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#1 |
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Kasper's Automated Slave
Join Date: Nov 1997
Posts: 6,159
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Tracking down Apple's missing 1.4m iPhones
Apple says it has shipped four million iPhones since launch. With just short of two million AT&T customers using the device, however, one analyst suggests that a large number of the handsets are mysteriously unaccounted for.
Toni Sacconaghi of Bernstein Research observes in a note to investors that the gap between Apple's shipment claims, AT&T's subscription numbers, and European projections should leave roughly 1.4 million of the devices to be split between unlocked devices and those simply idling on store shelves. While European sales have not been detailed in full, they're unlikely to have represented the majority of that remaining amount, the researcher says. If claims of 190,000 UK iPhone sales are accurate and are combined with official results of 70,000 French models and a similar number from T-Mobile Germany, Apple will have sold approximately 350,000 devices outside of the US -- well short of filling the gap left by AT&T's customer base. The gray market for unlocked iPhones is also unlikely to explain the difference, Sacconaghi says. For its summer quarter, Apple reported 250,000 likely unlocked iPhones in its sales figures, or about 18 percent of the inventory shipped at the time. Assuming about 20 percent of iPhones were unlocked -- a 'generous' amount, the analyst adds -- this would only account for about 750,000 of the 1.4 million phones and leave about 670,000 of the phones "missing in action," according to the note. For Sacconaghi, this points to the potentially worrying prospect that a significant number of iPhones remain in Apple's channel inventory, whether at its warehouses or at retail locations. If all the 670,000 handsets were to land at the carrier-specific distribution points around the world, this would leave as many as 150 iPhones at each store by the start of 2008. This excess stock may be partly absorbed by Apple's own inventory but could run higher still if the company has successfully reduced the number of iPhone unlocking attempts through successive firmware updates or by controlling the number of phones sold at once. If just 10 percent were sold unlocked in the last quarter, it would leave more than one million iPhones unexplained and as many as 238 iPhones unsold per store. Apple has not provided an explanation for the apparent shortfall. Regardless, the Bernstein report suggests the possibility of cooling demand for the iPhone that is at least partly masked by official shipment numbers, which only indicate the number of products leaving the company's factories. "This is negative in two ways," Sacconaghi elaborates. "It indicates end-user demand for iPhone is lower than many investors may think based on Apple's [four million] sales figure... and it points to slower iPhone sales in the current quarter, since much of this inventory is likely to be drawn down." |
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#2 |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 11
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The one bit of information missing from AT&T is if they are only counting new accounts? What about all the people, like my friend who already had AT&T, bought an iPhone from Apple and Activated it on his existing account? Hmmm?!
I dumped my Verizon, paid the $150 termination fee and never looked back. This device it miles ahead in terms of usability and function. AT&T has better service in my area than Verizon does (hard to believe but TRUE). |
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#3 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: From Parts Unknown
Posts: 2,282
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Ah, so it's 4 million iPhones SHIPPED, not SOLD.
That's an old video game console trick, a la Sony and Microsoft. Shoulda seen that one. ![]() .
The iPhone 3GS-
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad™ : Wrong again, lol Thanks for listening to your users, Apple. =] |
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#4 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 262
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Reuters: AT&T Inc, the exclusive U.S. carrier for Apple Inc's iPhone said on Thursday it ended 2007 with "just at or slightly under 2 million iPhone customers."
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#5 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14
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First off, I think this is a tempest in a teapot. VERY unlikely AAPL would mistate iPhone sales results. Second, in addition to unlocked phones sold how about those sold which have not been activated?
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#6 |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 8,456
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OMG. Expect AAPL to get pounded again tomorrow. Investors are finally taking full advantage of kicking Apple's butt. Ouch.
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield, and government to gain ground."
—Thomas Jefferson Proud AAPL stock owner. |
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#7 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 182
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Quote:
Maybe when an iPhone with a 4.6 bootloader can be unlocked via software, sales might pick up again, but until then I'm holding onto my OTB 1.1.1 dearly and advising none of my non-AT&T friends to go pick one up thinking I can unlock it for them. |
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#8 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 11
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Quote:
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#9 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 457
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Probably slipping through the hands of contractors in Iraq.
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#10 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 7
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I just went back and looked at the Keynote. Steve Jobs said that they "sold" 4 million iPhones not shipped 4 million in the first 200 days.
*******
davidb1 |
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#11 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 208
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Exactly. Someone needs to cram this "analysts" head in a beach-bathroom toilet, slam the lid down and flush several times. Dipshit.
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#12 | ||
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: From Parts Unknown
Posts: 2,282
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Quote:
And in contrast, we have AppleInsider: Quote:
What's the dealio? Does Steve not get the difference, is it a slip of the tongue, or is AI's attribution that Apple said "shipped" in error? ![]() .
The iPhone 3GS-
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad™ : Wrong again, lol Thanks for listening to your users, Apple. =] |
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#13 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 88
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What about all the iPhones that were purchased and gifted for Xmas '07 that have not been activated yet, or were not activated till '08?
I'm sure Apple sold tons of iPhones which ended up as Xmas gifts that were (a) not opened till Xmas day, and hence (b) were not activated immediately for one reason or another. I was at a Xmas party at my prof's house. There were 10 ppl there, I was an iPhone owner, and 2 ppl there received iPhones that day for Xmas. One of them was my prof., and she has YET to activate it, because she hasn't been able to find the time to sit down and transfer all the data from her old phone to the new one. Obviously anecdotal, but it's a very likely scenario for a lot of people out there. |
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#14 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: dit doe
Posts: 733
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If indeed there are a lot of iPhones in inventory, that would give more
credence to the other report that Apple has reduced production this quarter. |
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#15 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 30
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According to the another post on AI, ATT added 2.7 million new customers during the last quarter of 2007. See this. During that same period Apple sold 2.3 million phones. This article states that there are only 2 million iPhone users. This is obviously not correct.
Does anyone smell FUD? |
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#16 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 464
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Apple like to keep 5 or 6 weeks inventory in the channel (they mentioned that MacBooks had sold so well they were down to 2 or 3 weeks in the quarterly results thing). At over 100,000 iPhones a week sold worldwide, that accounts for a lot of those missing iPhones. Another 300,000 - 500,000 have probably been unlocked.
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#17 | ||||
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 416
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Quote:
Quote:
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McD |
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#18 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5
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Is it in inventory?
- Steve clearly said "sold" and he said this right before a quarterly report that crushed the stock. If he lied/misspoke/etc etc... Apple is looking at a *monsterous* lawsuit. There's just no way unless "sold" means sold from Apple to ATT for resale... doubt it. - There's 1 supplier that says Apple reduced their order. Apple most likely got a second source qualified and shifted some orders to them. Apple always tries to have a 2nd source in place in case something happens to the primary. AUO is the 2nd source for the nano LCD screens for instance. Where is it then? - Oppenheimer said in the conference call (you should go listen to it) that the 4M # was right up to the keynote of MacWorld. That tells me it includes most of the January numbers. January is when most people start using their returns/giftcards to get something good/better. I'll bet a ton of Razors got traded in for iPhones at ATT. Did Apple sell 1.4M iphones in January... er no... but it sure cuts into the 670,000 missing in action number from the analyst. - Other people have already pointed out that activated on ATT by 12/31/07 doesn't mean sold by Apple on 12/31/07. Hell, my cousin didn't even get his present until Jan 7 and I was at my mother-in-law's over xmas and didn't get back home until Jan 2nd. Wish she gave me an iphone though.... ![]() Robert |
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#19 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4
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From Seeking Alpha's transcript of Apple's CC
Does this help any?
CFO answering analysts' questions: Peter Oppenheimer . . . We said that since we only have one channel partner in each of our first four countries, we’re not going to report the inventory but we are going to employ our proven systems and processes to manage the iPhone differently, or effectively. . . . Mike Abramsky - RBC Capital Markets . . . Could you help reconcile the 2.3 million iPhones shipped in December versus over the 4 million announced at MacWorld? Peter Oppenheimer Sure. As Steve indicated at MacWorld, the 4 million iPhones were to date as of the keynote and the 3.7 million iPhones that we had sold cumulatively through the December quarter were part of that. Mike Abramsky - RBC Capital Markets So would you say that suggests a fairly significant increase in run-rate since December? Peter Oppenheimer . . . we remain confident in our goal for 10 million for calendar 2008. http://seekingalpha.com/article/6111...all-transcript |
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#20 |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 11
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I just got off the phone with McCall Butler who works for ATT PR in charge of Financial Issues.
She confirmed to me that the number of "about 2 million iPhone activations" given in today's conference call was correct. Butler further clarified what those numbers mean by saying that "the number of iPhone activations between June and December 31, 2007 was "about" 2 million. It includes activations of iPhones by new and existing AT&T customers." She also told me that Apple most likely has included iPhones purchased for resale by AT&T in their 4 million iPhones sold number. She suggested contacting Apple about that. Apparently, 40% of the AT&T iPhone activations came from new customers. McCall could not speak to the number of iPhones on AT&T store shelves and in their inventory. Thank you to McCall for her input on this subject. Rich Cruse Last edited by PhotoMacUser; 01-24-2008 at 08:43 PM.. Reason: darned typo |
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#21 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,215
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Jobs said sold, not "shipped." If Apple wasn't pleased with the number, they wouldn't try to fudge it (especially right before a conference call), they just said "they're really happy" or something not mention any number at all.
So, I don't buy this anyalst's argument one bit. The far more sensible conclusion is that something between 25 - 35% of iPhones sold are being unlocked, and this makes a hell of lot more sense when you notice that Apple wouldn't answer how many iPhones are being unlocked in the conference call (check it out - Oppenheimer dodged it completely). What with the very weak dollar, the iPhone only officially available in the US, UK, France, and Germany and nowhere else in the world (yet enjoying global buzz), and it being not at all difficult to unlock.... is that really that hard to believe? |
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#22 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ireland
Posts: 8,561
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An they're all anxiously awaiting the 1.1.3 jailbreak
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Collecting my SSD iMac Fry-die. :D
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#23 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 196
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Well, here in South America...
I see quite a few iPhones, and every one of them is unlocked since there are no official carriers. You can buy them on-line and everything. Of course, you can't upgrade the software.
In the end, I think Apple should not have made this a locked phone. They would be selling a lot more of them. On the other hand, their continuing revenues would be lower. Still, I think owning the market is worth that. It's not like they don't make money on each phone. I'm still waiting for an officially unlocked iPhone. I'll wait as long as it takes. I'm kind of a late adopter with cell phones, anyway. I was last on my block with one, and still have a trusty V60i. |
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#24 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,231
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Unless the claim is that Apple is lying, this is utter crap suggesting some cheap attention-grabbing.
And, Apple is unlikely to be lying about something as important as iPhones "sold," considering how anal they have been on revenue recognition (incl. things such as the $2 charge to activate 802.11N on a $2000 computer, under-reporting the $ value of iPhone revenues, and so forth). This analyst is clueless. |
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#25 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2
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AppleInsider Should Read AppleInsider
AppleInsider's blog from earlier today states that ATT activated 2.7 million new customers last quarter and Apple said it sold 2.3 million phones last quarter. Add the 1.x million phones sold in August and September and things add up nicely. Look like Apple Insiders should read each other blogs.
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#26 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ireland
Posts: 8,561
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Dead right on that one. If they made half what they are making right now by originally selling the phone fully unlocked and it meant owning the market they it would be damn worth it. This iPhone will prove to have a bigger halo-effect than the iPod if you ask me. Although if was originally unlocked Apple wouldn't have gotten the freedom they have got.
Collecting my SSD iMac Fry-die. :D
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#27 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2
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Shanghai iPhones
Anecdotal evidence only. In the hundreds of little shop/stalls in Shanghai's big electronics markets, seemingly everyone has iPhones on sale. Not just phone sellers, 50% of all the sellers are offering iPhones. And the amount of iPhones you see on the streets is suprisingly high. If this same sort of proliferation is similar in various ex-US markets, it is easy to imagine where 1 million extra phones are. The main push was about two months ago, with each seller yelling "iPhone" as you walked by, that wave has finished, the phones now have an constant presence in the glass showcase.
A local website called taobao com will show you all of the results for online sellers, type iphone into the search box (site is all in chinese, but easy to understand the layout) and see the results, 20 pages of 40 sellers each. Last edited by shawksix; 01-24-2008 at 08:44 PM.. Reason: refinement |
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#28 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 57
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Someone will have to check Apple's 10K...
...but my vague recollection is that Apple does not count a sale thru its own channel, ie Apple Store, until sold, unlike thru 3rd parties, where shipped, is counted. If true, and one only need check the 10K, then the hint that Apple is putting iPhones in warehouses for the Apple Store, is nonsense.
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#29 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: On the High Ground
Posts: 210
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an*a*lyst |'anl-ist|
noun a person who conducts anal inspections, in particular * an investment expert, typically in the specified field of guessing the exiting size of the human (and other) orifices. * short for PSYCHOANALYST - one who is a crazy ass. * a person who analyzes or who is skilled in analysis (see below verb) Etymology: mid 17th cent.: French analyste, from the verb analyser (one who is actively anal) ![]() ![]()
OMG here we go again...
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#30 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 73
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Quote:
The question is, what would that be? |
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#31 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1
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This analyst is either a crook, hack or both! How can he calculate what number of phones are unlocked or call 20 % a generous proportion for unlocked phones? There are certainly many here in Canada unlocking phones.
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#32 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,481
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Numbers? Apples behaviour.
I don't know about the numbers as really it isn't my cup of tea to dwell on such things, but we only have to look back a few weeks when Apple was restricting sales for only one reason. That was to reduce gray market sales. That is the bulk purchasing of iPhones for resale as unlocked devices.
A company doesn't do such unless it is having problems, it just irritates your legitimate customers. I think Apple's big problem with iPhone is that they adopted a business model that people are getting very tired of. It is not that big of a stretch to see the slow change in the carriers as a sign of having to adapt to disgruntled customers. The whole idea of supplier locked phones is just irritating a lot of people. Especially when buying higher end phones. Thus we see the various unlock methods popping up and the jail breaking for user applications. It is unfortunate but Apple simply chose the wrong approach even though it has been common for some time. Locked hardware is just not acceptable on devices that you purchase and own; people are now more aggressive than ever at over coming these unnatural limitations. Dave |
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#33 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8
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Well, I have one iPhone that will never be registered/activated. My 6 year-old son is autistic, and after I got my iPhone on launch day he started playing with it and became really good at using the keyboard. Then he found the camera, and then the videos (cartoons) I had loaded, and then the calendar. He is quite proficient on navigating around the phone, and is very excited when he spells out his name and show it to me.
I thought about getting him an iPod Touch when they came out however it did not have a camera so I used my $100 iPhone credit and bought a 4GB iPhone refurb from Apple for a very good price. Then used Jailbreak to unlock it and the rest they say is history. The phone is still on software version 1.01 but so what, it works perfectly for him. It really helps him with his eye/hand coordination as well as memory (navigation up and down through menus) and it is really a great device for his therapy. He and I are very pleased! Thanks Apple and thanks to the Jailbreak team!
The former Freeway Fritz.
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#34 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2
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Quote:
Look at multi-touch tables, reactable, Jeff Han's projects, the future of more visual tactile interfaces is just starting. |
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#35 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1
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I actually know a couple people who, already have broken their iPhones, and bought replacement iPhones which would essentially go untracked, since they are neither activating a new account, or upgrading to an iPhone plan.
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#36 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,172
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Quote:
It's an excellent product but it's competition is so much stronger than MP3 devices vs iPods. |
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#37 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ireland
Posts: 8,561
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True, I just meant in theory is all.
Collecting my SSD iMac Fry-die. :D
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#38 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 164
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Aplle never reports channel inventory as sold. That's a popular Microsoft technique, which we saw in their last quarter to boost Vista sales numbers. When Jobs said "sold," that is what he meant. Now sold does not only mean sold to a customer; the phones are sold to the European carriers, for example, or to ATT probably (for the units they sell in their shops). ATT reported new customers due to iPhone, not customers who switched to the iPhone while retaining their ATT contract. And of course there are those who were given iPhones for Xmas but have an existing contract with another carrier that they need to run out before activation—who would pay two monthly fees just to turn on their iPhone?
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#39 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 88
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Quote:
Have you tried iPhysics? That is by far the awesomest 3rd party app currently available for the iPhone. I held up upgrading to 1.1.3 till today, when the 1.1.3 jailbreak was released to the public, just so that I can keep iPhysics on it for my 4 year old son.. and, I'll be honest, for myself as well. ![]() |
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#40 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 196
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Quote:
Some color and memory variations, and that's it. You don't need 50 models. Motorola's problem was not the RAZR, which they exploited for years. It was having dozens of models, yet all mediocre. |
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