iPhone 3G rocks Japanese smartphone market

[AppleInsider]

Mobile providers in Japan are crediting the launch of Apple's iPhone 3G with dramatically shifting large numbers of subscribers between providers. The impact of the new phone is also answering critics who insisted the iPhone would find only limited interest in Japan.

Big in Japan

According to the report "iPhone Affects KDDI's Net Subscription Growth," by Japanese tech business journal Tech-On, SoftBank Mobile, Apple's exclusive provider of the iPhone 3G in Japan, led other providers in the country in new mobile phone subscriptions, grabbing up 215,400, more than half of the 391,500 new activations in Japan during the month of July. "We believe our large net growth was an iPhone effect," SoftBank representatives said.

Rivals service provider KDDI agreed, noting that new cancelations related to customers' porting their numbers to another provider surpassed new incoming transfers for the first time ever in July. It too credited the iPhone 3G launch with the unusual shift. "We are accepting the fact, considering that our handsets weren't attractive enough," KDDI's PR group said.

Japan's Cultural Barriers

Many originally predicted that Apple's phone would flop in Japan, a market where phone hardware and mobile networks have long offered greater sophistication than other markets, and particularly when compared to the US. Apple's original iPhone could not be used in Japan because there is no 2G GSM service in the country; Japanese providers pioneered the deployment of advanced 3G mobile networks a decade ago, skipping the second generation entirely.

Other critics pointed out that the iPhone lacked a variety of culturally significant elements unique to the Japanese mobile market, including the ability to scan the QC barcodes that appear everywhere, inclusion of Sony's RFID-based "FeliCA" swipe chip for purchases (used by vending machines), and the capacity to enter Japanese characters, including "emoji," a popular new set of scores of pictographs (below) many people in the country consider essential in mobile messaging.*



Differences in the Japanese market previously frustrated Apple's ability to increase Mac sales there, as many Japanese, particularly the youth demographic, now use smartphones in place of full sized computers. Microsoft has faced similar problems in trying to sell its Xbox game consoles in the country, where tastes in gaming software simply differ.

"Breakthrough" Internet device

The cultural barriers originally expected to hold back interest in the iPhone 3G have not been enough to overcome Apple's strong brand and the fascination with the iPhone's slick and pioneering interface. “Just the interface itself is enough reason for me to buy the iPhone," said Andrew Shuttleworth in a Macworld story exploring the iPhone's potential in the Japanese market.

Shuttleworth, described as "a long time Windows Mobile user," added, "the best thing about it is that I can get a full web surfing experience — something I’ve wanted for a long time." While Japanese phones have led the technology curve in a number of areas, Shuttleworth said the "Internet on Japanese mobile phones have been following the i-mode system ever since. It has hardly improved even when smart phones arrived in 2005, but I think the iPhone can change that.”

The existing feature omissions on the iPhone appear to have little impact on its uptake among users. An AP article covering the iPhone 3G launch cited early adopter Kentaro Tohyama as noting that he would simply continue to also use his existing phone for emoji-laced messaging with friends, explaining, "I don't want my friends to think I'm this uncool, cold-hearted person."

From the makers of iPod

Another factor that has helped launch the iPhone 3G in Japan is that Apple's iPod is already wildly popular there. In addition to brand recognition, the Japanese market also seems to be attracted to Apple's simple, easy to use interfaces, which is not a strong point in other existing devices being sold in the Japanese market.

Sony's entrenched leadership in the MP3 market with its Walkman was eviscerated by Apple's far simpler to use iPod in Japan and worldwide, while the*Sony Connect online store also couldn't even manage get off the ground even as iTunes grew exponentially. Ease of use and simplicity were major reasons why Apple cleaned up the music player market.

Similarly, while Japanese phones are revered for their exceptional hardware styling and features, they also sport complex menus that are difficult to navigate and services that are often impractical to use, leaving many of their pioneering features ignored. As one reader noted, "most phones in Japan felt like you're running Windows 98."*

Another example is the TV playing "1Seg" feature that Japanese phone makers have been rushing to market. It is largely just impractical. One user described the feature as "a notorious battery gobbling monster. Fourty-five minutes of watching TV on the cell phone would kill the battery." Signal reception of the UHF system is also terrible when traveling faster than a brisk walk.

Apple has often received criticism for taking a unique approach to engineering that only tends to include features that are practical and usable rather than following the industry trend to layer on features thick to see which stick. On the iPhone, Apple has even erected limitations on third party developers, efforts that are intended to keep its products simple and reliable rather than full featured but complex and problematic.*

iPhone-induced globalization

Apple's exclusive partnership with SoftBank in Japan has also made it clear that significant numbers of users are willing to migrate to another provider to get the iPhone, a fact also reported by AT&T in the US, and O2 in the UK. That not only brings increased attention to the iPhone, but also enables Apple to negotiate favorable service agreements, market promotion deals, and custom support for differentiating features on the iPhone, including Visual Voicemail.

Conversely, Apple's launch successes in Japan and Europe should also help accelerate the adoption of technologies demanded in those markets to the US, which has long been a backwater of stagnant mobile technology. The iPhone 3G has already bolstered AT&T's support for developing its UMTS network here in the US.

Apple's universal product strategy, which seeks to sell the same products globally rather than develop custom devices tailored to each market, has also brought international keyboard support (including Chinese handwritten input) to American users. It will likely also result in the import of Japan's QC barcodes and could possibly result in a wireless payment system similar to Sony's FeliCA. The iPhone's universal Apps Store should also facilitate in an influx of international software, which in turn will help Apple in its push to enter enterprise markets worldwide.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]

[melgross]

It gets tiring hearing from a very few people who tell us that they "know" how badly the iPhone is doing in their countries.

I doubt they know much of anything when it comes to phones. It's also possible that they say this to try to make it SEEM as though the product is doing poorly, when it obviously isn't. What their problem is, I don't know.

This isn't the first report that shows the iPhone is doing well in Japan.

[jfanning]

Originally Posted by melgross

It gets tiring hearing from a very few people who tell us that they "know" how badly the iPhone is doing in their countries.

I doubt they know much of anything when it comes to phones. It's also possible that they say this to try to make it SEEM as though the product is doing poorly, when it obviously isn't. What their problem ism I don't know.

This isn't the first report that shows the iPhone is doing well in Japan.

Yeah I know, I get sick of the people who all claim the all other manufactures are about to close down as Apple has sold 10 million phones in an market of 1.15 billion

[melgross]

Originally Posted by jfanning

Yeah I know, I get sick of the people who all claim the all other manufactures are about to close down as Apple has sold 10 million phones in an market of 1.15 billion

That's the opposite absurdity.

Neither is true.

[jfanning]

Originally Posted by melgross

That's the opposite absurdity.

Neither is true.

Well the current mobile phone sales figures are around 1.15 billion per year.
Apple fans are constantly dooming all other mobile manufactures.

The only one left is Apple has sold 10 million phones, so is this the incorrect one?

[fuyutsuki]

Is the iPhone the biggest leap forward in phones this century?

Now that we've sorted that out, no one's talking about driving competitors out of business. Just giving the whole industry a much needed kick up the backside and getting progress back in order.


Great article as always Prince Dan.

The AppStore may well put an end to the trouble with those mysterious smiley symbols. Indeed, the only limit on the iPhone is developers and Apple's imagination. Unlike the now obsolete generation of hardware it's up against.

Looking forward to seeing what Japan's handset makers do next. They're the closest thing Apple have to a direct rival besides RIM.

[monstrosity]

Originally Posted by melgross

That's the opposite absurdity.

Neither is true.

There sure will be casualties though, the only hope many handset manufacturers have of surviving is to hope Android pulls through (which im confident it will) and ditch whatever their current OS of choice is.

[Olternaut]

Bloodbath.

[jfanning]

Originally Posted by monstrosity

There sure will be casualties though, the only hope many handset manufacturers have of surviving is to hope Android pulls through (which im confident it will) and ditch whatever their current OS of choice is.

Saying many is a little extreme, Motorola maybe. The other big names manufactures will be fine.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by jfanning

Well the current mobile phone sales figures are around 1.15 billion per year.
Apple fans are constantly dooming all other mobile manufactures.

The only one left is Apple has sold 10 million phones, so is this the incorrect one?

Apple isn't competing with 1.1 billion phones sales a year. They are just beginning to compete with the 100 million smartphone sales a year.

As you can see from this article, and I'm assuming that you haven't read any other article by any other writer in any other publication anywhere, Apple is doing quite well in Japan, which a couple of people have tried to tell us wasn't true. But it is.

When you look to see how well a new product it doing, you,look at its sales growth. Not the total number of sales relative to established products. It takes a few years to move up in the ranks.

I remember when I bought my Samsung i300 Palmphone years ago, that Samsung was but a small player in the phone business, with only about a 5% marketshare. No one thought that Samsung understood the business well enough to move up. But they were wrong, and now Samsung is one of the largest cell manufacturers in the world.

Apple is competing only in the smartphone market. Right now, that;s about 10% of the market overall, but is the most profitable part. That part is expected to move to 30% in a few years, mostly because Apple has made people aware of it more than before.

This is like the digital camera market. Only 7.5% of all digital cameras are D-SLR's. But almost all the profit is centered around those D-SLR's. The point and shoot market is losing money quickly, except for a few products.

Which part of that market would a company rather have, a good part of the 7.5% that is highly profitable, or a large share of the 92.5% that is losing money?

Apple will have a large share of that profitable market, while most likely ignoring the basic phone market.

Will Apple take the market over? Who knows? No one thought MS would take the OS and Office markets over either in the mid '80's.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by monstrosity

There sure will be casualties though, the only hope many handset manufacturers have of surviving is to hope Android pulls through (which im confident it will) and ditch whatever their current OS of choice is.

Oh, there will be causualties. There always are. The market will consolidate as it matures, and only the strongest will survive.

But it's also looking dimmer for Android. I'm not so sure it will make it.

[GQB]

Originally Posted by jfanning

Well the current mobile phone sales figures are around 1.15 billion per year.
Apple fans are constantly dooming all other mobile manufactures.

The only one left is Apple has sold 10 million phones, so is this the incorrect one?

Apples and oranges... Apple doesn't sell 'phones'.

We've had to listen for a year about how Japanese users would never settle for the iPhone because of the 'critical features' it lacked.
Those nay-sayers always seemed to think that the Japanese are incapable of valuing usability of base features on a smartphone.

[danielchow]

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

The existing feature omissions on the iPhone appear to have little impact on its uptake among users. An AP article covering the iPhone 3G launch cited early adopter Kentaro Tohyama as noting that he would simply continue to also use his existing phone for emoji-laced messaging with friends, explaining, "I don't want my friends to think I'm this uncool, cold-hearted person."

Ah this is an interesting comment. Japanese users understand the limitations of communicating via messaging, and they would not rely on it without using emoji to compliment the message. For example, Everyone is talking about you comes across differently than Everyone is talking about you.

I think emoji is used often because messaging in Japanese or Chinese with most mobile phone is quite involved, so these predefined emoticons help convey a message conveniently without entering too much more characters. However, the easier input interface on the iPhone may change this. Although, it would still be nice to have it, emoji. I think it would be nice if the mail app would also interpret both emoji and emoticons, because a picture is worth a thousand words

[Constable Odo]

My goodness. How can the iPhone possibly be successful in Japan without having emoji and a hole for dangling trinkets? Suppose the Japanese handset user really wants the same things that are offered for Americans, perish the thought, such as a full internet browsing experience and a very simple user interface. Can the Japanese live without FeliCa and 1-Seg. I'm not sure about Apple getting around the lack of FeliCa, but 1-Seg could be replaced with simple Youtube availability. There are more than enough videos to keep the Japanese occupied. An efficient manga reading app was made available for the iPhone which might also keep the Japanese pleased.

I'm very curious to see whether or not the average Japanese cellphone user can be tempted by the iPhone. I do think that some of the fashionable, long-nailed Japanese women might have to take a pass on the touch-screen input.

[Ireland]

Whatever it is that group of emoticons they use Apple should add them to the iPhone software for over there (when they choose that language an emoticon button could appear on page 2 of that keyboard, and when pressed it could provide access to all of them). But that would be too simple a solution for Apple, wouldn't it? Get on it Apple, it's time to de-wax those ears again.

[jfanning]

Originally Posted by melgross

Apple isn't competing with 1.1 billion phones sales a year. They are just beginning to compete with the 100 million smartphone sales a year.

No, they are competing against all cellphone sales.

Originally Posted by melgross

As you can see from this article, and I'm assuming that you haven't read any other article by any other writer in any other publication anywhere, Apple is doing quite well in Japan, which a couple of people have tried to tell us wasn't true. But it is.

No, why would I. I don't live in Japan, and I have no interest in the Japanese phone market. I was just replying to your phone regarding a subjective article. What does "doing quite well in Japan" mean? .05% market share, 1% market share, what exactly?

Originally Posted by melgross

I remember when I bought my Samsung i300 Palmphone years ago, that Samsung was but a small player in the phone business, with only about a 5% marketshare. No one thought that Samsung understood the business well enough to move up. But they were wrong, and now Samsung is one of the largest cell manufacturers in the world.

Yes, at the end of 2007 they were around 14.5% market share, compared to Nokia's 39%

Originally Posted by melgross

Apple is competing only in the smartphone market. Right now, that;s about 10% of the market overall, but is the most profitable part. That part is expected to move to 30% in a few years, mostly because Apple has made people aware of it more than before.

As I have said, they are competing in all mobile phone sales, the majority of people do not go out and purchase a cheap phone, and a smart phone, they will purchase one phone.

Also, the other manufactures are in a better position to compete on price as well, something Apple doesn't like doing.

[sapporobaby]

Originally Posted by melgross

This is like the digital camera market. Only 7.5% of all digital cameras are D-SLR's. But almost all the profit is centered around those D-SLR's. The point and shoot market is losing money quickly, except for a few products.

Just bought myself a Nikon D300. Love it.

[sapporobaby]

Originally Posted by melgross

It gets tiring hearing from a very few people who tell us that they "know" how badly the iPhone is doing in their countries.

I think the "knowing" part is more visual rather than information based. Here in Finland, where I am currently posted, I see hardly any iPhones, but rather than trust my eyes, I talk to my friends at Sonera. They say that the iPhone did okay, but not as well as expected. This is further borne out by the fact that you can walk into any Sonera shop, or other outlet and get an iPhone of choice, black, white, 16 gig, 8 gig. No waiting. This would imply that there is plenty of stock on hand. Several of my co-workers that ordered iPhones are still getting calls to see if they want to come down and pick one up. In this instance it would be easy to assume that the iPhone was not as big a hit as it was else where. Maybe Sonera will release some sales figures to back this up. For the most part, Finns do not like the locked in part of the iPhone contracts. It is a matter of the subscription terms rather than price.

I doubt they know much of anything when it comes to phones. It's also possible that they say this to try to make it SEEM as though the product is doing poorly, when it obviously isn't. What their problem is, I don't know.

Which people exactly. I do not think there are any iPhone haters here. The debates seem balanced actually. Some see things one way, while others see them another way.

This isn't the first report that shows the iPhone is doing well in Japan.

I bet you a Pepsi, you will soon see a report that the iPhone is doing poorly in Japan.

[samab]

Until they actually release the Japanese iphone sales number --- all this talk is pure PR BS.

[8CoreWhore]

Is there a reason emoji can't be put on the iPhone? I must've missed something. I mean, how hard can it be to put smiley's on the thing? Is it a MS thing? I doubt someone owns emoticons.

[sapporobaby]

Originally Posted by samab

Until they actually release the Japanese iphone sales number --- all this talk is pure PR BS.

Good point. No, great point.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by melgross

That's the opposite absurdity.

Neither is true.

Didn't you hear? AI is hosting this year's superbowl of hyperbole

Originally Posted by jfanning

No, they are competing against all cellphone sales.

All advanced cell phones are added to the total sales of cellphones but Apple is competing directly against other smartphones. Just like other smartphones that are being geared toward multimedia are competing against the iPhone. You don't see the Samsung Instinct commercials comparing itself favourably to a free, throwaway phone, do you?

The only sense that your comment hold true is that the iPhone has made smartphones more popular so that it's not just geel or business device. This trend is affecting the sales of all smartphones positively, not just the iPhone.

What does "doing quite well in Japan" mean? .05% market share, 1% market share, what exactly?

Partially, it's similar to what the Phone getting 1% of the entire cellphone market mean for the industry. It's getting others to follow suit in making the industry better as a whole.

Also, the other manufactures are in a better position to compete on price as well, something Apple doesn't like doing.

Compete on price or compete on profit? If you mean price then you must be comparing the iPhone to other non-smartphones with little on-board storage. The results have shown the iPhone to be quite competitive on price. But before it came out paying $800-$1000 for the smartphones was not unheard of a hefty SSD capacity included.

To the chagrin on many, Apple is saving money on R&D and production by having essentially one phone whose only difference is an extra 8GB SSD or a white case backing instead of a black one. As much as people hate the lack of options it does afford them the ability to stay competitive and still get a good profit. Of course, the other side of that coin of that is to make make many different variations that suit a larger populace to gain profits by having more sales.

Originally Posted by sapporobaby

I think the "knowing" part is more visual rather than information based. Here in Finland, where I am currently posted, I see hardly any iPhones, but rather than trust my eyes, I talk to my friends at Sonera. They say that the iPhone did okay, but not as well as expected. This is further borne out by the fact that you can walk into any Sonera shop, or other outlet and get an iPhone of choice, black, white, 16 gig, 8 gig. No waiting. This would imply that there is plenty of stock on hand. Several of my co-workers that ordered iPhones are still getting calls to see if they want to come down and pick one up. In this instance it would be easy to assume that the iPhone was not as big a hit as it was else where. Maybe Sonera will release some sales figures to back this up. For the most part, Finns do not like the locked in part of the iPhone contracts. It is a matter of the subscription terms rather than price.

Yours is the only credible story that the iPhone isn't doing well in a country. I wonder if we'll ever get a per-country or carrier breakdown of sales or activations.

[umijin]

Although I don't doubt AU is suffering from the iPhone impact (and I think AU would have been a better fit for the iPhone), the iPhone has not sold out in Japan. I keep seeing articles saying this, but it isn't true.

My local SoftBank dealer still has them in stock, and I would expect that other small location dealers also have them still.

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by 8CoreWhore

Is there a reason emoji can't be put on the iPhone? I must've missed something. I mean, how hard can it be to put smiley's on the thing? Is it a MS thing? I doubt someone owns emoticons.

It's hard to say if Apple doesn't want to soil the iphone with emoticons (even though iChat has them) or wants to stay away from any potential litigation as they've become a huge target since their rise this decade.

Wikipedia states that there are patents for emoticons and even links to one that specifically is about using them on cell phones. I hate patent trolls!

• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotico...roperty_rights

[sapporobaby]

Originally Posted by solipsism

Didn't you hear? AI is hosting this year's superbowl of hyperbole

My vote for best quote of this thread. Hell maybe even the entire forum.

Yours is the only credible story that the iPhone isn't doing well in a country. I wonder if we'll ever get a per-country or carrier breakdown of sales or activations.

I am just reporting what my friends inside of Sonera are saying. I do know for a fact though that Sonera is calling and asking if people want to come down and get a phone. Sort of funny how this has turned out. I think I posted back on the 11th of June that Sonera had a raffle to offer 200 lucky people the chance to have the iPhone first in Finland. Only 1000 people were allowed to enter the contest with 200 names being drawn at midnight. I texted messaged 4 or 5 times, from 4 or 5 different numbers to enter. At 23:50 I received replies on all of my phones that I had won. Meaning that less than 200 people had entered the contest. I am curious to see how Sonera will handle this as the Finns simply will not pay full price for a locked phone.

[jfanning]

Originally Posted by solipsism

All advanced cell phones are added to the total sales of cellphones but Apple is competing directly against other smartphones. Just like other smartphones that are being geared toward multimedia are competing against the iPhone. You don't see the Samsung Instinct commercials comparing itself favourably to a free, throwaway phone, do you?

No, but if someone is buying a new phone, they will decide which features they need, a simple phone, mid range, or a smartphone, and then buy one of those. Meaning each category of device is competing against the other.

Originally Posted by solipsism

Compete on price or compete on profit? If you mean price then you must be comparing the iPhone to other non-smartphones with little on-board storage. The results have shown the iPhone to be quite competitive on price. But before it came out paying $800-$1000 for the smartphones was not unheard of a hefty SSD capacity included.

Are you referring to US$? But even still, I have not paid anywhere near that much money for a smart phone for several years

[solipsism]

Originally Posted by jfanning

No, but if someone is buying a new phone, they will decide which features they need, a simple phone, mid range, or a smartphone, and then buy one of those. Meaning each category of device is competing against the other.

I see what you are saying but I disagree with the rationale. One is a comparison of a category and the other is a specific product within a category. The smartphone category is directly competing with mid-range and simple cellphone categories, but the iPhone product is directly competing against other smartphones.

[dasein]

[QUOTE=jfanning;1292208]No, they are competing against all cellphone sales.

Aren't you comparing apples with oranges then? It would be like not separating all vehicle sales from trucks in your sales stats.

[jfanning]

Originally Posted by dasein

Aren't you comparing apples with oranges then? It would be like not separating all vehicle sales from trucks in your sales stats.

no, that would be like not separating BMW M3 sales, from Ford Focus sales.

[jonnyboy]

as a 5-year resident of japan i really feel the mobile market over here is over-rated. when i first arrived in 2003 i was quite impressed with the technology on offer; full-colour screens and "interesting" features were quite engaging but in the years since the likes of nokia and sony-ericson have left the closed japanese market in the dust. sure, phones still have a lot of features but most are superfluous and hidden in clunky text menus systems. add to that the MASSIVE ipod-created cool appeal of apple and it's no surprise that many consumers might choose to forgo 1-seg and emoji mail for a clean and friendly interface.

IR beaming is pretty damn handy on the dating scene but then not everyone is on the dating scene!

[TenoBell]

Originally Posted by jfanning

No, but if someone is buying a new phone, they will decide which features they need, a simple phone, mid range, or a smartphone, and then buy one of those. Meaning each category of device is competing against the other.

I disagree. If someone is looking for a full QWERTY keyboard and internet they are not looking at low end phones at all. If someone wants a free phone and low monthly bill they are not really looking at a smartphone at all. Midrange phones somewhat bridge the gap in features and cost.

Are you referring to US$? But even still, I have not paid anywhere near that much money for a smart phone for several years

That's because you are only buying subsidized phones with contract. You pay full price for an unsubsidized phone and no contract.

[nagromme]

"You uncool, cold-hearted person! Why are you speaking to me with your voice? I demand a text message, with a pre-defined smiling circle!"

The bar-code thing sounds cool, though, if used widely. I bet if Apple added that the the software, the practice would suddenly catch on outside Japan. I especially like the idea of scanning a business card to load a contact.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by jfanning

No, they are competing against all cellphone sales.

You don't read anything, do you? They are not competing against all cellphone sales. This has been stated over and again.

If you don't understand that basic fact, then there's no point in your bothering to be in a discussion about it.

No, why would I. I don't live in Japan, and I have no interest in the Japanese phone market. I was just replying to your phone regarding a subjective article. What does "doing quite well in Japan" mean? .05% market share, 1% market share, what exactly?

The articles have been written, and published here. You obviously do read things here, or you wouldn't be on this thread.

Re-read the article. It's very clear as to what they mean.

Yes, at the end of 2007 they were around 14.5% market share, compared to Nokia's 39%

Yes, a tripling of marketshare.

As I have said, they are competing in all mobile phone sales, the majority of people do not go out and purchase a cheap phone, and a smart phone, they will purchase one phone.

Also, the other manufactures are in a better position to compete on price as well, something Apple doesn't like doing.

Say it until you're blue in the face, but you are still wrong.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by sapporobaby

Just bought myself a Nikon D300. Love it.

Good camera. I'm a Canon person myself, but both are very good.

[nefrocatracho]

Originally Posted by melgross

Oh, there will be causualties. There always are. The market will consolidate as it matures, and only the strongest will survive.

But it's also looking dimmer for Android. I'm not so sure it will make it.

Might depend on what the goals are for Android. I foresee little market overlap between Android and the iPhone or other smartphones. Rather I think Android is gunning for Symbian OS to replace it as the dominant system on non-smart phones worldwide. This will be a significant market for years to come. And let's face it, if Android is half as good as its demos, it will be 10x as good as any Symbian-based phone I've ever used.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by sapporobaby

I think the "knowing" part is more visual rather than information based. Here in Finland, where I am currently posted, I see hardly any iPhones, but rather than trust my eyes, I talk to my friends at Sonera. They say that the iPhone did okay, but not as well as expected. This is further borne out by the fact that you can walk into any Sonera shop, or other outlet and get an iPhone of choice, black, white, 16 gig, 8 gig. No waiting. This would imply that there is plenty of stock on hand. Several of my co-workers that ordered iPhones are still getting calls to see if they want to come down and pick one up. In this instance it would be easy to assume that the iPhone was not as big a hit as it was else where. Maybe Sonera will release some sales figures to back this up. For the most part, Finns do not like the locked in part of the iPhone contracts. It is a matter of the subscription terms rather than price.



Which people exactly. I do not think there are any iPhone haters here. The debates seem balanced actually. Some see things one way, while others see them another way.

Oh, there are some iPhone haters here. Possibly they are also Apple haters. I see those around, as I'm sure we all do.

They jump at anything Apple, as the MS haters jump at anything MS.

I bet you a Pepsi, you will soon see a report that the iPhone is doing poorly in Japan.

If we could figure out how to implement that, it would be fine with me.

[sapporobaby]

Originally Posted by melgross

Oh, there are some iPhone haters here. Possibly they are also Apple haters. I see those around, as I'm sure we all do.

They jump at anything Apple, as the MS haters jump at anything MS.



If we could figure out how to implement that, it would be fine with me.

I may be back in the US for some meetings and training. New Jersey isn't that far from NY.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by nefrocatracho

Might depend on what the goals are for Android. I foresee little market overlap between Android and the iPhone or other smartphones. Rather I think Android is gunning for Symbian OS to replace it as the dominant system on non-smart phones worldwide. This will be a significant market for years to come. And let's face it, if Android is half as good as its demos, it will be 10x as good as any Symbian-based phone I've ever used.

It's having a lot of problems now though. Developers are fuming about the way Google is keeping the updates secret from most of them. Updates are long in coming, even for the very few developers who are getting them. The developmental environment is criticized as being inadequate. Developers are moving to the iPhone. Developers are also criticizing the fact that it allows too many physical differences between phones, making development much more difficult.

The one phone that is supposed to be coming out with Android has been delayed for the second time, etc.

Lots of problems.

[melgross]

Originally Posted by sapporobaby

I may be back in the US for some meetings and training. New Jersey isn't that far from NY.

Well, let me know.

[jfanning]

Originally Posted by TenoBell

I disagree. If someone is looking for a full QWERTY keyboard and internet they are not looking at low end phones at all. If someone wants a free phone and low monthly bill they are not really looking at a smartphone at all. Midrange phones somewhat bridge the gap in features and cost.

So you are saying that the person wanting a fully qwerty keyboard phone will buy one of them, and a cheap phone as well? Yeah that makes sense, you must have too much money if you can purchase two devices when one will do.

Most people will purchase one, or the other device, not both, so that makes them in competition with each other.

Originally Posted by TenoBell

That's because you are only buying subsidized phones with contract. You pay full price for an unsubsidized phone and no contract.

I have never purchased a subsidised phone