T-Mobile Germany to sell unlock iPhones without contract

[AppleInsider]

Deutsche Telekom mobile arm T-Mobile Germany said Wednesday it will temporarily comply with a court order by selling an unlocked version of Apple Inc.'s iPhone that will also not require customers to sign a two-year contract.

However, those customers who wish to opt out of a T-Mobile service contract will find themselves paying more than twice as much for the Apple handset.

Effective immediately, T-Mobile said it will begin offering the unlocked iPhone, which can function on other wireless networks, for 999 euros ($1,470). It will also continue to sell a version tied to its own network with a two year service contract for 399 euros ($590).

The move is meant to comply with a temporary injunction handed down by a Hamburg court on Monday after rival Vodafone Deutschland asked the court to review T-Mobile's exclusive marketing rights to the iPhone in Germany, which it believes are in breach of local laws.

T-Mobile, in conjunction with Apple, launched the touch-screen mobile handset and Internet communications device on November 9th. The deal between the two companies was meant to be exclusive, where T-Mobile would be the only German carrier to offer the device in return for handing over a portion of its service revenues to Apple.

As part of its decision to comply with the court's order, T-Mobile also said Wednesday that it will provide unlock codes free of charge to customers who had previously purchased an iPhone, allowing them to use their phone on other wireless networks.

T-Mobile plans to appeal the temporary injunction, but said it will abide by the court's ruling to open the iPhone until the legal situation is resolved.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[Sedicivalvole]

Here it begins then..

At around €1000 so £700 nice why not just bump it up to €1500 so it hits the £1000 mark so we can archive this Vodafone tantrum

[freelander51]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Deutsche Telekom mobile arm T-Mobile Germany said Wednesday it will temporarily comply with a court order by selling an unlocked version of Apple Inc.'s iPhone that will also not require customers to sign a two-year contract.

However, those customers who wish to opt out of a T-Mobile service contract will find themselves paying more than twice as much for the Apple handset.

Effective immediately, T-Mobile said it will begin offering the unlocked iPhone, which can function on rival wireless networks, for 999 euros ($1,470). It will also continue to sell a version tied to its own network with a two year service contract for 399 euros ($590).

Developing...

As I pointed out in my previous post T-Mobile goes one step further : All phone bought AFTER Nov. 19th with a T-Mobile contract will be unlocked free of charge as well. This actually offers quite some interesting perspectives :
ie I buy a iPhone with a contract, get it de-SIM locked, use the SIM in a (say) N95 (as the data flatrate including the hotspots is actually quite attractive) and sell th iPhone unlocked on eBay.

Or get the phone unlocked and then cancel the contract a few days later via a phony baloney reason.

The pricepoint of 999 for the phone is -however- quite insulting (as everyone knows that part of the deal was "no subsidies".

[Phizz]

I wonder if this, being the first ever Apple unlocked iPhone, will reveal anything to or help out the hackers.

Still, as someone pointed out in another forum, €999 iPhone + no contract is overall much cheaper than €399 iPhone + 2 year contract... Still expensive though - I'd rather have a MacBook at that price.

[infobhan]

The most interesting thing about this article is that it suggests that unlock codes are available for these devices. How exactly is this unlocking done?

[zaqarov]

I think this is great news.
Even if it doesn't reveal anything to hackers, the software to unlock it legally will leak eventually.

zaqarov

[ak1808]

Originally Posted by Phizz

I wonder if this, being the first ever Apple unlocked iPhone, will reveal anything to or help out the hackers.

Still, as someone pointed out in another forum, €999 iPhone + no contract is overall much cheaper than €399 iPhone + 2 year contract... Still expensive though - I'd rather have a MacBook at that price.

It's only cheaper if you don't intend to use it.

[Samnuva]

Originally Posted by Phizz

I wonder if this, being the first ever Apple unlocked iPhone, will reveal anything to or help out the hackers.

France sells one unlocked already.

[zaqarov]

Originally Posted by Samnuva

France sells one unlocked already.

They were going to be the first country to sell unlocked iPhones, but the iPhone will not be released in France until november 29.

[Phizz]

Originally Posted by ak1808

It's only cheaper if you don't intend to use it.

Well, if you put in a pay-as-you-go sim and spent €20 a month it would still work out cheaper.

[Saif270]

The Iphone is overpriced and under delivers paying €999 is ridiculous but also riculous is signing up to a 2 year contract and STILL having to pay €399.

The thing is overpriced. Best wait till next year when no doubt the version 2 will come out with all the features europeans are used to like 3g, mms etc.

[S10]

Originally Posted by Saif270

The Iphone is overpriced and under delivers paying €999 is ridiculous but also riculous is signing up to a 2 year contract and STILL having to pay €399.

The thing is overpriced. Best wait till next year when no doubt the version 2 will come out with all the features europeans are used to like 3g, mms etc.

No, it is not over priced, nor does it "under delivers". Nokia has unlocked models that are on sale for more, with less functions. like the new versions of the Nokia 8800.

[Gee4orce]

I'd love to see data on how many people use these supposedly essential features such as 3G and MMS... My guess is very, very few. It's totally possible to send multimedia messages on the iPhone, using email - and because it's email, it's free...

[DistortedLoop]

Originally Posted by Phizz

Still, as someone pointed out in another forum, €999 iPhone + no contract is overall much cheaper than €399 iPhone + 2 year contract... Still expensive though - I'd rather have a MacBook at that price.

I just don't understand why the iPhone is the only phone out there that people insist on including the price of a 2-year contract when quoting the ownerships costs.

When I bought a Palm Tre0 700P, with subsidy and mandatory 2-year contract on Verizon, the out of pocket cost on the phone itself was $399, and the 900 minute, unlimited data plan was $119 per month. I never once read an article, review, or forum post complaining about that.

My iPhone, post-credit/rebate was $499, and the 900 minute, unlimited data plan is $79.99 per month. I spent $100 more upfront, and am saving $30 per month ($720 over contract), yet everyone wants to run up the ownership cost figures on the iPhone. What's the agenda.

Granted this is an article about Germany, but in the US, any smart phone is going to be double the hardware cost without a contract; let's be consistent in our complaints, either compare out of pocket expense for the hardware with/without contract, or include the comparable voice/data plan in the cost of all.

[Celemourn]

Cranking the price up to 999 euros is consumer rape. Seems more like a sidestep around the ruling, so they can say they are complying without taking any actual hit to their market share. For all practical purposes, you still have to go with their contract, unless you've got enough money that you just don't care. So the masses stay with T-Mobile.

Ought to be illegal. Illegal not because it's a crappy thing to do, but because they've done it in an apparent effort to side-step the court order. That's just f-ing dishonest.

C

[shamino]

Originally Posted by DistortedLoop

When I bought a Palm Tre0 700P, with subsidy and mandatory 2-year contract on Verizon, the out of pocket cost on the phone itself was $399 ... My iPhone, post-credit/rebate was $499, and the 900 minute, unlimited data plan is $79.99 per month. I spent $100 more upfront, and am saving $30 per month ($720 over contract), yet everyone wants to run up the ownership cost figures on the iPhone. What's the agenda.

Absolutely correct.

Carriers discount the phones with contracts, as an incentive to buy a contract. While raising the price by 150% seems a bit excessive, it's not that far off from what I've seen WRT smartphones from others sources.

Originally Posted by freelander51

The pricepoint of 999 for the phone is -however- quite insulting (as everyone knows that part of the deal was "no subsidies".

Who said "no subsidies"? I saw a lot of journalists and bloggers say this. I saw a lot of people assume this, based solely on the iPhone's original $600 price point. I don't recall seeing anything of the sort being said by Apple or AT&T.

How do you know €1000 isn't a fair price, with the rest being covered by subsidies (or a percentage of monthly subscription fees.)? Wishful thinking and comparison with completely different products isn't proof.

[Roos24]

you still have to go with their contract
C[/QUOTE]

I still don't get it. Who says you have to do what? Do you guys have a free will over there?

JR

[beingnickb]

Originally Posted by DistortedLoop

I just don't understand why the iPhone is the only phone out there that people insist on including the price of a 2-year contract when quoting the ownerships costs.

When I bought a Palm Tre0 700P, with subsidy and mandatory 2-year contract on Verizon, the out of pocket cost on the phone itself was $399, and the 900 minute, unlimited data plan was $119 per month. I never once read an article, review, or forum post complaining about that.

My iPhone, post-credit/rebate was $499, and the 900 minute, unlimited data plan is $79.99 per month. I spent $100 more upfront, and am saving $30 per month ($720 over contract), yet everyone wants to run up the ownership cost figures on the iPhone. What's the agenda.

Granted this is an article about Germany, but in the US, any smart phone is going to be double the hardware cost without a contract; let's be consistent in our complaints, either compare out of pocket expense for the hardware with/without contract, or include the comparable voice/data plan in the cost of all.

Yep. I've been saying that since they announced the rate plans in the US. I even built a little comparison (this is out of date as I still have the iPhone listed at 600 USD).

[vinea]

Originally Posted by Celemourn

Cranking the price up to 999 euros is consumer rape. Seems more like a sidestep around the ruling, so they can say they are complying without taking any actual hit to their market share. For all practical purposes, you still have to go with their contract, unless you've got enough money that you just don't care. So the masses stay with T-Mobile.

Ought to be illegal. Illegal not because it's a crappy thing to do, but because they've done it in an apparent effort to side-step the court order. That's just f-ing dishonest.

C

You want it to be illegal to obey a court order to the letter? How about not using the courts for sour grapes?

And yeah...who said that 999 euros isn't a fair price for the phone? If its too high folks won't buy it.

As far as the "masses"...the "masses" typically aren't going to fork over 399 euros for a phone either.

Jeez...its not like its the only smart phone out there and using the term "rape" for something so unimportant as the price of a flipping luxury phone doesn't win you any brownie points.

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by Saif270

The Iphone .... under delivers .... Best wait till next year .....

a) How do you know -- have you used one?

b) You should definitely wait. But the rest of us can decide for ourselves.

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by Gee4orce

I'd love to see data on how many people use these supposedly essential features such as 3G and MMS... My guess is very, very few. It's totally possible to send multimedia messages on the iPhone, using email - and because it's email, it's free...

That's exactly on target.

Means of communicating such as SMS and MMS will seem clunky and archaic once you get used to an iPhone.

[monstrosity]

Originally Posted by Gee4orce

I'd love to see data on how many people use these supposedly essential features such as 3G and MMS... My guess is very, very few. It's totally possible to send multimedia messages on the iPhone, using email - and because it's email, it's free...

I have a 3G phone, every person I know has a 3G phone, do we use 3G? Do we hell! The phones that implement it are so badly designed it makes 3G worthless.
Nobody cares for video conferencing.
The browser on everything bar the iPhone is utter crap.
it would be nice to send images and movies online via 3G, but its soo poorly implemented most people just dont bother.
I'm yet to find a killer app for 3G that currently exists and is implemented well.

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

T-Mobile said it will begin offering the unlocked iPhone, which can function on other wireless networks, for 999 euros ($1,470). It will also continue to sell a version tied to its own network with a two year service contract for 399 euros ($590).

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

Heh heh toot toot...... in the first story on this from two days ago, I said:

"Why can't Apple just offer a no-contract phone for 1500 Euros, agree to split the difference of any such purchases with their local service provider in Europe, and just get on with it........"

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...11#post1174711

Looks like I got the currency wrong!



PS: Of course, it's possible that I was not the only one to have said it....... but still....

[freelander51]

Originally Posted by shamino

Absolutely correct.


How do you know €1000 isn't a fair price, with the rest being covered by subsidies (or a percentage of monthly subscription fees.)? Wishful thinking and comparison with completely different products isn't proof.

No wishful thinking at alll

I am basing my conclusions on the price of the iPod touch which is, GSM/EDGE hardware excluded, a similar device. After all the iPhone was the best iPod they ever made...

By taking the price of a 8GB touch and then adding some bits and bobs for the GSM and EDGE stack (fair to assume that this costs < 100$ else Nokia could not manufactor GSM/EDGE phone for that price....), I would say that 399 Euro is indeed a reasonable price where no subsidies are paid.

The other reason is the operator kick back Apple gets of the airtime. The amount they get as a kick back equates to some extend to the amount they pay other retailers for a new customer. OK sometimes they pay more - else you would not get a N95 for 1 Euro (and a hefty 24 month contract).

But 399 when scaled seems about right. Look as well at the bill of goods that a teardown shows. isuppli guestimates 265$ to make the thing and that is 178 Euro...

I leave the maths to you....

[freelander51]

Originally Posted by monstrosity

The browser on everything bar the iPhone is utter crap.

Ehem - Nokia uses WebKit in their latest series 60 phones. Would you really call WebKit crap ? What other browser uses the same framework ? Was that Safari by any chance ?

[shanmugam]

what will happen if unlocked iPhone offered in US for $999???

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by DistortedLoop

I just don't understand why the iPhone is the only phone out there that people insist on including the price of a 2-year contract when quoting the ownerships costs.

That should be figured into the cost of owning others as well, but it should be included because it's far less useful without the service. iPhone is more useless without the service because it can't be used at all without the service, even the non-phone features.

Keep in mind that even though iPhone service is relative bargain in the US compared to using other devices, it's not the same in Europe. Your anecdote sounds like a US example, DE, UK and FR plan pricing looks to be considerably higher than competing plans.

If I bought an iPhone, it would increase my monthly costs by 50%, but that's because I don't use internet on a phone right now. I don't mind the extra cost, but I can't just leave that out of the equation.

[S10]

Originally Posted by freelander51

Ehem - Nokia uses WebKit in their latest series 60 phones. Would you really call WebKit crap ? What other browser uses the same framework ? Was that Safari by any chance ?

It's the users experience that counts, not the underlying architecture.

[jwdawso]

Originally Posted by freelander51

No wishful thinking at alll

I am basing my conclusions on the price of the iPod touch which is, GSM/EDGE hardware excluded, a similar device. After all the iPhone was the best iPod they ever made...

By taking the price of a 8GB touch and then adding some bits and bobs for the GSM and EDGE stack (fair to assume that this costs < 100$ else Nokia could not manufactor GSM/EDGE phone for that price....), I would say that 399 Euro is indeed a reasonable price where no subsidies are paid.

The other reason is the operator kick back Apple gets of the airtime. The amount they get as a kick back equates to some extend to the amount they pay other retailers for a new customer. OK sometimes they pay more - else you would not get a N95 for 1 Euro (and a hefty 24 month contract).

But 399 when scaled seems about right. Look as well at the bill of goods that a teardown shows. isuppli guestimates 265$ to make the thing and that is 178 Euro...

I leave the maths to you....

You've left out part of the equation - the wireless company's investment to enable current and future iPhone unique services. I'll leave the math to you....

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by freelander51

The other reason is the operator kick back Apple gets of the airtime. The amount they get as a kick back equates to some extend to the amount they pay other retailers for a new customer. OK sometimes they pay more - else you would not get a N95 for 1 Euro (and a hefty 24 month contract).
I leave the maths to you....

Perhaps you should look up the definition of "kickback."

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by Abster2core

Perhaps you should look up the definition of "kickback."

I really don't see the problem here. Do you have a suggestion for a better word to use?

[mgabrys]

Originally Posted by DistortedLoop

yet everyone wants to run up the ownership cost figures on the iPhone. What's the agenda.

(a) it's a product that chucks traditional contracts out the window
(b) it's a desirable product that chucks traditional contracts out the window
(c) it's a desirable product that comes the USA which is supposed to be cheap as in Big Mac that chucks their traditional contracts out the window.

So now the country that puts torture, tax returns, and driving exams into the same category-o-fun is having an uberfit over a fucking phone (seriously - if you want German comedy - take a driving test. Comedy GOLD. Learning to fly a LEM takes less time and effort.).

I've never been more proud to be an American. I had no idea that the price of MY (mere) phone included watching the entire planet throw temper tantrums and hurl themselves into the courts and the halls of govt every 2 weeks. How many counties are we up to and how many left to go?

What a deal! CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by shanmugam

what will happen if unlocked iPhone offered in US for $999???

It's not that useful in the US because the only other major GSM provider has far worse coverage. It would need to be CDMA capable to run on several US carriers. It would be better for the person that often goes overseas though, being able to swap sims on demand.

[monstrosity]

Originally Posted by freelander51

Ehem - Nokia uses WebKit in their latest series 60 phones. Would you really call WebKit crap ? What other browser uses the same framework ? Was that Safari by any chance ?

Thats all well and good, but i could put a ferrari engine in my moped, and it would still be crap.

Its no good having features if they are so badly implemented its worthless!

[jragosta]

Originally Posted by freelander51

The pricepoint of 999 for the phone is -however- quite insulting (as everyone knows that part of the deal was "no subsidies".

How would everyone know that? Do you have a copy of their contract with Apple?

It is well established in the US that Apple is receiving a percentage of monthly fees, so it would not be surprising if this occurs elsewhere.

As for 'insulting', all the stupid lawsuits from people who want everything without paying for it are even more insulting. Apple had a business deal with T-mobile and Vodaphone didn't like it. T-mobile gave Vodaphone exactly what they requested. So what's the beef (other than the usual whining from people who refuse to accept the free market)?

[jragosta]

Originally Posted by Saif270

The Iphone is overpriced and under delivers paying €999 is ridiculous but also riculous is signing up to a 2 year contract and STILL having to pay €399.

The thing is overpriced. Best wait till next year when no doubt the version 2 will come out with all the features europeans are used to like 3g, mms etc.

Then don't buy one and stop whining.

Lots of people like it and are willing to pay the price. The fact that you won't pay it doesn't mean it's overpriced.

[jragosta]

Originally Posted by DistortedLoop

I just don't understand why the iPhone is the only phone out there that people insist on including the price of a 2-year contract when quoting the ownerships costs.

When I bought a Palm Tre0 700P, with subsidy and mandatory 2-year contract on Verizon, the out of pocket cost on the phone itself was $399, and the 900 minute, unlimited data plan was $119 per month. I never once read an article, review, or forum post complaining about that.

My iPhone, post-credit/rebate was $499, and the 900 minute, unlimited data plan is $79.99 per month. I spent $100 more upfront, and am saving $30 per month ($720 over contract), yet everyone wants to run up the ownership cost figures on the iPhone. What's the agenda.

The agenda is the same as Apple has had to face for decades. The media doesn't like them and wants to make them look bad every chance they get. 'Analysts' are even worse.

My favorite was a little scheme I exposed about 10 years ago. Every quarter, there were huge headlines about sales of Mac software declining. When I dug into the matter, I found that this was based on estimates. When the final figures came out, they showed that Apple's software sales had, in reality, increased every quarter. Yet the 'declining' reports make front page headlines in the computer mags while they NEVER published the reports on the final figures. This happened quarter after quarter for at least the 3 years I tracked it.

Face it, bad news about Apple sells.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by mgabrys

(a) it's a product that chucks traditional contracts out the window
(b) it's a desirable product that chucks traditional contracts out the window

What? The contract is almost imperceptibly different, far from being chucked out the window.

[jragosta]

Originally Posted by Celemourn

Cranking the price up to 999 euros is consumer rape. Seems more like a sidestep around the ruling, so they can say they are complying without taking any actual hit to their market share. For all practical purposes, you still have to go with their contract, unless you've got enough money that you just don't care. So the masses stay with T-Mobile.

Ought to be illegal. Illegal not because it's a crappy thing to do, but because they've done it in an apparent effort to side-step the court order. That's just f-ing dishonest.

C

They did exactly what the court told them to do. How is that dishonest?

Any company is free to price their product any way they want. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If enough people don't buy it, they lower the price or stop selling it.

I really don't get this attitude where people think that they're free to dictate how companies should price their product. If you want to do that, take Steve Jobs' job. Until then, your only option is to buy or not to by (or to whine as seems to be popular around here).

[mgabrys]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

What? The contract is almost imperceptibly different, far from being chucked out the window.

Oh? I thought this little court visit was about Apple and their contract with T-Mobile and how it differs from other phones and providers.

Silly fucking me.