Toshiba rumored to quit HD DVD as Wal-Mart pulls support

[AppleInsider]

The conflict between high-definition disc formats is rapidly drawing to a close, as Wal-Mart is the latest store to back Blu-ray over HD DVD and Toshiba is reportedly poised to withdraw its format from the market in the near future.

Remaining support for HD DVD began to unravel on Friday morning when the Hollywood Reporter cited a source which claims Toshiba will shutter its HD DVD efforts "soon," with an announcement potentially due within weeks.

The apparently reluctant concession would follow weeks of steep decline in support for the optical disc standard, which began with Warner Bros.' switch to Blu-ray as its exclusive HD movie format just ahead of the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. Since then, Best Buy and Netflix have both chosen Blu-ray as their de facto choice for HD movies, relegating HD DVD to second-tier status and threatening to discontinue it entirely in the case of Netflix.

Several independent movie studios have also followed Warner's lead in opting for Blu-ray, with only Paramount and Universal now left as HD DVD supporters.

Just hours later, however, the likelihood of an HD DVD resurgence was dimmed even further by an official announcement by Wal-Mart that it would focus solely on Blu-ray. A statement issued by the big-box retailer on Friday revealed that the company would reorganize shelf space at all its Wal-Mart and Sam's Club stores within 30 days to promote Blu-ray alone. HD DVD products will exit the company's product channel entirely by June.

Wal-Mart's decision is anticipated to be especially damaging to HD DVD's prospects, as the nationwide chain is often regarded as the single largest video sales outlet in the US and is sometimes cited as a potential obstacle to widespread adoption of online movie downloads through its influence over movie studios' pricing.

And while Toshiba officially remains confident in HD DVD, its frequent partner Microsoft has itself seemingly scaled back its normally vocal endorsement of the beleaguered storage medium, says the Reporter. The Windows developer's technology evangelist for HD DVD, Kevin Collins, has reportedly failed to respond to multiple requests for comments.

Apple has largely kept to the sidelines during the battle between Blu-ray and HD DVD, providing small amounts of support to both camps while declining to build either technology into its Mac range.

[rain]

Awesome, now the hacker community knows where to focus it's efforts.

[Kolchak]

Wow. Can the news get any worse for HD DVD? One by one, the dominos fall. Blockbuster. Netflix. Best Buy. Circuit City. Wal-Mart. Warner. National Geographic. The HD DVD cheerleaders in this forum must be crying rivers. (They know who they are.) Even with fire sale prices, HD DVD still can't take over the majority of HD player sales and is losing so ridiculously badly in disc sales that it's not even a contest. Note that the Hollywood Reporter article says Toshiba has been bleeding money by selling each HD DVD player for hundreds below cost, something the HD DVD boosters have been screaming "Vicious, dirty rumor!" about for ages. Forget "stick a fork in it, it's done." It's blackened to a crisp.

[mrjoec123]

Weren't there a few people here the other day asking for proof that HD DVD was dead? There you have it. HD DVD has lost support from Netflix, Blockbuster, Best Buy, Wall Mart, and now even Toshiba is dropping out.

So now you won't be able to rent, buy, or even buy a player for HD DVD disks.

At this point, the only people who think HD DVD isn't dead are people who bought HD DVD players and are hoping for a miracle. This war is now well beyond over.

Which doesn't bode well for the XBox 360, which is already suffering badly. With a drive that will essentially be useless soon for movies, it just lost its main competitive edge over the Wii, and it no longer compares in features to the PS3.

[ecking]

Now how long till a tosiba branded blu-ray player to add insult to this vast injury.

[Bancho]

The one thing that helps take the sting out of one of these formats losing is the fact that both formats respective players are excellent upscaling DVD players. That couldn't be said for Laserdsic or Beta players.

[hmurchison]

Anyone have a pic of the horse being beaten to death.

Folks HD DVD died when Warner left.

You're just wasting bits pontificating about the inevitable. This is coming from an HD DVD owner.

I would like to pick up a player for $50 though. I'll be looking for some gooood firesales.

[digitalclips]

Well done Sony. Shame VHS didn't die too. Yes I know Beta went on in various forms for pros, .. I used it, but domestically it was a tragedy that 'cheap' won out back then. Not that I am saying HD DVD was cheap, just nice to see Sony win this one.

[Booga]

And while Toshiba officially remains confident in HD DVD, its frequent partner Microsoft has itself seemingly scaled back its normally vocal endorsement of the beleaguered storage medium, says the Reporter.

As someone who stuck with Apple thought the 90's, I'd just like to express the joy I feel to see Microsoft and beleaguered in the same sentence.

[Booga]

Originally Posted by digitalclips

Well done Sony. Shame VHS didn't die too. Yes I know Beta went on in various forms for pros, .. I used it, but domestically it was a tragedy that 'cheap' won out back then. Not that I am saying HD DVD was cheap, just nice to see Sony win this one.

This time they realized that fitting an entire full-length movie on the medium was important...

[bdkennedy1]

If Microsoft handles HDDVD the same way it handles everything else, it won't realize HDDVD is dead until 2010.

Originally Posted by Booga

As someone who stuck with Apple thought the 90's, I'd just like to express the joy I feel to see Microsoft and beleaguered in the same sentence.

[zunx]

Great news. The best wins. The consumers purchase now that the war is over. Prices drop dramatically. We all win.

[hypoluxa]

Finally!!! Apple can now focus on new optional optical drives!

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by hypoluxa

Finally!!! Apple can now focus on new optional optical drives!

as long as the drive is affordable. DVR recorders were nice because they were faster than shuttling data around on a network and cheaper than a stack of drives.

Now drives are cheap and networks are fast. Blu-ray will be important but not as important its predecessor IMO.

[hobBIT]

Originally Posted by zunx

Great news. The best wins. The consumers purchase now that the war is over. Prices drop dramatically. We all win.

'Best wins'?

Blu Ray is the one format which has region codes - HD DVD doesn't.
Blu Ray is the one format which requires DRM - HD DVD has that optional.

Who wins?
Certainly not the best one.

The big studios perhaps.
Clearly not the consumer.

But then again it could be argued that consumers are always stupid...

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by hobBIT

'Best wins'?


But then again it could be argued that consumers are always stupid...

Show them a bigger number and they follow like lemmings.

[Takeo]

Originally Posted by hobBIT

'Best wins'?

Blu Ray is the one format which has region codes - HD DVD doesn't.
Blu Ray is the one format which requires DRM - HD DVD has that optional.

Who wins?
Certainly not the best one.

The big studios perhaps.
Clearly not the consumer.

But then again it could be argued that consumers are always stupid...

No one cares hobit... the only thing people care about is that this foolishness is finally over.

[quinney]

Originally Posted by Booga

As someone who stuck with Apple thought the 90's, I'd just like to express the joy I feel to see Microsoft and beleaguered in the same sentence.

Yes! Beleaguered by proxy.

[quinney]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Several independent movie studios have also followed Warner's lead in opting for Blu-ray, with only Paramount and Universal now left as HD DVD supporters.

Hang in there Universal. Make us proud.

[Mr.Scott]

Anyone want to buy an HDDVD player? Heard they are going fast!!!

[petermac]

What now becomes of M$ Xbox 360? Do they release a Xbox 180, do the U turn and make a Xbox with BluRay. Xbox's die so fast there will be market space for a replacement. Also, does this news also make the Playstation the media/gaming centre of choice. I heard of some nice integration work being done with Xbox and AppleTV. Now, I believe Apple is in a position to bundle a BluRay player into Apple TV and allow me to lose one box from under my Sharp Aquos.

[ascii]

Blu ray kit for Mac Pro please

[sennen]

Originally Posted by hobBIT

'Best wins'?

Blu Ray is the one format which has region codes - HD DVD doesn't.
Blu Ray is the one format which requires DRM - HD DVD has that optional.

Who wins?
Certainly not the best one.

The big studios perhaps.
Clearly not the consumer.

But then again it could be argued that consumers are always stupid...

nice reminder.

i had reasons to be interested in both formats. whilst i am glad that the 'war' is over, it's not necessarily the best result.

it's definitely a win for the big guys as HD-DVD was (perhaps ironically) a much more open format and had less barriers to entry, in terms of authoring/production at least.

anyhow, now can someone please close that thread?!?!

[penchanted]

Originally Posted by petermac

What now becomes of M$ Xbox 360? Do they release a Xbox 180, do the U turn and make a Xbox with BluRay. Xbox's die so fast there will be market space for a replacement. Also, does this news also make the Playstation the media/gaming centre of choice. I heard of some nice integration work being done with Xbox and AppleTV. Now, I believe Apple is in a position to bundle a BluRay player into Apple TV and allow me to lose one box from under my Sharp Aquos.

This will have little impact on Xbox 360 since the HD-DVD player is an accessory rather than being built-in. Expect Microsoft to quietly make a new Blu-Ray accessory in the no-to-distant future.

[timothyjay2004]

I think that it was the retailers that sealed the fate of HD-DVD. When I look back on it, retailers, such as Best Buy for example, would run promotions that if you bought a new HDTV and a Blu Ray player, you'd get $100-$300 back. Essentially paying for a good part of the cost of the player depending on what TV you bought. Best Buy probably got deals from the Blu Ray player makers in that if they ran promotions like that to get the players out the door and a larger market established, they'd sell them the players cheaper. I never once saw deals like that for HD-DVD players.

I think it's sad that consumers really don't get to decide for themselves which they like better and want. It's also sad that HD-DVD will probably come to an end within a year or two. A lot of effort and money went into developing the technology and ability and it didn't live very long (kind of reminds me of the beta tapes I guess). From what everyone was saying, maybe HD-DVD was better? I don't know. But, I guess it has been decided for us.

[Royboy]

Originally Posted by timothyjay2004

I think that it was the retailers that sealed the fate of HD-DVD. When I look back on it, retailers, such as Best Buy for example, would run promotions that if you bought a new HDTV and a Blu Ray player, you'd get $100-$300 back. Essentially paying for a good part of the cost of the player depending on what TV you bought. Best Buy probably got deals from the Blu Ray player makers in that if they ran promotions like that to get the players out the door and a larger market established, they'd sell them the players cheaper. I never once saw deals like that for HD-DVD players.

I think it's sad that consumers really don't get to decide for themselves which they like better and want. It's also sad that HD-DVD will probably come to an end within a year or two. A lot of effort and money went into developing the technology and ability and it didn't live very long (kind of reminds me of the beta tapes I guess). From what everyone was saying, maybe HD-DVD was better? I don't know. But, I guess it has been decided for us.

What do you mean! Sure the consumer decided. Retailers offered both formats. The consumers bought more Blu Ray than HD. 2 competing formats fought it out in the marketplace and the major of consumers voted with their dollars that they wanted Blu Ray over HD. I don't remember anyone being held hostage until they bought a Blu Ray. I bought neither.

[Foo2]

As Steve Jobs might say: "one down (HD DVD) and one to go (Blu-ray)!" It will just take a few years longer for ISP speeds and disk drives to make BR obsolete.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Royboy

What do you mean! Sure the consumer decided. Retailers offered both formats. The consumers bought more Blu Ray than HD. 2 competing formats fought it out in the marketplace and the major of consumers voted with their dollars that they wanted Blu Ray over HD. I don't remember anyone being held hostage until they bought a Blu Ray. I bought neither.

WTF you mean Sony packing a Blu-ray player in the PS3 isn't forcing consumer? They have yet to prove there is even a need for 25GB games.

[timothyjay2004]

Originally Posted by Royboy

What do you mean! Sure the consumer decided. Retailers offered both formats. The consumers bought more Blu Ray than HD. 2 competing formats fought it out in the marketplace and the major of consumers voted with their dollars that they wanted Blu Ray over HD. I don't remember anyone being held hostage until they bought a Blu Ray. I bought neither.

I think you missed my point. Yes, consumers were offered both formats, but I think that more blu ray players were bought by consumers over hd dvd because of the promotions retailers were giving the blu ray players. Like I said, I never once saw promotions for hd dvd players. I too don't own either and honestly don't care to. Regular DVD is good enough for me, at least for now.

[Bageljoey]

Originally Posted by Booga

As someone who stuck with Apple thought the 90's, I'd just like to express the joy I feel to see Microsoft and beleaguered in the same sentence.

This is the exact post I was going to make!

[Royboy]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

WTF you mean Sony packing a Blu-ray player in the PS3 isn't forcing consumer? They have yet to prove there is even a need for 25GB games.

No consumer was forced to buy a PS3. They bought the PS3 because of the excellent price considering it has a Blu Ray player in it. Sony was better at marketing this time around. Wasn't there another major game system with a HD-DVD player in it? Choices! Choices! And the consumers spoke with their dollars.

[SeaFox]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Anyone have a pic of the horse being beaten to death.

Originally Posted by zunx

Great news. The best wins. The consumers purchase now that the war is over. Prices drop dramatically. We all win.

How do prices drop now that there is less competition?

You think Sony would have sold the first PS3's at a loss if there was no XBox 360 or Wii?

[Booga]

Originally Posted by timothyjay2004

I think you missed my point. Yes, consumers were offered both formats, but I think that more blu ray players were bought by consumers over hd dvd because of the promotions retailers were giving the blu ray players. Like I said, I never once saw promotions for hd dvd players. I too don't own either and honestly don't care to. Regular DVD is good enough for me, at least for now.

You must not have looked very hard. Late last year HD DVD sellers were throwing promotions all over the place. At one point you could get 5 free movies with a player they must have been selling close to at-cost. A year ago WalMart was pushing HD DVD so hard they were selling the players below $100 and hinting they might drop Blu-ray. Toshiba bribed two major studios to drop Blu-ray support.

But consumers weren't swayed, and chose Blu-ray instead.

[Booga]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

WTF you mean Sony packing a Blu-ray player in the PS3 isn't forcing consumer? They have yet to prove there is even a need for 25GB games.

No one is forced to buy a PS3. The XBox360 is a perfectly adequate machine and even has an HD DVD option. And there are definitely plans for games that take advantage of storage of more than the 4GB that DVD provides on the PS3.

No, that was pretty forward-looking of Sony. At the time the decision was derided as suicidal, but in retrospect it looks like they made the right move in all their technical decisions.

[Royboy]

Originally Posted by timothyjay2004

I think you missed my point. Yes, consumers were offered both formats, but I think that more blu ray players were bought by consumers over hd dvd because of the promotions retailers were giving the blu ray players. Like I said, I never once saw promotions for hd dvd players. I too don't own either and honestly don't care to. Regular DVD is good enough for me, at least for now.

And you think the retailers were giving better deals for Blu Ray? You think the consumer really wanted HD-DVD and the retailers took money out of their own pockets to give a better deal to the consumer so that they would buy Blu Ray and not HD-DVD? How stupid of them. What gain was there in it for them? And I remember HD-DVD players being cheaper than Blu Ray players.

Here's what happened. The manufacturer(s) of Blu Ray players were the ones paying for those "deals" you spoke of. HD-DVD manufacturer(s) could have offered those same deals. It's all marketing strategy. I think the HD-DVD strategy was to use the "lower cost alternative" and the Blu Ray strategy was that you were getting a superior product and "you want a good deal on a combo package?"

There are pros and cons with each format, but hopefully the "war" will be over soon and in the long run I think that is in the best interest of the consumer.

[Royboy]

Originally Posted by SeaFox

How do prices drop now that there is less competition?

You think Sony would have sold the first PS3's at a loss if there was no XBox 360 or Wii?

What do you mean "less competition"? Most of us talk like Sony is the only maker of Blu Ray players and that they developed it totally by themselves. Of course that's not true. You don't think companies like Samsung, Panasonic, Sony, Philips, Pioneer, LG and Sharp will compete with each other to advance Blu Ray technology and bring better products at lower prices to the marketplace to win the consumer's dollars for themselves over other competing companies?

[Kolchak]

Originally Posted by Royboy

What do you mean "less competition"? Most of us talk like Sony is the only maker of Blu Ray players and that they developed it totally by themselves. Of course that's not true. You don't think companies like Samsung, Panasonic, Sony, Philips, Pioneer, LG and Sharp will compete with each other to advance Blu Ray technology and bring better products at lower prices to the marketplace to win the consumer's dollars for themselves over other competing companies?

Exactly. Many HD DVD diehards buy into the completely wrongheaded idea that Blu-ray=Sony, period. It's so pervasive among them that I have to believe it must have been a piece of HD DVD propaganda. I have three words for such fools: Blu-ray Disc Association.

You want "less competition"? Imagine if HD DVD had won. Only one company makes HD DVD players: Toshiba. Onkyo tried it but didn't like Toshiba's cutthroat pricing and dropped out almost immediately. How's that for less competition? And guess what would have happened if Blu-ray had quit. Toshiba would have no need to keep pricing their players hundreds of dollars below cost, so "cheap" HD DVD all of a sudden isn't. Too bad Toshiba seems to have cut its own throat.

Major media outlets like the New York Times and the Chicago Tribune are calling the war over in articles today. Not just implying it, but actually having titles like "Taps for HD DVD as Wal-Mart Backs Blu-ray" and "Hi-Def War Nears End." There can be no doubt that much of the public will see articles like this and draw the conclusion that Blu-ray is here to stay. Blu-ray seems to have hit critical mass in this "war" and it can only snowball from here.

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Anyone have a pic of the horse being beaten to death.

Folks HD DVD died when Warner left.

You're just wasting bits pontificating about the inevitable. This is coming from an HD DVD owner.

This is just so funny, coming from Mr. H (short for HD DVD) Murchison. The man who insisted for the last two years that HD DVD was superior in every way but capacity (except when you would gush that the 51GB disc is coming) and would emerge victorious. The man who gleefully trotted out every bit of bad news about Blu-ray. The man who at times said he refuses to buy Blu-ray in the foreseeable future. What was it you wrote? "Bwahahahaha! Game over!" or somesuch. Well, you were right, just not the way you hoped.

[SeaFox]

Originally Posted by Royboy

What do you mean "less competition"?

As in BluRay and HD-DVD formats had to compete against each other for customers looking to get into an HD format. This isn't that hard guys.

The initial equipment investment and cost of movies afterwards is going to sway opinions, much like people may be interested in a certain game platform but still not buy into it because the cost of games is significantly higher than the competition.

With only one format, that doesn't happen. If you wants to own a movie in HD, this is what you get. They can raise the price of BluRay movies easily once there's no HD-DVD to compare it too.

In fact, I already answered this question in my original post when I mentioned PS3's being sold at a loss, making my need to explain myself even more baffling.

I'm aware there are multiple companies making BluRay players, although you should realize right now only PS3's can be upgraded to BluRay 2.0 spec. Representatives of the BluRay consortium have pretty much admitted buying any BluRay player on the market right now except the PS3 would be a bad idea, as they all will be obsolete soon.

[Akac]

Originally Posted by petermac

What now becomes of M$ Xbox 360? Do they release a Xbox 180, do the U turn and make a Xbox with BluRay. Xbox's die so fast there will be market space for a replacement. Also, does this news also make the Playstation the media/gaming centre of choice. I heard of some nice integration work being done with Xbox and AppleTV. Now, I believe Apple is in a position to bundle a BluRay player into Apple TV and allow me to lose one box from under my Sharp Aquos.

The fact is the Xbox is still the better gaming device - and that's what its point is. I bought a PS3. For Bluray movies only. I haven't bought a single game for it and never plan to. Its my top-of-the-line Bluray player. The 360 is the better game system. So its not what will happen to the 360 - its what will happen to the 360 HDDVD player. It will die.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by digitalclips

Well done Sony. Shame VHS didn't die too. Yes I know Beta went on in various forms for pros, .. I used it, but domestically it was a tragedy that 'cheap' won out back then. Not that I am saying HD DVD was cheap, just nice to see Sony win this one.

It's not that clear-cut on Beta/VHS. The movies produced at the time didn't necessarily show the benefit of Beta. A format that played 90 to 120 min was more desirable for movies than one that played 60 minutes a tape. Early on, you couldn't record a movie from TV using Beta. By the time that changed, the momentum was lost.

Originally Posted by hmurchison

WTF you mean Sony packing a Blu-ray player in the PS3 isn't forcing consumer? They have yet to prove there is even a need for 25GB games.

Nobody had to buy the game system, there were two alternative game systems, and those alternatives were a lot more popular.

Originally Posted by timothyjay2004

I think you missed my point. Yes, consumers were offered both formats, but I think that more blu ray players were bought by consumers over hd dvd because of the promotions retailers were giving the blu ray players. Like I said, I never once saw promotions for hd dvd players. I too don't own either and honestly don't care to. Regular DVD is good enough for me, at least for now.

I've seen the promotions for HD DVD several times in the week Best Buy and Circuit City ads, as well as others.