Apple and T-Mobile unveil iPhone rate plans for Germany

[AppleInsider]

Apple and T-Mobile on Monday announced three rate plans for iPhone in Germany, starting at €49 per month for a plan that includes 100 minutes.

All three "iPhone Complete" plans include unlimited data, Visual Voicemail and access to T-Mobile’s more than 8,000 Wi-Fi HotSpots in Germany. iPhone customers can choose the plan that’s right for them based on the amount of voice minutes and SMS text messages they plan to use each month.

A €49 "Complete M" plan will include 100 minutes and 40 SMS messages, while a €69 "Complete L" option will offer 200 minutes and 150 SMS messages. T-Mobile will also offer a "Complete XL" plan for €89, which includes 1000 minutes and 300 text messages. Additional minutes will be billed at €0.39/minute in the Complete L and M plans and €0.29/minute in the XL plan. Additional text messages cost €0.29.

"We’re thrilled to be partnering with T-Mobile and can’t wait to start selling the iPhone in Germany in just a few short weeks," said Philip Schiller, Apple’s senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing. "Starting at just €49 per month, we think these three rate plans give customers the flexibility to experience all of iPhone’s revolutionary features at affordable and competitive prices."

By the end of 2007, T-Mobile will be the only network operator in Germany to offer EDGE throughout almost its entire GSM network. With 20,000 HotSpots worldwide, T-Mobile is also the biggest Wi-Fi provider in the world. Over 8,000 of those HotSpots are in Germany, where HotSpot users can achieve download speeds of up to 11 megabits per second, the carrier said.

iPhone is scheduled to go on sale on November 9 and will be sold in Germany through Telekom Shops of Deutsche Telekom and the T-Mobile web shop. iPhone requires a new 2-year T-Mobile rate plan and will be available in an 8GB model for €399 including V.A.T. and will work with either a PC or Mac.



iPhone activation will require an Internet connection; an iTunes Store account or a major credit card; the latest version of iTunes available at www.itunes.de and a PC or Mac with a USB 2.0 port and one of the following operating systems: Mac OS X v10.4.10 or later; Windows XP Home or Professional with Service Pack 2 or later; or Windows Vista Home Premium, Business, Enterprise or Ultimate Edition.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[mdriftmeyer]

Painful.

[fotobahn]

Since T-Mobile is in many countries. What would happen if one were to use a US T-Mobile SIM?

[AtomicGarden]

good luck t-mobile then

these rates are indeed overpriced - with blau - a different german provider, operating in the e-plus network I pay 5 cent /minute when I call a blau number, 15 cent to all other networks (including land line calls) and 10cent per sms...

oh, and it's pay-as-you-go, no contract... hehe, t-mobile are greedy people, yes they are...

[CommonSense]

Originally Posted by fotobahn

Since T-Mobile is in many countries. What would happen if one were to use a US T-Mobile SIM?

It won't work. From a SIM card point of view, each T-Mobile variant is effectively a distinct GSM carrier. I wish it weren't like that; then I could use an "orthodox" iPhone instead of my unlocked one for T-Mobile in the US.

The thing I'm really waiting for is for the firmware of the unlocked edition of France's iPhone (or more specifically, its baseband firmware) to "mysteriously" leak out to the Internet so we can enjoy a legitimate, Apple-originated, unlocked iPhone. :-)

[saschke]

I've seen this coming. This is ridiculous. Happy to be on o2-de with my fully unlocked 1.1.1. iPhone!

[Thorsten]

Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer

Painful.

Yes absolutly.

I was so looking forward to getting an iPhone.
But with these prices they cna ust forgeet it.

The prices for the plans are actually not so bad, but the prices for minutes and SMS after the included ones are used up are rediculous.
Also no carrying over of minutes, and the throtled EDGE is also really annoying.
Edge is already slow you odn't need ot make it slower!!!

[ZGerman]

What sort of taxes do people pay on phone service in Europe? Do these prices include the taxes (if any?)

In the US we often pay taxes approaching 20% of the price of the plan. These include federal, state and local (city) taxes. In Chicago area of Illinois I am paying $71.11 for my $59 iPhone plan. (350 minutes, 200 SMS, unlimited data, but NO WiFi "hot-spot" services")

Every price in Germany usually means that all taxes are included. That's why you might see some German tourists counting their money in the supermarket and then whining that the prices of their vegetables were without taxes... in Germany, they would have been able to come to the correct amount (to the single cent) by simply adding the price tags. Maybe you will see something like this around you soon

Cheers.

[JeffDM]

What sort of taxes do people pay on phone service in Europe? Do these prices include the taxes (if any?)

In the US we often pay taxes approaching 20% of the price of the plan. These include federal, state and local (city) taxes. In Chicago area of Illinois I am paying $71.11 for my $59 iPhone plan. (350 minutes, 200 SMS, unlimited data, but NO WiFi "hot-spot" services")

Really? I'm paying about 10%, but I don't live in a major metro area.

[gsteeno]

How difficult is Visual Voice to implement? It sounded like it was a lot of work of both Apple's end and Cingular's / ATT's end to make that come together. (At least that's the impression I got from the January keynote with Steve and Stan.) Apple just recently announced T-Mobile as a partner, and it's already Visual Voice ready?! I guess that's impressive.

And Visual Voice, I thought, is an ATT exclusive. How did T-Mobile get it (regardless of country of use)? I would think ATT would be pissed sharing intellectual property.

[anantksundaram]

Hmmm.... I am waiting to hear from all our "we're-oh-so-advanced-and-inexpensive" European brethren to explain how T-Mobile can get away with these prices!

By comparison, I can say that I am getting a great deal from my $60 (= 41.67 euros) ATT iPhone plan: 200 SMS, 450 day+3000 wknd & nite mins, and unlimited data.

Can't wait to hear the entrails of the plans in France and the UK. I have no doubt there are a couple of more surprises waiting to happen!

[tonton]

Originally Posted by gsteeno

And Visual Voice, I thought, is an ATT exclusive. How did T-Mobile get it (regardless of country of use)? I would think ATT would be pissed sharing intellectual property.

If there's any proprietary technology associated with providing visual voicemail service, it's owned by Apple, not AT&T.

[gsteeno]

Originally Posted by tonton

If there's any proprietary technology associated with providing visual voicemail service, it's owned by Apple, not AT&T.

Hmmm....Maybe. But it was clear that V-Voice was a joint collaboration that could not have happened without both parties. I can't see Apple with the "back-end know-how" on the network side to completely own the entire intellectual piece. But, I can see Apple leveraging the iPhone's power with ATT and (strongly) negotiating to share that technology outside the US.

It's still boggles my mind that it was implemented in Deutschland so quickly.

[petermac]

These prices are double what I would be prepared to pay. Buying the phone is not the obstacle, its these rate plans. I think the plans are being prepared in light of what they think Germans will pay, erring on the high side, they can always drop the price, if their post release market research shows it is the plan rates that will kill adoption. Just look at the price of iTunes around the world. There is no level playing field here.
Pete

[bluedalmatian]

why is apple so hell bent on restricting the iphone to these overpriced,locked in contracts? doesnt it want to sell as many hardware units as possible? im a shareholder and i have grave conerns about this

[AtomicGarden]

good morning

it's because t-mobile is one of the most expensive providers in germany. they always were - not only are their mobile phone rates overpriced, but their land line calls where hideous until competition started back in 1998. that's what you get with monopolies running any market. there are way cheaper rates out there, most on the e-plus network. i personally would never do the switch to t-mobile, just because this company is still way to influential over here.

cheers,
jan

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

Hmmm.... I am waiting to hear from all our "we're-oh-so-advanced-and-inexpensive" European brethren to explain how T-Mobile can get away with these prices!

By comparison, I can say that I am getting a great deal from my $60 (= 41.67 euros) ATT iPhone plan: 200 SMS, 450 day+3000 wknd & nite mins, and unlimited data.

Can't wait to hear the entrails of the plans in France and the UK. I have no doubt there are a couple of more surprises waiting to happen!

[Julien]

Okay, they are obviously nuts at T-Mobile Germany!

I'm in neighboring Austria and pay 29 euros per month (taxes included) for 1,000 free minutes into each of the networks I call (1,000 mins. for T-Mobile, 1,000 mins. for Orange, 1,000 mins. for my mailbox, 1,000 mins. for "old style phones etc.). Free email forwarding and 100 SMS messages are also included.

So far, there's no legal way to get an iPhone here though. Still, I really cannot understand how anybody is willing to pay such insane prices as the ones T-Mobile Germany announced I doubt that the iPhone is going to be successful there this way.

Then again, I never quite understood Apple's strategy with these exclusive partnerships. That was the only way of getting a share of the ongoing customer payments, I guess. Too bad :-(

[Thorsten]

Originally Posted by AtomicGarden

good morning

it's because t-mobile is one of the most expensive providers in germany. they always were - not only are their mobile phone rates overpriced, but their land line calls where hideous until competition started back in 1998. that's what you get with monopolies running any market. there are way cheaper rates out there, most on the e-plus network. i personally would never do the switch to t-mobile, just because this company is still way to influential over here.

cheers,
jan

Yeah your right, I used to have 1&1 (a diffrent provider), for Internet and Voip, but now I am back with T-com, cause lets face it, they are really the only onces who offer the real phone, and their pries are now about the same as everybody else offers for Voip.
Arcor cannot be called a competition.

And the things they offer a pretty good, flatrate for Internet,, IPTV, flatrate to all countires bordered with Germany, Flatrate at all HotSpots.
Flatrate to all landline within Germany.
So for now I am happy with T-com.

But I hate T-Mobile for what they did to the iPhone.

[spezi]

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

Hmmm.... I am waiting to hear from all our "we're-oh-so-advanced-and-inexpensive" European brethren to explain how T-Mobile can get away with these prices!

By comparison, I can say that I am getting a great deal from my $60 (= 41.67 euros) ATT iPhone plan: 200 SMS, 450 day+3000 wknd & nite mins, and unlimited data.

I don't know how US prices really compare to European/German prices. But in any case I don't think that the T-Mobile rates for the iPhone are very good.

There are a few things to consider, however:

1. All consumer prices in Germany have to include the VAT. So the prices quoted here include 19% VAT.
2. Incoming calls are free.
3. Comparing Dollar/Euro prices is always skewed by the current exchange rate. The Dollar is weak now, so US prices transfered to Euro are cheap. 5 years ago, US$ and Euro were around parity. So your $60 plan would have been 70 Euro (incl. VAT), Whether a plan is affordable or not depends more on the income level of the local population. A comparison I am not able to make.

[G-News]

They're not going to sell too many iPhones that way. Switzerland is generally one of the most expensive places for mobile telephony, but compared to these prices, we're calling almost for free.
0.29 euro for an SMS? That's around 40-45 Rappen, compared to 10-20 Rappen per SMS on average here.
I'm sorry Apple, but if you think you can cut the same deal here in Switzerland, I won't be buying an iPhone.
Making money is good, screwing your customers is a different story.

[saschke]

Considering these rate plans, I think I will stay in an elite minority as an iPhone owner here in Germany... And I CAN go without Visual Voicemail..

[pach]

You forgot to say the the transfers are limited:

Plan M: 200MB
Plan L: 1Gig
Plan XL: 5Gig

If you reach the limit, the speed is limited to:
64Kbit/s download
16Kbit/s upload
And is not clear if the use of the their hotspots will count as part of this transfer.

ALL THIS REALLY SUCKS!

[Thorsten]

No it does not count as part of that transfer.
I read it somewhere on T-Mobile don't rember where

[pach]

Anyways this is not what I would call UNLIMITED DATA TRANSFER

[Amorya]

Originally Posted by pach

Anyways this is not what I would call UNLIMITED DATA TRANSFER

Heh. In England, O2's iPhone plan is 200MB/month transfer... on all three plans (as far as I'm aware).

5 gig is pretty generous. I could live with 1 gig without too much trouble. But 0.2 gig? Better not use that youtube feature...

Amorya

[Thorsten]

Originally Posted by Amorya

Heh. In England, O2's iPhone plan is 200MB/month transfer... on all three plans (as far as I'm aware).

5 gig is pretty generous. I could live with 1 gig without too much trouble. But 0.2 gig? Better not use that youtube feature...

Amorya

Really it ssays unlimited here http://www.o2.co.uk/iPhone-Tariffs.html

But some kind of fair usuage policy applies whats that?

[Smircle]

Wow, this is daylight robbery

I have no problem with the 399 EUR, but T-Mobile really overcharges on the textmessages and overtime minutes. No way I'm going to buy an iPhone right now. Unfortunately this probably means I won't buy one the next three years...

[pach]

Originally Posted by Amorya

Heh. In England, O2's iPhone plan is 200MB/month transfer... on all three plans (as far as I'm aware).

5 gig is pretty generous. I could live with 1 gig without too much trouble. But 0.2 gig? Better not use that youtube feature...

Amorya

This is what says in their Fair use policy:

"What about excessive network usage?
There is no limit on the monthly network usage. However if we feel that your activities are so excessive that other customers are detrimentally affected, we may give you a written warning (by email or otherwise). In extreme circumstances, if the levels of activity do not immediately decrease after the warning, we may terminate or suspend your Services"

Source:
http://www.o2.co.uk/termsconditions/broadband
(click in Fair and acceptable usage policy terms & conditions)

No sure if this is what applies to the Iphone tho

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by pach

This is what says in their Fair use policy:

"What about excessive network usage?
There is no limit on the monthly network usage. However if we feel that your activities are so excessive that other customers are detrimentally affected, we may give you a written warning (by email or otherwise). In extreme circumstances, if the levels of activity do not immediately decrease after the warning, we may terminate or suspend your Services"

Source:
http://www.o2.co.uk/termsconditions/broadband
(click in Fair and acceptable usage policy terms & conditions)

No sure if this is what applies to the Iphone tho

It would not surprise me. AT&T's iPhone policies are often exceptions to their standard policy.

[Thorsten]

Originally Posted by pach

This is what says in their Fair use policy:

"What about excessive network usage?
There is no limit on the monthly network usage. However if we feel that your activities are so excessive that other customers are detrimentally affected, we may give you a written warning (by email or otherwise). In extreme circumstances, if the levels of activity do not immediately decrease after the warning, we may terminate or suspend your Services"

Source:
http://www.o2.co.uk/termsconditions/broadband
(click in Fair and acceptable usage policy terms & conditions)

No sure if this is what applies to the Iphone tho

Well it does apply to the iPhone in the UK, and no thats not the same thing as in Germany.
In germany you do not get a letter in Germany, in Germany they just slow down your internet to ISDN speeds once you reach a specific limit

[RolandG]

Originally Posted by gsteeno

How difficult is Visual Voice to implement?

If the voicemail system's back-end has been well implemented one needs to swap the voice-based front-end with a web-based.

[cameronj]

Originally Posted by bluedalmatian

why is apple so hell bent on restricting the iphone to these overpriced,locked in contracts? doesnt it want to sell as many hardware units as possible? im a shareholder and i have grave conerns about this

Apple's money is in the monthly plans, not in the hardware sale. By far.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by cameronj

Apple's money is in the monthly plans, not in the hardware sale. By far.

Best estimates are that Apple gets around $15/month, which is $360 over two years. Compare that to $399 at one time...

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by AtomicGarden

good morning

it's because t-mobile is one of the most expensive providers in germany. they always were - not only are their mobile phone rates overpriced, but their land line calls where hideous until competition started back in 1998. that's what you get with monopolies running any market. there are way cheaper rates out there, most on the e-plus network. i personally would never do the switch to t-mobile, just because this company is still way to influential over here.

cheers,
jan

So, why are they still way too influential, despite being one of the most expensive in Germany?

[Ireland]

Good God that's a fucking rip-off.

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by Ireland

Good God that's a fucking rip-off.

In what way?

[aegisdesign]

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

Hmmm.... I am waiting to hear from all our "we're-oh-so-advanced-and-inexpensive" European brethren to explain how T-Mobile can get away with these prices!

By comparison, I can say that I am getting a great deal from my $60 (= 41.67 euros) ATT iPhone plan: 200 SMS, 450 day+3000 wknd & nite mins, and unlimited data.

Can't wait to hear the entrails of the plans in France and the UK. I have no doubt there are a couple of more surprises waiting to happen!

T-Mobile Germany are very expensive. So are O2 in the UK though not so much as T-Mobile Germany. Add to that Apple's kickback from the carrier and the contracts are extortionate.

If you want something advanced and inexpensive, buy a Nokia or SE not an Apple. You'll get a free phone, better contract and more advanced handset.

[Thorsten]

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

So, why are they still way too influential, despite being one of the most expensive in Germany?

Well why are people still using Windows?
Or Apple for that matter, its also expensive after all.

T-Mobile is first of all teh standard choice as it was the monopoly of the state, and for landline t-Com still has this monopol you usually don't have a choice and have to use T-Com if you want a proper landline.

So its just in people's heads to use T-Mobile.

Also By law they have to have the most wide network and cover all of Germany.

Other providers like E-Plus only cover metropolitan areas, and even there usually not so well.

So T-Mobile has a lot of investments but also the best coverage.

Some people appreciate that and prefer to pay more to get the best coverage.

And 3rdly E-Plus and Vodafone themselves are actually not that cheap, and there are actually some good contracts from T-Mobile which are not offered for the iPhone.

The realyl cheap providers, run under other names but use the E-Plus network those include, Aldi, Lidle, Simyo, Blau, Base and probaly a lot more.

[spezi]

Originally Posted by Thorsten

T-Mobile is first of all teh standard choice as it was the monopoly of the state, and for landline t-Com still has this monopol you usually don't have a choice and have to use T-Com if you want a proper landline.

So its just in people's heads to use T-Mobile.

That is true for fixed line phones, but I don't think it's true for mobile phones. When GSM started in 1992, there was competition right from the start (and before GSM, normal people would not even think of getting a mobile phone). And for the first couple of years, D2 (later bought by Vodafone) was actually the market leader. T-Mobile got into the lead position only later.

Also By law they have to have the most wide network and cover all of Germany.

I never heard of that. The license conditions are similar for all license holders. They had to cover a certain percentage of the population within a certain time. You probably confuse that with the fixed line service (T-Com has to give you an ISDN land line wherever you are in Germany, for the same price).

Other providers like E-Plus only cover metropolitan areas, and even there usually not so well.

You call that "covering metropolitan areas"? :
http://www.gsmworld.com/cgi-bin/ni_map.pl?cc=de&net=ep

I often hear that T-Mobile is better on the countryside than Eplus, but saying Eplus only covers metropolitan areas is really a bit unfair...

[Ireland]

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

In what way?

In cost.