Component report pins MacBook overhaul for third quarter

[AppleInsider]

The next update to Apple Inc.'s line of 13-inch MacBook consumer portables will arrive sometime during the third quarter of the year, Far Eastern component suppliers are reported to have revealed.

Without citing sources, the Chinese-language Commercial Times said Friday that Taiwan's AU Optronics and Chi Mei Optoelectronics will evenly split the LCD panel orders for the new notebooks, which will see a launch somewhere in the July to September timeframe.

These new MacBook, as AppleInsider exclusively reported last month, will see their first structural and aesthetic changes since being introduced as an Intel-based replacement for Apple's iBook line over two years ago.

More specifically, people familiar with the matter have said the notebooks will shed their plastic enclosures for ones constructed from more eco-friendly materials such as aircraft-grade aluminum and stainless steel.

When they arrive later this year, alongside similarly overhauled MacBook Pros, the notebooks should more closely resemble the overall appearance of Apple's aluminum iMacs and the MacBook Air, those same people have said.

The report by the Commercial Times offers the same timeframe for the new notebooks originally reported by AppleInsider, which is slightly later than the June timeframe reported by another technology publication.

Both the MacBook and MacBook Pro are expected to receive "Montevina"-based processors from the Intel's upcoming Centrino 2 platform, which require a new "Socket B" logic-board. The second-gen mobile Penryn chips boast a 1066MHz front-side bus and clock between 2.26GHz and 2.8GHz.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[bloggerblog]

I hope they come out with a mid-range desktop too, such as a mid-tower.

[Obi-Wan Kubrick]

Originally Posted by bloggerblog

I hope they come out with a mid-range desktop too, such as a mid-tower.

Whats wrong with the Mac Mini?

[crees!]

Unless this has been addressed, be prepared for a flood of complaints over less wireless range.

[11thIndian]

A mid-tower will not happen.

One of these days, the necessary size for the MacPro tower might be reduced, but Apple will not split it's product line- they've spend the last 10 years defining it. You either need the storage and card slots that a MacPro tower affords for pro Apps... or you don't and you buy a iMac or MacMini.

[fpsanders]

Originally Posted by bloggerblog

I hope they come out with a mid-range desktop too, such as a mid-tower.

Yeah, that would definitely help more people "make the switch".

But it seems that Apple is going for an all grey product line. Where's the color. I miss the clam shell!

[digitalclips]

I hope they get the 'Gestures' track pad too.

[eAi]

Originally Posted by digitalclips

I hope they get the 'Gestures' track pad too.

Seems likely. Apple are going to increasingly use Multitouch as a differentiator that Windows can't (currently) compete with.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by aaple

I don't see this happening any time in the next several years. The average consumer still uses an optical drive too often (or at least thinks he would need it too often...probably some of both) for Apple to cut it out. Why release the Macbook Air if you're going to take the drive out of the Macbook in a year?

Now, long-term I agree that the optical drive will be phased out as broadband becomes ubiquitous and much faster, which will lead to much smaller and lighter notebooks...but that's going to take awhile.

I think the tide may shift when Apple offers all their software, except maybe their pro apps, by download. If the only way to get it is on a disc, then dropping the optical from any existing product is premature. They need to push the studios to allow a lot more of their movies online too, at least for rent. The titles available for legal downloads only being offered in numbers that amount to 1% of the available DVD catalogs just doesn't bode well.

I like the Air, but that pesky optical drive is still too useful for me to drop or accept as a separate device.

[Haggar]

The 15 inch aluminum Powerbook G4 and 15 inch MacBook Pro seem to get a lot of dents around the DVD slot. I see customers bringing these in all the time for busted DVD slots. Repairing this type of damage requires totally disassembling the entire laptop, removing every single component, and replacing the entire bottom part of the laptop. This process is both time consuming for the technician and expensive for the customer. Even under normal usage, the DVD slot tends to deform. If Apple made the laptop with a fully open front for the DVD drive, then all that would be needed is to slide out the old drive and slide in a new one, instead of all the unnecessary hassle that one has to deal with today.

[rdas7]

I could see them rolling out the wireless optical drive software solution that they introduced with the MacBook Air (that is, ship a laptop with no optical drive to shave off weight + cost, and then offer the optical drive as an external option for those who want it).

This would further differentiate the MacBook line from the MacBook Pro line, as well as fit in with Apple's digital media strategy (they'd like everyone to buy stuff from the Apple Store). After all, the cost/benefit equation for the optical drive in a laptop for non-power users has shifted in the last few years. Most activity is online now (including software installation/updates), media can be consumed wirelessly, and portability is paramount. For most other cases, an external drive is a viable solution, or the shared drive software that they developed for the Air.

If you disagreed with any of the above and think that an optical drive is essential, look at it from Apple's perspective: you're a MacBook Pro customer! (And you just got a better graphics card!)

Dropping the optical drive on the MacBook would enable them to make the enclosure substantially smaller/lighter/stronger/cheaper, it's an all around win situation. Come to think of it, the Air fits the product matrix in place of the regular MacBook. All they need is a 13" MacBook Pro.

[aaple]

Originally Posted by 11thIndian

A mid-tower will not happen.

One of these days, the necessary size for the MacPro tower might be reduced, but Apple will not split it's product line- they've spend the last 10 years defining it. You either need the storage and card slots that a MacPro tower affords for pro Apps... or you don't and you buy a iMac or MacMini.

I totally agree with this. Think about the potential benefits of a mid-tower vs. an iMac: customizable display and greater potential for storage and upgrades. I might be missing something, but what percentage of the average computer user really needs these but not the additional perks of the Mac Pro (better everything, extensive customization and upgrade possibilities, more cores, etc.)? I would guess that it's a rather low %. For most consumers that need a desktop, the iMac is a powerful, appealing, and simple all-in-one solution, and the power users that need more would stick with a Mac Pro anyways, methinks.

[aaple]

Originally Posted by rdas7

I could see them rolling out the wireless optical drive software solution that they introduced with the MacBook Air (that is, ship a laptop with no optical drive to shave off weight + cost, and then offer the optical drive as an external option for those who want it).

This would further differentiate the MacBook line from the MacBook Pro line, as well as fit in with Apple's digital media strategy (they'd like everyone to buy stuff from the Apple Store). After all, the cost/benefit equation for the optical drive in a laptop for non-power users has shifted in the last few years. Most activity is online now (including software installation/updates), media can be consumed wirelessly, and portability is paramount. For most other cases, an external drive is a viable solution, or the shared drive software that they developed for the Air.

If you disagreed with any of the above and think that an optical drive is essential, look at it from Apple's perspective: you're a MacBook Pro customer! (And you just got a better graphics card!)

Dropping the optical drive on the MacBook would enable them to make the enclosure substantially smaller/lighter/stronger/cheaper, it's an all around win situation. Come to think of it, the Air fits the product matrix in place of the regular MacBook. All they need is a 13" MacBook Pro.

I don't see this happening any time in the next several years. The average consumer still uses an optical drive too often (or at least thinks he would need it too often...probably some of both) for Apple to cut it out. Why release the Macbook Air if you're going to take the drive out of the Macbook in a year?

Now, long-term I agree that the optical drive will be phased out as broadband becomes ubiquitous and much faster, which will lead to much smaller and lighter notebooks...but that's going to take awhile.

[city]

Originally Posted by bloggerblog

I hope they come out with a mid-range desktop too, such as a mid-tower.

Get a cube.

[Cubert]

I'd like to see the MacBooks in aluminum and the MacBook Pros in some sort of black titanium/carbon enclosures.

[paxman]

Originally Posted by aaple

I totally agree with this. Think about the potential benefits of a mid-tower vs. an iMac: customizable display and greater potential for storage and upgrades. I might be missing something, but what percentage of the average computer user really needs these but not the additional perks of the Mac Pro (better everything, extensive customization and upgrade possibilities, more cores, etc.)? I would guess that it's a rather low %. For most consumers that need a desktop, the iMac is a powerful, appealing, and simple all-in-one solution, and the power users that need more would stick with a Mac Pro anyways, methinks.

Apple will do this if their market research tells them to. Plain and simple. PC users in particular, and a fair share of Mac users have always complained about the lack of upgradability. But the kind of people who upgrade their computers are also the ones that hang out in places like this (forums) and complain. Not AppleInsider forum users, you understand ;-). But, seriously, how many of the millions of Apple and PC users upgrade their computers beyond RAM and possibly a hard disk though I am sure 99% of HD replacements are not done by end users. So for the vast majority of users the iMac is the perfect solution. For the Pro, the MacPro is also perfect. Apple is not a niche computer maker.

[aaple]

Originally Posted by Cubert

I'd like to see the MacBooks in aluminum and the MacBook Pros in some sort of black titanium/carbon enclosures.

If they don't somehow differentiate the MBP enclosure, then the only differences other than raw power/speed would be size and graphics. Seems like it needs a little more separation from the Macbook line...otherwise, I agree with others on this forum that they should have 13", 15", and 17" form factors for the Macbook and call the high end specs of each the "Pro." Otherwise, calling a notebook Pro because it's bigger and has dedicated graphics doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Of course, "they should" doesn't mean "they will..."

[TBaggins]

Originally Posted by bloggerblog

I hope they come out with a mid-range desktop too, such as a mid-tower.

Yup. Check my sig.


.

[rdas7]

Originally Posted by aaple

I don't see this happening any time in the next several years. The average consumer still uses an optical drive too often (or at least thinks he would need it too often...probably some of both) for Apple to cut it out. Why release the Macbook Air if you're going to take the drive out of the Macbook in a year?

Because when the Air came out, everyone said "ZOMG!" and there was a "cool" factor about it. Now that everyone who ponied up for the first version has got one, everyone else can have one too!

Now, long-term I agree that the optical drive will be phased out as broadband becomes ubiquitous and much faster, which will lead to much smaller and lighter notebooks...but that's going to take awhile.

I would argue that moment has come. Apple was the first to introduce USB, Wifi, and drop the floppy drive.

[aaple]

Originally Posted by rdas7

Because when the Air came out, everyone said "ZOMG!" and there was a "cool" factor about it. Now that everyone who ponied up for the first version has got one, everyone else can have one too!



I would argue that moment has come. Apple was the first to introduce USB, Wifi, and drop the floppy drive.

Until software is more widely available for download and movies are available at faster speeds, I just don't see it. As it stands, to install most software, you would need either a second computer (which most users don't have) or an external optical drive (which is annoying). Again, I think it's coming, but not for a few years. No way Apple releases the Air and then a Macbook - optical drive a year later. That would massively cannibalize Air sales and Apple isn't stupid enough to do that.

[stonefree]

Originally Posted by 11thIndian

A mid-tower will not happen.

One of these days, the necessary size for the MacPro tower might be reduced, but Apple will not split it's product line- they've spend the last 10 years defining it. You either need the storage and card slots that a MacPro tower affords for pro Apps... or you don't and you buy a iMac or MacMini.

.....or you stick with a PC because Apple won't address the Grand Canyon sized hole in its desktop lineup. Apple has always offered a true single processor tower and now that hardly anyone really need dual processors (even a lot of high end apps can't handle more than four cores), that's the only option. And no, the single Xeon Mac Pro configuration doesn't count- it's really just a crippled dual processor setup (all the added costs but no benfits aside from having the option of adding a second chip down the line).

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by aaple

No way Apple releases the Air and then a Macbook - optical drive a year later. That would massively cannibalize Air sales and Apple isn't stupid enough to do that.

That could only be the case if everybody was buying both.

Who buys laptops? Those who like or need portability over additional functionality.

Of those who buy laptops:
Who buys the Air over the Macbook? Those who want exceptional portability over functionality

Who buys the Macbook over the Air? Those who want additional functionality over portability.

Who buys 2 laptops? Nobody.

[allblue]

There is so much to admire about Apple, and watching the Jobs Plan for World Domination unfold is fascinating as an intellectual exercise if nothing else. However, they are ruthless at times. They know their market extremely well, and their desktop range shows this. The minis for entry level or second computer, the iMac for consumers and the pro range for professionals, and as the large majority of their customers fit into one of those broad categories it works well for both parties. However, if you sit in between two of those categories it is something of a dilemma, as is the case with me. I produce artwork on my aged (but beloved) G4 iMac, and could be described as a serious hobbyist/prosumer. What I do is for my own creative satisfaction, and for friends, and perhaps in time there may be some modest commercial possibilities with what I do. The top of the range iMac (which this was when I bought it) is the ideal machine for me, except that I really do not want a glossy screen, because accurate colour is essential to my work. On the other hand, I really cannot justify the cost of a Mac Pro and decent monitor so I am stuck betwixt and between, hence by default my trusty G4 has to keep trundling away.

I think this is why they have made all iMacs with glossy screens, and why I fear they will not change it despite being asked to by their customers. The top iMac, particularly since the fourth 'extreme' model was introduced, was turning up in a number of professional graphic studios, but as we know they are supposed to buy Pros (and ideally an ACD), and so now if they want colour accuracy they are compelled to move up a level. The 3.06 iMac is the absolutely perfect specification/price machine for me, and if it wasn't for the glossy screen I would be writing this on one already. I understand why they do it, it is a clearly defined and canny bit of strategy, but its not doing me any favours.

[number9]

Originally Posted by Cubert

I'd like to see the MacBooks in aluminum and the MacBook Pros in some sort of black titanium/carbon enclosures.

You do realize that titanium is still a relatively expensive metal, and that carbon fibers are prohibitively expensive. Sure, CF is cheaper than it was a few years ago, but to make an affordable laptop with the material, it isn't quite yet feasible. Carbon fiber production hasn't yet been ramped up enough. Plus, I believe Aluminum is still more eco-friendly, since carbon composites require a resin base that is typically made from a petroleum based substance.

Other than colors on the Macbook, I think the lone distinctions will be screen size and the hardware specs.

[MFago]

Originally Posted by aaple

I totally agree with this. Think about the potential benefits of a mid-tower vs. an iMac: customizable display and greater potential for storage and upgrades. I might be missing something, but what percentage of the average computer user really needs these but not the additional perks of the Mac Pro (better everything, extensive customization and upgrade possibilities, more cores, etc.)? I would guess that it's a rather low %. For most consumers that need a desktop, the iMac is a powerful, appealing, and simple all-in-one solution, and the power users that need more would stick with a Mac Pro anyways, methinks.

We use laptops at home and I need a home file server, call it an XServe SOHO. Take the mainboard from a Mini, add 4 drive bays, perhaps one PCI slot and beef up the power supply and fans etc. Put it in a very cute mini-tower case. I'd think $999-$1299 wouldn't be unreasonable.

The closest thing I can get to this is a Mac Mini with an external drive enclosure(s) using Firewire 400 (not really meant for a server), or $2500 for a Mac Pro (way overkill). So guess what? I haven't bought anything ...

Apple wants us to get all of our music/TV/Movies over iTunes, but won't sell us any place to put it!

[razorpit]

Originally Posted by MFago

We use laptops at home and I need a home file server, call it an XServe SOHO. Take the mainboard from a Mini, add 4 drive bays, perhaps one PCI slot and beef up the power supply and fans etc. Put it in a very cute mini-tower case. I'd think $999-$1299 wouldn't be unreasonable.

The closest thing I can get to this is a Mac Mini with an external drive enclosure(s) using Firewire 400 (not really meant for a server), or $2500 for a Mac Pro (way overkill). So guess what? I haven't bought anything ...

Apple wants us to get all of our music/TV/Movies over iTunes, but won't sell us any place to put it!

Glad to see I'm not the only one thinking the same...

--Dave

[Hudson1]

Originally Posted by MFago

We use laptops at home and I need a home file server, call it an XServe SOHO. Take the mainboard from a Mini, add 4 drive bays, perhaps one PCI slot and beef up the power supply and fans etc. Put it in a very cute mini-tower case. I'd think $999-$1299 wouldn't be unreasonable.

The closest thing I can get to this is a Mac Mini with an external drive enclosure(s) using Firewire 400 (not really meant for a server), or $2500 for a Mac Pro (way overkill). So guess what? I haven't bought anything ...

Apple wants us to get all of our music/TV/Movies over iTunes, but won't sell us any place to put it!

Kind of like a cross between a Time Capsule and an Xserve?

[reallynotnick]

The reason I want a cheap tower is not so much for it's upgradability but it's power/price ratio.
The iMac has a mobile CPU and a mobile GPU which to me is the most important part of the machine. By increasing the case size and just using desktop chips you could have a considerably faster computer for the exact same price.
The Mac Pro's are really out of that golden power per dollar ratio as they use the latest and greatest chips which cost a pretty penny.

I do have to worry about wireless signal strength with the aluminum cases, couldn't the signal go through the screen front side of the screen though? I suppose not as it's a know fact that the MBP's have worse wireless then the MB's, I hope they can alleviate this problem especially if apple wants to go all wireless which I would love.

[bobo28]

Originally Posted by Hudson1

Kind of like a cross between a Time Capsule and an Xserve?

Actually I think you are close to what Steve has in mind. A combination of an Xserve, Time Capsule and Apple TV: a "whole home server" seems like Apples near future. Set it up and go from anywhere in the house. Laptops, desk tops , iphones/ipods can all access it . Set top boxes or adapters ( wifi/or whatever) for TV's/monitors, appliences , even your car, etc.

[Abster2core]

Originally Posted by MFago

We use laptops at home and I need a home file server,

Not sure how you plan to use it, but I have 6 Macs at home and set up a wireless Mac File Server using a Mini as described here http://www.macinstruct.com/node/181.

[djames42]

Originally Posted by Haggar

The 15 inch aluminum Powerbook G4 and 15 inch MacBook Pro seem to get a lot of dents around the DVD slot. I see customers bringing these in all the time for busted DVD slots.

I have a cheap plastic speck snap-on cover (red) for my MBP. It protects the case from scratches, dents, and presumably from busted DVD slots too. It also looks cool

[Tailpipe]

This AI story leads me to predict five things:

1. New MacBook line-up condenses both MacBook Pro and MacBook into a single model range offered in three screen sizes 13", 15" and 17". Each model will be available in a Pro configuration, offering faster chips, higher res screens, high end GPUs and extra memory. All will come with in-built DVD drive. All will have aircraft grade aluminum enclosures.

2. New macBook products announced on Monday 9th June by SJ and on sale by 30th June.

3. Mac sales will go through the roof.

4. I will have a shiny new MacBook book sitting on my desk in a matter of days to match my brand new 3G iPhone.

5. I will never use VIsta again.

[Macd-to-death]

I was under the impression that the 'third quarter' was April to June, not July to September (which is usually called 4Q). Doesn't the fiscal year begin in October?
Do they mean 'third quarter' or July-September?

[kb9uwu]

Originally Posted by stonefree

.....or you stick with a PC because Apple won't address the Grand Canyon sized hole in its desktop lineup. Apple has always offered a true single processor tower and now that hardly anyone really need dual processors (even a lot of high end apps can't handle more than four cores), that's the only option. And no, the single Xeon Mac Pro configuration doesn't count- it's really just a crippled dual processor setup (all the added costs but no benfits aside from having the option of adding a second chip down the line).

BS... I bought the single processor mac pro because I needed the internal expandability and didn't need the insane power of 8 cores. The extra $ I saved helped pay for internal audio processing cards for Logic Pro. You can't add a second processor to the BTO single processor without installing a new motherboard... so those looking to save some $ and upgrade to a dual engine in the future are screwed.

[bobo28]

Originally Posted by Macd-to-death

I was under the impression that the 'third quarter' was April to June, not July to September (which is usually called 4Q). Doesn't the fiscal year begin in October?
Do they mean 'third quarter' or July-September?

Every jurisdiction in the U.S. (primarily the states) have slightly different rules. However, generally a corporation can start its fiscal year any time "it" wants to. For the most part, large publicly traded corporations like Apple start their fiscal year in January. I believe all of the U.S. exchanges still require this as a condition of listing. (In order to maintain consistency of reporting, etc.) Usually, it is smaller privately held corporations that start their fiscal year at different times of the calendar year.
Apples quarters are: Q1. Jan. Feb. March. Q2. April May June Q3. July, August, Sept. Q4. Oct. Nov. Dec. I would guess that the new laptops will ship Aug/Sept, but be announced earlier, perhaps at WWDC or in July. This makes them available for Education ordering and Student back to school planning and purchasing. Then again, its Steve and Apple so you never know . . . hope that helps.

[oilburner]

Originally Posted by bobo28

Every jurisdiction in the U.S. (primarily the states) have slightly different rules. However, generally a corporation can start its fiscal year any time "it" wants to. For the most part, large publicly traded corporations like Apple start their fiscal year in January. I believe all of the U.S. exchanges still require this as a condition of listing. (In order to maintain consistency of reporting, etc.) Usually, it is smaller privately held corporations that start their fiscal year at different times of the calendar year.
Apples quarters are: Q1. Jan. Feb. March. Q2. April May June Q3. July, August, Sept. Q4. Oct. Nov. Dec. I would guess that the new laptops will ship Aug/Sept, but be announced earlier, perhaps at WWDC or in July. This makes them available for Education ordering and Student back to school planning and purchasing. Then again, its Steve and Apple so you never know . . . hope that helps.

From Apple's Investor Relations FAQ:

Q: What is Apple's fiscal year?
A: Apple's fiscal year 2008 runs from September 30, 2007 to September 27, 2008.

So the question remains. Is Q3 the calendar Q3 or is it Apple's Fiscal Q3?

[zanshin]

Originally Posted by reallynotnick

The reason I want a cheap tower is not so much for it's upgradability (sic) but it's power/price ratio.

Exactly why Apple doesn't want to build one. Why add additional product design and management, component and finished product inventory, mfg. lines, and potentially massive support issues tied to third party DIY upgrades, just to make razor-thin margins so you can compete with all the other beige-box systems? That is not the road to shareholder happy-land.

The vast majority of the market for low-cost computers will likely stay with Windows because it's what they "know" how to use from work at the office. The rest of us who want a mid-tower Mac only have to look at Apple's history to know that too many product lines stretched resources too thin, and no one was happy, so Steve's gonna keep it on the money road. The name of the game is profitable sales leading to consistent share price growth, not pleasing every possible market segment.

[oilburner]

Originally Posted by bobo28

Every jurisdiction in the U.S. (primarily the states) have slightly different rules. However, generally a corporation can start its fiscal year any time "it" wants to. For the most part, large publicly traded corporations like Apple start their fiscal year in January. I believe all of the U.S. exchanges still require this as a condition of listing. (In order to maintain consistency of reporting, etc.) Usually, it is smaller privately held corporations that start their fiscal year at different times of the calendar year.
Apples quarters are: Q1. Jan. Feb. March. Q2. April May June Q3. July, August, Sept. Q4. Oct. Nov. Dec. I would guess that the new laptops will ship Aug/Sept, but be announced earlier, perhaps at WWDC or in July. This makes them available for Education ordering and Student back to school planning and purchasing. Then again, its Steve and Apple so you never know . . . hope that helps.

BTW, the exchanges do not require any specificity as far as Fiscal Year dates for when they list. Apple even chooses to not do it on the 1st of a month, which helps them visually smooth the trend-lines, and also affects holidays. I.E. - if they started their "quarter" on 9/30/08, which means their Q1 end was probably just before New Years, so they could close out prior to the New Years/end of year rush that everyone else is in.

Also, given Apple's dependence on the school market up until the mid 90's, being able to close the year in September closed out their year with the retail rush for new computers on top of the already-signed institutional contracts with school districts and universities that would have been done in the spring of that given year.

Incidentally, Sun's fiscal year starts July 1. This ties them closer to the Fed fiscal year and reduces end-of-year dependence on sales, traditionally allowing them to do a Christmas-to-New Years shutdown.

[suhail]

Originally Posted by kb9uwu

BS... I bought the single processor mac pro because I needed the internal expandability and didn't need the insane power of 8 cores. The extra $ I saved helped pay for internal audio processing cards for Logic Pro. You can't add a second processor to the BTO single processor without installing a new motherboard... so those looking to save some $ and upgrade to a dual engine in the future are screwed.

Exactly!
I need a mid-tower because I'd like to have two 20" monitors and a 12" Wacom. MacPro starts at a whopping $2,700, it's insane! iMac and the Mac-mini cannot serve my needs.

If that doesn't happen soon, I'll be forced to buy a nice PC box, install hackintosh, and slowly migrate to the dark, and more flexible, side. It'll be sad... been an Apple user since 1981.

[aresee]

Originally Posted by Abster2core

Not sure how you plan to use it, but I have 6 Macs at home and set up a wireless Mac File Server using a Mini as described here http://www.macinstruct.com/node/181.

I would like a Home Server that worked with iTunes, iPhoto, Address Book and iCal. These would be multi-user, master libraries that individual clients could sync with, use subsets of and edit. Particularly as my iTunes and iPhoto libraries are now to large to fit on my MacBook.