Report: Apple cuts iPod, iPhone, and MacBook orders

[AppleInsider]

Shares of Apple Inc. slumped further south on Wednesday amid a weakening macroeconomic outlook and reports of additional production cuts affecting not only the company's handhelds, but also its red-hot notebook business.

Craig Berger, an analyst with FBR Research, told clients in a research note this week that the Cupertino-based company has reduced orders for its handheld devices for the second time in as many months, likely reflecting less-than-expected sell-through in the fourth [calendar] quarter of 2007, or thus far in the first [calendar] quarter of 2008.

"For both iPods and iPhones, we believe Apple was previously targeting a roughly 50 percent quarter-over-quarter decline for first quarter units, whereas, we now think the firm is targeting a 60 percent quarter-over-quarter unit decline for first quarter units," he wrote.

According to Berger, the iPod Touch has seen the largest cuts when compared to his checks last month, suggesting demand for higher cost players has fallen off from the company's prior expectations.

"With Broadcom selling the touchscreen controller into the iPhones and iPod touches, and with Marvell selling WiFi chips into the iPhone, both of these chip firms should see slight negative revenue impacts in their March quarter, though we believe the magnitude of this bad news is relatively small," he explained.

With respect to Apple's computer business, the FBR analyst said his checks indicate the company has cut its first quarter MacBook build forecast by about 50 percent compared to the prior quarter, down from 35 percent upon his last check.

Meanwhile, iMacs appear to be bucking the trend, he said, with orders for the desktop systems expected to increases 35 percent sequentially compared to previous checks, which suggested demand for the all-in-one systems would remain relatively flat.

It should be noted that Apple on Tuesday introduced new versions of both the iPod touch and the iPhone, offering double the storage of the previous high-end models for a $100 premium. It's unclear whether any said production cutbacks may have been a precursor to these new models. Similarly, it's unclear whether reductions in MacBook build orders will be offset by demand for company's new MacBook Air.

Nevertheless, shares of the electronics maker closed down $7.36 or 5.69 percent to $122.00 on the Nasdaq stock market.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[mdotdubz]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Shares of Apple Inc. slumped further south on Wednesday amid a weakening macroeconomic outlook and reports of additional production cuts affecting not only the company's handhelds, but also its red-hot notebook business.

Craig Berger, an analyst with FBR Research, told clients in a research note this week that the Cupertino-based company has reduced orders for its handheld devices for the second time in as many months, likely reflecting less-than-expected sell-through in the fourth quarter of 2007, or thus far in the first quarter of 2008.

"For both iPods and iPhones, we believe Apple was previously targeting a roughly 50 percent quarter-over-quarter decline for first quarter units, whereas, we now think the firm is targeting a 60 percent quarter-over-quarter unit decline for first quarter units," he wrote.

According to Berger, the iPod Touch has seen the largest cuts when compared to his checks last month, suggesting demand for higher cost players has fallen off from the company's prior expectations.

"With Broadcom selling the touchscreen controller into the iPhones and iPod touches, and with Marvell selling WiFi chips into the iPhone, both of these chip firms should see slight negative revenue impacts in their March quarter, though we believe the magnitude of this bad news is relatively small," he explained.

With respect to Apple's computer business, the FBR analyst said his checks indicate the company has cut its first quarter MacBook build forecast by about 50 percent compared to the prior quarter, down from 35 percent upon his last check.

Meanwhile, iMacs appear to be bucking the trend, he said, with orders for the desktop systems expected to increases 35 percent sequentially compared to previous checks, which suggested demand for the all-in-one systems would remain relatively flat.

It should be noted that Apple on Tuesday introduced new versions of both the iPod touch and the iPhone, offering double the storage of the previous high-end models for a $100 premium. It's unclear whether any said production cutbacks may have been a precursor to these new models. Similarly, it's unclear whether reductions in MacBook build orders will be offset by demand for company's new MacBook Air.

Nevertheless, shares of the electronics maker closed down $7.36 or 5.69 percent to $122.00 on the Nasdaq stock market.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

nonesense... id on't believe these reports... where are they coming from?

[flydoggie]

Well the most obvious thing about this "opinion" is that the first quarter ended Dec 31, 2007 and Apple reported results on Jan 22, 2008. So clearly whatever Apple is doing has nothing to do with the already-over first quarter.

Second, these analysts are retards. Apple buys parts from a number of suppliers. Just because they cut order for one doesnt mean they will produce less iPods or iPhones. It could mean they are getting the parts elsewhere for less money or splitting the demand to ensure competition among suppliers. It could also mean that Apple is replacing that product with something new that uses different parts. I am sure the company that used to make iPod click wheels is not selling as many click wheels because Apple is switching to touch screens. This doesnt mean that buying less click wheels = less iPod sales.

This is just another unsubstantiated opinion based on rumors and speculation that does not cite any reliable sources and is contrary to Apple's own guidance just like the stupid rumor about 1.4 million iPhones that Apple was hiding on a shelf somewhere.

[teckstud]

Again- why weren't the existing 8 and 16GB iTouch models reduced? The prices of those flash hard drives should be lower than 6 months ago! This quarter- who will buy them when you know by 3 months they will be slashed by $100? Their priceing is seriously going wacko lately.

[macFanDave]

For bringing us both 1984 and 1929!!

Recession is just a euphemism for what our chump-in-charge has got us hurtling toward: a Depression!

Between the runaway spending on our permanent war and the irresponsible borrowing our government is indulging in and the sub-prime lending schemes created by Bush's cronies (and, of course, winked at by the "regulators" who are paid to sleep at the switch), it was only a matter of time before it all came crashing down.

Hopefully, President Cheney and his lapdog, Bush, will go when there time comes (January 20, 2009; 12 noon) and not declare martial law as they nuke Iran.

I predict hard times for a while, but if we can survive, America can come out better than ever.

I can't wait to see how the Limbaughs, Hannitys, Savages, Coulters and the rest of those scumbags handle an Obama Presidency with a Hillary Clinton Cheney-esque Vice Presidency. He'll run the nice government and she'll quietly run the shadow government that sticks it to the Enemies of the State! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Lafe]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

It should be noted that Apple on Tuesday introduced new versions of both the iPod touch and the iPhone, offering double the storage of the previous high-end models for a $100 premium. It's unclear whether any said production cutbacks may have been a precursor to these new models. Similarly, it's unclear whether reductions in MacBook build orders will be offset by demand for company's new MacBook Air.

This is the most sensible part of the article. Of course one would expect them to
decrease orders on some things as they introduce hot new products.

I don't think this is bad news at all. Just normal business practices.

(Lovin' my new MBA, by the way!)

[tbsteph]

The FBR "analysis" is certainly obtuse. Does his "checking" include all suppliers of the products mentioned? I have no idea. But it certainly seems possible Apple could be using additional/different sources for new products etc. I'll give more credence to these sorts of speculations when and if Apple changes their guidance for the 2nd quarter.

[NasserAE]

Thats what happens to the economy when "analysts" try to understand engineering decisions. I think Apple might have reduced these orders to prepare for new major products update specially that we did not hear anything about MacBook and iPhone/Touch hardware upgrades in Macworld. Just like what Apple did last year with the iMac.
Researchers and analysts are messing up the economy by trying to tell people what to do with their money.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Craig Berger, an analyst with FBR Research

I've not heard of the business before. FBR is apparently new to AI reporting. Craig Berger has been referenced in seven stories, and the track record looks OK.

[maxmann]

Originally Posted by teckstud

Again- why weren't the existing 8 and 16GB iTouch models reduced? The prices of those flash hard drives should be lower than 6 months ago! This quarter- who will buy them when you know by 3 months they will be slashed by $100? Their priceing is seriously going wacko lately.

This is all about profit.. why should apple lower their prices when they have no competition for the touch? Sure, they could sell more for less - but apple is a cash cow and they are totally in control of their distribution model and retail marketing plan. Neither the consumer nor the market has yet caused apple to take pause and diminish inventory via price reductions (which will be coming in the Fall when a build up for projected holiday sales take place).

nothing is changed except that the market does not think apple will grow as fast as they did last year. I disagree.. I think they will equal or exceed last years growth rate in a slowing economy. But the market does not agree that is very obvious in the stock price.

what we have here is the impossible scenario, where a Consumer electronics company is selling more for the same (see growth rates) or the same for more (see new iphone and touch models).. and for several years in a row. Apple has yet to have a fire sale on a major product or major product category. I am hoping it stays that way - as it all means in the end they have no substantial competition for any of their products that causes them to have to reduce margins.

just a month ago apple admitted they have not been able to catch up on macs to inventory levels they would like to have. These cuts mentioned are just not likely to be accurate in size or percentage as written. This is market manipulation by bears...big bears!

they are taking high tech stocks out and shooting them now. When they are all dead we will begin anew!

D

[Kasper]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

I've not heard of the business before. FBR is apparently new to AI reporting. Craig Berger has been referenced in seven stories, and the track record looks OK.

Berger used to be with Wedbush, he left several months ago and then joined FBR.

Best,

K

[g3pro]

AAPL is at $118.74 in after-hours trading. Yowza.

[echosonic]

Yeah, I'm sure ole' Craig isn't some shill trying to drive the price even lower.

These fkkkers ought to have their asses removed. At the very least they should be forced to disclose their sources if they're going to be putting out public information that manipulates the free market.

ESPECIALLY when that information turns out to be bullshit.

[extremeskater]

Originally Posted by mdotdubz

nonesense... id on't believe these reports... where are they coming from?

It isn't hard to believe at all considering the US economy. It would be hard to believe that ipods and iphones are a priority when many Americans can't afford to keep their house.

We are close to a bare market and clearly the entire economy is in trouble.

On Super Tuesdays most states has recorder numbers in the primary that is a very good indication that most Americans want change because their life isn't better off. It would be foolish not to believe that Apple is somehow not affected the economy.

[echosonic]

Originally Posted by macFanDave

For bringing us both 1984 and 1929!!

Recession is just a euphemism for what our chump-in-charge has got us hurtling toward: a Depression!

Between the runaway spending on our permanent war and the irresponsible borrowing our government is indulging in and the sub-prime lending schemes created by Bush's cronies (and, of course, winked at by the "regulators" who are paid to sleep at the switch), it was only a matter of time before it all came crashing down.

Hopefully, President Cheney and his lapdog, Bush, will go when there time comes (January 20, 2009; 12 noon) and not declare martial law as they nuke Iran.

I predict hard times for a while, but if we can survive, America can come out better than ever.

I can't wait to see how the Limbaughs, Hannitys, Savages, Coulters and the rest of those scumbags handle an Obama Presidency with a Hillary Clinton Cheney-esque Vice Presidency. He'll run the nice government and she'll quietly run the shadow government that sticks it to the Enemies of the State! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Wow, Dave, I was wrong about you. Apparently a functionally retarded person can write complete sentences from time to time. They may be 90% bullshit, but at least they're somewhat coherent. Congratulations!

[faxthat]

Originally Posted by extremeskater

It isn't hard to believe at all considering the US economy. It would be hard to believe that ipods and iphones are a priority when many Americans can't afford to keep their house.

We are close to a bare market and clearly the entire economy is in trouble.

On Super Tuesdays most states has recorder numbers in the primary that is a very good indication that most Americans want change because their life isn't better off. It would be foolish not to believe that Apple is somehow not affected the economy.

Right. And the other sub-prime shoe has yet to drop. OR Apple is counting on another product to make up the slack caused by lower iPhone, iPod, MacBook sales.

[NasserAE]

Originally Posted by extremeskater

It isn't hard to believe at all considering the US economy. It would be hard to believe that ipods and iphones are a priority when many Americans can't afford to keep their house.

We are close to a bare market and clearly the entire economy is in trouble.

On Super Tuesdays most states has recorder numbers in the primary that is a very good indication that most Americans want change because their life isn't better off. It would be foolish not to believe that Apple is somehow not affected the economy.

Don't tell me that the problem came overnight? At least almost every retail business met or exceeded expectation in 2007. People did not wake up in Nov. 07 and realize that they can't make mortgage payments anymore! The financial sector probably couldn't cover it up anymore and had it coming.

[echosonic]

Originally Posted by extremeskater

It isn't hard to believe at all considering the US economy. It would be hard to believe that ipods and iphones are a priority when many Americans can't afford to keep their house.

We are close to a bare market and clearly the entire economy is in trouble.

On Super Tuesdays most states has recorder numbers in the primary that is a very good indication that most Americans want change because their life isn't better off. It would be foolish not to believe that Apple is somehow not affected the economy.

MOST Americans are doing just fine. The market you are seeing is a direct result of an over zealous FED and a predatory financial sector that should have been left to go bankrupt. Instead, the FED pumps in cash, devaluing our dollar, and the Financial sector starts coughing and wheezing ANYWAY, causing all your day traders and short-timers to start panicking because they never knew what the fuck they were doing in the first place.

Next thing you know, the dow is down 500 pojnts in 2 months.

But no, Join up with Fucntionally Retarded up there and blame it on Bush/Cheney.

If you want to blame Buch, blame him for trying to bail out the losers who should be losing their homes to foreclosure. After all, if anybody's going to steal your money and redistribute your wealth, sholdn't be a Democrat?

[echosonic]

Originally Posted by NasserAE

Don't tell me that the problem came overnight? At least almost every retail business met or exceeded expectation in 2007. People did not wake up in Nov. 07 and realize that they can't make mortgage payments anymore! The financial sector probably couldn't cover it up anymore and had it coming.

The funny thing is that Retail is still doing pretty well, and manufacturing is BOOMING.

Unfortunately, if one sector panics, everybody snatches their cash back and freezes, waiting for it to be over.

[Clive At Five]

Originally Posted by macFanDave

Between the runaway spending on our permanent war...

Not saying I support either the war or Pres. Bush, but if I remember correctly, war spending is a stimulus to the economy. In fact, I distinctly remember learning that WWII greatly helped us leap out of the great depression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_D...t_and_recovery

I can only imagine how bad things would be right now if we WEREN'T spending millions a day on Iraq.

Again, not a justification for war, obviously. Just an economic comment.

-Clive

[aaplguy]

I would note that the MACBOOK AIR is the best selling MAC now according to APPLE store web site, so some loss of MacBook sales is expected with the AIR clearly exceeding goals. As for the Touch and Iphone. It would seem odd for Apple to react to slipping sales by introducing higher priced models. I suppose increased margins will help offset lost sales, but the Apple model has been to be aggressive in dropping prices to increase sales. Berger is a former WeBush Morgan guy - he follows MRVL and BRCM - I would guess his insight into Apple is limited to those two companies. If these companies are being phased out of newer models ( who is supplying the new Mac Air track pad?) or adjusted for product mix he will only see the negative. Lot of bad news about Apple because it makes press - but the fact is that the are still leading the PC market in sales increase %, number 2 worldwide in smart phones and #1 in MP3 players.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by Clive At Five

Not saying I support either the war or Pres. Bush, but if I remember correctly, war spending is a stimulus to the economy. In fact, I distinctly remember learning that WWII greatly helped us leap out of the great depression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_D...t_and_recovery

I can only imagine how bad things would be right now if we WEREN'T spending millions a day on Iraq.

Again, not a justification for war, obviously. Just an economic comment.

Maybe that money is better spent fixing bridges, levees, highways, better fund the NIH, NSF and other non-destructive things.

[macFanDave]

Originally Posted by Clive At Five

Not saying I support either the war or Pres. Bush, but if I remember correctly, war spending is a stimulus to the economy. In fact, I distinctly remember learning that WWII greatly helped us leap out of the great depression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_D...t_and_recovery

I can only imagine how bad things would be right now if we WEREN'T spending millions a day on Iraq.

Again, not a justification for war, obviously. Just an economic comment.

-Clive

The difference is where the money is going. In WWII, the money was going to fight a real, hot war. Union laborers were paid to make planes, tanks, guns, bombs and bullets to defeat the Nazi and Japanese menace. They also had the Truman Commission to monitor that the spending was done responsibly and punished war profiteers. (With a Democratic President and a Democratic Congress, Harry Truman still found the need to investigate and make sure nothing dirty was going on.)

Now, we won the fighting war by May 2003, and the rest has been an occupation. Billions of dollars has going missing. Literally palettes of cash were tossed about with absolutely no accounting. Incompetence and fraud has marked much of the spending in postwar Iraq. Another difference between Iraq and WWII is the privatization of many jobs that once were strictly done by the US military. Now, you've got Blackwater, Halliburton, CACI, Titan, Parsons, Bechtel, etc. draining the US Treasury with absolutely no accountability. Even with a Republican President and Republican Congress, there was no analog to the Truman Commission to make sure the money was spent wisely.

So, Clive, war spending, per se, won't cure a Depression -- spending the money to create working class jobs can solve their problems, but stealing the money and funneling it to secretive rich corporations and the shadowy figures behind them just makes our economy worse and worse.

[faxthat]

Originally Posted by Clive At Five

Not saying I support either the war or Pres. Bush, but if I remember correctly, war spending is a stimulus to the economy. In fact, I distinctly remember learning that WWII greatly helped us leap out of the great depression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_D...t_and_recovery

I can only imagine how bad things would be right now if we WEREN'T spending millions a day on Iraq.

Again, not a justification for war, obviously. Just an economic comment.

-Clive

War spending is NOT a stimulus when the money goes outside the US as is happening now. The US sent billions in cash -- shrink-wrapped stacks of Benjamins -- to Iraq to buy good will from Iraqi officials. Google "cash to Iraq" for more. This war is not consuming armaments and supplies made in the US. It is simply consuming money being paid to foreign entities to keep our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Also, retail is NOT doing OK in the US. Check the stock prices of JCP, KSS, M TGT, etc. to see the carnage. Best Buy is about the only retailer doing OK and they will see a slow-down now that we're out of the holiday season.

[macFanDave]

Originally Posted by echosonic

If you want to blame Buch, blame him for trying to bail out the losers who should be losing their homes to foreclosure. After all, if anybody's going to steal your money and redistribute your wealth, sholdn't be a Democrat?

Actually, Bush is trying to bail out the parasites who cooked up the subprime mortgage schemes, and doesn't really care about the fools who got tricked into these disastrous loans. Sure, they were stupid, but I heard financial professionals say that the way these loan terms are written, they have a very hard time understanding them, so how is an ordinary schmuck supposed to make an informed choice?

All in all, the results of the way Democrats "steal your money" have been far better than what has occurred to us under Republican thievery.

[macFanDave]

Originally Posted by echosonic

Wow, Dave, I was wrong about you. Apparently a functionally retarded person can write complete sentences from time to time. They may be 90% bullshit, but at least they're somewhat coherent. Congratulations!

If you want to disagree with my politics, fine, but it's really low of you to make fun of my handicap. We prefer the term "mentally differently abled." Thanks.

[Aquatic]

I just bought at $131 too. Just my luck!

[shanmugam]

whew iPhone thread become iPolitics thread!!!

[zanshin]

Originally Posted by macFanDave

For bringing us both

I predict hard times for a while, but if we can survive, America can come out better than ever.

I can't wait to see how the Limbaughs, Hannitys, Savages, Coulters and the rest of those scumbags handle an Obama Presidency with a Hillary Clinton Cheney-esque Vice Presidency. He'll run the nice government and she'll quietly run the shadow government that sticks it to the Enemies of the State! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Hillary sat on the Board of Directors for Walmart for 6 years, made thousands of $$$ for it, and amassed over 100,000 shares of Walmart stock. This is the same Walmart that has been sued and boycotted countless times for mistreatment of workers. The same Walmart most folks believe destroyed small town American business. The Walmart that brings in boatloads of crap from China rather than buy from a USA-based manufacturing company.

Hillary, as a member (and later Partner) of the Rose Law firm, went to trial to defend a corporate client that was being sued by a guy who wanted compensation for finding the hind-quarters of a rat in his can of beans & franks. The firm also defended Tyson against multiple eco-damage lawsuits, although Governor Bill gave Tyson every legal break he could think of. (President Bill also handed out 148 pardons, including many to white-collar criminal cronies, on his last day in office.)

Hillary, as First Lady, ignored a federal investigation's orders to turn over papers concerning the shady business dealings the Clintons were involved in, claiming for months she couldn't find them in the White House, but a cleaning lady discovered them in plain sight on a desk in her White House library.

Hillary, as the head of Bill's White House efforts to develop a comprehensive Universal Health Care program, ran a staff of over 450 government workers for nearly two years at taxpayer expense, and accomplished absolutely not one damn thing. Meanwhile, Bill got us into war in Bosnia, bombed Chinese embassies and Red Cross offices, pharmaceutical factories, and killed civilians riding in passenger trains. Want to know how fast Hillary will get us out of Iraq? Just as quickly as we got out of Bosnia (in case you missed it, our troops are still there-10 years and counting.)

Clinton also got our own troops killed and disgraced in Somalia, which still is run by terrorists, armed militias and thugs to this day. He slashed funding to the US military and reduced troop levels to unprecedented levels since WWII in order to pay for social programs, then left a semi-disabled military to defend America following 9/11. And he failed to find, catch and kill Osama bin Ladin, and allowed terrorists to twice bomb the World Trade Center and numerous US military installations and ships. He sent troops to Haiti, and yet it's still as corrupt as ever.

And you think we should let these people back into the White House to ruin the country some more? And that somehow all the working class people will be better off with Hillary calling the shots?

John Edwards is completely right... the Clintons are closet Republicans, and are the most misrepresented fans of big business-favoring government ever. You think Bush and his buddies are bad? How did you manage to miss eight years of American history before him? Good grief, they were responsible for people being killed to maintain control of intelligence about their personal business dealings. They're the Arkansas Mafia. Get your head out of a campaign ad and wake up, fer gawd's sake.

If Obama gets to be President, he better pray Hillary isn't the VP, or he'll end up being a lot more like JFK than he ever wanted to.

P.S. Hillary owns a lot of AT&T, so I don't think we have anything to worry about with the iPhone orders totally falling off. She won't let them.

P.S.S. Then again, Hillary hates Al Gore, and he's an Apple guy, so maybe they better keep looking over their shoulders... Al's so afraid of Hillary that he wouldn't run against her for Prez this year, even though he's got 8 years experience as VP, lots more years in the Senate than her, has both an Oscar and a Nobel Peace Prize, and is a Vietnam veteran. Oh yeah, and he invented that internet thing.

[extremeskater]

Originally Posted by NasserAE

Don't tell me that the problem came overnight? At least almost every retail business met or exceeded expectation in 2007. People did not wake up in Nov. 07 and realize that they can't make mortgage payments anymore! The financial sector probably couldn't cover it up anymore and had it coming.

Of course it did not come overnight. This has been happening for a while. Like with everything it has now reached a boiling point. You don't think congress is trying to pass a package giving back over 160 billion dollars because they think the economy is doing well....

The economy has been screwed for a while the only think keeping it above water was people were still spending, they can no longer afford to spend.

Gas is over 3.00 a gallon, inflation is up, jobs are down, energy costs are up and the stock market is almost at a bare market. It would be next to impossible for Apple or anyone not to have blacklash at some point.

[macFanDave]

Originally Posted by Aquatic

I just bought at $131 too. Just my luck!

If you need the money next week, you are SOL, but if you can hang in there for a few months or years, you'll probably do real well.

I bought my first AAPL in '97 and I just bought some more Monday at $134. I've been through many ups and downs with the company, but I've always held onto it (except that 5% I once sold for cash to pay for an emergency home repair).

Very few of the big moves, either up or down, have been based on logic, but the overall trend, a steady rise, has been occurring because Apple is doing its business better and better all the time.

So, in the big scheme of things, which way do you think Apple is going in the future? As far as I'm concerned, it's mostly positive in the long run.

[extremeskater]

Originally Posted by echosonic

MOST Americans are doing just fine. The market you are seeing is a direct result of an over zealous FED and a predatory financial sector that should have been left to go bankrupt. Instead, the FED pumps in cash, devaluing our dollar, and the Financial sector starts coughing and wheezing ANYWAY, causing all your day traders and short-timers to start panicking because they never knew what the fuck they were doing in the first place.

Next thing you know, the dow is down 500 pojnts in 2 months.

But no, Join up with Fucntionally Retarded up there and blame it on Bush/Cheney.

If you want to blame Buch, blame him for trying to bail out the losers who should be losing their homes to foreclosure. After all, if anybody's going to steal your money and redistribute your wealth, sholdn't be a Democrat?

It has alot more to do they just the fed, however I will agree they are making things worse. I am as conservative as they get but we can also blame bush for pumping almost 2 trillion into a war they appears to have no end. We can blame the government for alot.

And by the way while I am doing just fine many Americans are not.

[macFanDave]

Originally Posted by zanshin

Hillary sat on the Board of Directors for Walmart for 6 years, blah, blah, blah.

It is you, sir, with the substance abuse problem.

[Clive At Five]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

Maybe that money is better spent fixing bridges, levees, highways, better fund the NIH, NSF and other non-destructive things.

Definitely not arguing that. As a Minneapolis local in a "post-bridge-collapse-Minnesota" you don't need to convince me that infrastructure is an important investment.

Originally Posted by macFanDave

So, Clive, war spending, per se, won't cure a Depression -- spending the money to create working class jobs can solve their problems, but stealing the money and funneling it to secretive rich corporations and the shadowy figures behind them just makes our economy worse and worse.

And I'm not arguing here either. But it's certainly not that internal expenditures have stopped altogether.

Originally Posted by faxthat

It is simply consuming money being paid to foreign entities to keep our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Which, again, I am not defending. If we're going to be spending money on Iraq, we should either be spending it on securing the country or on transportation home. Since Saddam's regime was scattered and Mr. Hussein was captured, this war has been managed miserably. Even if Bush wasn't intending on leaving, it shouldn't have taken this long to secure a country the size of Montana... what've they been doing over there?

So anyway, how about those Macs? (Subject change anyone?)

I might get a Mac Mini soon!

-Clive

[zanshin]

Originally Posted by macFanDave

It is you, sir, with the substance abuse problem.

yeah, I got a low tolerance for your particular brand of horseshit.

[echosonic]

Originally Posted by macFanDave

Actually, Bush is trying to bail out the parasites who cooked up the subprime mortgage schemes, and doesn't really care about the fools who got tricked into these disastrous loans. Sure, they were stupid, but I heard financial professionals say that the way these loan terms are written, they have a very hard time understanding them, so how is an ordinary schmuck supposed to make an informed choice?

All in all, the results of the way Democrats "steal your money" have been far better than what has occurred to us under Republican thievery.

I'm not interested in your punditry Dave, nor your political opinions, which are by no means facts. You don't sign what you don't read, and you don't sign what you don't understand. I am pretty sick to death and tired of people like you making excuses for the stupids by blaming the goddam President or some big bad EVIL CORPORATION.

Responsibility begins with the self, and until it begins, you are a willing victim, and you deserve what you get.

[echosonic]

Political BS aside, Dave, seriously, save the politics for another forum. We're bnoth Mac fans, lets rally this stock back up and get wealthier.

Then we'll fight about how you want to take my profits for carbon crdits or something...

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by echosonic

MOST Americans are doing just fine.

Maybe for now. But last quarter's job growth was something like 12,000 jobs for the entire US.

There were jobs lost in January 08, when there were gains in the previous four years. A net 17,000 jobs lost in January.

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Stor...B3F2DB3714A%7D

[NasserAE]

Originally Posted by extremeskater

Of course it did not come overnight. This has been happening for a while. Like with everything it has now reached a boiling point. You don't think congress is trying to pass a package giving back over 160 billion dollars because they think the economy is doing well....

The economy has been screwed for a while the only think keeping it above water was people were still spending, they can no longer afford to spend.

Gas is over 3.00 a gallon, inflation is up, jobs are down, energy costs are up and the stock market is almost at a bare market. It would be next to impossible for Apple or anyone not to have blacklash at some point.

Please.... Congress try to make people feel better after what just happened so they keep spending money, people never stopped spending money anyway.

Gas at 3.00 for more than 4 years and energy as well. Nothing much changed in the last 4 years. The problem with jobs is that many americans refuse to work in jobs used to be filled by illegal immigrants. Work is there for people who want to work. The stock market was the result a panic not an economic issues.
Expect better than last year figures from retailers this year.

[McDave]

hello!!

knock knock!


It's The-Rest-Of-The-World here. Y'know us foreigners who make up half of your market & who's dollars are stronger than ever. We all want to look after our own first but Apple's US-centricity is choking itself.

Get the iPhones & full iTunes services out there and stop dipping toes. Not that it'll solve any financial issues but AppleTV could still be the first HiDef set top box in NZ!

MS & Amazon have got it - where's Apple?