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#1 |
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Kasper's Automated Slave
Join Date: Nov 1997
Posts: 6,151
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RBC on shortage; Apple vs. Big Apple; T-Mobile's 99 Euro iPhones
An RBC analyst says that demand, not future models, are dictating the sudden iPhone shortage. Meanwhile, Apple assures buyers that more are on the way, the company is fighting New York City over an apple logo, and T-Mobile Germany is the first to subsidize the iPhone's price with different plans.
RBC: iPhone shortfall result of huge demand Claims that Apple's sudden lack of iPhones is sign of an imminent upgrade to 3G are unrealistic, Royal Bank analyst Mike Abramsky said on Thursday in a note to investors. Instead, Apple is more likely to have simply underestimated demand. Investigations suggest that the iPhone maker dropped its build rate by as much as 50 percent in the first quarter of 2008, assuming that demand would drop sharply after the holiday; that sales rate remained steady, Abramsky says. He also notes that Apple has had a recurring difficulty in estimating iPhone demand, including sales of unlocked devices. An early 3G iPhone launch ignores a number of factors, the RBC researcher notes, including the need to receive government approval and the timing of the version 2.0 firmware update in June, which presents a more likely opportunity. Still, Abramsky adds, the problem is one Apple is glad to have. The company "probably feels like the dog that caught the car," he says. Apple responds to iPhone shortage concerns Until now the only party remaining silent on the subject of its iPhone shortage, Apple on Thursday chimed in on the subject in response to a New York Times inquiry. Spokesman Steve Dowling responded briefly by noting that a steady supply of shipments is still enroute. "We are working to replenish iPhone supplies as quickly as we can," he says in a prepared statement. Dowling declined to provide an explanation for the shortage. Apple disputes New York City campaign logo Although it runs three flagship retail stores in New York City, Apple is taking the local government to task for attempting to trademark a logo resembling its namesake fruit. While the city's emblem -- meant for the GreeNYC environmental campaign -- bears little direct similarity to Apple's partly-eaten version, the appearance is close enough that Apple has filed its formal opposition to the registration of the trademark. The use of the logo by New York would "seriously injure" Apple's reputation by causing confusion and diluting the brand, Apple claims. The protest will require that an independent survey take place to determine whether claims of confusion are well-founded. T-Mobile Germany to subsidize iPhone price during promo Apple has historically resisted subsidizing the iPhone's price with subscriptions since its debut, but that should change as of next week, according to reports. Starting April 7th, T-Mobile Germany is expected to run a promotional campaign that will discount the price of an 8GB iPhone by increasing amounts depending on the customer's subscription plan. A customer of the 89-Euro Complete XL plan, which offers 1,000 minutes per month, will pay just 99 Euros for the phone itself. Having obtained a full chart for the campaign, German site iFun has also learned that less costly Complete L and M lans will offer the phone for 149 and 199 Euros. A fourth plan, the Complete S plan, will offer just 50 minutes of calling and caps data to 500MB but will still offer the phone for 249 Euros, or 150 Euros less than its normal asking price. Notably, the sale is due to end on June 30th, shortly after Apple expects to ship its version 2.0 firmware upgrade. |
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#2 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: South West Florida
Posts: 1,584
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Apple are taking legal action against someone else? Wow, this is a change lol
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#3 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 585
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This is testament to how badly (in a relative sense) sales are going in Europe. I can definitely see 3G being shipped in June/July. I wonder if Apple is looking at all this demand around the world and thinking about abandoning exclusive arrangements going forward. They must surely stand to make much more money if they sell the phone for $250 more without a contract and sell to all sorts of retailers, much like they do with their iPods. I think they probably underestimated the level of demand worldwide and how much people resent having to go with one carrier. The problems with this idea is that visual voicemail is not going to work in all cases and the bundled and unlimited data will not be consistent, an important part of the user experience. I think longer term though the financial pressure will be too much. As they start out and have difficulty with supply its not a big deal not being able to satisfy worldwide demand, but as they ramp up, they would be stupid not to sell the phone where they could. They're poised to capture a large portion of the high-end phone market, just as their iPod business reaches saturation point.
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#4 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bushie'sland
Posts: 302
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It's been "the Big Apple" for a long time. Next they could file against Apple One Employment Agency or anybody that sells apples or apple pie
Cubist
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#5 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: The Ansible
Posts: 11,779
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#6 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 557
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if like me you have never heard of the phrase "The Dog that Caught the Car"
it means... "Usually if you hear the phrase "the dog that caught the car", it's about someone who worked really hard for something and then didn't know what to do with it" |
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#7 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 834
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#8 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 733
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#9 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: united mexican states
Posts: 1,326
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Quote:
but a part of his comment is in regard to the other mini story, about the way the iphone is being sold in europe. there's the idea that apple would just be better off selling the device unlocked, with no carrier discounts, for whatever price they suggest, so they sell as many as they can (the same way they do with ipods... because after all, the iphone is also an ipod --and more) and then people would choose the carrier of their choice. there would be no support for visual voicemail, but that may be offset by not having to unlock/jailbreak the device and having a steady stream of official sw updates from apple. |
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#10 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 28
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"Apple has historically resisted subsidizing the iPhone's price with subscriptions since its debut, but that should change as of next week, according to reports."
Correct me if I'm wrong but Apple gets money from the retail sale AND the service plan, so that IS subsidizing the price of the phone. |
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#11 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: The Ansible
Posts: 11,779
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.....
Last edited by solipsism; 04-03-2008 at 08:58 PM.. |
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#12 | ||
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,016
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It's just a legal technicality
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If you don't defend your trademark, others can claim legal precedence later on. It doesn't matter if you won or lost...
Ain't it funny how countries we "liberate" promptly descend into crime and civil war-Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. ?
Countries the "violent Islamists" subjugate end up peaceful, crime-free, and self-sustaining-Somalia,Afghanistan pre-U.S. ? |
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#13 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: The Ansible
Posts: 11,779
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Quote:
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#14 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 66
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A 50min a month plan? That should be free, it's just a freaking joke!
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#15 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5
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the 2 apples look different, whts the big deal about it?
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#16 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: South West Florida
Posts: 1,584
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#17 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 90
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Quote:
In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
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#18 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 5,249
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Quote:
Of course Apple will not forever lock the iPhone to one carrier that would be foolish. But in these early stages of development, the situation gives Apple the leverage to build the platform the way it wants to. |
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#19 | |
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Global Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,612
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#20 | |
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Global Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,612
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Quote:
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#21 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 47
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Blind spot
Apple seems to be unaware of their potential for sales outside the USA. There is a huge potential market that they somehow treat as second class. They overcharge their customers, are very slow in establishing Apple stores except perhaps in anglophone countries and have none of the hype you see in the US. I have yet to see an Apple ad on TV for instance.
They should wake-up to the potential. Disappointing iPhone sales in Europe are not the only signal. |
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#22 | |
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Global Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,612
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Quote:
First, it took what seemed forever to get the store to most countries, then after going through all of the agreements, they were accused of illegally charging different prices. The different landscape in other countries makes it very expensive. First, you must hire a local law firm expert in these areas. Then you have to see if you can even do what you want to. Sometimes you can't, and have to literally go back to the drawing board. It can take years. The advertising laws differ, and so ads designed for local mores and laws have to be done. Sometimes, those laws and mores make it impossible to have the kind of ads the company wants. Disney had these problems when working on Euro Disney. It cost them a vast amount to modify their plans for the exhibits to conform to French cultural fears. They were forced to serve wine in places they didn't feel appropriate, etc. It was a mess. Apple is doing things properly. It will just take them longer than you want. |
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#23 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 585
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#24 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 585
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Quote:
American companies treat everyone as second class, this is not new. When half (or more) of the world market is at your doorstep, cheap to access and unified, you're not going to rush out to spend heaps of money to sell to the fragmented, localised market that is the rest of the world. It's simple economics. The iPhone is not expensive. If you consider the top of the like Nokia N95 launched in the US at about $800, the fact that you can get an iPhone for $400 makes it a steal. If you factor in the kickbacks Apple is rumoured to get ($10-20 per month), then the full price is comparable. And the iPhone is a better phone that the N95. |
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#25 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 60
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Quote:
Of course Apple is US-centric, but I don't really see them as somehow neglecting the European market, seeing as 44% of Apple's revenue comes out of Europe. I see the iPhone announcement in Germany as Apple trying to adjust to a market in which it is still the new guy, and adjusting for cultural differences and buying habits. For Germany, the new T-Mobile plans aren't actually that bad; they're actually quite competitive to other providers. It's just too bad that T-Mobile as a company is terrible. I do think they will see a definite increase in business due to this move, although I still think Apple is making a huge mistake by not selling the iPhone at Gravis (largest European Apple reseller) or even at the german Apple online store; If you want a legal iPhone in Germany, you have to go to a T-Mobile shop. ![]() |
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#26 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Boise, ID among others
Posts: 529
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Iphone != subsidized
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I've never understood why Apple wasn't allowing ALL the carriers to do this? Think about it... Apple would keep the current deal with AT&T --- nothing would change there --- BUT they would let AT&T lower the retail price of the iPhone to say $199 or so and AT&T would absorb the costs. They do this so they can get more people to come over to their network. In America, people are usually cheap with cellphones and can get most smartphones for < $250 or so with a 2-year contract. In Europe, where the competition is much higher, They can literally get FREE very high end phones with a 2-year contract, like a Nokia N95 that sells for $750 retail. If a customer wants to purchase a new phone WITHOUT signing a new contract or lengthening a current one, then they pay the normal retail cost without the carrier subsidy which is usually much higher. This is totally standard practice worldwide. also, I don't really understand the argument people make about this that Apple "doesn't want to de-value the iPhone"... I don't think it devalues the product just because people pay less for it when they know they are getting a big discount for signing a long contract. I think everyone expects to receive a deal on ANYTHING when they sign a long-term agreement. Just like cable/satellite TV service or broadband service or web-hosting. If i was a major stock holder, I'd be pissed they were taking this attitude when they get be selling twice as many iPhones while still making the same revenue/phone!!! |
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#27 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 557
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All of my friends had bought an iphone from the US to be used in the UK months before it began selling through the proper channels. |
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#28 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Posts: 54
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Is this RBC analyst the same one who predicted the Canadian launch of the iPhone at the SDK event in March?
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#29 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,066
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Quote:
I don't recall seeing any document that supports the contention that Apple does not allow the carrier to "subsidize" the cost of the iPhone. Really there is no need for Apple to care what price an "AT&T" sells the iPhone for as long as Apple gets their contracted price. Heck, if AT&T gave the iPhone away for nothing, I don’t know of any way that Apple could stop them. However,… What Apple realized right from the beginning that for the iPhone to succeed, it first had to overcome the major issue with most cell phones/services, i.e., they often just didn't work, “dropped calls.” Secondly, for the iPhone’s other unique functions, it wouldn't survive unless the existing carrier data services where improved/changed and most important that the costs of such would only not be passed on to the consumer, but in fact also had to be significantly decreased. Bottom line, nothing is “free.” But we got an unbelievable product with an improved and less expensive service. Check out And it will only get better. What many are missing, is that this strategy of forcing the incumbent to change is not new with Jobs. For those that were around when the Mac was introduced in 1984, many of us recall how Jobs was very demanding that software shouldn’t cost $500 as Microsoft, Lotus, etc., were charging for their word processing and spread sheet applications at the time. Thus MacWrite and MacPaint were price at $129 each, and a year later Microsoft introduced Word and later Multiplan (precursor to Excel) at the same price. P.S. Great article on Europe vs America Mobile Phone. It is not that simple. And there doesn't seem to be a problem re 3G or lack there of: http://mobileopportunity.blogspot.co...phone-use.html |
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#30 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jersey (new)
Posts: 1,001
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Quote:
If I were a major stock holder I would be ecstatic (and quite rich, thank you Apple). I would also be inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt when something doesn't appear to be going perfectly. I'm not saying Apple is perfect and can do no wrong, but to assume they are idiots leaving money on the table is surely being a little simplistic...
Progress is a comfortable disease
--e.e.c. |
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#31 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,218
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Quote:
Now, the business model may be questionable (i.e., Apple would simply have been better off selling it unlocked, with appropriate caveats), but you have to admit it's consistent. |
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#32 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,115
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#33 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 47
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Quote:
Apple could make a point of working with the European Commission and parliament to iron out problems in advance. Europe is a single market and the Eurozone has a single currency to make trading there easier. The potential market rivals that of the US. All I would like to see is for Apple to treat us as valuable customers and not as addendum to be milked by overcharging. Oh, and by the way, I live on the border of Belgium and the Netherlands. |
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#34 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Tobaccoville, North Carolina
Posts: 51
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Suing Over Fruit Shapes???
Good grief. Okay so now we are trademarking fruit as a whole? Apple get ahold of yourself, it looks nothing like your logo. Perhaps Apple should have stuck with the multi-colored rainbow affect on their logo to further distinguish it from impostors?.....mmm....nah, people just need to quit suing each other!!! Crazy loons. I love Apple but I think they get a big head sometimes.
Always remember..wherever you go, there you are.
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#35 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New England
Posts: 480
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Quote:
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#36 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 357
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Quote:
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#37 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 357
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Quote:
With parts coming from a few diffent suppliers, and the assembly facilities recently having moved, couldn't there have just been some sort of production hickup at on of the many factories Apple relies on? An upgrade to one of the facilities might have cost a week's production at some point, and Apple has a history of trying to save money by having little overstock... Another issue might be that due to the less than anticipated sales of the phone in European markets, Apple cut production globally and had to wait for some the phones that were sitting unsold in the UK, France, Germany, etc. to be shipped to and repackaged for sale in the US. If they plan a refresh to the line in the fall, it doesn't make sense to have a few million unsold units sitting around in Europe, and it would definitely make sense to try and sell the phones they haven't sold in the EU back in the USA... Of course, a third option might be that Apple has discovered a quality control/longevity/hardware fault in the product and they've had to cut production while they made a silent correction to the line. We all remember the bad PR that happened after the release of the Macbook and it's quality issues (discolouring plastic, battery problems, pixel fails), which might be damaging to Apple's fledgling phone division. Apple also has a history of covering up it's problems as quietly as it can... |
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#38 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,066
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It is the law…
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If a trademark owner fails to police his or her mark, the owner may be deemed to have abandoned the mark or acquiesced in its misuse. A trademark is only protected while it serves to identify the source of goods or services. The determination of infringement is actually one that will be made by the court, so a trademark owner is simply using a best guess about whether or not infringement actually has occurred. That best guess may be a good one, based on experience and expertise, or it may be a bad one that doesn't reflect any of the legitimate defenses that might exist. The law doesn't require the mark owner to sue everyone; it just requires the owner to keep his mark distinctive. It is better to be safe than sorry. Although Apple may not win this case, acting as they have may encourage others to think about whether or not they are assimilating an established trademark or brand as Apple has. Not taking any action at all may be construed by the courts as an abandonment of the trademark and then it is too late to ever get it back. As the originators of Kleenix or Escalator unfortunately did. P.S. It is unfortunate that Apple has to take what some would consider 'frivolous' steps. However, just look at all the equally perceived ridiculous actions Apple is currently fighting. As a side note: More unfortunately is the number of lawyers, now over a million…about as twice as the number of doctors practicing law in the US. As we know, lawyers are only above politicians and media people when it comes to who do we trust least. Worse yet, judges were previously lawyers, although you don't have to be an attorney to be appointed to to the federal branch. President Truman didn't take a law course until after he became a judge and then there was Abe Lincoln who was probably our most famous example of lawyer-turned politician who never went to school at all. Tells us something. Doesn't it. |
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#39 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,066
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Quote:
These agencies dictate where, when or why their public airways have be used and with what or how it can done. In some case they even control costs. In this regard, Apple or any other company or organization could not unilaterally circumvent the respective laws of each of the lands via a single internationally structured agency. Talk about the ability to disrupt national security. Last edited by Abster2core; 04-04-2008 at 02:07 PM.. |
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#40 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,105
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