought on new macs in stores?

consider buying from one of the better mac online stores. MacMall, MacZone, MacConnection. You can specifi that you want the Mac with Leopard.

I have used these guys for years and always had great luck. Plus, you can get extra memory, drives, etc installed much cheaper.

Elder Norm