Briefly: Spain, Poland iPhone talk; iPhone SDK beta 5; AT&T memo

[AppleInsider]

Talks are ongoing to bring the next-generation of Apple's iPhone to Spain and Poland. Meanwhile, a new version of the iPhone SDK has been released with minor tweaks; AppleInsider can confirm an AT&T memo issued Tuesday; and eBay has yanked an auction for an unofficial Mac clone system.

Orange may distribute iPhone outside France

France Telecom's Orange, Apple's exclusive iPhone provider and distributor in France, is "in discussions" with the handset maker to sell the next-generation iPhone in other European countries.

The carrier's chief financial officer Gervais Pellissier said the company is in talks with Apple on the subject, in particular with regard to Spain and Poland "among others".

In the past two weeks, carriers worldwide have announced deals (1, 2, 3) that will see the iPhone arrive later this year in Canada, Australia, the Czech Republic, Egypt, Greece, Italy, India, Portugal, New Zealand, South Africa and Turkey.

iPhone SDK (build 9M2173a, beta 5)

Apple early Wednesday sent an email to iPhone developers informing them that the fifth beta version of the iPhone SDK is now available for download. The release "fixes bugs and adds support for the latest iPhone OS," according to a brief set of release notes.



In forthcoming releases of the developers kit, Apple promises to support horizontally transitioning the keyboard out on a navigation controller pop , UIViewController support of alternate landscape view, a reduction to the default font size for UITextView, and a limit on UIActionSheet titles to just two lines.

AT&T iPhone memo confirmation

AppleInsider can now definitively confirm an AT&T Mobility memo issued on Tuesday announcing vacation blackout days beginning next month, having received the message in its entirety (below).

The memo asks retail staffers to schedule any upcoming vacation days prior to June 15th or after July 12, so that they may participate in an "exciting Summer Promotional Launch" around that time -- presumed to be the launch of Apple's 3G iPhone.



AT&T Mobility made an almost identical request last year, which boosts confidence that Apple plans to launch its next-generation handset almost one year from the date of the original iPhone -- June 27th, the final Friday of the month.

eBay Buy-it-Now auction pulled

While Apple has been unusually silent regarding an unauthorized Mac clone on sale from Psystar Corporation, someone or something has caused eBay to take action regarding a pair ofcopycat systems that went up for sale on the auction website on Tuesday.

The listing for the $549 Leopard-based system is now suddenly "unavailable."

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[shawnathan]

@ ATT Letter:

Yuuuuuuuck, double spaces after sentences. Designer's typography nightmare or, a find and replace heaven.

[jasonfj]

Originally Posted by shawnathan

@ ATT Letter:

Yuuuuuuuck, double spaces after sentences. Designer's typography nightmare or, a find and replace heaven.

It's funny - I've designed typography for 20 years and won loads of awards in the UK and USA for my work, but I always double space after a full stop when I'm writing a document or message.

It's just easier to read.

[drjjones]

Just for the fun of it, let's say the new iphone or multiple models of iphone come out on June 27th ,or the 29th like I think , what will be the number on the first 2 days or 4 days of sale ? I say they will sell 3- 4 million phones in the first 2 or 4 days of June. This time u can buy as many iphones as u want and can carry. 3- 4 million in 2 days ordered or carried out. What do you think ?
This otta get some discussion . lol

[freethinker]

Originally Posted by drjjones

Just for the fun of it, let's say the new iphone or multiple models of iphone come out on June 27th ,or the 29th like I think , what will be the number on the first 2 days or 4 days of sale ? I say they will sell 3- 4 million phones in the first 2 or 4 days of June. This time u can buy as many iphones as u want and can carry. 3- 4 million in 2 days ordered or carried out. What do you think ?
This otta get some discussion . lol

I think you may have had too much coffee this morning. I really think that the recession in the USA, at least, will make it impossible to reach the 3-4 million mark you are speaking of. Unless the Iphone 3g is released simultaneously around the world, I do not see that mark being reached for a few months at the very least. With people deciding whether to buy groceries or get gasoline, I do not think an extravagant tech purchase is going to take off in those kinds of numbers. *Sips his rooibos tea*

[drjjones]

Originally Posted by freethinker

I think you may have had too much coffee this morning. I really think that the recession in the USA, at least, will make it impossible to reach the 3-4 million mark you are speaking of. Unless the Iphone 3g is released simultaneously around the world, I do not see that mark being reached for a few months at the very least. With people deciding whether to buy groceries or get gasoline, I do not think an extravagant tech purchase is going to take off in those kinds of numbers. *Sips his rooibos tea*

I believe in multiple country release ..,, yes .,,.. can't stand coffee, it makes me throw up ,.. and it's only been 1 cup of tea so far today , although it was a double in a pint lol, so that makes 2 cups . AND has to be no restriction on quantity u can buy . Probably not gonna happen on the quantity issue though ,. they will limit that to get more individual users to spread the message .

[freethinker]

Originally Posted by drjjones

I believe in multiple country release ..,, yes .,,.. can't stand coffee, it makes me throw up ,.. and it's only been 1 cup of tea so far today , although it was a double in a pint lol, so that makes 2 cups . AND has to be no restriction on quantity u can buy . Probably not gonna happen on the quantity issue though ,. they will limit that to get more individual users to spread the message .

I have this nagging sense that the Iphone 3g enterprize is going to be a failure. Even though I own apple stock, I can't see people making "gilded age" purchases when cities are going bankrupt.

http://www.nbc11.com/politics/16185467/detail.html

No one really cares about 3g except us computer geeks and even we are struggling with the downsizing taking place in tech companies, financial institutions
(thinking Bear Stearns specifically), etc. I can't imagine what people are facing in the heartland of the US, where work is scarce and being outsourced everyday to foreign lands.
Anyone care to discuss?

[melgross]

Originally Posted by drjjones

Just for the fun of it, let's say the new iphone or multiple models of iphone come out on June 27th ,or the 29th like I think , what will be the number on the first 2 days or 4 days of sale ? I say they will sell 3- 4 million phones in the first 2 or 4 days of June. This time u can buy as many iphones as u want and can carry. 3- 4 million in 2 days ordered or carried out. What do you think ?
This otta get some discussion . lol

I don't think so. The Thrill is Gone, as the song says.

I do think it will sell well those first days, but not to that tune (see how cleverly I did that?).

IF Apple can get this out at the end of the month, AND they can get it to all the new markets around that time, AND if they can get them there in the numbers required, THEN I see them selling more than the 3.6 million or so they would need to sell through September, to make their 10 million number for this calendar year.

But with Apple, that's a big but.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by freethinker

I have this nagging sense that the Iphone 3g enterprize is going to be a failure. Even though I own apple stock, I can't see people making "gilded age" purchases when cities are going bankrupt.

http://www.nbc11.com/politics/16185467/detail.html

No one really cares about 3g except us computer geeks and even we are struggling with the downsizing taking place in tech companies, financial institutions
(thinking Bear Stearns specifically), etc.
Anyone care to discuss?

I dn't agree with that. While sales won't be as good as they would have been without a recession, which is moving worldwide, they will still be good.

What people do when money is tight, is to change some buying patterns. For example, instead of buying a big Tv for a couple of thousand, as a luxury purchase, they might buy an iPhone, for several hundred.

People need some sense of luxury even in a recession to make themselves feel as though they aren't sinking.

Remember that with all the troubles, few are out of a job, or losing their homes, when compared to the entire market.

[.mac]

good to hear that iphone is coming to spain

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by drjjones

iphone come out on June 27th ,or the 29th like I think

Note that the 29th is a Sunday. The 27th would follow last year's release.

Originally Posted by melgross

I don't think so. The Thrill is Gone, as the song says.

I don't think it is. There are those (especially outside the US) that have been waiting for 3G and there is v2.0. I expect to see at least 100 apps in the App Store upon it's launch. I also expect at least a doubling of the current unit sales, which would mean 10M units sold in the last 6 months of this calendar year.

[SpamSandwich]

Originally Posted by jasonfj

It's funny - I've designed typography for 20 years and won loads of awards in the UK and USA for my work, but I always double space after a full stop when I'm writing a document or message.

It's just easier to read.

It's an old-fashioned habit and the change to one space is recognized as the proper standard now by the Chicago Manual of Style and newspaper standards.

http://wordwise.typepad.com/blog/200...e_what_yo.html

[diskimage]

Originally Posted by freethinker

I really think that the recession in the USA, at least, will make it impossible to reach the 3-4 million mark you are speaking of.

What recession? A recession is negative economic growth for two strait quarters. While the economy has slowed some we are currently not in a recession. In fact South Dakota's economy is doing quite well right now.

[freethinker]

Originally Posted by diskimage

What recession? A recession is negative economic growth for two strait quarters. While the economy has slowed some we are currently not in a recession. In fact South Dakota's economy is doing quite well right now.

Maybe the best economic brain currently around, former Fed chief Alan Greenspan, could enlighten you.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...jPc&refer=home

[cameronj]

Originally Posted by diskimage

What recession? A recession is negative economic growth for two strait quarters. While the economy has slowed some we are currently not in a recession. In fact South Dakota's economy is doing quite well right now.

You would also think that Apple's most recent quarterly earnings report would quiet the concerns over the economy a bit. The folks who are buying iPhones, Macs and iPods are clearly not choosing between groceries and gas. The fact is unemployment is incredibly low, and the part of the USA that is suffering seems to be middle America right now, which is not the typical market for $500 phones anyway. I'll be getting my second iPhone within a week of launch.

[cameronj]

Originally Posted by freethinker

Maybe the best economic brain currently around, former Fed chief Alan Greenspan, could enlighten you.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...jPc&refer=home

Indeed: "``We're in a recession,'' he said. ``But this is an awfully pale recession at the moment. The declines in employment have not been as big as you'd expect to see.''"

Arguing recession or not is a matter of semantics. The strict definition says we are not. But we are certainly close. There is no real-world difference between 0.1% growth and 0.1% contraction, but words do have meaning, and 0.1% growth, even for 10 straight years, is not a recession.

All that matters (to our discussion) is how the economy effects Apple purchases, and all the evidence that is public suggests that the effect is minimal right now.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by freethinker

Maybe the best economic brain currently around, former Fed chief Alan Greenspan, could enlighten you.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...jPc&refer=home

That article seems to suggest that it's somewhere in between - he called it a "pale" recession. It's not something I'm really worried about, I wasn't and I'm still not worried about it, Greenspan or not. I've felt for a while that this recession has been overhyped. "They" - being the people talking about recession, were talking about recession in January and the world still hasn't collapsed despite "their" tone suggesting it would. Apple still had a fantastic quarter in most respects. I have made it a point of telling people that their tone makes it sound like Great Depression II.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

It's an old-fashioned habit and the change to one space is recognized as the proper standard now by the Chicago Manual of Style and newspaper standards.

http://wordwise.typepad.com/blog/200...e_what_yo.html

Either way, it sounds like an overly rigid rule based on an overly subjective argument.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by solipsism

I don't think it is. There are those (especially outside the US) that have been waiting for 3G and there is v2.0. I expect to see at least 100 apps in the App Store upon it's launch. I also expect at least a doubling of the current unit sales, which would mean 10M units sold in the last 6 months of this calendar year.

I'm not saying that the interest is gone. But it's no longer the "new" thing. It's been around, and most people know what it is. Even moving to 3G won't change the familiarity. The new software will help, but it's still the iPhone. People will buy it, and it will do well, as I've said. But, people have already seen it.

Most of the "ooh" factor is gone.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

It's an old-fashioned habit and the change to one space is recognized as the proper standard now by the Chicago Manual of Style and newspaper standards.

http://wordwise.typepad.com/blog/200...e_what_yo.html

That was true forever—for typographically done work.

But for typed pages, such as memo's, two spaces is still considered to be the norm.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by diskimage

What recession? A recession is negative economic growth for two strait quarters. While the economy has slowed some we are currently not in a recession. In fact South Dakota's economy is doing quite well right now.

Want to bet we're in a recession? The supposed tiny growth last quarter will be, as always, subject to adjustment. Which way do you think that will go?

I'm willing to bet that the present quarter will be even worse.

Economists have been saying for several months now, that this will be one of the worst recessions since the end of WW II. And that it will be one of the longest.

I'm happy for S. Dakota. how many iPhones do you think Apple will sell there/ A thousand? That'll do it.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by freethinker

Maybe the best economic brain currently around, former Fed chief Alan Greenspan, could enlighten you.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...jPc&refer=home

Greenspan is responsible for much of this mess, though he's been trying to wriggle out of it. His legacy won't be what he wanted it to be.

I'd rather look back to Paul Volker, who as Greenspan's boss, got us out of the mess of the '80's.

[BuzDots]

Originally Posted by freethinker

I have this nagging sense that the Iphone 3g enterprize is going to be a failure. Even though I own apple stock, I can't see people making "gilded age" purchases when cities are going bankrupt.

No one really cares about 3g except us computer geeks and even we are struggling with the downsizing taking place in tech companies, financial institutions
(thinking Bear Stearns specifically), etc. I can't imagine what people are facing in the heartland of the US, where work is scarce and being outsourced everyday to foreign lands.
Anyone care to discuss?

I also disagree. 3G may be the geeky thing, but it has been played up from iPhones inception that this was the only thing missing (almost). IMHO I think many folks have delayed their purchase awaiting 3G - I certainly have - and now that there are rumblings of AT&T offering a $200.00 incentive, you can bet I think the wait was well worth it. What with all the new apps being developed, this may be bigger than RIMM ever emagined! - obviously. Count me in for a couple within the first week or so...

*Typical American Sentiment = Out here in the "heartland" no one gives a hoot about cities going bankrupt, or what Greenspan says, we have been living off credit for years and another couple of hundred bucks won't break anybody (you already had a cell phone anyway didn't you?)

Yes, a robust economy would double or triple immediate purchases, but when the Wall Street Journal is saying that the bottom has been reached, then I think folks are looking past this relatively short term problem to better days. Hell, if we hadn't talked about how bad it was, it wouldn't be such a self fulfilling prophecy.

Just some thoughts from the hinterlands...

[ArthurAscii]

Originally Posted by melgross

That was true forever—for typographically done work.

But for typed pages, such as memo's, two spaces is still considered to be the norm.

Plurals never take apostrophes (it's memos, not memo's).

Sorry, force of habit. I've just graded fifty papers and circled the same error four or five times. You'd think English majors would know by now...

[cameronj]

Originally Posted by melgross

That was true forever—for typographically done work.

But for typed pages, such as memo's, two spaces is still considered to be the norm.

What's considered the norm for appropriate use of apostrophes in plural, non-possessive words?

[cameronj]

Originally Posted by melgross

Want to bet we're in a recession? The supposed tiny growth last quarter will be, as always, subject to adjustment. Which way do you think that will go?

Any reason to think that the economists who compile the statistics are so dumb that they make predictable mistakes in their growth numbers? No? The revision may me up, may be down, may be zero. There's no way to know.

I'm willing to bet that the present quarter will be even worse.

That's what makes a market - but you're only guessing about the future. I would not be surprised if growth stayed above zero. I would not be surprised if growth was higher than last quarter but below 1%. I WOULD be surprised if growth was over 1.5%, or lower than -1%. But I hope you understand that no matter what you're willing to bet, no recession has yet begun.

Economists have been saying for several months now, that this will be one of the worst recessions since the end of WW II. And that it will be one of the longest.

Is that what they say? Which economists? Do any of them have a crystal ball? Economic forecasts are just that, forecasts. They don't reflect reality, nor do the cause their prediction to occur. So it may be the worst recession in 40 years, but as of now, there's no recession whatsoever, and Apple has continued to set sales records of their high end consumer discretionary products regardless. Doesn't that fact matter to you when you suggest doom and gloom?

I'm happy for S. Dakota. how many iPhones do you think Apple will sell there/ A thousand? That'll do it.

Doesn't SOUND like you're happy for anybody, least of all S Dakota.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by ArthurAscii

Plurals never take apostrophes (it's memos, not memo's).

Sorry, force of habit. I've just graded fifty papers and circled the same error four or five times. You'd think English majors would know by now...

Now, you're a wiseass. Yes, we do make a typo now and again. That doesn't change the facts of the argument.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by cameronj

What's considered the norm for appropriate use of apostrophes in plural, non-possessive words?

I just went through that, smartypants.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by cameronj

Any reason to think that the economists who compile the statistics are so dumb that they make predictable mistakes in their growth numbers? No? The revision may me up, may be down, may be zero. There's no way to know.

So far, almost every economic number that has come out during this administration has been revised downward. As most economists agree that we are in a recession, I think it's safe to assume that it won't be any different this time.

That's what makes a market - but you're only guessing about the future. I would not be surprised if growth stayed above zero. I would not be surprised if growth was higher than last quarter but below 1%. I WOULD be surprised if growth was over 1.5%, or lower than -1%. But I hope you understand that no matter what you're willing to bet, no recession has yet begun.

No. Again, most economists disagree with what you say. It's also being said that this quarter WILL be worse than the last one. Can you show evidence that this is wrong?

Is that what they say? Which economists? Do any of them have a crystal ball? Economic forecasts are just that, forecasts. They don't reflect reality, nor do the cause their prediction to occur. So it may be the worst recession in 40 years, but as of now, there's no recession whatsoever, and Apple has continued to set sales records of their high end consumer discretionary products regardless. Doesn't that fact matter to you when you suggest doom and gloom?

You can state that as many times as you like. It's still wrong.

Doesn't SOUND like you're happy for anybody, least of all S Dakota.

Did you fall on your head today?

[ArthurAscii]

Originally Posted by melgross

Now, you're a wiseass. Yes, we do make a typo now and again. That doesn't change the facts of the argument.

I'm sorry if you thought I was being a wiseass, but the argument was about typographical style. The fact that you made a typo was sort of funny in that context.

[cameronj]

Originally Posted by melgross

So far, almost every economic number that has come out during this administration has been revised downward. As most economists agree that we are in a recession, I think it's safe to assume that it won't be any different this time.

I don't agree. Most economists believe we are in a "slowdown" and that growth is only slightly positive. I think you're making things up when you suggest that "most" economists disagree with the official numbers.

No. Again, most economists disagree with what you say. It's also being said that this quarter WILL be worse than the last one. Can you show evidence that this is wrong?

Again, you say most economists disagree with me (I said that I thought this current quarter could see growth between -1% and 1%, and that no recession had yet begun), but I have not seen any proof of that. Who, besides Greenspan who made up a new type of economic growth, makes up this "most" economists?

I don't claim to be able to see the future, that's your job. I am only going on actual past results which show us still growing. The employment, price and interim growth numbers that have come out in the past month seem to me, taken as a whole, to show that the economy may very well hold steady this quarter. I don't see things getting worse than they were last quarter at the moment. Of course every day new things happen and things could change week to week.

Did you fall on your head today?

I'd rather sound like I fell on my head than sound like I kick my dog daily. You?

[user23]

Originally Posted by freethinker

Maybe the best economic brain currently around, former Fed chief Alan Greenspan, could enlighten you.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...jPc&refer=home

greenspan = goebbels

the man has done little but toot the horn loud, hard & long for the wealthy elite while taking away rights from workers...all the while saying, "this is best for you."

ugh.


btw: what's not often written of is that, yes, there are still new jobs opening up here & there in whatever sector of the U.S. economy one might care to examine...but, the inescapable trend ever since the famous .com bust has been that these new jobs are paying much, much less than before.

[SpamSandwich]

Originally Posted by melgross

I just went through that, smartypants.

Mel, most of the replies have been lighthearted. Lighten up.

[Lafe]

Originally Posted by diskimage

What recession? A recession is negative economic growth for two strait quarters. While the economy has slowed some we are currently not in a recession. In fact South Dakota's economy is doing quite well right now.

diskimage is right. Growth quarter after quarter does not mean "recession", even if it is
tiny growth. I've been saying this for a year or more, now. Why does the media (or
the government, or someone) want to convince us that "smaller growth" (which is still
growth) is a "recession"? How do 'they' benefit if we accept such a gloomy picture? Hmm?

Also, two spaces after a full stop is correct. Call me old-fashioned if you like; it's
more readable, and I like it, and I'll keep doing it, thank you.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by cameronj

I don't agree. Most economists believe we are in a "slowdown" and that growth is only slightly positive. I think you're making things up when you suggest that "most" economists disagree with the official numbers.

I'm not making anything up. I've no reason to. slowdown is right. We've slowed to a halt, and are moving slowly backwards.

Again, you say most economists disagree with me (I said that I thought this current quarter could see growth between -1% and 1%, and that no recession had yet begun), but I have not seen any proof of that. Who, besides Greenspan who made up a new type of economic growth, makes up this "most" economists?

Well, at least you agree that we MAY be in a ression now.

I don't know the names of most economists, do you? I just read the reports published in the Times and WSJ.

I don't claim to be able to see the future, that's your job. I am only going on actual past results which show us still growing. The employment, price and interim growth numbers that have come out in the past month seem to me, taken as a whole, to show that the economy may very well hold steady this quarter. I don't see things getting worse than they were last quarter at the moment. Of course every day new things happen and things could change week to week.

You predict the future every time you make one of your pronouncements here about Apple, which you do. i don't see anything different with this.

You're hedging yout bets, I see.
The market today isn't so sanguine. Look at how much it dropped.

I'd rather sound like I fell on my head than sound like I kick my dog daily. You?

If you have a dog, I'll kick it for you.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

Mel, most of the replies have been lighthearted. Lighten up.

Three in a row was too much, even for me.

[cameronj]

Originally Posted by melgross

Three in a row was too much, even for me.

Even for a patient saint like yourself! Amazing!

[SpamSandwich]

Originally Posted by melgross

Three in a row was too much, even for me.

BTW, this is not the thread for it, but I was right about Blu Ray not growing quickly, despite HD-DVD's demise.

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

BTW, this is not the thread for it, but I was right about Blu Ray not growing quickly, despite HD-DVD's demise.

This may explain some of it. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...dominance.html

P.S. I sent the link in a couple of days ago to AI. Thought they would have picked up on it by now. Although I haven't had time to go thru the entire article as yet, it may need further confirming to warrant re-publication.

[cameronj]

Originally Posted by melgross

I'm not making anything up. I've no reason to. slowdown is right. We've slowed to a halt, and are moving slowly backwards.

Yes, slowly backwards at 0.6% positive growth... uh huh....

Well, at least you agree that we MAY be in a ression now.

Ya think? I definitely do not "agree" that we may be in a recession now. There is zero chance that we're in a recession now, since growth last quarter was positive. After two quarters of negative growth we will be (if that happens) but "now" will never be part of a recession.

The market today isn't so sanguine. Look at how much it dropped.

Is that how you classify a recession? No wonder you're talking past me. Every day's market change indicates recession or growth in the economy, I had no idea. Is that what they teach you in the WSJ? I think you're reading the wrong sections!

Anyway you're a bitter guy, I'm done arguing these semantics. The official growth numbers show that you're wrong, but you've convinced yourself of what you believe, and no external information will change that, so why waste everyone's time? This isn't an economics forum anyway, we were talking about Apple's prospects for the iPhone, and your opinions on that are equally fixed (and equally contrary to reality, by the way).