Apple hires HP's top corporate attorney

[AppleInsider]

Apple this week filled a years-long void in legal department, luring Hewlett-Packard's top corporate lawyer to head up its own corporate affairs department, Law.com is reporting.

Charles Charnas, deputy general counsel at HP, is said to be the first major acquisition of Apple's new general counsel Daniel Cooperman, filling a seat at the Cupertino-based electronics maker that has been vacant since Michael Wyatt departed in 2000.

Charnas will report to Cooperman and oversee the company's intellectual property and play a primary role in strategic acquisitions, among other things. He was elected Assistant Secretary at HP in 1999 and three years later promoted to Vice President and Deputy General Counsel.

During his 18-year tenure at HP, Charnas managed the $4.5 billion purchase of Mercury Interactive and also presided over the company's 2001 battle to acquire Compaq for $25 billion.

Charnas is also said to be a proud iPhone owner and avid guitar player. He can been seen in the below YouTube video playing a tribute HP's former CFO Bob Wayman at his retirement party.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[CREB]

All you need to do is ask the Mercury personnel how miserable they are in the HP environment to learn that although Charnas might have secured the deal the M&A might not prove to be all that hot. Besides, the persona of Apple is so different from Charnas has to offer. Apple used to be special..now it is becoming like every other large corporation. Sad.

[jpellino]

Did they use headlights and a scatter gun?

Please. They offered the guy a job and he took it.

[SpamSandwich]

That was my comment also. Poaching is very different from hiring. Another misleading "Faux News"-style headline. Can we reign these in a bit?

[Kasper]

Originally Posted by jpellino

Did they use headlights and a scatter gun?

Please. They offered the guy a job and he took it.

Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

That was my comment also. Poaching is very different from hiring. Another misleading "Faux News"-style headline. Can we reign these in a bit?

I disagree with both of you, but changed it nonetheless cause I'm really growing tired of the constant bitching on this forum over nonsense. I hope this satisfies you guys.

Charnas was an 18-year employee of HP who was sought out and lured away with incentives.

In the future, if you have an objection to a headline, a paragraph, a misplaced comma, the number of words we include in a link, etc, please just mail me at kasper (at) appleinsider (dot) com instead tarnishing our discussion threads. OK?

Thank you and enjoy your weekend, guys,

K

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by CREB

All you need to do is ask the Mercury personnel how miserable they are in the HP environment to learn that although Charnas might have secured the deal the M&A might not prove to be all that hot. Besides, the persona of Apple is so different from Charnas has to offer. Apple used to be special..now it is becoming like every other large corporation. Sad.

Man, you must live in a world of disgruntals.

[Silencio]

Lawyers taste better when they're pan-roasted instead of poached.

[SpamSandwich]

Originally Posted by Kasper

I disagree with both of you, but changed it nonetheless cause I'm really growing tired of the constant bitching on this forum over nonsense. I hope this satisfies you guys.

Charnas was an 18-year employee of HP who was sought out and lured away with incentives.

In the future, if you have an objection to a headline, a paragraph, a misplaced comma, the number of words we include in a link, etc, please just mail me at kasper (at) appleinsider (dot) com instead tarnishing our discussion threads. OK?

Thank you and enjoy your weekend, guys,

K

In my opinion, no one is "above the law" on a public forum like this, so it can only improve things when inaccuracies (even perceived inaccuracies) are criticized.

No one is interested in "tarnishing" AppleInsider Kasper. We criticize because we care.

Enjoy your weekend too, Kasper.

[iCarbon]

I know you're all bickering about the title of the article, but really you're all missing what is clearly Apple's secret agenda. Tired of dealing with the music industry colluding to take away their market share, they're building their own record company... they aren't hiring a lawyer; they're hiring a fantastic guitarist!

just wait until you hear his first big single... brought to you exclusively from itunes!

oh, and have a great weekend (I hope this isn't a new trend)

[malax]

Originally Posted by CREB

All you need to do is ask the Mercury personnel how miserable they are in the HP environment to learn that although Charnas might have secured the deal the M&A might not prove to be all that hot. Besides, the persona of Apple is so different from Charnas has to offer. Apple used to be special..now it is becoming like every other large corporation. Sad.

Ok, that makes no sense. Apple is a not tainted because they hired a guy who orchestrated a merger that--like most mergers--led to some discomfort to the staff of the no-longer-independent company? Whatever.

Isn't the much more interesting point that Apple just hired a guy with experience with large scale mergers into a position that was vacant for the better part of a decade. It has to make one at least curious about this as a strategic move. It certainly better positions Apple to use their huge cash stockpile to buy important companies (as opposed to small software development groups). I'm not making a prediction, but Apple better positioned to acquire a company like TiVo then they were before they hired this dude. I doubt that's a coincidence. (On the other hand I won't be surprised if a year from now we learn that he as left Apple because there were no major acquisitions even being considered.)

p.s. have a good weekend

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by jpellino

Did they use headlights and a scatter gun?

Please. They offered the guy a job and he took it.

You mean they didn't boil him in water?

Please. Words have more than one meaning. If you can't adjust to that, maybe you need to learn and use some other language. I'm not sure if such a language exists though.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by CREB

All you need to do is ask the Mercury personnel how miserable they are in the HP environment to learn that although Charnas might have secured the deal the M&A might not prove to be all that hot. Besides, the persona of Apple is so different from Charnas has to offer. Apple used to be special..now it is becoming like every other large corporation. Sad.

I think blaming the lawyer for the merger of corporations is like blaming a divorce lawyer for breaking up a marriage.

[anantksundaram]

Hope he's worth it. But I sure do hope he doesn't talk Apple into some "strategic acquisition": HP-Compaq was an unmitigated disaster. (Btw, if you hear the words "strategic," "acquisition", and "lots of cash" in the same sentence, head for the exits).

Moreover, the lack of ethics and the bungling around the infamous "pretexting" (spying on reporters) incident engineered by these legal marvels (seemingly with the acquiescence of then Chair of the Board, Patricia Dunn) left HP's reputation deeply tarnished.

[CREB]

Bottom line is Apple's compatibility with Charnas' workplace mentality. I cannot blame Charnas for leaving HP as Mark Hurd is running HP into the ground.

As Apple struggles with its growing pains it now assimilates into the what other large corporations have become—including the bad. However, if Apple wants to play in those leagues it will now have to have a realistic succession plan for Jobs' position (should Jobs keel-over tomorrow, I bet Apple's stock would plummet $100 a share). These realities were the same that hit HP when Bill and Dave (although Bill and Dave were not linked to HP like Jobs is in the eyes of the public) did not have a succession plan, and HP now simply rides on the substantial earnings, and the tiring wheels of motion, that Bill and Dave established...little else.

[CREB]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

I think blaming the lawyer for the merger of corporations is like blaming a divorce lawyer for breaking up a marriage.

Excellent lawyers have excellent business savvy (if you have ever worked with high-end lawyers, and not bloody corporate lawyers you would see this aspect).

[Rot'nApple]

Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

In my opinion, no one is "above the law" on a public forum like this, so it can only improve things when inaccuracies (even perceived inaccuracies) are criticized.

No one is interested in "tarnishing" AppleInsider Kasper. We criticize because we care.

Enjoy your weekend too, Kasper.

I just think Kasper is saying "there is a time and place for everything".

"Children should be seen and not heard", "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater", "Silence is golden", "There are times when silence has the loudest voice" and all other folk-lore catchphrases.

Kasper knows you care, he's just asking you where it's appropriate to show that care. Kind of like military portocol of one officer keeping silent even though disagreeing with a higher ranking officer becasue they are in front of enlisted personnel, but rather makes the disagreement known under the proper circumstances... is all "K" is saying I think.

Everybody have a great weekend!

[quinney]

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

Hope he's worth it. But I sure do hope he doesn't talk Apple into some "strategic acquisition": HP-Compaq was an unmitigated disaster. (Btw, if you hear the words "strategic," "acquisition", and "lots of cash" in the same sentence, head for the exits).

Moreover, the lack of ethics and the bungling around the infamous "pretexting" (spying on reporters) incident engineered by these legal marvels (seemingly with the acquiescence of then Chair of the Board, Patricia Dunn) left HP's reputation deeply tarnished.

Is that how it works? Will he be trying to talk Apple into something or will he just be the
person to carry out the desires of the executives and board members above him in the
hierarchy?

HP was around eighteenish in 2002 when it merged with Compaq and it is around 45
now, so I would have to say the disaster has been mitigated somewhat.

Some would argue that AAPL's ethics have been smudged a bit lately, so maybe he
will fit right in or maybe, with his history, he will make a convenient future scapegoat.

[Booga]

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

Hope he's worth it. But I sure do hope he doesn't talk Apple into some "strategic acquisition": HP-Compaq was an unmitigated disaster. (Btw, if you hear the words "strategic," "acquisition", and "lots of cash" in the same sentence, head for the exits).

Moreover, the lack of ethics and the bungling around the infamous "pretexting" (spying on reporters) incident engineered by these legal marvels (seemingly with the acquiescence of then Chair of the Board, Patricia Dunn) left HP's reputation deeply tarnished.

The "unmitigated disaster" thing hasn't been my impression at all. In fact HP has been doing quite well in the market since acquiring Compaq--consistently nipping at Dell's heels and sometimes pulling ahead-- and the Compaq shot in the arm seems to me to be a major reason.

[jpellino]

Originally Posted by Kasper

I disagree with both of you, but changed it nonetheless cause I'm really growing tired of the constant bitching on this forum over nonsense. I hope this satisfies you guys.
Charnas was an 18-year employee of HP who was sought out and lured away with incentives.
In the future, if you have an objection to a headline, a paragraph, a misplaced comma, the number of words we include in a link, etc, please just mail me at kasper (at) appleinsider (dot) com instead tarnishing our discussion threads. OK?
Thank you and enjoy your weekend, guys,
K

Please, don't try and act like a journalist if you can't take reader criticism. Tarnishing? Who used the B word here? Not me, not him. I may have been flip, but I was civil.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by Booga

The "unmitigated disaster" thing hasn't been my impression at all. In fact HP has been doing quite well in the market since acquiring Compaq--consistently nipping at Dell's heels and sometimes pulling ahead-- and the Compaq shot in the arm seems to me to be a major reason.

Doesn't HP have a lower market share now than HP + Compaq did combined before the merger?

[jpellino]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

You mean they didn't boil him in water? Please. Words have more than one meaning. If you can't adjust to that, maybe you need to learn and use some other language. I'm not sure if such a language exists though.

Poaching as regards hunting or business implies something illegal or unethical. There is nothing in the content of Kasper's post (nor in the law.com item - in fact Kasper added the term "lure") that supports anything illegal or unethical on the part of Apple. I was making a play on one of the closer meanings of the word, pointing that out.

Calm down.

[elroth]

I wonder if the more important part of this is that he will "oversee the company's intellectual property" - maybe defending against all those patent cases being filed against Apple? I don't know if that's one of his areas of expertise, but if it is that would be good.

(And I can't wait to see him playing onstage to close out the next Macworld).

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by jpellino

Poaching as regards hunting or business implies something illegal or unethical. There is nothing in the content of Kasper's post (nor in the law.com item - in fact Kasper added the term "lure") that supports anything illegal or unethical on the part of Apple. I was making a play on one of the closer meanings of the word, pointing that out.

Calm down.

I'm not mad at you, I was parodying your post.

In the business context, "poaching" is not illegal or necessarily unethical. All it means is that you hired someone from a competitor. It's not necessarily obscure jargon either, at least in business. I've even found a CNN Money story on the subject.

[SpamSandwich]

Originally Posted by Rot'nApple

Everybody have a great weekend!

Everyone's doin' it!

[David Stevenson]

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

Hope he's worth it. But I sure do hope he doesn't talk Apple into some "strategic acquisition": HP-Compaq was an unmitigated disaster.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "was." I was at the shareholder's meeting held at HP wrt the Compaq merger, and Carley Fiorino talked at great length at the problems that lay ahead (e.g. one was an e-mail culture and the other a phone culture). They knew going in that it would take a few years to combine the cultures, longer than the businesses per se. The irony is that it wasn't until a year or so after CF's departure that HPQ saw the light at the end of the tunnel. My take is that HP got exactly what it wanted (and expected), and is probably pleased (now) with the result (although probably not with the pain). And I doubt that he talked HP into that "strategic acquisition", nor that he goaded CF into micromanaging the resulting merged companies.

[jpellino]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

I'm not mad at you, I was parodying your post.

In the business context, "poaching" is not illegal or necessarily unethical. All it means is that you hired someone from a competitor. It's not necessarily obscure jargon either, at least in business. I've even found a CNN Money story on the subject.

Was "If you can't adjust to that, maybe you need to learn and use some other language. I'm not sure if such a language exists though." part of the parody or just an attack?

[Booga]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

Doesn't HP have a lower market share now than HP + Compaq did combined before the merger?

I don't know, but it's not really relevant. The question is whether buying Compaq was worth it for HP, and the answer, to me, seems to be yes.

[digitalclips]

Makes me wonder if Apple are considering an acquisition of some significant size ...

... Sony, Adobe, IBM ... or maybe Dell so they can give the shares back? ... just kidding but fun speculating

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by jpellino

Please. They offered the guy a job and he took it.

Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

Poaching is very different from hiring. Another misleading "Faux News"-style headline. Can we reign these in a bit?

Originally Posted by jpellino

Poaching as regards hunting or business implies something illegal or unethical.

This is an oft used, coluorful term to describe this exact event. It's ironic that Dictionay.app uses an example sentence about companies poaching from other companies.

poach |poʊtʃ| |pəʊtʃ|
verb [ trans. ]
• take or acquire in an unfair or clandestine way : employers risk having their newly trained workers poached by other companies.

Speaking of poaching, I think someone has egg on their face.

[SpamSandwich]

Originally Posted by solipsism

This is an oft used, coluorful term to describe this exact event. It's ironic that Dictionay.app uses an example sentence about companies poaching from other companies.

poach |poʊtʃ| |pəʊtʃ|
verb [ trans. ]
• take or acquire in an unfair or clandestine way : employers risk having their newly trained workers poached by other companies.

Speaking of poaching, I think someone has egg on their face.

If poaching was indeed involved, I wouldn't mind being directed to some indisputable evidence. Otherwise, it's just, like... your opinion, man.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by digitalclips

Makes me wonder if Apple are considering an acquisition of some significant size ...

... Sony, Adobe, IBM ... or maybe Dell so they can give the shares back? ... just kidding but fun speculating

That is what I was thinking, too. Could Apple have been saving their reserves to make a massive acquisition? What would be their primary target, the Enterprise? If they were going to make a major movie for the Enterprise what major player would they want?

Sony is out of the question, I think Adobe isn't going to happen, and Dell would be possible, but I see simple solution for using them to push Apple up.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

If poaching was indeed involved, I wouldn't mind being directed to some indisputable evidence. Otherwise, it's just, like... your opinion, man.

The article implies that Apple sought out Charnas, not the other way around. You'll find that this isn't just acceptable, but one of most common terms for describing this occurrence.

In my younger days I was a network admin for a "big wig" headhunter* corp. The whole business was monitoring corporate officers around the world. There were "super secret" meetings and hefty bonuses involved when luring them away from other companies. Sometimes because they wanted that individual, sometimes because they simply didn't want their competitor to have them. There was a lot of skullduggery all around.


* Before I get attacked for using 'headhunter' note that it doesn't literally mean to collect heads in this sense. Like 'poach' it is a colloquial term. Both senses of 'headhunter' will be found in any reputable dictionary.

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by quinney

Is that how it works? Will he be trying to talk Apple into something or will he just be the
person to carry out the desires of the executives and board members above him in the
hierarchy?

Lawyers have a rather important say in the affairs of corporate America -- more than one knows, or would like. I honestly do not think it is much of an issue when SJ is around, but after that who knows.....

Originally Posted by quinney

HP was around eighteenish in 2002 when it merged with Compaq and it is around 45
now, so I would have to say the disaster has been mitigated somewhat.

I am afraid that is a somewhat spurious argument. For all we know, without Compaq, it could have been selling at $90 now. We do know that, when tech was back on track after the downturn of 2001-02, HP was seriously lagging its peers. It was not until Mark Hurd arrived a couple of years ago (and brought HP back to its basics, i.e., its printer business) that the stock started to trend up significantly again.

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by Booga

I don't know, but it's not really relevant. The question is whether buying Compaq was worth it for HP, and the answer, to me, seems to be yes.

"Worth it" using what metric?

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by Booga

The "unmitigated disaster" thing hasn't been my impression at all. In fact HP has been doing quite well in the market since acquiring Compaq--consistently nipping at Dell's heels and sometimes pulling ahead-- and the Compaq shot in the arm seems to me to be a major reason.

There's no way to know that they couldn't be even better. Don't forget that they had a pretty darn good PC business prior to Compaq.

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by jpellino

Please, don't try and act like a journalist if you can't take reader criticism.

I do have to broadly agree with that sentiment: journalism is a tough business these days, and you have to be able to take it on the chin. No one, not even the traditionally great media brand names (or bylines) is immune. That's the nature of the beast. It just seems to come with the territory, AI!

But look at the bright side: It means that you have arrived!

Now, just keep up the great work.

[vinea]

Originally Posted by solipsism

The article implies that Apple sought out Charnas, not the other way around. You'll find that this isn't just acceptable, but one of most common terms for describing this occurrence.

The article does not imply that. It states only that:

"The top corporate lawyer at Hewlett-Packard has joined Apple."

This is very neutral in comparison to the Cooperman article that said that Jobs personally wooed Cooperman. And note that Apple did not poach Cooperman either. Jobs cleared it with Ellison first.

There is also nothing in the article that suggests that Apple "sought out and lured away with incentives" Charnas as Kasper states.

Charnas was passed over for GC when HP hired Holston. After 18 years, 6 years as deputy GC and being the acting GC, Charnas was not likely to ever make GC even if Holston left. Perhaps he was dissapointed. Perhaps he doesn't get along with Holston. Perhaps Holston wants his own guy/gal as deputy GC. Perhaps Holston and Hurd simply marginalized Charnas. Perhaps Cooperman really did seek out Charnas with incentives.

There's no indication for any of these scenarios. Hence:

"The top corporate lawyer at Hewlett-Packard has joined Apple."

Given Jobs behavior with Cooperman, poaching is unlikely even if he isn't buddy buddy with Hurd like he is with Ellison. As stated above, there are many potential reasons that Charnas may have been looking.

Kasper needs to get a thicker skin because his byline was sensationalist and irresponsible and it has been picked up by other sites that did not later correct the title.

And I would think that The Recorder is more likely to have the juicy gossip from the HP and Apple legal departments than AI. Given they were playing this one pretty neutral that's a good indicator that only the principals know the details right now.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by vinea

The article does not imply that.

I beg to differ.

[...] luring Hewlett-Packard's top corporate lawyer [...]

I am referring to this article. If a poster wishes to use a difference source for comparison then they need to specify that and post the source link.

[vinea]

Originally Posted by solipsism

I beg to differ.

I am referring to this article. If a poster wishes to use a difference source for comparison then they need to specify that and post the source link.

How about the one that AppleInsider references as their source?

You know that reference in the first sentence and the link in the second sentence?

That Kasper choose to sensationalize it doesn't make it any more true than...the mini being cancelled.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by vinea

How about the one that AppleInsider references as their source?

You know that reference in the first sentence and the link in the second sentence?

Gotcha. That is in the main page. I tend to stay in the forum. Why the hyper link doesn't carry over is beyond me.