First month French iPhone sales fall shy of target

[AppleInsider]

Orange, the mobile arm of France Telecom, said it sold over 70,000 Apple iPhones since the touch-screen handset made its debut in France during the final week of November.

The 4-week sales total is approximately 30,000 units short of the "little under 100,000" unit target publicized by Orange chief executive Didier Lombard during a November 27th interview with Europe 1 radio.

However, in announcing the sales figures this week, a spokesperson for the French mobile operator instead told the Agence France-Presse that the 70,000 unit total was 'right in line' with its target 'of 50-100,000 units.'

Orange had previously said that it sold 30,000 iPhones during the handset's first week on the market, meaning that the weekly sales rate fell to an average 13,000 units during the three weeks thereafter.

Of the 70,000 units, 48 percent were sold to new Orange subscribers and less than 3,500 were formally purchased unlocked, the mobile operator added.

Meanwhile, separate reports on Friday suggested that iPhone sales in UK gained momentum in the region during the holiday rush.

A piece published by the TimesOnline comments on rumors that Carphone Warehouse, the iPhone distribution partner of exclusive UK carrier O2, could soon see a buyout bid.

According to the report, day traders have been talking up "soar away Christmas sales particularly of iPhones." It adds that British retailer DSG International recently issues a warning over slower than expected notebook sales. The reason DSG’s notebook sales have suffered may be that people "have been buying iPhone instead," the report said.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[IHateScreenNames]

Of the 70,000 units, 48 percent were sold to new Orange subscribers and less than 3,5000 were formally purchased unlocked, the mobile operator added.

Is that supposed to be 3500 or 35,000?

[g3pro]

Things do not bode well for Apple, and it's very likely that AAPL will take significant hits in the upcoming recession. Disposable income coupled with decreased job security and inflation will be a disaster for sales of Apple devices.

iPhone not meeting expectations is not helpful for the situation.

[melgross]

I see they're putting a bit of a spin on it.

Ok Teno, where are you?

[der passant]

The..Sky...is...Falling...

or so many will say

[melgross]

Originally Posted by der passant

The..Sky...is...Falling...

or so many will say

Not falling, just sagging a bit.

[csimmons]

Originally Posted by g3pro

Things do not bode well for Apple, and it's very likely that AAPL will take significant hits in the upcoming recession. Disposable income coupled with decreased job security and inflation will be a disaster for sales of Apple devices.

iPhone not meeting expectations is not helpful for the situation.

If Apple announces it sold 5M iPhones at Macworld, that bodes very well for Apple. Besides, Apple's real growth going into 2008 will come from Macs as much as, if not more than, from the iPhone.

The stock drop is the result of profit taking from scared investors. Short term pain is inevitable, but Apple's long term success is not dependent on the US economy alone.

Don't forget that 44% of Apple's revenue comes from Europe. Now, the weakness of the dollar is more likely to hurt Apple's revenues abroad than the US economy, honestly.

The key to Apple's future growth will be in emerging markets like Asia, I believe.

[DoctorRobert]

Originally Posted by g3pro

Things do not bode well for Apple, and it's very likely that AAPL will take significant hits in the upcoming recession. Disposable income coupled with decreased job security and inflation will be a disaster for sales of Apple devices.

iPhone not meeting expectations is not helpful for the situation.

Huh? How is 70.000, which adjusted for population and time is 70,000*3 months*300 million people in the US/64 million people in France = 984,375

= more than the first full quarter in the US and almost the same as the first 94 days in the US, and with France having

-much less developed Apple distribution channels
-a more competitive advanced cell phone market
-less purchasing power
-lesser marketing budget

and a November iPhone being less impressive than a June iPhone, anything less than excellent?

[Charko]

Originally Posted by DoctorRobert

Huh? How is 70.000, which adjusted for population and time is 70,000*3 months*300 million people in the US/64 million people in France = 984,375

= more than the first full quarter in the US and almost the same as the first 94 days in the US, and with France having

-much less developed Apple distribution channels
-a more competitive advanced cell phone market
-less purchasing power
-lesser marketing budget

and a November iPhone being less impressive than a June iPhone, anything less than excellent?

I don't know that I agree with "less purchasing power". When comparing the average disposable salaries of countries like France, Germany or the U.K. (with the U.S.), you have to remember that in those countries health costs are already covered.
But to add to your list:- in France the iPhone is more expensive to buy and to run.

[DoctorRobert]

Originally Posted by Charko

I don't know that I agree with "less purchasing power". When comparing the average disposable salaries of countries like France, Germany or the U.K. (with the U.S.), you have to remember that in those countries health costs are already covered.
But to add to your list:- in France the iPhone is more expensive to buy and to run.

I don't mean to sidetrack the discussion, but since we're talking markets:

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...%29_per_capita , the US has roughly 40% higher GNI (PPP) per capita, and I would think that includes government expenditure. So unless the french health system is massively more efficient than the US's, it's a very, very significant difference, particularly for high-end products, and even further if one considers that the US has much more rich people proportionally.

[Charko]

Originally Posted by DoctorRobert

I don't mean to sidetrack the discussion, but since we're talking markets:

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...%29_per_capita , the US has roughly 40% higher GNI (PPP) per capita, and I would think that includes government expenditure. So unless the french health system is massively more efficient than the US's, it's a very, very significant difference, particularly for high-end products, and even further if one considers that the US has much more rich people proportionally.

I looked at the list and stand corrected.

In most Euopean countries though, about a third of your salary is taken off at source as health and pension insurance as well as income tax.
What's the proportion in the U.S?
Does everbody have to pay towards a 'state' pension and can you live off it when the time comes?

[DoctorRobert]

Originally Posted by Charko

I looked at the list and stand corrected.

In most Euopean countries though, about a third of your salary is taken off at source as health and pension insurance as well as income tax.
What's the proportion in the U.S?
Does everbody have to pay towards a 'state' pension and can you live off it when the time comes?

If I'm not mistaken, GNI would include all that, as it would account for doctors' wages, drug costs, hospital costs, etc., so the only difference would be if universal health care is more efficient.

I don't know about US taxes, but a third actually sounds pretty good--in Chile the higher earners pay more than 40% income tax, and on top of that get private health insurance, and I bet the state pensions aren't as nice as the European ones.

[TenoBell]

I see they're putting a bit of a spin on it.

Ok Teno, where are you?

I'm here. The iPhone didn't meet its projections in France. I wanted to see the official numbers.

This still does not mean that sales were poor we still need to see how well did it sell against competing smartphones sold in France. Did those other phones add nearly 35,000 new subscribers? Adding new subscribers is really what it comes down too for Orange. A big number of sales is just bragging rights.

The end it does say that iPhones sales were big at Carphone Warehouse. It'll be interesting to hear the numbers.

[monstrosity]

Surely on the link posted above... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...%29_per_capita

the Atlas method would seem more appropriate in trying to establish buying power.

[DokterDavid]

Hello,
I am living in France and Holland, so I was pleased to hear the french law made it possible for me to unlock the iphone trhu Orange. I asked in the Orange shop if it was posible to buy a iphone with a Orange service and have it unlocked for Holland. No problem they told me. I asked again if it was an official unlocking service from Apple and Orange. Yes it was.
So I bought the Iphone and told the shopkeeper to have it unlocked ( 100 Euro) but she told it has to be registred first thru itunes. So i went home and registered it with Orange. It went oke I love the iphone. I went back to the shop and asked again to have it unlocked. Another shop person told me it should be performed over the phone and no i could not do that over there. So i went again back home and called 700 on my iphone. After a long time listening to bad music a nice girl helped me with the unlocking. She would send my serialnumber to apple and apple would send me the unlocking code. But at the end she told me that it would void my waranty and i would not get any more updates from Apple. I was puzzled. This was a legitimed unlocking service, not something i downloaded from the internet. Why would a official unlocking from ORANGE and APPLE void my warranty?
I have not recieved the code from Apple yet, but i am not shure to use it. Even it cost me 100 euro's to get it. Maybe i should have bought it in the US for 399 dollar ( 220 euro ) and spend 10 euro on a wih kid who would Jailbreak the iphone. It would have saved me a bundle.
Does someone known; if i restore an unlocked iphone in Itunes. the original lock would be in place. So i would have a way of unlocking and still getting the updates?
It still is a wonderful piece of technology, but my happiness is a bit tempered by the whole deal
David Le cayle France and Zoelen Holland.

[DoctorRobert]

Originally Posted by monstrosity

Surely on the link posted above... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...%29_per_capita

the Atlas method would seem more appropriate in trying to establish buying power.

Hmm, doesn't the Atlas Method actually not account for differences in purchasing power the way PPP does?

[monstrosity]

Originally Posted by DoctorRobert

Hmm, doesn't the Atlas Method actually not account for differences in purchasing power the way PPP does?

I think you may be correct, on second brief glance it would seem i misread it.

[teckstud]

First England then France. Apple should have stayed out of the cellphone business- not good. And the Nokia attack hasn't even started yet. Be prepared for more bad cellphone news in 2008. Verizon has just been rated #1 in comsumer reports- on the Today show this morning. AT&T along with Sprint at the bottom. People will not switch to a crappy cell phone carrier no matter what the phone is/does.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by melgross

Not falling, just sagging a bit.

Or, as it turns out, it's really only a small dome mistaken for a sky.

[OllyW]

Originally Posted by TenoBell

The end it does say that iPhones sales were big at Carphone Warehouse. It'll be interesting to hear the numbers.

Other sites have a different spin, Carphone Warehouse iPhone flop

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by teckstud

First England then France. Apple should have stayed out of the cellphone business- not good. And the Nokia attack hasn't even started yet. Be prepared for more bad cellphone news in 2008. Verizon has just been rated #1 in comsumer reports- on the Today show this morning. AT&T along with Sprint at the bottom. People will not switch to a crappy cell phone carrier no matter what the phone is/does.

What's the spread? All the major US carriers are pretty dismal. Verizon has a habit of disabling features on their phones and writing their own OS for them.

Last I saw, if the average was 100, all the carriers were within within 2% of that. That's not much for a cheerleaderfest.

[Power Apple]

Originally Posted by csimmons

If Apple announces it sold 5M iPhones at Macworld, that bodes very well for Apple.

Apple will NOT announce 5 mil sold iPhones. It's a malicious rumour designed by "day-traders" to pump up the stock ahead of MacWorld/Fiscal Earnings. The traders will then sell just before it's announced that far less than 5 mil iPhones has been sold which will cause the stock to tank, allowing the day traders to buy the stock cheap - and so it starts over again. DO NOT believe that rumour! It is designed to inflate then damage the AAPL stock.

[jpellino]

Apple sales not living up to spec in the most visibly Apple-hostile country on the planet?

In related news, water is wet and fire is hot.

[vinney57]

Originally Posted by teckstud

First England then France. Apple should have stayed out of the cellphone business- not good. And the Nokia attack hasn't even started yet. Be prepared for more bad cellphone news in 2008. Verizon has just been rated #1 in comsumer reports- on the Today show this morning. AT&T along with Sprint at the bottom. People will not switch to a crappy cell phone carrier no matter what the phone is/does.

Complete rubbish.

[monstrosity]

how do i delete posts? posted twice by mistake

[monstrosity]

Originally Posted by teckstud

First England then France. Apple should have stayed out of the cellphone business- not good. And the Nokia attack hasn't even started yet. Be prepared for more bad cellphone news in 2008. Verizon has just been rated #1 in comsumer reports- on the Today show this morning. AT&T along with Sprint at the bottom. People will not switch to a crappy cell phone carrier no matter what the phone is/does.

now that Im 100% sure you are wrong on. Mobile biz is gonna be a pushover. it was obvious since mobiles were invented that once the mhz available in the devices grew powerful enough to run a 'traditional' OS, then the competition would be doomed. Your welcome to quote me in 5 years

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by vinney57

Complete rubbish.

No, reality. And yes ,reality bites.

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by csimmons

Don't forget that 44% of Apple's revenue comes from Europe. Now, the weakness of the dollar is more likely to hurt Apple's revenues abroad than the US economy, honestly.

Umm (w/apologies to Wilco).....

I don't quite follow: Don't you mean to say that "...the weakness of the dollar is more likely to help Apple.....?" (As it would all US dollar-based exporters).

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

Umm (w/apologies to Wilco).....

I don't quite follow: Don't you mean to say that "...the weakness of the dollar is more likely to help Apple.....?" (As it would all US dollar-based exporters).

Not only that, Apple's stuff is largely made in China. The yuan is pegged to the dollar though, so a weak dollar indirectly makes Chinese made products cheap.

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by teckstud

Verizon has just been rated #1 in comsumer reports....

So has the iPhone! LOL.

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by DoctorRobert

I don't mean to sidetrack the discussion, but since we're talking markets:

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...%29_per_capita , the US has roughly 40% higher GNI (PPP) per capita, and I would think that includes government expenditure. So unless the french health system is massively more efficient than the US's, it's a very, very significant difference, particularly for high-end products, and even further if one considers that the US has much more rich people proportionally.

GNI measured in PPP terms is fairly meaningless for prediction of product demand.

And, to sidetrack the sidetrack, yes, the French health system is massively more efficient (compared to the US) on just about every conceivable metric.

[backtomac]

I don't think anyone here should be that surprised. Many of AIs European forum members have expressed concerns over the iPhones lack of 3g. Despite reports that the current iPhone is as fast as a 3g phone I think many in Europe are waiting for a 3g model before considering the iPhone.

Hopefully a 3g iPhone will now come sooner rather than later.

[DoctorRobert]

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

GNI measured in PPP terms is fairly meaningless for prediction of product demand.

And, to sidetrack the sidetrack, yes, the French health system is massively more efficient (compared to the US) on just about every conceivable metric.

Interesting metasidetracks--certainly more interesting than peeling layers of rather meaningless and unbenchmarkable iFUD. But wouldn't you agree that 1. however inaccurate PPP adjustments and Product metrics, differences of 25-40% are beyond the error margin and can be significant in the demand of expensive products (bottom line--the French have less money for luxury items, and this must be put in context among the other factors I cited); and 2. the incremental efficiency of the French health system might be, with much luck, around 1% of GNI (versus 25-40%), which, if I'm not mistaken, makes it irrelevant to the argument?

[Carniphage]

To be fair, any health-care system which gives 25% of it income to the insurance industry and another 25% to lawyers, is going to struggle to be efficient.

C.

[TenoBell]

Other sites have a different spin, Carphone Warehouse iPhone flop

This report says the tariff prices are making the iPhone unattractive, which I can agree that they are not competitive.

[lkrupp]

Originally Posted by g3pro

Things do not bode well for Apple, and it's very likely that AAPL will take significant hits in the upcoming recession. Disposable income coupled with decreased job security and inflation will be a disaster for sales of Apple devices.

iPhone not meeting expectations is not helpful for the situation.

Let's see, some CEO, analyst, pundit, talking head, Jim Cramer, whoever, pulls a figure literally out of their ass (using what, I don't know, a Quija Board?) and it becomes an expectation to be met at all costs? And unless the "expectation" is met the product (iPhone, XBox, Barbie Doll, Webkinz) is an abject failure? Is that how it works? Really?

Upcoming recession? Really? Whose ass did you pull that out from?

Jim Cramer, by the way, says Apple will reach $300 this year. See how it works now?

[nvidia2008]

All launches in 2008 of iPhone will fall short of target. Because in a lot, a ton, of countries, iPhone is widely available unlocked through various means. Everybody and their dog now has one.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by TenoBell

I'm here. The iPhone didn't meet its projections in France. I wanted to see the official numbers.

This still does not mean that sales were poor we still need to see how well did it sell against competing smartphones sold in France. Did those other phones add nearly 35,000 new subscribers? Adding new subscribers is really what it comes down too for Orange. A big number of sales is just bragging rights.

The end it does say that iPhones sales were big at Carphone Warehouse. It'll be interesting to hear the numbers.

We compare it to their projections, which were 100 thousand. It's well below that, so it didn't do well. we don't have to look at other phones, they're irrelevant. Now, they are spinning, and say that they really meant 50 TO 100 thousand. But, that's not what they said, so they're spinning.

As I've said before, it's not a disaster, but it's not a home run either, not even a triple.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by DokterDavid

Hello,
I am living in France and Holland, so I was pleased to hear the french law made it possible for me to unlock the iphone trhu Orange. I asked in the Orange shop if it was posible to buy a iphone with a Orange service and have it unlocked for Holland. No problem they told me. I asked again if it was an official unlocking service from Apple and Orange. Yes it was.
So I bought the Iphone and told the shopkeeper to have it unlocked ( 100 Euro) but she told it has to be registred first thru itunes. So i went home and registered it with Orange. It went oke I love the iphone. I went back to the shop and asked again to have it unlocked. Another shop person told me it should be performed over the phone and no i could not do that over there. So i went again back home and called 700 on my iphone. After a long time listening to bad music a nice girl helped me with the unlocking. She would send my serialnumber to apple and apple would send me the unlocking code. But at the end she told me that it would void my waranty and i would not get any more updates from Apple. I was puzzled. This was a legitimed unlocking service, not something i downloaded from the internet. Why would a official unlocking from ORANGE and APPLE void my warranty?
I have not recieved the code from Apple yet, but i am not shure to use it. Even it cost me 100 euro's to get it. Maybe i should have bought it in the US for 399 dollar ( 220 euro ) and spend 10 euro on a wih kid who would Jailbreak the iphone. It would have saved me a bundle.
Does someone known; if i restore an unlocked iphone in Itunes. the original lock would be in place. So i would have a way of unlocking and still getting the updates?
It still is a wonderful piece of technology, but my happiness is a bit tempered by the whole deal
David Le cayle France and Zoelen Holland.

She was mistaken. Yes, Orange would no longer be responsible for the phone, but Apple would. Apple is the one to contact.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

Or, as it turns out, it's really only a small dome mistaken for a sky.