Sony in Blu-ray talks with Apple, Microsoft

[AppleInsider]

With its victory last month in the high-definition DVD format war, Sony is now said to be entertaining talks with rivals Apple and Microsoft over supplying its Blu-ray drives for future generations of the pair's electronics devices.

Microsoft has thus far backed Toshiba’s HD DVD format and offered an HD DVD drive that can be plugged into the Xbox 360, while Apple has remained relatively neutral, patiently waiting for the battle to resolve itself of its own volition.

The Financial Times is now citing Sony Electronics chief executive Stan Glasgow -- the same executive who recently vouched for Sony-branded Apple TV competitor -- as saying talks are underway with Microsoft over adopting Blu-ray in the 360, making it more competitive with the Sony PS3, but at the same time generating incremental revenues for the Japanese electronics maker.

"Mr. Glasgow, speaking at a media dinner, added that discussions were also taking place with Apple, which has not offered Blu-ray drives on any of its computers so far and has focused on digital media via downloads and streaming through devices such as its Apple TV," the financial paper said.

The report adds corroboration to an AppleInsider report from last Friday, which noted that Apple and Sony were in discussions over slot-loading Blu-ray drives for a future generation of Apple's MacBook Pro notebook series.

People claiming to be familiar with the matter had said that Sony is prepared to deliver Blu-ray Combo Drives capable of reading and writing CD media, but not writing Blu-ray DVD media. Apple, however, is said to have only expressed interest in a SuperDrive variant that could also write Blu-ray discs.

Should Apple reach an agreement to offer the Sony drives as part of its Mac platform this year, it's likely to do so only as a build-to-order option. As noted by the Times, most models currently fetch around $399.

Glasgow, however, noted that prices should fall to $299 by this holiday shopping season and to about $200 next year.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[ Digg this story ]

[teckstud]

Everybody on here who's been stating that Apple laptops and computers would not have nor need Blu- ray drives can now begin to eat crow- in huge portions.

[zanshin]

Originally Posted by teckstud

Everybody on here who's been stating that Apple laptops and computers would not have nor need Blu- ray drives can now begin to eat crow- in huge portions.

Just because "Sony is now said to be entertaining talks with rivals Apple..." doesn't mean they're close to being available, let alone necessary. There are lots of things I could get on a Mac laptop or desktop I don't need, now or ever. Like a modem. Or a game. Or a SCSI card.

Hopefully, if BR drives become available, they will be as additional cost options, so I'm not forced into buying something I have no use for. It would be dumb to assume everyone would want to pay the extra cost just because it's new and (potentially) possible.

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

People claiming to be familiar with the matter had said that Sony is prepared to deliver Blu-ray Combo Drives capable of reading and writing CD media, but not writing Blu-ray DVD media. Apple, however, is said to have only expressed interest in a SuperDrive variant that could also write Blu-ray discs.

In other words…
Sony wants to deliver Blue-ray Combo Drives that

• Reads and writes to CD's
• Reads and writes Blue-ray disks

While Apple on the other hand wants a SuperDrive that

• Reads and writes to CDs
• Reads and writes to DVDs
• Reads and writes to Blu-ray disks

Caw…Caw

[Slewis]

Null.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by Slewis

How about a BTO to remove the Optical Drive in favor of a second HDD (or an SSD) in the Macbook Pro?

Sebastian

After the next MBP revision (about 4 years) I'd like to see the exclusion of an internal optical drive.

[backtomac]

Originally Posted by Slewis

How about a BTO to remove the Optical Drive in favor of a second HDD (or an SSD) in the Macbook Pro?

Sebastian

That's a good idea.

I don't use my optical drive often and when I do its when I'm at home. I'd rather have a second battery.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by teckstud

Everybody on here who's been stating that Apple laptops and computers would not have nor need Blu- ray drives can now begin to eat crow- in huge portions.

• We still don't have them in the Mac Pro, where they can fit.
• They still won't be able to play HDCP Blu-ray movies until Montevina/case revison.
• We have yet see slot loading or slim design Blu-ray/DVD/CD drive that will fit in the MBP.

[Achiever]

Not to nitpick the article, but since when was Apple a "rival" on Blu-Ray? My recollection was they quietly supported it and simply didn't implement it into their computer systems. Hardly sounds like a rivalry to me.

[Chris_CA]

Sony is now said to be entertaining talks with rivals Apple and Microsoft

Kinda curious how Apple is a "rival" with blue ray?
MS backed HD DVD but Apple was neutral.

[cgarlock]

knowing apple though the BTO option will be like a 900 upgrade, for instance the Mac book air 64 GB solid state is 999 upgrade option, which is the same price as (2) 32gb ipod touches, (500 each) So hopefully there'll be some more 3rd party products available as a more reasonable rate

[Wiggin]

Originally Posted by teckstud

Everybody on here who's been stating that Apple laptops and computers would not have nor need Blu- ray drives can now begin to eat crow- in huge portions.

The comments we made were in response to people complaining that the latest revisions didn't have blu-ray, or that it was doubtful that they'd be included in the next revision this summer, either (and I don't count a $300-500 BTO option as "included").

"In talks" is a long way from "in production". Personally, I hope the "talks" include AppleTV, where a blu-ray drive would be far, far more useful to the average person. And the small loss of download rental fees would be more than offset in the higher hardware sales (both in price and volume).

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by Abster2core

In other words…
Sony wants to deliver Blue-ray Combo Drives that

• Reads and writes to CD's
• Reads and writes to Blue-ray disks

While Apple on the other hand wants a SuperDrive that

• Reads and writes to CDs
• Reads and writes to DVDs
• Reads and writes to Blu-ray disks

Caw…Caw

As far as I know, the only drive that fits the bill is the MCE Blu-ray Disc for the Mac Pro which sells for $699. http://www.mcetech.com/blu-ray/

The portable counterpart is $749. http://store.mcetech.com/Merchant2/m...roduct_Count=1

In either case, that is a lot to crow about.

[Foo2]

I'd take a faster Internet connection over BR. BR killed HD-DVD. Now let the Internet kill BR.

[malax]

Originally Posted by cgarlock

knowing apple though the BTO option will be like a 900 upgrade, for instance the Mac book air 64 GB solid state is 999 upgrade option, which is the same price as (2) 32gb ipod touches, (500 each) So hopefully there'll be some more 3rd party products available as a more reasonable rate

Give me a break. 64 gig SSDs are state of the art and are very expensive everywhere. The $1000 add-on for the Air wasn't unreasonable--it's just what they cost today. I got a 4 gig USB drive for $20, that doesn't mean I could get a 40 gig SSD for $200 or a 4 terabyte drive for $20,000.

[OriginalMacRat]

Originally Posted by Abster2core

As far as I know, the only drive that fits the bill is the MCE Blu-ray Disc for the Mac Pro which sells for $699. http://www.mcetech.com/blu-ray/

The portable counterpart is $749. http://store.mcetech.com/Merchant2/m...roduct_Count=1

In either case, that is a lot to crow about.

Don't forget the cost of the media.

Most people won't need Blu-ray on a Mac for a few more years.

Only now is dual layer media getting affordable.

[lkrupp]

Originally Posted by teckstud

Everybody on here who's been stating that Apple laptops and computers would not have nor need Blu- ray drives can now begin to eat crow- in huge portions.

Any Blu-ray drives had better damn well be optional. Why should all of us pay for something only a few dinosaurs will want. Even at 50GB or whatever the drive will be pretty useless as backup medium for today's systems. For god's sake people are buying Terabyte drives these days for backup and media storage. And watching a Blu-ray movie on a computer monitor...pppfffttt! A dedicated player, like a dedicated game console, will have more features and do a better job than a drive installed in a computer. Blu-ray drives on today's machines is a stupid idea and only adds unnecessary cost.

[Bageljoey]

Originally Posted by teckstud

Everybody on here who's been stating that Apple laptops and computers would not have nor need Blu- ray drives can now begin to eat crow- in huge portions.

Well, that is oversimplifying things just a bit!

I got involved in the BluRay thing when posters were commenting like: if Apple doesn't have it on the next MBP revision I am not buying.

I never said that it should not happen or that it would not happen. But I think it will be a niche BTO that remains expensive and uncommon for several cycles of laptops.

It could be argued that in a few years it will be a standard laptop item. Maybe so.
It could also be argued that in a few years it will remain a niche item while on demand and downloaded content becomes the consumer standard. I don't really know.

Either way, I don't see any immediate vindication for the BluRay now folks...

[Booga]

Originally Posted by Foo2

I'd take a faster Internet connection over BR. BR killed HD-DVD. Now let the Internet kill BR.

Indeed. I downloaded the 2.1GB iPhone SDK in under 20 minutes this morning on my 20/5 FiOS. At that rate it should be able to give me live streams of iTunes-quality "HD" movies and offline downloads of Blu-Ray quality HD movies.

Of course, since I got a PS3 last year for Christmas, I'd probably still prefer to go buy the actual media, but still, it's nice to have options.

[Elijah M]

An Apple TV with a re-writable CD/DVD/BluRay drive would seem like a natural companion to a MacBook Air. That hypothetical combination, in fact, makes me interested in two products that I otherwise would not even consider buying.

[minderbinder]

Originally Posted by teckstud

Everybody on here who's been stating that Apple laptops and computers would not have nor need Blu- ray drives can now begin to eat crow- in huge portions.

Did anyone say that macs would NEVER have a bluray drive?

Most of the comments I saw said that it would happen eventually, but not until the many issues were resolved. These are things like the format war, DRM issues requiring special video card features, size, cost, features, etc. And at least some of those seem to still be genuine issues.

I don't think there's any question we'll see it eventually see it, and eventually see it in everything. At first it absolutely should be an option and not something included in certain models (raising the price). Personally, it doesn't really interest me, and I probably won't get it until it's the same price as current DVD drives.

[quinney]

Originally Posted by Chris_CA

Kinda curious how Apple is a "rival" with blue ray?
MS backed HD DVD but Apple was neutral.

I think they meant Apple and Microsoft are rivals of each other in general.

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by OriginalMacRat

Don't forget the cost of the media.

Most people won't need Blu-ray on a Mac for a few more years.

Only now is dual layer media getting affordable.

Right. And right now the cost of a 25gb disk is about $20. You can buy a terabyte Time Capsule for significantly less per gb. Of course you have to foresake Blu-ray moviesl, but the selection is pretty low anyway.

[echosonic]

Originally Posted by Chris_CA

Kinda curious how Apple is a "rival" with blue ray?
MS backed HD DVD but Apple was neutral.

Cuz that's how it is with the Japs, baby. You're either with them, or you're against them. BONSAI!

[Bageljoey]

Originally Posted by quinney

I think they meant Apple and Microsoft are rivals of each other in general.

Yeah. Thats how I read it too...

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by Elijah M

An Apple TV with a re-writable CD/DVD/BluRay drive would seem like a natural companion to a MacBook Air. That hypothetical combination, in fact, makes me interested in two products that I otherwise would not even consider buying.

No doubt a lot of people would also be interested. But not for the same reason considering that the combination would be about 4 times the price of Apple TV now.

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by echosonic

Cuz that's how it is with the Japs, baby. You're either with them, or you're against them. BONSAI!

I would suggest that you edit the racist term or you may be banned.

It looks like two guys were done in yesterday. Post like yours fits the bill for such action.

[hmurchison]

Yawn

Blu-ray = slow offline storage tech.

There are other ways (cheaper) to access HD content on computers.
Offline storage sucks.

Do I want to see Macs with Blu-ray? Yes but it certainly isn't something of paramount importance and rankly a $300 drive will likely go over like a lead balloon.

How many HD rental could I purchase with 300 bucks...a LOT.

Get'em down to $150 and we got a hot seller.

[wordwise]

Originally Posted by Chris_CA

Kinda curious how Apple is a "rival" with blue ray?
MS backed HD DVD but Apple was neutral.

Actually, Apple is a member of the Blu Ray consortium:
http://www.blu-ray.com/info/

They're listed as manufacturers who got together to develop the technology...

[digitalclips]

Originally Posted by Foo2

I'd take a faster Internet connection over BR. BR killed HD-DVD. Now let the Internet kill BR.

You are probably correct and Steve has already said the same thing in effect. I am sure there will be a demand for BTO's but nothing like there would have been a year or so back before all the delays due to the format wars.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by cgarlock

knowing apple though the BTO option will be like a 900 upgrade, for instance the Mac book air 64 GB solid state is 999 upgrade option, which is the same price as (2) 32gb ipod touches, (500 each) So hopefully there'll be some more 3rd party products available as a more reasonable rate

But that's ignoring the question of how fast the chips are. The SSD probably uses faster flash chips than the iTouch does. Not all flash chips are created the same, some are fast, some are slow. The slower ones are cheaper than the faster ones.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by Abster2core

Right. And right now the cost of a 25gb disk is about $20. You can buy a terabyte Time Capsule for significantly less per gb. Of course you have to foresake Blu-ray moviesl, but the selection is pretty low anyway.

The same goes for iTunes & AppleTV movies too, but in both cases, that should change soon enough.

[teckstud]

You all still don't get that a blu-ray drive added to the line is inevitable regardless of all your whinings. These drives should make DVD drives obsolete just as CD drives were before them. Blu-ray drives are now over priced yes by Sony but this will change just as the iPhone was originally overpriced. Sony, Dell, and Panosonic Pcs already have Blu-Ray drives- Apple is simply behind the 8 ball on this feature and should be including it already.
A blu-ray drive is essential for iMovieHD and larger file saving. A disc is much more dependable than a Time capsule. Once you loose that Timecapsule or any other hard drive baby you're basically f*@&'d!

[Slewis]

Null.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by teckstud

You all still don't get that a blu-ray drive added to the line is inevitable regardless of all your whinings. These drives should make DVD drives obsolete just as CD drives were before them. Blu-ray drives are now over priced yes by Sony but this will change just as the iPhone was originally overpriced. Sony, Dell, and Panosonic Pcs already have Blu-Ray drives- Apple is simply behind the 8 ball on this feature and should be including it already.

They offer some drives, but I think the problem is getting a 9mm thick slot-loading Blu-Ray drive.

A blu-ray drive is essential for iMovieHD and larger file saving. A disc is much more dependable than a Time capsule. Once you loose that Timecapsule or any other hard drive baby you're basically f*@&'d!

Removeable optical discs do seem to be a better archival system in many ways, but not so good if you need to access it many times. There are benefits both ways.

[Gatesbasher]

Anybody who would be satisfied with a heavily compressed 720p movie when they can get the same thing in full size 1080p form that they can keep forever would pay money for music compressed to 128kbps...oh, yeah, right. They do! P. T. Barnum was right.

Honestly, I listen to Jobs, and read some of these posts, and I just don't know where they get the idea that most people live in the same kind of high-tech dream world they seem to. Downloading a full HD movie on cable internet would take about 10 hours. What kind of connection do they have, and what percentage of people do they think have the same download speed? I know, only a few dinosaurs like me who can remember the kind of fidelity that was entry-level on $100 receivers 30 years ago can "tell the difference" between this 128kbps noise and even the sadly limited CD format. Now we'll be told that "nobody can tell the difference" between Blu-Ray quality 1080p and less-than-cable-quality 720p. "Don't sit too close, and ignore the pixellation and glitches; remember, nobody can tell the difference!" Well, pretty soon, the fossils like me who can will be dead, so have fun!

[caliminius]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

How many HD rental could I purchase with 300 bucks...a LOT.

Get'em down to $150 and we got a hot seller.

Of course, you'd still need a playback device. Even with the $229 AppleTV, you're down to just $71 worth of HD rentals, at most 17 rentals if you only watch older movies at $3.99. I still prefer to own my movies, and that's not even an option with HD downloads right now; I don't relish having to do pay-per-view for everything I want to watch.

And the biggest flaw I see is that just like the now-finished Blu-Ray - HD DVD war, there are too many what are essentially formats for downloads. Until I can fire up a device and pop between the iTunes Store, Xbox Live Marketplace, Unbox, Vudu, and whatever other video download service crops up in the future, I'm not interested. I'm not interested in being forced to buy both my hardware and media from the same source. I want competition that will spur competitive pricing, not lock me into paying a certain price or never get the media I want. With physical media, I can bargain hunt on dozens of web retailers, numerous brick and mortar retailers, or try to find it used on an auction site or other locations.

[Megawatt]

This is in response to those who say Blu-Ray is unnecessary. Consumers might not require this feature, but it should definitely be an option for professional video users. I'm in the industry, and 90% of the content we create for our clients is HD video (720p and 1080i currently). Corporate clients already have HD monitors in their boardrooms, and when they're spending thousands of dollars ($30k - $250k) to produce a video, they want the high resolution that Blu-Ray offers to present on their HDTVs as soon as it becomes available. It will be on the Mac Pro towers obviously, but there is a need to have it on the MBP as well, because many freelance video editors use the MBP as their primary workstation. For film work, editors will output their dailies to Blu-Ray for the director to watch at home on their HDTVs.

[ouragan]

People claiming to be familiar with the matter had said that Sony is prepared to deliver Blu-ray Combo Drives capable of reading and writing CD media, but not writing Blu-ray DVD media. Apple, however, is said to have only expressed interest in a SuperDrive variant that could also write Blu-ray discs.

Should Apple reach an agreement to offer the Sony drives as part of its Mac platform this year, it's likely to do so only as a build-to-order option. As noted by the Times, most models currently fetch around $399.

Glasgow, however, noted that prices should fall to $299 by this holiday shopping season and to about $200 next year.

Hopefully, Sony and Apple will not kill Blu-Ray or slow down its adoption with unduly high prices.

And it's great to see that Apple selected a full featured Blu-Ray drive, able to save large file libraries, not just a Blu-Ray film decoder. To the average computer user, Blu-Ray is a great storage format, not a film format.

There is a desktop iMac with a Blu-Ray drive waiting for me when the price is right.

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by Megawatt

This is in response to those who say Blu-Ray is unnecessary. Consumers might not require this feature, but it should definitely be an option for professional video users. I'm in the industry, and 90% of the content we create for our clients is HD video (720p and 1080i currently). Corporate clients already have HD monitors in their boardrooms, and when they're spending thousands of dollars ($30k - $250k) to produce a video, they want the high resolution that Blu-Ray offers to present on their HDTVs as soon as it becomes available. It will be on the Mac Pro towers obviously, but there is a need to have it on the MBP as well, because many freelance video editors use the MBP as their primary workstation. For film work, editors will output their dailies to Blu-Ray for the director to watch at home on their HDTVs.

Right now there isn't a Blu-ray writer that fits the MBP. But you can get an external one. Price, a low $750.

So what is your problem? Certainly if Apple could buy enough in quantity to drop their costs, it would be an option. Unfortunately, the pundits and the current users aren't convinced. Imagine, at the current price of an internal Blu-ray drive just how many would be willing to cough up another $650 for a Mac Pro. Cripes, it is back to the yesteryears when the first CD writers came out, we bought one and shared it with the whole graphic's/multimedia department.

For most of the market, the continued need for a CD/DVD reader/writer is paramount. It would be suicide for Apple to buck the trend at this point and succumb to Sony's proposition as previously outlined. Or if Sony did come through, consider the screaming that would entail to see the starting point on the MBP page at $2500.

Am I mistaken, but my understanding is that there are less than 600 Blu-ray movies currently available?

As an added note, I just called a few contacts of mine at Best Buy, Tiger Direct and Staples to ask them the status of their blank CD and DVD sales. In every case, it has dropped significantly. As one put it, disks sales are inversely proportional to the sale of iPods. Not that one is being replaced by another, but the medium is simply changing.

I personally have cut over 2,000 backup CD's since 2002. Two so far this year. Time Machine, a LaCie T drive and .Mac account has replaced my MATSHITADVD-R superdrive which only gets used now for retrieving older files. Thank heavens for CDFinder.