RIM's iPhone rival rumored for October with Rhapsody tie-in

[AppleInsider]

Blackberry maker Research In Motion is reported to be readying Thunder, its answer to Apple's iPhone, for an October release alongside a partnership with Real's Rhapsody music service.

Also known as the Blackberry 9500, the new device will reportedly sport a 480x320 touch-screen, 3.2 megapixel camera, and a MicroSD memory expansion slot.

Photos of the device (below) recently published by BlackberrySync show four physical buttons -- Call, BlackBerry menu, Back, and End -- below the screen.

Other user interaction will take place on the phone's touch-screen through an interface that closely resembles the iPhone's embedded version of Mac OS X, complete with a five-icon dock anchored to the base of the home screen.

Also like the iPhone, the Thunder will feature a landscape mode for watching movies and other videos captured through its built in camera. However, it's unlikely to compete directly with the Apple handset from the onset.

A report published Tuesday by Fudzilla has the device launching in the US exclusively with Verizon on October 8th, standing as the CDMA carriers' best shot at retaining subscribers ultimately seeking an iPhone-like experience. There are rumors, however, that the device will also feature GSM technology for roaming in Europe and a possible partnership with Verizon partner Vodafone.

As part of its US launch plans with Verizon, RIM has also reportedly sealed a deal that will allow the Thunder to download music tracks from Real's Rhapsody music service over the air, without the need for a WiFi connection.

Blackberry Thunder | Source: Blackberry Sync


In the weeks leading up to the June 9th iPhone 3G launch, it was reported that Apple was seeking a similar arrangement by which iTunes customers could download tracks over AT&T's 3G network.

The negotiations with labels, which were said to be in the early stages, also included talk of ringback tones and expanding the inventory of iTunes tracks available for conversion into ringtones.

[VinitaBoy]

OK, RIM . . . where is the G**damned physical keyboard you said was so crucial for mobile communication? WHERE IS IT, you f*cktards? You said Apple would never survive without a whole basketful of your little chicklet keys on the iPhone, so which molehill came to which mountain here, huh?

God, but the hypocrisy is running wild in Canada this time of year.

[icfireball]

Originally Posted by VinitaBoy

OK, RIM . . . where is the G**damned physical keyboard you said was so crucial for mobile communication? WHERE IS IT, you f*cktards? You said Apple would never survive without a whole basketful of your little chicklet keys on the iPhone, so which molehill came to which mountain here, huh?

God, but the hypocrisy is running wild in Canada this time of year.

Got anger?

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by VinitaBoy

OK, RIM . . . where is the G**damned physical keyboard you said was so crucial for mobile communication? WHERE IS IT, you f*cktards? You said Apple would never survive without a whole basketful of your little chicklet keys on the iPhone, so which molehill came to which mountain here, huh?

God, but the hypocrisy is running wild in Canada this time of year.

This is one model out of how many? Surely RiM wants to compete with the the consumer-based iPhone, which is why they have added a music store to the Thunder, but that doesn't mean that they are foregoing keyboards in the rest of their handsets.

[VinitaBoy]

Actually, icfireball, yes . . . lots of it here. Having been at the forefront of innovation and pioneering new technologies for the past 25 years, I have very--VERY--little tolerance for those who will not acknowledge when a new approach or idea flies in their faces. Research in Motion has been more than a little "haughty" (to understate the situation) since Apple introduced the iPhone touch keyboard, denegrating it at every twist and turn of their press releases. NOBODY WILL WANT THAT, they screamed. HOW STUPID, they ejaculated. And yet here they are doing everything in their power to roll out an exact (or almost) copy of the iPhone's best features. What bloated egos Jim Balsillie and Mike Lazaridis have! Steve Ballmer must be so proud of them. Truth is, however, that hubris is always rewarded with a mighty fall. It couldn't happen to two "nicer" guys here.

[slapppy]

Wow. No wonder Jobs gets pissed at these guys. For years RIM does practically nothing. Along comes iPhone. Just about everyone copies it. For those who denies that its not copying, please give us a break. Basically this tell you that RIM is basically riding off the R&D work that Apple has done already. Pathetic.

[paxman]

Originally Posted by slapppy

Wow. No wonder Jobs gets pissed at these guys. For years RIM does practically nothing. Along comes iPhone. Just about everyone copies it. For those who denies that its not copying, please give us a break. Basically this tell you that RIM is basically riding off the R&D work that Apple has done already. Pathetic.

Ain't it the truth. But then we knew it would happen. RIM stands most to loose in the short term and to be quite honest I am impressed at how fast they have responded. I have no idea about comparisons. I suppose they don't have, and will struggle to re-create, the iPhone ecosystem, but these guys are fighting for their lives. They may still be strong, but unless they take up the fight they will go the way of Palm. The strategy is: Make something that looks and feels like the iPhone - maybe not in depth but on the surface at least. Now all the IT managers that already have a vested interest in RIM can tell their iPhone craving corporates that no, we can't do iPhone but this is just as good (they may actually say "even better"). If you aren't a diehard Apple person you may look at the Thunder and think yeah, this is pretty good. RIM has not only stemmed the tide but possibly increased their sales dramatically.

RIM should be paying Apple a development and marketing license.

[fishstick_kitty]

um...Rhapsody sucks. I hate all products by Real Player...they're intrusive, badly designed, and they cater more to advertisements than to end users.

[me2]

I am not a lawyer, but it seems to me that Apple will be ready to hit RIM with Patent infringement lawsuits. Honestly, how much more obvious can they be with their copy of the iphone?

[Maestro64]

Again these companies think by copying the share look and feel is enough, they are mission the bigger picture,

How many product will this, along with the Samsung, and LG products will plug and play with the thousands of product expanders that exist for the iPod/iPhone. The number is small, a few allow for aux audio in but they will not allow all the control or charging the iPod/iPhone products offer.

So these people will buy these go to the store and see all these other products that support the iPod/iPhone eco-system and realize the dumb mistake they made

[slicedbread]

Originally Posted by paxman

RIM should be paying Apple a development and marketing license.

Actually, Apple should sue RIM, and anyone else who markets an iPhone copy. Apple should aggressively protect all patents on functionality developed for the iPhone. They should use all legal means to prevent the kind of theft Microsoft got away with when MS first copied the Mac OS for Windows.

That said, I think Apple has wised up since the early days, and doesn't rely on patents or legal protection to keep their competitive edge. Now, they're focused on staying two steps ahead. So, even if RIM copies the iPhone, and Apple is unable to prevent blatant copying or protect its patents, Apple will still be ahead of RIM and the others because they are already at work on the next generation product. Kind of like the iPod-vs.-Zune battle. By the time MS copies iPod features and gets them into the Zune, Apple has already released new iPods with new features and MS is behind again.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by slapppy

Wow. No wonder Jobs gets pissed at these guys. For years RIM does practically nothing. Along comes iPhone. Just about everyone copies it. For those who denies that its not copying, please give us a break. Basically this tell you that RIM is basically riding off the R&D work that Apple has done already. Pathetic.

Since when is copying not a part of a competive business model? If they didn't copy it - they would be fools. How many cell phone makers previously copied Motorola's Razr? Apple needs more than one iPhone anyway.
Finally- as if Apple's never copied anything from anybody- give me a break.

[penchanted]

Interesting that none of the photos show the device in profile. I wonder if this thing is a brick.

[anantksundaram]

Originally Posted by teckstud

Since when is copying not a part of a competive business model? If they didn't copy it - they would be fools. How many cell phone makers previously copied Motorola's Razr? Apple needs more than one iPhone anyway.
Finally- as if Apple's never copied anything from anybody- give me a break.

'Copying' is very different from IP-theft. I have no idea which it is here, but I do have to say that it is an awfully similar-looking product with highly similar functionality.

Time will tell if Apple sues by alleging the latter, and what the outcome of such a suit will be. That said, Apple does not seem to have had much luck with such suits in the past.

[paxman]

Originally Posted by slicedbread

That said, I think Apple has wised up since the early days, and doesn't rely on patents or legal protection to keep their competitive edge. Now, they're focused on staying two steps ahead. So, even if RIM copies the iPhone, and Apple is unable to prevent blatant copying or protect its patents, Apple will still be ahead of RIM and the others because they are already at work on the next generation product. Kind of like the iPod-vs.-Zune battle. By the time MS copies iPod features and gets them into the Zune, Apple has already released new iPods with new features and MS is behind again.

I agree, Apple is a much wiser Apple than years ago. BUT... the phone market is totally different from the music player market. Apple doesn't really have the advantage here. Sure, they have a cool phone, but RIM and Nokia et al will protect their ground to the end. As would Apple. Phone designs change and I don't think Apple can prevent anybody from using a flat rectangular shape with a touch screen. The depth of the OS, mixed with the user experience, and the eco system will be the differentiating factors (for now). It will be interesting to see what the opposition does. But the general look and style is up for grabs, much like the flip phone was, or the 'slider phone', or the camera phone. etc.
More than anything Apple really have to get the mobileMe experience to work beautifully. I think that is huge. The smart phone is breaking out from the corporate world and in this area Apple has the potential to leap ahead.

[msantti]

Where is the physical keyboard RIM???

WHERE IS IT?????????????

BUSINESS PEOPLE REQUIRE A KEYBOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh RIM.............................

[slapppy]

Originally Posted by teckstud

Since when is copying not a part of a competive business model? If they didn't copy it - they would be fools. How many cell phone makers previously copied Motorola's Razr? Apple needs more than one iPhone anyway.
Finally- as if Apple's never copied anything from anybody- give me a break.

Not at the same level as RIM and MS are doing. Big difference there. Arguing that Apple does not innovate and produces products with similar MO as these guys is just plain silly.

[iVlad]

Everyone copies each other, it just happened to be that Apple is on the top of the pyramid.

I am sure Apple have made a space capsule that travels to Alien worlds. That's how they get their ideas because they are like no one else.

=)
I am very happy that the whole Mobile Market is following iPhone. People will just realize even more that iPhone is the original piece of art.

[Chris_CA]

Originally Posted by slicedbread

Kind of like the iPod-vs.-Zune battle.

Battle? There was a battle? When did this happen?
Didn't Apple sell more iPods yesterday than MS has sold Zunes since day one?

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by slicedbread

Actually, Apple should sue RIM, and anyone else who markets an iPhone copy. Apple should aggressively protect all patents on functionality developed for the iPhone. They should use all legal means to prevent the kind of theft Microsoft got away with when MS first copied the Mac OS for Windows.

There's only so much a design can be protected. There's quite a few changes here and there, to me it looks like only someone that doesn't pay the slightest bit of attention would confuse the two products.

The way I heard Woz say it, MS did have license from Apple for their Windows products.

Originally Posted by Maestro64

Again these companies think by copying the share look and feel is enough, they are mission the bigger picture,

How many product will this, along with the Samsung, and LG products will plug and play with the thousands of product expanders that exist for the iPod/iPhone. The number is small, a few allow for aux audio in but they will not allow all the control or charging the iPod/iPhone products offer.

So these people will buy these go to the store and see all these other products that support the iPod/iPhone eco-system and realize the dumb mistake they made

The problem is that Apple tends to obsolete iPod accessories within two or three years anyway. I would not get an iPod / iPhone adapter for a car as the compatible iPods would be obsolete even midway through the car's life cycle.

Originally Posted by msantti

Where is the physical keyboard RIM???

WHERE IS IT?????????????

BUSINESS PEOPLE REQUIRE A KEYBOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh RIM.............................

Is it a product marketed for business use? Unlike Apple, other companies do have different products for business and consumer markets. RIM is rightfully chasing the consumer market here, how well it works is up to the market. You also have to keep in mind that even Apple says things which get contradicted later when they release a product. If Steve Jobs disses an idea, some people take it as a clue and suggest maybe it's in the works somewhere at Apple.

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by slapppy

Not at the same level as RIM and MS are doing. Big difference there. Arguing that Apple does not innovate and produces products with similar MO as these guys is just plain silly.

I'm not saying that Apple does not innovate because that would be ridiculous.
But what exactly is RIM copying or as someone else states- "stealing"?
The ability to play music on a phone- HA!
A phone with no buttons- Ha again!
The can't touch the iPhone's software and certainly won't steal mobileMe- so please elaborate.
BTW since when did Apple invent the phone?
I suppose Alexander Graham Bell stole that from them too-

[teckstud]

Originally Posted by JeffDM

Is it a product marketed for business use? Unlike Apple, other companies do have different products for business and consumer markets. RIM is rightfully chasing the consumer market here, how well it works is up to the market. You also have to keep in mind that even Apple says things which get contradicted later when they release a product.

RIM appears to be just adding another phone to its line unlike Apple which only has one. The would be more of an entertainment (toy) like the iPhone rather than a business tool like a Blackberry.

[EyeNsteinNo]

Copy the iPnone?

I think Al Gore invented the IDEA of a touch screen back in '84 when the Mac 128k was first introduced. He didn't know what the mouse was for but did try to move the icons around with his fingers!

iPhone 2009 clone sales equation.

RIM=SqRoot of 16,000,000

e.g. 80% market share for _____

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by VinitaBoy

Actually, icfireball, yes . . . lots of it here. Having been at the forefront of innovation and pioneering new technologies for the past 25 years, I have very--VERY--little tolerance for those who will not acknowledge when a new approach or idea flies in their faces.

Still, I agree with ic, I think you sound overly angry.

iPhone is not the first handheld device to go without a physical keyboard. It's not even the first phone to go without a physical keyboard.

Can you elaborate on what you said you have been innovating in the last quarter century?

[Xian Zhu Xuande]

Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy

Notice you don't see the I'm a Mac I'm a PC commercials anymore.
Apple has their own Vista with Me.com and it is not a thing of beauty.

Except me.com is very young and Apple will clean it up in short order.

Vista is not a small blunder. And it will take considerably more effort to clean up.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by VinitaBoy

Actually, icfireball, yes . . . lots of it here. Having been at the forefront of innovation and pioneering new technologies for the past 25 years, I have very--VERY--little tolerance for those who will not acknowledge when a new approach or idea flies in their faces. Research in Motion has been more than a little "haughty" (to understate the situation) since Apple introduced the iPhone touch keyboard, denegrating it at every twist and turn of their press releases. NOBODY WILL WANT THAT, they screamed. HOW STUPID, they ejaculated. And yet here they are doing everything in their power to roll out an exact (or almost) copy of the iPhone's best features. What bloated egos Jim Balsillie and Mike Lazaridis have! Steve Ballmer must be so proud of them. Truth is, however, that hubris is always rewarded with a mighty fall. It couldn't happen to two "nicer" guys here.

Gee, that sounds just like jobs!

It's exactly what he does when he wants to hold back sales of products Apple doesn't make. And then what does he do? He comes out with competing products.

How often did he say that watching video on a portable music player was stupid? Several times.

What do you expect a company to do?

Tell the fanboy in yourself to calm down.

[slapppy]

Originally Posted by teckstud

I'm not saying that Apple does not innovate because that would be ridiculous.
But what exactly is RIM copying or as someone else states- "stealing"?
The ability to play music on a phone- HA!
A phone with no buttons- Ha again!
The can't touch the iPhone's software and certainly won't steal mobileMe- so please elaborate.
BTW since when did Apple invent the phone?
I suppose Alexander Graham Bell stole that from them too-

If you need someone to explain to you the difference and what constitutes IP violations, then your being lazy and do not have the capacity to differentiate the facts. Do some research yourself and figure it out.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by me2

I am not a lawyer, but it seems to me that Apple will be ready to hit RIM with Patent infringement lawsuits. Honestly, how much more obvious can they be with their copy of the iphone?

You may not be a lawyer, but you are apparently an electronics expert.

So tell us which patents RIM is violating, and how.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy

I own and love my iPhone and think that the competition is great.

The fact that every other phone maker out there has slammed the no keyboard approach and has eventually put out a version with no keyboard is nothing but a compliment to Apple. Their negative marketing SHOULD be expected to protect their own sales.

Competition will only make the iPhone a better product and maybe we'll even get copy & paste, turn by turn navigation with GPS and voice calling all of which RIM and many other phone manufacturers have had for years built in without having to buy a application from iTunes to make it happen.

Time to kick it up a notch Apple the competition is catching up!

I agree. When companies like RIM, with a very good reputation, begin to compete closely like this, it does make things better all around.

Hopefully, this will persuade Apple to not come out with new hardware and software that is so buggy. Apple's reputation for quality products is being hit hard lately.

[cameronj]

Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy

Me.com has been about as succesful as Vista. It hasn't worked consistently since day 1 of the face lift and has been one blunder after another.

Notice you don't see the I'm a Mac I'm a PC commercials anymore.
Apple has their own Vista with Me.com and it is not a thing of beauty.

You mean within 14 days Apple pulled all their advertising? Amazing!

Ludicrous too, of course

[melgross]

Originally Posted by slicedbread

Actually, Apple should sue RIM, and anyone else who markets an iPhone copy. Apple should aggressively protect all patents on functionality developed for the iPhone. They should use all legal means to prevent the kind of theft Microsoft got away with when MS first copied the Mac OS for Windows.

That said, I think Apple has wised up since the early days, and doesn't rely on patents or legal protection to keep their competitive edge. Now, they're focused on staying two steps ahead. So, even if RIM copies the iPhone, and Apple is unable to prevent blatant copying or protect its patents, Apple will still be ahead of RIM and the others because they are already at work on the next generation product. Kind of like the iPod-vs.-Zune battle. By the time MS copies iPod features and gets them into the Zune, Apple has already released new iPods with new features and MS is behind again.

You're kidding, right?

Exactly what would Apple sue for? Which patents are being violated?

Do you know any of this, or is it just misplaced anger that there is competition?

You do realize that Apple's basic iPhone/iTouch icon screen is taken from Palm?

Apple has been patenting more of it's "inventions" as time goes on. Even here, in this bastion of Appledom, there have been complaints that Apple is patenting too much, and suing too much.

[bigmike]

Originally Posted by iVlad

I am sure Apple have made a space capsule that travels to Alien worlds. That's how they get their ideas because they are like no one else.

Well it was brought to Steve Jobs in a round-about way. Just like George Lucas and Spielberg (you think they made that stuff up?! ).

[melgross]

Originally Posted by msantti

Where is the physical keyboard RIM???

WHERE IS IT?????????????

BUSINESS PEOPLE REQUIRE A KEYBOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh RIM.............................

As you know very well, all of RIMs phones have keyboards, except for this one, which is quite obviously being marketed to consumers, the same people who are buying the majority of Apple's phones.

But, it will still have better business connectivity than the iPhone has now.

[8CoreWhore]

Damn RIM job Dingleberry blowtards!

[melgross]

Originally Posted by slapppy

If you need someone to explain to you the difference and what constitutes IP violations, then your being lazy and do not have the capacity to differentiate the facts. Do some research yourself and figure it out.

Telling him that he has to do the research that you have to do, is worthless.

When you make the accusation, it's your responsibility to back it up.

If you can show where the violations are, then we would listen. But just making unsubstantiated statements proves nothing.

Why don't you tell us which patents are being violated, and why?

[melgross]

Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy

It's been over a month and it's still not working. I wouldn't call that even in the relm of a succesful launch. We don't know how long it will take them to fix it.

Not to mention the fact that it was advertised as Push service and there has been no date on when that will be fixed in the big Apple Cloud.

The iPhone is a thing of beauty but I'm glad for the competition so Apple will get off its behind and add the basic features that have been considered a must have on phones for years. Give me a break. No voice dialing and I live in California where you must drive hands free.

My 5 year old Motorola V551 had it and RIM has been doing it for years along with turn by turn directions.

Perhaps you need to be reminded that the launch was on the 11th of THIS month. Today is the 29th. How is it over a month?

Apple has said that the "push" servers will be online in September.

[Chris_CA]

Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy

the competition is catching up!

Yeah, but isn't that always the case?

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy

Notice you don't see the I'm a Mac I'm a PC commercials anymore.
Apple has their own Vista with Me.com and it is not a thing of beauty.

The latest Get A Mac ad was released on May 13th. That isn't last shown, that is released. There are still plenty of Get A Mac ads being aired, but Apple is focusing on ads for the iPhone 3G right now, as one would expect. Expect new Get A Mac ads, especially in 2 months when the new MB and MBps should be released and then more for the holiday shopping season.

Plus, I really don't see what the Get A Mac ads have to do with MM.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy

OK so it's only been a complete and utter blunder for 18 days. Vista says it has a safe operating sytems today. Do you buy it. I won't believe it until I see it.

Apple's 2.0 software is full of bugs, poor battery life for original and 3g phones. Basic everday tools that even the throw away phones have are still missing and Me.com is just icing on the cake of it's aniversary date.

Yet this room blindly follows and shows pure hate when anyone has anything negative to say about Apple.

COMPETITION IS GOOD FOR EVERY END CONSUMER. I'm sold on the iPhone today but when a better phone comes out I'll buy it in a second. I'm loyal to technology not to Apple.

I just like seeing the facts correct.

I already said that Apple made mistakes and needs the competition.

[JeffDM]

Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy

It's been over a month and it's still not working. I wouldn't call that even in the relm of a succesful launch. We don't know how long it will take them to fix it.

Originally Posted by WidnowsGuy

OK so it's only been a complete and utter blunder for 18 days.

I don't think you understand, hyperbole hurts the argument of those that use it because it makes you look unreasonable and I think it suggests that you don't think your argument stands up well on its own.

Yes, MobileMe is clearly hurting and is not the product to use right now. There's no need to blow it out of proportion, the facts speak for themselves quite clearly.