PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 now fuller rivals to Apple TV

[AppleInsider]

Microsoft and Sony maneuvers at the Electronic Entertainment Expo now turn their respective Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 consoles into stronger media hubs , and more direct challengers to Apple TV.

The additional competition first surfaced on Monday, when Microsoft said it would sign on with Netflix.

Gamers with both an Xbox Live Gold subscription and a Netflix account will have the option this fall of streaming an unlimited number of movies and TV shows from the movie provider's Watch Instantly online service, bypassing the need to download the entire video to disk while still having control over pausing and skipping through content. The feature will also give Netflix customers a unique social component that lets as many as eight Xbox Live members watch a movie at the same time.

On top of the video service, the company has also revamped the Xbox 360 interface with a design that will seem familiar to users of iTunes' Cover Flow interface and has struck a deal with NBC-Universal to host its movies and TV shows -- a move that emphasizes the rift between Apple and the studio, which was forcefully split from iTunes after neither company could come to terms on variable pricing.

Meanwhile, Sony itself has also kicked off the release of its first video service for its own game system: The PlayStation Store is on Tuesday carrying movies and TV shows from Sony, Apple's close partner Disney, as well as Fox, MGM, Paramount, and several other studios.

The service from the outset is largely comparable to services from Apple and others and offers TV show purchases for $1.99 per episode as well as movies for between $9.99 and $19.99 depending on the title; movies are also available to rent for between $2.99 and $3.99. Sony offers a choice between standard and high-definition versions and is one of the few to offer HD for TV shows.

Both Microsoft and Sony's efforts put even greater strain on Apple TV, which has struggled to gain a foothold in the marketplace and has been consciously talked down for its role as the "fourth leg" in Apple's product lineup. Simultaneously, the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 have both sold millions of units while frequently offering media playback (with the exception of the PlayStation's Blu-ray) only as a secondary feature.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[iVlad]

1. I don't see XBox nor PS3 to be a competitors to Apple TV. Maybe its just me or not, but I see Apple TV targeted towards Family Audience and XBOX and PS3 towards younger generation and teenagers.

I can't see Parents using their kids PS3 to rent movies, kid is not gonna like it because he/she will want to play, so Parents will just get Apple TV for their own use.



2. To fight back, Apple just have to make Apple TV compatible with Games and other Apps and make Apple Remote into a Wii like pointer with Accelerometer.

[Samnuva]

Originally Posted by iVlad

2. To fight back, Apple just have to make Apple TV compatible with Games and other Apps and make Apple Remote into a Wii like pointer with Accelerometer.

I've been playing with both my old and new iPhones, and I'm starting to realize, The iPhone is going to render the PSP, DS, etc. Obsolete. It's just much more intuative, and as soon as there are better games for it, It is going to blow them out of the playing field. It's quite possible that this could happen with ATV as well.

[nacnud]

Just open the Apple TV in the same way as the iphone, with a SDK and allow the USB port to be used for a TV tuner or DVD etc.

Problem solved

[GuyInFlorida]

Originally Posted by iVlad

1. I don't see XBox nor PS3 to be a competitors to Apple TV. Maybe its just me or not, but I see Apple TV targeted towards Family Audience and XBOX and PS3 towards younger generation and teenagers.

I can't see Parents using their kids PS3 to rent movies, kid is not gonna like it because he/she will want to play, so Parents will just get Apple TV for their own use.



2. To fight back, Apple just have to make Apple TV compatible with Games and other Apps and make Apple Remote into a Wii like pointer with Accelerometer.

Not necessarily. I got my PS3 primarily as a Blu-Ray player. I am 35 and absolutely suck at video games.

I do agree with your point number 2, but the iPhone/iPod touch is TOO expensive to be used as an everyday remote.

I don't know about Xbox 360, but the PSN store has been improved but it still isn't as easy to navigate than then the Apple TV. And the Sony Wallet thing is a pain to use.

[pt123]

Originally Posted by iVlad

1. I don't see XBox nor PS3 to be a competitors to Apple TV.

I don't see it as competitors either. PS3 has a Blu-ray player which plays all my DVD's too.

[ALPICH]

you could not pay me enough to use my XBOX for music / movies. It is way too noisy.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by GuyInFlorida

Not necessarily. I got my PS3 primarily as a Blu-Ray player. I am 35 and absolutely suck at video games.

I do agree with your point number 2, but the iPhone/iPod touch is TOO expensive to be used as an everyday remote.

I don't know about Xbox 360, but the PSN store has been improved but it still isn't as easy to navigate than then the Apple TV. And the Sony Wallet thing is a pain to use.

The PS3 system is better than the 360 system in terms of money, at least Sony puts the prices in terms of actual currency. Microsoft's system is that you buy points, and everything you bought was noted in terms of points. I think it's 80 points to a dollar.

I understand what you mean by the wallet system, but I understand why they used it. What it is is you can give family members a certain amount of money in the system without just giving them the credit card or bank card, or having to buy a card from a store.

All Apple really needs to do to counter the 360 Netflix move is to license the Netflix player, it's supposedly available to license from all comers. Apple's library and Netflix's library supposedly doesn't overlap much anyway.

[bloggerblog]

Apple should also offer rental for all the TV-shows. I don't mind purchasing a few TV-shows, but I 'd rent many more.

[DirtyBoots]

I bought a PS3 mainly for Blu-Ray and games. I was thinking about getting an AppleTV, but then I realized that the PS3 plays DivX movies. You can put your movie files on a simple thumb drive pop it in, and start playing them straight from the thumb drive.

I have no use for the AppleTV now. It doesn't have enough features to make it worth it... and the fact that you have to hack it to get it to play DivX files is nothing but a pain and it's main flaw in my opinion. And yes I know you can convert the DivX movies to mp4, but that is a complete waste of time.

Unless it gets a DV-R and the ability to play files other than mp4, I would say AppleTV is dead in the water after these features from Sony and Microsoft.

[solsun]

Originally Posted by iVlad

1.

I can't see Parents using their kids PS3 to rent movies, kid is not gonna like it because he/she will want to play, so Parents will just get Apple TV for their own use.

)

Actually, the PS3 is the top selling Blu-Ray player available..

[winterspan]

I think for the AppleTV to compete well, they need to open it up, and make significant changes.

It NEEDS at minimum to be able to play EVERY POPULAR VIDEO FORMAT. Let developers write applications or plugins for it that extend it's functionality. Open the USB port up for external HDDs or peripherals like a TV tuner.
Integrate a Blu-ray driver, especially while the market is just starting! I'm sure in just a few days, Apple's employees could come up with some great new innovative ideas to better the AppleTV...

Secondly, they need to get NBC/Universal back into the iTunes stores, along with any other remaining studios, and BOLSTER THE CATALOG! There is no reason why I shouldn't be able to find just about any possible movie on iTunes! They should budge more on variable pricing if they have to, but push back harder on the BS 24-hour limit, and get that extended out to 3-days.

Originally Posted by iVlad

1. I don't see XBox nor PS3 to be a competitors to Apple TV. Maybe its just me or not, but I see Apple TV targeted towards Family Audience and XBOX and PS3 towards younger generation and teenagers. I can't see Parents using their kids PS3 to rent movies, kid is not gonna like it because he/she will want to play, so Parents will just get Apple TV for their own use.

The problem with that idea is that a large amount of the "kids" you speak of are 18-40. The Playstation has turned out to be a great media device, the primary reason I purchased it as I'm not a huge gamer. I wanted a Blu-ray drive, and this thing has been perfect. Not only is the Blu-ray player excellent, but I stream movies and podcasts from a computer upstairs via WiFi (using uPnP - windows media player 11). Now I will be able to rent downloaded movies? perfect. Apparently, the xBox360 can do much of this and more, but it DOESN'T have a Blu-ray player, WiFi is $100 extra, and noisy as hell. I can't even tell when the Playstation 3 is turned on it's so quiet in my "entertainment table".

For the usually proprietary, Hollywood friendly Sony, it's also quite extraordinary that the PS3 supports Divx/XVid/H264/Mpeg2/Mpeg4. Also, a user-removable harddrive unlock the xBox 360. You can easily pop in a 250 or 320GB 2.5"!

It's definitely not as polished or as intuitive to access/rent media as the AppleTV, but unfortunately for Apple, it's good enough to keep me from buying one.

QUOTE=GuyInFlorida;1279188]Not necessarily. I got my PS3 primarily as a Blu-Ray player. I am 35 and absolutely suck at video games. I don't know about Xbox 360, but the PSN store has been improved but it still isn't as easy to navigate than then the Apple TV. And the Sony Wallet thing is a pain to use.[/QUOTE]

Yep I agree. It's not as polished as the AppleTV, but the PS3 is quite capable as a networked media player! And many who own it are adults who purchased it for the BR player and media functionality.

[solsun]

Originally Posted by DirtyBoots

I bought a PS3 mainly for Blu-Ray and games. I was thinking about getting an AppleTV, but then I realized that the PS3 plays DivX movies. You can put your movie files on a simple thumb drive pop it in, and start playing them straight from the thumb drive.

I have no use for the AppleTV now. It doesn't have enough features to make it worth it... and the fact that you have to hack it to get it to play DivX files is nothing but a pain and it's main flaw in my opinion. And yes I know you can convert the DivX movies to mp4, but that is a complete waste of time.

Unless it gets a DV-R and the ability to play files other than mp4, I would say AppleTV is dead in the water after these features from Sony and Microsoft.

Not a chance.. As Apple has proven time and time again, It's not just features, it's the software. The iTunes integration alone offers something those other devices will never be able to offer. Add to that the portability with the content via iPods, iPhones, Macs and PCs.. You certainly can't take a tv show you bought on your XBox 360 with you on your Blackberry, but you CAN take a tv show you bought on iTunes/Apple Tv with you on your iPod/iPhone.. That is a huge benefit only available within the Apple ecosystem..

[solsun]

Originally Posted by winterspan

I think for the AppleTV to compete well, they need to open it up! It NEEDS at minimum to be able to play EVERY VIDEO FORMAT.

It won't happen.

Apple's intent is to create a de facto standard with video content on the web using Quicktime/H.264. The one way to create a standard is to disable the ability to play other formats... And since Apple is such a dominant force in mobile devices, they have a better chance at doing this than any other.

[DirtyBoots]

Originally Posted by solsun

Not a chance.. It's not just features, it's the software. The iTunes integration alone offers something those other devices will never be able to offer. Add to that the portability with the content via iPods, iPhones, Macs and PCs..

Being able to play material from my iTunes on my TV is not worth $229 to me. And it's not going to be worth it to a lot of people considering how the economy is going. Apple has already scaled back it's push of AppleTV. The writing is on the wall. It might stick around, but the promise it had has died out because Apple was slow to add features and get rid of their love of proprietary formats.

The only people who will buy this are apple fanatics or people who are computer illiterate and can only deal with something when it's beyond easy. AppleTV has lost almost all of it's sex appeal in the consumer media player market over the past year.

[mark2005]

Originally Posted by winterspan

I think for the AppleTV to compete well, they need to open it up, and make significant changes.

It NEEDS at minimum to be able to play EVERY POPULAR VIDEO FORMAT. Let developers write applications or plugins for it that extend it's functionality. Open the USB port up for external HDDs or peripherals like a TV tuner.
Integrate a Blu-ray driver, especially while the market is just starting! I'm sure in just a few days, Apple's employees could come up with some great new innovative ideas to better the AppleTV...

Secondly, they need to get NBC/Universal back into the iTunes stores, along with any other remaining studios, and BOLSTER THE CATALOG! There is no reason why I shouldn't be able to find just about any possible movie on iTunes! They should budge more on variable pricing if they have to, but push back harder on the BS 24-hour limit, and get that extended out to 3-days.

Well, your first point is at odds with your second point. As it is, NBC Universal is unhappy with the lack of action by Apple to not play (or remove) pirated copies of its video from the iPod/iPhone/AppleTV. And now you propose that AppleTV play more formats, which would include the more popular formats used for video pirating...

[solsun]

Originally Posted by DirtyBoots

Being able to play material from my iTunes on my TV is not worth $229 to me. And it's not going to be worth it to a lot of people considering how the economy is going. Apple has already scaled back it's push of AppleTV. The writing is on the wall. It might stick around, but the promise it had has died out because Apple was slow to add features and get rid of their love of proprietary formats.

The only people who will buy this are apple fanatics or people who are computer illiterate and can only deal with something when it's beyond easy. AppleTV has lost almost all of it's sex appeal in the consumer media player market over the past year.

According to whom?

Last I heard iTunes was renting 50 thousand movies a day. Far more than any other service.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=88012

[DirtyBoots]

Originally Posted by solsun

According to whom?

Last I heard iTunes was renting 50 thousand movies a day. Far more than any other service.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=88012

Get back to me in 3 months when sony and microsoft are renting 100,000+ a day each and the amounts keep going up.

[pmoeser]

Originally Posted by DirtyBoots

I bought a PS3 mainly for Blu-Ray and games. I was thinking about getting an AppleTV, but then I realized that the PS3 plays DivX movies. You can put your movie files on a simple thumb drive pop it in, and start playing them straight from the thumb drive.

I have no use for the AppleTV now. It doesn't have enough features to make it worth it... and the fact that you have to hack it to get it to play DivX files is nothing but a pain and it's main flaw in my opinion. And yes I know you can convert the DivX movies to mp4, but that is a complete waste of time.

Unless it gets a DV-R and the ability to play files other than mp4, I would say AppleTV is dead in the water after these features from Sony and Microsoft.

AppleTV is not dead in the water because it can't do what you (and thousands of others) want it to do.

Like most things Apple, it does what it does very well and very simply.

Based on every review I have ever seen (just my own research) the interface is easier to use than any other living room media player.

If you have technical nouse, then there are heaps of other options. But for Apple to sell a product to make a profit, the AppleTV will sell them boxes which will be used to rent movies and buy TV shows easily and from the comfort of the couch with a 6 button remote.

My parents can do it!

[solsun]

Originally Posted by DirtyBoots

Get back to me in 3 months when sony and microsoft are renting 100,000+ a day each and the amounts keep going up.

Ummm, Okay... I'll iCal it..

So, I see that you registered here on AI today.... Who do you work for Sony or Microsoft?

[pt123]

Originally Posted by solsun

According to whom?

Last I heard iTunes was renting 50 thousand movies a day. Far more than any other service.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=88012

It is interesting how Apple will release numbers when they are impressive, like the 50,000 a day and the iPhone numbers but they won't say how the AppleTV is selling. Maybe if people know AppleTV was doing well, people might buy it with confidence the product won't be discontinued.

[mistergsf]

Originally Posted by DirtyBoots

Being able to play material from my iTunes on my TV is not worth $229 to me. And it's not going to be worth it to a lot of people considering how the economy is going. Apple has already scaled back it's push of AppleTV. The writing is on the wall. It might stick around, but the promise it had has died out because Apple was slow to add features and get rid of their love of proprietary formats.

The only people who will buy this are apple fanatics or people who are computer illiterate and can only deal with something when it's beyond easy. AppleTV has lost almost all of it's sex appeal in the consumer media player market over the past year.

How 'bout backing that up, buddy, huh? I have all of my DVDs ripped to my Mac and the Apple TV is the perfect device to serve all of that media to me on the big screen in my living room. I personally know others who do the same thing. Not worth it to you but worth it to me. And speaking as a 45 year-old gadget freak who's weathered many down-turns in the economy, that has never stopped me from purchasing anything that gives me pleasure.

[solsun]

Originally Posted by pt123

It is interesting how Apple will release numbers when they are impressive, like the 50,000 a day and the iPhone numbers but they won't say how the AppleTV is selling. Maybe if people know AppleTV was doing well, people might buy it with confidence the product won't be discontinued.

Analysts estimated that there were approximately 1,000,000 Apple TV sales in its first year before the Apple TV 2.0 update was released. Analysts have estimated that sales had quadrupled after the 2.0 release.. Whether those numbers have sustained is unknown..

[pmoeser]

Originally Posted by DirtyBoots

Get back to me in 3 months when sony and microsoft are renting 100,000+ a day each and the amounts keep going up.

There's an Australian movie called The Castle.

Your dreaming!

If they get to those figures, great! It means the studios will have accepted the new method of distributing media - which was pioneered by Apple

Apple will be happy to keep selling the quantity they are selling as it is obviously making money for them and the studios.

The days of microsoft and sony making interfaces as innovative, seamless and simple as apple never happened and never will.

They may make their version of it, but it won't be innovative.

[pmoeser]

Originally Posted by pt123

It is interesting how Apple will release numbers when they are impressive, like the 50,000 a day and the iPhone numbers but they won't say how the AppleTV is selling. Maybe if people know AppleTV was doing well, people might buy it with confidence the product won't be discontinued.

I would say that 50,000 rentals a day = a lot of AppleTVs sold.

How many movies would a person rent in a day. Let's say 5.

That's at least 10,000 units connecting every day

The mathematical probability of 10,000 households renting 5 movies every day is pretty slim.

If we had the facility to rent movies here (which we don't) I would realistically only be renting 1 movie per week.

So if someone with better statistical maths ability wants to have a go, I'm sure we could conjure up a more accurate figure of just how many of these boxes are out there.

[minderbinder]

Originally Posted by DirtyBoots

Get back to me in 3 months when sony and microsoft are renting 100,000+ a day each and the amounts keep going up.

How 'bout we get back to you in three months when they're not?

Xbox has had movie rentals including hi-def for months now, and people just haven't been using it much. Maybe that will change all of a sudden, but until that happens it's just speculation and wishful thinking.

Right now, Apple is top in video download sales and rentals. Period. When that changes, we'll talk.

It's cool that these other platforms are adding netflix support (why doesn't apple negotiate it as well?) but it will never be a major player until Netflix starts getting recent mainstream releases available for streaming. And that may not ever happen. In the meantime, it's decent for TV episodes, older movies, and indies, but it simply isn't a competitive service overall.

[iVlad]

Originally Posted by pmoeser

There's an Australian movie called The Castle.

Your dreaming!

If they get to those figures, great! It means the studios will have accepted the new method of distributing media - which was pioneered by Apple

Apple will be happy to keep selling the quantity they are selling as it is obviously making money for them and the studios.

The days of microsoft and sony making interfaces as innovative, seamless and simple as apple never happened and never will.

They may make their version of it, but it won't be innovative.

Agree!!!

[Daniel001]

Originally Posted by winterspan

I think for the AppleTV to compete well, they need to open it up, and make significant changes.

If Apple wants to stay in the television business in the long term, I think they’ll eventually have to start making complete television sets rather than simply set-top boxes. Before long, the kind of technology that AppleTV offers now will just be included in a TV when you buy it, rather than needing separate appliances. They could strike a deal with set manufacturers to include Apple technology in their products, but that would probably be about as successful as the iTunes Motorola ROKR. They already have ample experience in producing displays and audio equipment, so they’d be better off just doing the whole thing themselves; and, being Apple, it’d also be a very desirable product.

[iVlad]

I don't know! Apple tends to be very careful with Gaming at the moment. It's like they are testing the water before going in. They trying very hard at taking over the Video Market, but its quite hard. They not even marketing Apple TV. I haven't seen a single ad or banner or discount on Apple TV. Something is funny!

[minderbinder]

Originally Posted by pmoeser

I would say that 50,000 rentals a day = a lot of AppleTVs sold.

How many movies would a person rent in a day. Let's say 5.

That's at least 10,000 units connecting every day

The mathematical probability of 10,000 households renting 5 movies every day is pretty slim.

If we had the facility to rent movies here (which we don't) I would realistically only be renting 1 movie per week.

So if someone with better statistical maths ability wants to have a go, I'm sure we could conjure up a more accurate figure of just how many of these boxes are out there.

Don't forget that you can watch movies on a computer or iPod, so the number of rentals tells us nothing about the number of aTVs.

[DirtyBoots]

Originally Posted by solsun

Ummm, Okay... I'll iCal it..

So, I see that you registered here on AI today.... Who do you work for Sony or Microsoft?

Neither. I have owned many macs and used them probably 95% of time since 1992. I have purchased FCP since version 3 and also own Logic Studio and Aperture. I had another account here but haven't used it in about a year because I don't really care to talk about the iPhone 95% of the time. I had forgotten my username and password and the email account I used to register the account was deleted so I couldn't recover it.

If you want to say that everything that Apple does is perfect and ignore reality, then go for it.

[minderbinder]

Somewhat off topic, but there's a pretty cool new internet-only show up called Dr. Horrible's Singalong Blog. iTunes and www.drhorrible.com.

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/M...53399&s=143441

[solsun]

Originally Posted by Daniel001

If Apple wants to stay in the television business in the long term, I think they’ll eventually have to start making complete television sets rather than simply set-top boxes. Before long, the kind of technology that AppleTV offers now will just be included in a TV when you buy it, rather than needing separate appliances. They could strike a deal with set manufacturers to include Apple technology in their products, but that would probably be about as successful as the iTunes Motorola ROKR. They already have ample experience in producing displays and audio equipment, so they’d be better off just doing the whole thing themselves; and, being Apple, it’d also be a very desirable product.

Nah, don't agree...

Apple only makes a product if it feels it can better what the competition is doing.. The way they better their products is through software.. There is not much than can be done to improve upon the current high end sets by the likes of Sony, Samsung.. And there is not much likelihood of future sets including media centers built in..

Furthermore, Apple products generally expand upon their current ecosystem.. And again, there is not much more that televsion sets could do to add value to their current ecosystem..

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by solsun

Analysts estimated that there were approximately 1,000,000 Apple TV sales in its first year before the Apple TV 2.0 update was released. Analysts have estimated that sales had quadrupled after the 2.0 release.. Whether those numbers have sustained is unknown..

We don't know if that's true.

Also, Apple fans hate an analyst and his numbers if the numbers are low, love them if they're high.

We don't get the actual reports to see how they arrived at those numbers. The stories we see here on AI only really pull the highlights at best, the real reports often cost $250 and up.

If you remember the first iPhone launch, there as an analyst or maybe a few that were saying there would be 1 millon iPhones sold the first weekend, the actual number was a quarter that.

Originally Posted by pmoeser

I would say that 50,000 rentals a day = a lot of AppleTVs sold.

How many movies would a person rent in a day. Let's say 5.

That's at least 10,000 units connecting every day

The mathematical probability of 10,000 households renting 5 movies every day is pretty slim.

If we had the facility to rent movies here (which we don't) I would realistically only be renting 1 movie per week.

So if someone with better statistical maths ability wants to have a go, I'm sure we could conjure up a more accurate figure of just how many of these boxes are out there.

I think all that assumes AppleTV is required to do the renting. Only the HD movies require AppleTV. SD movies can be rented through the computer, iPod and iPhone.

[solsun]

Originally Posted by DirtyBoots

If you want to say that everything that Apple does is perfect and ignore reality, then go for it.

I don't praise everything Apple does..

If you'd like proof, Feel free to read my comments posted just today regarding the current MobileMe 'Push" disaster...

I praise when deserved, I criticize just as easily when I feel it's deserved.

The flexibility with in the Apple ecosystem and the Apple TV/ iTunes integration is far superior to anything the competition is offering.. It's not ignoring reality, it's fact.

[pt123]

Originally Posted by pmoeser

I would say that 50,000 rentals a day = a lot of AppleTVs sold.

How many movies would a person rent in a day. Let's say 5.

That's at least 10,000 units connecting every day

The mathematical probability of 10,000 households renting 5 movies every day is pretty slim.

If we had the facility to rent movies here (which we don't) I would realistically only be renting 1 movie per week.

So if someone with better statistical maths ability wants to have a go, I'm sure we could conjure up a more accurate figure of just how many of these boxes are out there.

Unfortunately, there is no telling how many rentals are through AppleTV and how many are through the computer/iPod. Apple doesn't have problem releasing how many movies they sold or how many iPods they sold or how many iPhones they sold. It really would nice to know how many have been sold instead of conjuring up numbers to see if this will be a successful product.

[godrifle]

Sony is surprising me. Now that PS3 is arguably *the* best Blu-ray player on the market, can now download HD content, and play games, surf, & stream audio/photos/video, play SACDs, act as a DVR, and soon interface with iphone/itouch, it looks like I'll be picking up one for the family (I have 3 kids). $500 aint too bad for all that! Too bad there's not an Apple offering that even comes close. Aside from gaming, these other features are low hanging fruit.

Originally Posted by iVlad

1. I don't see XBox nor PS3 to be a competitors to Apple TV. Maybe its just me or not, but I see Apple TV targeted towards Family Audience and XBOX and PS3 towards younger generation and teenagers.

I can't see Parents using their kids PS3 to rent movies, kid is not gonna like it because he/she will want to play, so Parents will just get Apple TV for their own use.



2. To fight back, Apple just have to make Apple TV compatible with Games and other Apps and make Apple Remote into a Wii like pointer with Accelerometer.

[Virgil-TB2]

At the very least these developments might push Apple to finally include an optical drive option for the Apple TV.

There never has been a rational argument for not including an optical drive at least as an option (and no, the fact that digital downloads are "the future" doesn't qualify as a rational reason). Think about it, you'll see it makes no sense.

There are many many more consumers that would buy something familiar like a new DVD player that happened to do some cool internet stuff, than there are consumers who will go out looking for a box just to do the cool Internet stuff. My Mum never figured out what a DVD player was until they had been common for a few years, many people are like that. Try even explaining what an Apple TV does to those folks. They'd love to buy the movies once they saw the thing working but the entry barrier to them adopting this kind of technology is extremely high.

This is kind of a blind spot for Apple in that they have little clue what the average middle-class non-techie USA-ian thinks like. You pretty much already have to be a cool Apple product user to even know what the hell Apple TV is right now. If it was sold instead as a game box that plays Blu-Ray discs, it would be much more saleable whether Apple believes that to be reasonable behaviour on the part of consumers or not.

It's also fairly clear, as someone has already noted above, that "eventually, eventually" Apple will pretty much have to get into making TV's to stay in this market. Perhaps they should just bite the bullet and buy Sony now (although it may be cheaper in a few years *wink*).

Like as not, the only reason for the languishing of the Apple TV is just prioritisation of Apple's tiny, itsy-bitsy, overworked staff and we will see a new Apple TV by Fall with an optical drive and a lot of other keen stuff.

[solsun]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

We don't know if that's true.

Agreed, that's why I said "analysts estimated."

[Cory Bauer]

Originally Posted by solsun

Not a chance.. As Apple has proven time and time again, It's not just features, it's the software. The iTunes integration alone offers something those other devices will never be able to offer.

Between xBox and PS3, about 30 million people now have the ability to rent or buy digital movies with a device they already own. I think most of those people would conclude that even if the Apple TV is a little more elegant to use, the $200 saved by just using the device they have would pay for a lot of movie rentals. This would be especially true for Netflix subscribers who own an xBox.

Regardless, I think the entire digital video rentals/purchases concept is still a novelty, due to the distribution limitations set by the studios, and will remain so if they don't become more open with content availability. Netflix's instant streaming feature is more or less limited to films no one wants to watch; I currently have 14 films in my Netflix queue, and the only one I can watch instantly is "Casablanca". Likewise, AppleTV's selection is largely made up of catalogue titles no one wants to see, while they continually pull popular titles after they've been available for a few months. For any of these digital rental/purchase services to work, they've got to build a library that has no bounds, similar to the iTunes music selection. Otherwise, people cannot and will not come to rely on their Apple TV/xBox/PS3 as the way to rent/buy movies.

Also, as HDTV prices continue to plummet and more people make the upgrade, people will want content that makes them appreciate their big fancy televisions. Streamed HD content that looks like an upconverted DVD ain't going to cut it.